Online breeders?

I am looking for a reputable online breeder to do business with. I am looking for a breeding size male and female Mojave. I will be ordering a rack system on the 1st. What is a good price to pay for the pair? I have seen ranges but want to know what is fair to pay.

Also is there a website for people to trade for breeding and getting new genetic lines?

MorphMarket.com is your friend. :gj:

always do research on the breeder, specifically check the Fauna Classified Board of Inquiry which is invaluable to this hobby.

however, before you bite off more than you can chew, i say you should spend time focusing on the snakes you currently have. you've still got a lot to learn about this hobby and keeping in general.

Check out morphmarket

https://www.morphmarket.com/us/searc...x=&min_genes=0

Looks like proven female are going for 300 and up. Males from 100 up.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

MorphMarket.com is your friend. :gj:

always do research on the breeder, specifically check the Fauna Classified Board of Inquiry which is invaluable to this hobby.

however, before you bite off more than you can chew, i say you should spend time focusing on the snakes you currently have. you've still got a lot to learn about this hobby and keeping in general.

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Tttaylorrr is right. Don't rush into anything.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

MorphMarket.com is your friend. :gj:

always do research on the breeder, specifically check the Fauna Classified Board of Inquiry which is invaluable to this hobby.

however, before you bite off more than you can chew, i say you should spend time focusing on the snakes you currently have. you've still got a lot to learn about this hobby and keeping in general.

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I was going to a rack system regardless and think will help with my husbandry issues some. At best I am about a year or so from taking on breeding. Just trying to get an education.

Also not mentioned, Kingsnake.com, Faunaclassifieds, fb groups, and local and hobbyist breeders and there's even a for sale section here. Just remember that you have options and be smart with your money.

MD said what I was thinking, and hit every point.

Kingsnake.com still has deals but MorphMarket kind of left it in the dust with better web design.

Recently I've found what I was looking for on Facebook groups and MorphMarket.

Also, don't look into any type of "breeding loans" etc... Usually these don't work out well unless you really know the person and get everything written up in a contract first.

You may want to consider purchasing juvie animals as well... Getting adult breeders will decrease the time you have to wait to breed but there are trade-offs... They may be getting rid of a "proven breeder" because it isn't performing as well, has health problems, etc. They could just be selling an animal when they have a more expensive one to replace it, but you never know.

Also, starting with a juvie, you will spend less upfront, this will be made up with the cost of feeding it, but often you can have a wider selection of animals to choose from and you can possibly pay more $$ and get a higher quality baby for the same price you'd pay for a lower-quality adult of the same morph.

I would agree with the others that you will want to do lots of research before hand.. Make sure that you want to work with mojave and have plans for the future. Mojave is a simple co-dom gene and is not worth much as a single gene animal. Yes, producing a BEL will sell for more, but there will be normals and mojaves produced in the same clutch, so you need to be prepared to feed and care for them all until they can be sold.

Morphmarket, faunaclassifieds, and kingsnake are good places to go. Some fo the FB ball python groups also allow sales, so you can post there too. Just do a BOI search on any potential seller you are thinking about dealing with. There are a lot of scammers out there.

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Originally Posted by artgecko

Also, don't look into any type of "breeding loans" etc... Usually these don't work out well unless you really know the person and get everything written up in a contract first.

You may want to consider purchasing juvie animals as well... Getting adult breeders will decrease the time you have to wait to breed but there are trade-offs... They may be getting rid of a "proven breeder" because it isn't performing as well, has health problems, etc. They could just be selling an animal when they have a more expensive one to replace it, but you never know.

Also, starting with a juvie, you will spend less upfront, this will be made up with the cost of feeding it, but often you can have a wider selection of animals to choose from and you can possibly pay more $$ and get a higher quality baby for the same price you'd pay for a lower-quality adult of the same morph.

I would agree with the others that you will want to do lots of research before hand.. Make sure that you want to work with mojave and have plans for the future. Mojave is a simple co-dom gene and is not worth much as a single gene animal. Yes, producing a BEL will sell for more, but there will be normals and mojaves produced in the same clutch, so you need to be prepared to feed and care for them all until they can be sold.

Morphmarket, faunaclassifieds, and kingsnake are good places to go. Some fo the FB ball python groups also allow sales, so you can post there too. Just do a BOI search on any potential seller you are thinking about dealing with. There are a lot of scammers out there.

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When it comes to breeding and you get normal or less desired morphs, what do most people do with the ones that don't sell. I know if you breed every year this can get quite crazy. I would feel justly so obligated to keep them and care for them, but there has to be people looking for normal as well?

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

I would feel justly so obligated to keep them and care for them, but there has to be people looking for normal as well?

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you'd be surprised. the market for a normal is entirely too saturated with not enough interest. most people encourage breeding pairs that will not produce normals for this reason: they don't sell.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

you'd be surprised. the market for a normal is entirely too saturated with not enough interest. most people encourage breeding pairs that will not produce normals for this reason: they don't sell.

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what would you suggest if I want to breed for BEL's but not have a high chance of a normal? Throw a Banana gene in there?

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

what would you suggest if I want to breed for BEL's but not have a high chance of a normal? Throw a Banana gene in there?

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i can't give you a suggestion because there's a million things i could suggest! you need to do some research on morphs, pairings, and figure out a direction you want to go with, because these animals and all their babies will be with you for potentially their entire lives; you need to like what you produce.

go to WorldofBallPythons.com and start browsing and typing stuff in, or play with the Genetic Wizard. this is how i learned about morphs and what morphs i want to work with. you have a lot to learn and a long way to go, and that website is STUFFED with info.

You got the Cart in front of the Horse my friend. There is so much to breeding that the morphs you like are the least of your worries. Not for nothing the market is so flooded with Ball Pythons many are culled. Enjoy those pets you just got before you wake up and wonder what the heck you were thinking in 6 months [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216]

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

i can't give you a suggestion because there's a million things i could suggest! you need to do some research on morphs, pairings, and figure out a direction you want to go with, because these animals and all their babies will be with you for potentially their entire lives; you need to like what you produce.

go to WorldofBallPythons.com and start browsing and typing stuff in, or play with the Genetic Wizard. this is how i learned about morphs and what morphs i want to work with. you have a lot to learn and a long way to go, and that website is STUFFED with info.

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Thanks. Now time to make like a sponge.

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

Thanks. Now time to make like a sponge.

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good luck!!! :gj:

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

You got the Cart in front of the Horse my friend. There is so much to breeding that the morphs you like are the least of your worries. Not for nothing the market is so flooded with Ball Pythons many are culled. Enjoy those pets you just got before you wake up and wonder what the heck you were thinking in 6 months [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216]

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I have a ultimate plan. Just takes time and research to do well. There is a local home town pet store that is wanting a local breeder. Right now they order from online breeders and I could save them money and make some myself at the same time enjoy the process of learning and growing as a herp owner. We are talking year/s away from any real ground here. Might change my mind before I get that far for sure.

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

Thanks. Now time to make like a sponge.

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...and do dishes?

:confusd:

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

Thanks. Now time to make like a sponge.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

...and do dishes?

:confusd:

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reproduce asexually.

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

Thanks. Now time to make like a sponge.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

...and do dishes?

:confusd:

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

reproduce asexually.

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is that where baby spoons and lil saucers come from?

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

Thanks. Now time to make like a sponge.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

...and do dishes?

:confusd:

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

reproduce asexually.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

is that where baby spoons and lil saucers come from?

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well, when the mommy Dish runs away with her friend Spoon...

If you want a BEL, why not just buy one?

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Originally Posted by MD_Pythons

If you want a BEL, why not just buy one?

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I wanted to specialize in breeding them. If I just wanted 1 for a pet would just buy one.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

well, when the mommy Dish runs away with her friend Spoon...

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:8::8::8:

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

When it comes to breeding and you get normal or less desired morphs, what do most people do with the ones that don't sell. I know if you breed every year this can get quite crazy. I would feel justly so obligated to keep them and care for them, but there has to be people looking for normal as well?

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I agree with the other posters. You want to try to pair animals that won't produce normals, at least as much as possible. You can achieve this by pairing a super animal (i.e. super pastel or a BEL, etc.) to another non-super, that way, you will always end up with animals that are at least one morph and easier to sell. You can also do this by breeding 2 recessive visual animals (i.e. 2 pieds, ghosts, clowns, etc.) as that will always produce the recessive morph.

People who produce a lot of snakes a year, say, people that do this for a living, can sell their normals and cheaper animals at wholesale prices to large pet store chains, etc. Some people can work out a similar deal with a local (non-chain) pet store as well, but this is not very common. Many people sell their unwanted animals to flippers / re-sellers to then sell at reptile shows, etc. But again, for way less than the animals' normal "market value".

Normals are sold at reptile shows for as little as $25 (or even less) so consider that at that price, you aren't really even making any money considering the cost of food and housing. This is why it is best to go very slowly and be prepared to keep an entire clutch until they sell (unless you have the means to make a deal with a local store, etc.).

I'm not trying to be a downer, just trying to be realistic about things.
I have just now begun my first breeding project after ~5 years of keeping and I intend to only breed 1-2 clutches my first year with plans to sell at a local reptile show and online. I will have to wait for my breeders to mature, and purchase all the equipment, so I won't be making any money off this venture to say the least lol.

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Originally Posted by artgecko

I agree with the other posters. You want to try to pair animals that won't produce normals, at least as much as possible. You can achieve this by pairing a super animal (i.e. super pastel or a BEL, etc.) to another non-super, that way, you will always end up with animals that are at least one morph and easier to sell. You can also do this by breeding 2 recessive visual animals (i.e. 2 pieds, ghosts, clowns, etc.) as that will always produce the recessive morph.

People who produce a lot of snakes a year, say, people that do this for a living, can sell their normals and cheaper animals at wholesale prices to large pet store chains, etc. Some people can work out a similar deal with a local (non-chain) pet store as well, but this is not very common. Many people sell their unwanted animals to flippers / re-sellers to then sell at reptile shows, etc. But again, for way less than the animals' normal "market value".

Normals are sold at reptile shows for as little as $25 (or even less) so consider that at that price, you aren't really even making any money considering the cost of food and housing. This is why it is best to go very slowly and be prepared to keep an entire clutch until they sell (unless you have the means to make a deal with a local store, etc.).

I'm not trying to be a downer, just trying to be realistic about things.
I have just now begun my first breeding project after ~5 years of keeping and I intend to only breed 1-2 clutches my first year with plans to sell at a local reptile show and online. I will have to wait for my breeders to mature, and purchase all the equipment, so I won't be making any money off this venture to say the least lol.

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I agree with you completely. I know I'm asking a lot of questions in a short period of time but I'm not in a hurry.

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

I agree with you completely. I know I'm asking a lot of questions in a short period of time but I'm not in a hurry.

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No problem... If you don't ask, you can't learn.

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Originally Posted by artgecko

No problem... If you don't ask, you can't learn.

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And I have a lot to learn

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I, like so many others, have considered trying my hand at breeding. But, I'm literally YEARS away from ready. I've got 5+, probably 6 years of experience keeping snakes and am NOWHERE near ready.

There is a LOT more that goes into breeding than just acquiring a few snakes, pairing them and ending up with adorable baby snakes.

Some things to consider:
1) it seems you have a local store lined up, but...what if that falls through? Then are you prepared to keep the babies? Do you have a backup plan?

2) are you prepared to make difficult decisions regarding when to cull an animal? Are you qualified to make these decisions? What defects will prevent an animal from being able to live a healthy life? Will you be able to physically go through with the act of culling an animal?

3) do you have the time, financial resources, knowledge, physical space, etc...to properly care for the breeding animals as well as any and all babies that are produced?

I'm positive I'm not listing everything you need to consider, just giving you a few thoughts...

I'm not trying to discourage you, just trying to help you see the big picture. As I said, I've got some years under my belt and had to ask myself these questions. For now, and the foreseeable future, the answer is NO. So for now, I'm making the responsible decision to not venture into breeding any time soon.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

I, like so many others, have considered trying my hand at breeding. But, I'm literally YEARS away from ready. I've got 5+, probably 6 years of experience keeping snakes and am NOWHERE near ready.

There is a LOT more that goes into breeding than just acquiring a few snakes, pairing them and ending up with adorable baby snakes.

Some things to consider:
1) it seems you have a local store lined up, but...what if that falls through? Then are you prepared to keep the babies? Do you have a backup plan?

2) are you prepared to make difficult decisions regarding when to cull an animal? Are you qualified to make these decisions? What defects will prevent an animal from being able to live a healthy life? Will you be able to physically go through with the act of culling an animal?

3) do you have the time, financial resources, knowledge, physical space, etc...to properly care for the breeding animals as well as any and all babies that are produced?

I'm positive I'm not listing everything you need to consider, just giving you a few thoughts...

I'm not trying to discourage you, just trying to help you see the big picture. As I said, I've got some years under my belt and had to ask myself these questions. For now, and the foreseeable future, the answer is NO. So for now, I'm making the responsible decision to not venture into breeding any time soon.

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I am in the education phase. When things are learned will determine whether or not I choose to pursue this or not. I'm fully aware that any Offspring my snakes produce I will be completely responsible for if or when I find them a new home

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

I am in the education phase. When things are learned will determine whether or not I choose to pursue this or not. I'm fully aware that any Offspring my snakes produce I will be completely responsible for if or when I find them a new home

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I hear ya. And like I said, I'm not trying to discourage you. I just have the best interest of the animals in mind. I feel the BP market is already over saturated, especially with normals and even many single gene animals.
Keep studying, keep learning, and whether you decide breeding is for you or not, I wish you and your snakes the best.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

I hear ya. And like I said, I'm not trying to discourage you. I just have the best interest of the animals in mind. I feel the BP market is already over saturated, especially with normals and even many single gene animals.
Keep studying, keep learning, and whether you decide breeding is for you or not, I wish you and your snakes the best.

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When I am thinking about taking on a new hobby or pet, I research everything. Just like buying a car. I know how much the maintaince and tires cost, what recalls past and present. Read countless reviews before making a purchase. I have 3 dogs and I researched everything about the breeds. I choose them carefully by general traits and health issues. I also rescue dogs and rehome them at my own expense. One of my rescues is now a seizure therapy dog for a kid with autism. The dog went from being abused to having his perfect home of someone that not only loves him but needs him. I had to learn the requirements for his training and read different approaches till I found ones that worked. Now they will be together for life. The more knowledge you have the better pet owner you will be. I am a biologist at heart and learning about breeding snakes is teaching me a lot about genetics and snakes in general. I am enjoying the adventure. Just like people in BDSM, you have to have safe practices for everyone to have a good experience. I am an advocate for the animals firsts and foremost.

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

When I am thinking about taking on a new hobby or pet, I research everything. Just like buying a car. I know how much the maintaince and tires cost, what recalls past and present. Read countless reviews before making a purchase. I have 3 dogs and I researched everything about the breeds. I choose them carefully by general traits and health issues. I also rescue dogs and rehome them at my own expense. One of my rescues is now a seizure therapy dog for a kid with autism. The dog went from being abused to having his perfect home of someone that not only loves him but needs him. I had to learn the requirements for his training and read different approaches till I found ones that worked. Now they will be together for life. The more knowledge you have the better pet owner you will be. I am a biologist at heart and learning about breeding snakes is teaching me a lot about genetics and snakes in general. I am enjoying the adventure. Just like people in BDSM, you have to have safe practices for everyone to have a good experience. I am an advocate for the animals firsts and foremost.

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That's awesome!!!

Good on you for researching thoroughly, your animals thank You!

And working with rescue dogs is hella awesome and something to be proud of. Rehoming a rescue dog as a therapy animal is truly admirable, congrats on your great work.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

That's awesome!!!

Good on you for researching thoroughly, your animals thank You!

And working with rescue dogs is hella awesome and something to be proud of. Rehoming a rescue dog as a therapy animal is truly admirable, congrats on your great work.

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So far I have had only one fail training and she had a gun shot wound. Got her healthy and potty trained again and her shots. She had to go to a home with no other animals or children. Her new owners love her very much and she is adjusting to their life well. She will always be scared of people and other dogs. My trio will not let anyone be shy so she adjusted to them but they all know I am in charge and no aggression at all. My pack is special in their training. She took a while to warm up but every time a loud noise or another dog barked at her she would try to run and hide peeing all over herself. She has been in her new home for 6 months now and doing well. One of my pups is an artic wolf. She is not like a dog at all. Is fun seeing the differences and learning so much. She is adjusting well to life in my house though and is very friendly. If I can just get her potty trained now... LOL. She is 3 months old so a way to go yet.

Skyrivers- I would suggest checking out both morph market and world of ball pythons. MM has a ton of animals for sale and you can use that information to find out what you like and also to see what is more or less popular in the marketplace. WOBP has a list of morphs that is searchable and also a morph calculator to see what pairings could produce percentage wise.

Another good resource is the blog by Justin Kobylka and his videos.

There used to be a good blog resource on breeding by major league reptiles, but I think the old owner took it down when he sold the business (if I'm remembering it correctly).

I would also suggest some of the breeder videos hosted by the reptile channel on youtube (herpers tv).. I can't remember the guy's name..I think it is Dav Kaufman, but I could be wrong. He interviews different breeders, both small and large-scale.

Olympus reptiles is also a good channel on youtube to watch.. He is a small-scale breeder and does do some information videos on care and breeding.

I think in the end, it all comes down to whether or not you like working with the animals enough and can afford the care and housing /feeding expense. BPs don't have as huge of a clutch size as some others (say a boa with ~20+ babies per clutch) but caring for 7-12 new snakes can be a huge increase in time and expenses. Other than that, it just comes down to whether they hold your interest or not.

I would honestly look at all the morphs / projects available and pick something you really love. Consider working with morphs in the BEL complex that have the potential to produce BELs but also other combos you find interesting.

After that, I'd just plan on saving up and waiting for the right animal.. don't settle for something just due to price. Finding pics of adult versions of the morphs you are interested in is worth it too.. Some morphs change a lot and don't look nearly as good as adults, so it pays to know that going in.

When I got into reptiles about 5 years ago I liked certain morphs but thought they were out of my price range at the time. Because of that, I settled for animals that were less expensive (say, $300 range instead of $500 animals). Now, years later, I am still wanting those original animals I was drawn to and have had to invest again in those morphs. I still enjoy my less expensive animals, but they no longer fit into my future breeding plans and are "just pets". There is nothing wrong with that, but it does mean that I am now caring for 3 additional animals when I could have had both pets and potential breeders combined.

If you really love BELs, I'd seriously consider saving up and investing in a BEL male, then pair that male to BEL complex females of your choice. This will give you a range of animals to produce while you can still enjoy a BEL as a pet and breeder. Or, you could get a male like this one who has a BEL complex gene (lesser), along with 2 other genes that would give you a variety of offspring. (Note... I have purchased from that seller before and was happy with my purchase, but I'm not affiliated with them, etc).

When I got my first animals, there were some morphs that I had not even looked into that I later found and liked more than what I had purchased, so again, research def. pays in the long run.

Please feel free to continue to post your questions. The community is full of excellent resources. I would also like to encourage you to use the search function here on the site (the advanced search). You may be able to find a load of old thread with pics and info about BEL complex animals, etc. I found a lot of info that way when looking into my current project (hypos / ghosts).

Just a thought here, if you're getting a single gene, do that, but one that is also 100% het for a recessive you like.
Then get a really nice visual male to pair it/them with, then you'll be getting 2 nice things out of that female. So if you get normals, then they will at least be het for something, and might sell easier.


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Originally Posted by Roux

Just a thought here, if you're getting a single gene, do that, but one that is also 100% het for a recessive you like.
Then get a really nice visual male to pair it/them with, then you'll be getting 2 nice things out of that female. So if you get normals, then they will at least be het for something, and might sell easier.


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I think I agree with you. Was originally thinking of BELs only but I have researched both Blue Eyed Lucy (Moj Moj) and Mystic Potion and love the combo. They are slightly different and only 2 possible outcomes when breeding.

https://www.morphmarket.com/us/c/rep...-pythons/78986


https://www.morphmarket.com/us/c/rep...pythons/110896

Another benefit is that no normal will be produced this way. Later I might add the pinstripe in the mix for jigsaw I will keep playing with the combos and see what I can come up with but this is all in theory as of now.

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Originally Posted by artgecko

Skyrivers-
When I got into reptiles about 5 years ago I liked certain morphs but thought they were out of my price range at the time. Because of that, I settled for animals that were less expensive (say, $300 range instead of $500 animals). Now, years later, I am still wanting those original animals I was drawn to and have had to invest again in those morphs. I still enjoy my less expensive animals, but they no longer fit into my future breeding plans and are "just pets". There is nothing wrong with that, but it does mean that I am now caring for 3 additional animals when I could have had both pets and potential breeders combined.
(hypos / ghosts).

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I think this is really good advice here.

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

I am looking for a reputable online breeder to do business with. I am looking for a breeding size male and female Mojave. I will be ordering a rack system on the 1st. What is a good price to pay for the pair? I have seen ranges but want to know what is fair to pay.

Also is there a website for people to trade for breeding and getting new genetic lines?

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Morphmarket definitley, I have had multiple purchases from that site and from the breeders i specifically purchased from all are healthy and doing well!