Ganja got new digs

I finally got my 2x2x2 cube from pvccages.com in and got it up and running. I didn't take build pictures but it was super easy to put together and get up and running. I got a perch extension and on perch water dish holder from Specialty Enclosure Designs and put those in. I decided against live plants for now until I can figure out exactly what I want (leaning toward neon pothos) and if I want it.

She took to the cage right away and ran around the whole thing a few times before settling in on the back perch. Can't wait to see how she really likes and and still hoping she is going to be a healthy and happy snake.

https://i.imgur.com/XioSWTY.jpg


She looks so tiny!

https://i.imgur.com/18fPGRC.jpg

Nice! Now it needs 10,000 more plants, so you can play "where's Waldo" every day.

sweet setup! those decorative ganja leaves really make the whole thing pop!

Looks good but those perches are freakin HUGE!! You should be giving him perches as thick as him at the most or better yet, a little thinner. I was planning on using those bamboo perches but everyone on the GTP boards told me what i just said, you want perches as thick as the snake or even slightly smaller. And i would for sure go for live plants. They give the benefit of cleaning and purifying the air especially in a low airflow cage plus they keep humidity up too.

The top perch is much smaller. I also have the perch extension that is even smaller. I have some vines coming in that will work as perches as well. I also know that she hates thin perches. I offered her several sizes when in quarantine and she refused to use the thin ones until I offered her a thicker pvc.

Gotta use what your snake will use ;)

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Originally Posted by SDA

The top perch is much smaller. I also have the perch extension that is even smaller. I have some vines coming in that will work as perches as well. I also know that she hates thin perches. I offered her several sizes when in quarantine and she refused to use the thin ones until I offered her a thicker pvc.

Gotta use what your snake will use ;)

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I like the idea of giving the snake a choice of perches. Thin ones, thick ones, let them decide. Kind of like hides for ball pythons. I like to give them a few different sizes and shapes and see which they prefer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SDA

I finally got my 2x2x2 cube from pvccages.com in and got it up and running. I didn't take build pictures but it was super easy to put together and get up and running. I got a perch extension and on perch water dish holder from Specialty Enclosure Designs and put those in. I decided against live plants for now until I can figure out exactly what I want (leaning toward neon pothos) and if I want it.

She took to the cage right away and ran around the whole thing a few times before settling in on the back perch. Can't wait to see how she really likes and and still hoping she is going to be a healthy and happy snake.

https://i.imgur.com/XioSWTY.jpg


She looks so tiny!

https://i.imgur.com/18fPGRC.jpg

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Yep itty bitty! But so beautiful I’m jelly I’m trying to coax my hubby on the thought lol


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SDA

The top perch is much smaller. I also have the perch extension that is even smaller. I have some vines coming in that will work as perches as well. I also know that she hates thin perches. I offered her several sizes when in quarantine and she refused to use the thin ones until I offered her a thicker pvc.

Gotta use what your snake will use ;)

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I hear ya. I gave Pat 3/8 inch and 1/4 inch perches when i had him in a 25 qt tub. He picked the 1/4 inch ones. One thing i was told on the GTP boards was that giving too big of perches can cause skin folds to develop on the snake. They basically have to pancake on the perch to be able to grip it vs just wrapping around it to hold on. So all that pancaking on it can cause skin folds to develop over years. I dont know if it's BS or not but more than 1 person mentioned it. It's kind of like I've heard people talk about keeping boas on newspaper or other 'slick' surfaces can cause them to lose muscle tone over the years and 'pancake' which in a boa, the snake becomes more flat and wide vs tall and square. Again, not sure about that but i have heard it from a few different people.

And i think i figured out why Pat isnt sleeping on his perches and only plays on them at night. They tend to spin. I ended up zip tying a center brace between 2 of the perches so now they are nice and secure. We will see come tomorrow if Pat sleeps on a perch. I know tonight he will like them as he is all over the place even more than Caesar lol.

Oh and did you get the no spin, magnetic perch holders from Specialty Enclosures?

Oh and another thing lol. Your little guy is starting his color change. I'm jealous lol. Cant wait to see Pat start changing colors but i have heard in Biaks, it can take 1-2 years for them to complete it vs other localities changing colors pretty fast.

the perches are from pvccages and they come with these upside down "T" holders glued to the wall. It makes it a breeze to lift the perches in and out and keep them from spinning.

Thankfully she is coiling like normal on the top perch so no pancaking at all.

As far as the color change goes, yeah she is changing pretty fast and I can't wait to see her fully green.

She pooped and urated a ton tonight and had a little edema on her cloaca but it went down on its own and so the prolapse she had seems to be healing itself just fine. On her way to recovery!

I had a similar issue with the perch I had in her quarantine tub. She would spin herself right off. Ended up drilling and putting a loose ziptie in to keep it from moving. They hate movement lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SDA

I finally got my 2x2x2 cube from pvccages.com in and got it up and running. I didn't take build pictures but it was super easy to put together and get up and running. I got a perch extension and on perch water dish holder from Specialty Enclosure Designs and put those in. I decided against live plants for now until I can figure out exactly what I want (leaning toward neon pothos) and if I want it.

She took to the cage right away and ran around the whole thing a few times before settling in on the back perch. Can't wait to see how she really likes and and still hoping she is going to be a healthy and happy snake.

https://i.imgur.com/XioSWTY.jpg


She looks so tiny!

https://i.imgur.com/18fPGRC.jpg

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All I can say is Wow.. What a awesome display. I love it!!

That's a nice setup you got running there, I need to get mine into PVCs soon. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but I thought if the perches were too big that could cause spinal damage? Or is that only for hatchings?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MD_Pythons

That's a nice setup you got running there, I need to get mine into PVCs soon. Now, correct me if I'm wrong but I thought if the perches were too big that could cause spinal damage? Or is that only for hatchings?

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I was told it can cause skin folds as they age but never heard about spinal damage but it wouldnt surprise me actually. Maybe them slipping off the big perches because thy cant grasp it and falling from a height could hurt them. I was told by everyone that with the correct size perch, the back coils should be able to touch the front coils creating a full close on the perch if that makes sense.

I’m interested to see how much you love your new enclosure! I was looking at one from their sight today; it’s beautiful! Also stoked to see your little one after the color change. That is a gorgeous baby!


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Wheres the updates!!?? Pros and cons to the cage? Cabt believe there are no pics!! :P You know dang well when Pat gets his AP cage, i will be doing a full photo spread of it as well as Pat lol. But Pat is a little cruiser. At night, that guy sits still for about 5 mins at a time and then is off and running around...unless he is pooping or peeing which he seems to like to do on the floor of cage usually next to one of the live plants. Maybe he is an eco minded snake :D.

Anyways, wheres the updates!!?? And how is the little guys bum doing?

Not really up for pics right now. Still facing a few issues with her and the stress has kind of put me off on posting for a while. Hopefully we have a long term solution planned out with our vet in a few weeks provided she recovers well that should take care of this lingering issue. This has been one of the most stressful pet issues I have ever had to deal with but if we come out ahead on this I am going to be an expert on what she has going on and should be able to handle anything that comes her way :D

Thank god I found a world class vet that can do any type of operation needed and has complete faith she will pull through (he keeps saying to not stress or loose sleep and she will be just fine - that keeps me going)

As for the cage it is fabulous and could not ask for anything better. She is becoming more active in it and it gives me hope that is will develop her muscles to strengthen that area.

Poor little dude. Prayers to him getting better quick. Hopefully later, she gets to enjoy her cage when she gets all better.

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Originally Posted by SDA

As for the cage it is fabulous and could not ask for anything better. She is becoming more active in it and it gives me hope that is will develop her muscles to strengthen that area.

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Definitely should help. Like i said, i would give her lots of small perches and plants to play around on to help. The smaller stuff should help her build muscle back up and it being small diameter stuff, she wont have to use a lot of muscle at once to hold on or risk falling. That is my biggest worry with Pat as he gets up into some crazy places in his cube. The latest pic i posted was last night when he somehow found a little gap between the top of the cage and the sides and decided to do laps around the cube in the gap lol. I was worried he would fall off it at the front as there isnt much to catch him there is did.

Thank you!

I can now reinsert a prolapse better than anyone on this forum I bet. ;)
It's still touch and go and I am expecting the worst and hoping for the best.

That sucks man, hopefully it gets better. How do you reinsert a prolapse anyhow?

Man, that does suck. Doubt i could do it. I would be screaming to my vet that i need an emergency visit. That was pretty much me when Ali ingested some PAM. My vet got me in on her lunch time and flushed Ali with fluids and luckily she pulled through. She was a devil snake that bit everyone including the vet and i ended up rehoming her but i still didnt want to see her hurt.

Very very carefully. You first get some preparation H and some KY jelly (not the liquid the thick jelly and not off brand garbage). You get the snake on wet paper towel and apply preparation h for at least an hour to get he swelling down. Then you grab the snake's head because it is going to be ANGRY and you get either a sexing probe or qtips lubed up really well with KY and you gently find the end of the swollen cloaca and you push it gently but firmly in until you reach the right depth (can be over 3 inches) and you then massage toward the head while carefully removing the tool. It can take a few times (last time it took 3 attempts and she reprolapsed 2 hours later due to pushing out urates again but it went in immediately and did not come out again) and take a great deal of patience and care.

I do not recommend anyone reinserts a prolapse without training by a qualified vet. I only have done it because it was 8 pm on a sunday and could not see a vet and I asked to be trained.

It is also important to get the snake immediately in a shallow water bath to prevent dehydration of the tissue and to keep it observed for it to reinsert on its own. Thankfully my baby has had minor prolapses and they have gone halfway down on their own. The reinserting has not been a big ordeal so I have not had to deal with a complete inversion which is a nightmare and something I hope to never deal with.

We are most likely going to put in a permanent stitch to help the tissue strengthen and prevent relapses. This is now her 3rd prolapse so the possibility of it happening are high. She is still in good health and is very active. I'm also stressed because I have to force her to not eat and that means weight loss. It's critical however so I have to keep a close eye to make sure she doesn't have any sudden issues and that the prolapses have not caused tissue damage or sepsis.

The next 2 weeks are going to be oh so much fun :(

Oh as far as small branches go, she has tons now and the vines I put in she absolutely adores and uses them. Even if she doesn't pull through this, I know she is enjoying her enclosure at least.

So I don't seem all doom and gloom, here is a pic from her cruising around last night.

https://i.imgur.com/VCeAnFA.jpg

So as soon as the lights go out Ganja makes a beeline for her perch extension. She loves to wrap around it and use it to get to lower perches and water.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/k369xr9.jpg

Woah!! An actual update!! Haha, Pat was doing that last night too even though he ate a fuzzy mouse the night before. The guy is such a pig. It's kind of funny how huge their pupils get. Vicky gets the huge pupil too when she thinks dinner is coming. That is how i know, it's time to be careful haha.

So hows the bum doing? And have you started feeding her again yet?

Just fed a water injected fuzzy yesterday. It's underfeeding her but I am going really light and holding off until I see her poop or pass a urate. Fingers crossed she has a problematic free poop ;)

Good luck and soon enough your little girl is going to pooping and peeing like Pat....every other freakin day haha. it's always a piss here or a poop there or sometimes both!! Lol.

Give her tons of water places. I give Pat 2 elevated water bowls and 2 bowls on the floor. He cant go anywhere in his cube without finding water lol. But i also dont mist very often anymore. I mist maybe once every 3 days if that and never actually spray him.

Wanted to update on Ganja. I have not given up yet!!!

Still having a prolapse issues but still not prolapsing any worse than prior times. We learned she defecates/passes urates every 2 1/2 weeks and sheds ever 2 months. She recently went into shed and it was a but broken as I am still learning this new enclosure and the humidity target point for shed of GTP (it is 85% BTW).

We took her back to Dr. Pope in Memphis after consulting with him and he put in a long term stitch from outside to pull back her cloaca/ intestinal tract. This is not invasive surgery yet as we want to avoid this if possible. It is a stitch on her side that can last upwards of 6 months (if needed... Dr Pope will remove it around then regardless of outcome). Well something short of a miracle happened last night. Ganja decided the power cord to the RHP would be her new perch while she recovered. She is still shedding so she is still trying to get it off (she soaked for 4 hours while going to and from the vet and waiting for the appointment so it is 90% off). That's not the miracle. This morning while picking out shed from the floor of the cage I noticed a spot of urate on the training pad I use for substrate. She passed a urate without prolapsing! This is like the best thing to ever happen to her since getting her. We are still far from over this but this is like day 1 of a good thing!

Glad to here she's making a little progress, Im sure in time she will be just fine!.....and its incredibly ironic she likes the RHP cord because my jcp girl does the same exact thing. I instantly knew what you were talking about lol.

....on a side note, if you ever pick up a male I would consider the name "Dabs" :rofl::D

Absolutely gorgeous creature!

good to hear she's making progress!!! [emoji3]

One step forward and three steps back Ganja prolapsed once again even with a stitch in designed to help. Thankfully getting it back in was quick and required minimal effort.

Now I need to make decisions I am not sure I am up to make. She may be too small and it may be too invasive to do internal surgery to try and correct this. I need to pass what happened on to the vet and figure out our best quality of life for her. This is now a chronic issue that is degrading her health and well as I said, I am not sure how ready I am to make that call but if need be I am not going to let an animal suffer.

This is a hard thing to do, never let anyone tell you it's not.

You and ganja are in my prayers

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Originally Posted by SDA

One step forward and three steps back Ganja prolapsed once again even with a stitch in designed to help. Thankfully getting it back in was quick and required minimal effort.

Now I need to make decisions I am not sure I am up to make. She may be too small and it may be too invasive to do internal surgery to try and correct this. I need to pass what happened on to the vet and figure out our best quality of life for her. This is now a chronic issue that is degrading her health and well as I said, I am not sure how ready I am to make that call but if need be I am not going to let an animal suffer.

This is a hard thing to do, never let anyone tell you it's not.

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That is a major bummer. I hope ganja is able to recover her health. Whatever happens, just know that you are doing your best, and we all know you love your pet, and would do whatever necessary to make sure she is healthy.

Best wished Ganja.

From my family to yours our thoughts are with you, and pray for a positive outcome!!!


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That sucks. Hoping Ganja pulls through. I couldnt imagine having to make a decision like that for any of my animals :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SDA

One step forward and three steps back Ganja prolapsed once again even with a stitch in designed to help. Thankfully getting it back in was quick and required minimal effort.

Now I need to make decisions I am not sure I am up to make. She may be too small and it may be too invasive to do internal surgery to try and correct this. I need to pass what happened on to the vet and figure out our best quality of life for her. This is now a chronic issue that is degrading her health and well as I said, I am not sure how ready I am to make that call but if need be I am not going to let an animal suffer.

This is a hard thing to do, never let anyone tell you it's not.

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I've been there. It's tough!

I had a beardie, George, who developed pancreatitis at 11. I chose to put him down instead of major surgery that might buy him a year. I didn't want to put him through it!

So hard with a younger guy though!

My thoughts are with you and Ganja. Know that many people here both empathize and sympathize with you.

Keep us posted and realize, all you can do is make the best decision that you can, nothing more. Whatever you decide, we will support you, and Ganja will love and appreciate you.

Good luck!

Nice looking enclosure for your beauty!:)

Oh man...

How did I miss all this, I'm SO VERY sorry to hear it.

You are in my thoughts for sure, so is the little one. These decisions are the worst. It doesn't even matter if you "know" what is the right thing to do, having to be the one to "say it" is absolutely rough. I've been there...

So sorry, SDA. It's absolutely heartbreaking to see them suffer and struggle. It is an unenviable position you are in, but trust your gut on what is best for her. Cyber hugs to you and Ganja.

Oh no, poor baby! Jedi hugs from the puppy-pile here.


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I keep thinking about you, SDA and about your baby.

How I wish there was something I could do. Sometimes despite everything we try, everything we spend..it just isn't meant to be.

But...hope dies last.

I still have hope.

One thing is for sure, you did ALL you could possibly do. And then some.

Life can be unfair, sometimes. :tears:

Thank you everyone. I have a responsibility to do everything I can to keep this one healthy. I'm going to be talking over with the vet if we have options or if this is degrading her life. Either way it's not the first time I have had to make this decision and won't be the last.

Small update. I know this sounds futile but I am going to try everything that doesn't harm her to see if we can solve this.

The Vet had put a long term stitch through the abdominal wall into the colon to try and develop scar tissue and hold back the tissue from prolapsing. We are going this Thursday to have him reposition a new stitch closer to what we believe is the point of weakness in the cloaca in hopes of better retaining in the tissue when she defecates (urates are not causing her prolapse we have found). This may or may not work but as the current stitch did retard a small amount of prolapsed tissue from coming out, there is a chance, even if slight, that the new stitch will be in the right portion of the cloaca and will help build up scar tissue while preventing too much tissue from falling out that she can't retract herself.

I am also going to go over prey size and possibly up to hopper mice for the calcium load. There is research that calcium deficiency prevents the muscles of the abdomen and cloaca from being able to retract. This research was done on birds, frogs, and chameleons but the theory is sound with snakes as well. While I would never supplement calcium to a snake due to the damage it can cause on the kidneys, larger prey have more developed bones which supplement calcium in their diets (snakes are not able to synthesize and absorb calcium powder like lizards can instead it is completely voided during defecation).

It has also been determined that prey size is not a determining factor in causing prolapses and that was a myth perpetuated by misinformed breeders and keepers who did not comprehend the underlying factors of snake prolapse and their inability to test snakes for disease and deficiency and simply assumed diet was the sole contributing factor (it is not).

While diet restrictions after a prolapse are key (she is not restricted until the next defecation cycle), prey size is irrelevant in prolapse cause.

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Originally Posted by SDA

Small update. I know this sounds futile but I am going to try everything that doesn't harm her to see if we can solve this.

The Vet had put a long term stitch through the abdominal wall into the colon to try and develop scar tissue and hold back the tissue from prolapsing. We are going this Thursday to have him reposition a new stitch closer to what we believe is the point of weakness in the cloaca in hopes of better retaining in the tissue when she defecates (urates are not causing her prolapse we have found). This may or may not work but as the current stitch did retard a small amount of prolapsed tissue from coming out, there is a chance, even if slight, that the new stitch will be in the right portion of the cloaca and will help build up scar tissue while preventing too much tissue from falling out that she can't retract herself.

I am also going to go over prey size and possibly up to hopper mice for the calcium load. There is research that calcium deficiency prevents the muscles of the abdomen and cloaca from being able to retract. This research was done on birds, frogs, and chameleons but the theory is sound with snakes as well. While I would never supplement calcium to a snake due to the damage it can cause on the kidneys, larger prey have more developed bones which supplement calcium in their diets (snakes are not able to synthesize and absorb calcium powder like lizards can instead it is completely voided during defecation).

It has also been determined that prey size is not a determining factor in causing prolapses and that was a myth perpetuated by misinformed breeders and keepers who did not comprehend the underlying factors of snake prolapse and their inability to test snakes for disease and deficiency and simply assumed diet was the sole contributing factor (it is not).

While diet restrictions after a prolapse are key (she is not restricted until the next defecation cycle), prey size is irrelevant in prolapse cause.

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Great info!

As long as you are comfortable with what you are doing for her, that's all that matters.

Sounds like this is a great next step though.

Good luck and keep us in the loop!

Thinking of you two!

Best of luck !!!

I'm crossing my fingers and toes..

Great writeup, sounds like the vet knows their stuff! Hope she heals up well


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SDA

Small update. I know this sounds futile but I am going to try everything that doesn't harm her to see if we can solve this.

The Vet had put a long term stitch through the abdominal wall into the colon to try and develop scar tissue and hold back the tissue from prolapsing. We are going this Thursday to have him reposition a new stitch closer to what we believe is the point of weakness in the cloaca in hopes of better retaining in the tissue when she defecates (urates are not causing her prolapse we have found). This may or may not work but as the current stitch did retard a small amount of prolapsed tissue from coming out, there is a chance, even if slight, that the new stitch will be in the right portion of the cloaca and will help build up scar tissue while preventing too much tissue from falling out that she can't retract herself.

I am also going to go over prey size and possibly up to hopper mice for the calcium load. There is research that calcium deficiency prevents the muscles of the abdomen and cloaca from being able to retract. This research was done on birds, frogs, and chameleons but the theory is sound with snakes as well. While I would never supplement calcium to a snake due to the damage it can cause on the kidneys, larger prey have more developed bones which supplement calcium in their diets (snakes are not able to synthesize and absorb calcium powder like lizards can instead it is completely voided during defecation).

It has also been determined that prey size is not a determining factor in causing prolapses and that was a myth perpetuated by misinformed breeders and keepers who did not comprehend the underlying factors of snake prolapse and their inability to test snakes for disease and deficiency and simply assumed diet was the sole contributing factor (it is not).

While diet restrictions after a prolapse are key (she is not restricted until the next defecation cycle), prey size is irrelevant in prolapse cause.

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Actually prey size associated with prolapse isnt a myth. It is known that the larger the prey, the more liquids the snake needs to expend to digest said prey. Now the problem is if the snake isnt getting hydrated enough, it will deplete its hydration it already has to digest the meal which can lead to a 'dry' poop which then cause the snake to prolapse because it has to push so hard to poop. It's the same as people. If you drink lots of dehydrating beverages like caffeine, it can create rock hard poops which you feel like you are going to blow a blood vessel trying to push it out lol.

I personally am not sure i buy the 'lack' of calcium as a cause for prolapse. Tons of baby snakes have been raised on pinkie mice and have done fine. I would stick to smaller food and inject the prey with a little water before feeding to add extra hydration if you arent seeing the snake drink.

And testing of a snake is as easy as taking a blood sample and doing a blood test. I had one done on Harley when she was younger as i wanted to make sure she was getting the right amount of calcium and protein as she would only eat bugs and hated greens as a baby. The blood test can see everything about their levels.

But anyways, whatever works for you and here's to hoping Ganja pulls through and gets better.