Identifying Blade in clowns?

Any pointers on differentiating a reduced clown from a blade clown? Kinda hunting for my next pickup and hoping for some pointers on the "possible blade" /"reduced pattern" to have the best shot of getting the two gene.

I think there's a lot of confusion about the 'Blade' name. I don't believe it's a separate gene, it's a descriptor for a reduced pattern in Clowns, i.e. you can't have a snake that's Blade without at least being het for Clown. It's similar to Enchi Clown in appearance except that you can't separate out the Blade like you can with Enchi. You have a Blade Clown if the pattern is reduced and there are no other genes at play to reduce the pattern.

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

I think there's a lot of confusion about the 'Blade' name. I don't believe it's a separate gene, it's a descriptor for a reduced pattern in Clowns, i.e. you can't have a snake that's Blade without at least being het for Clown. It's similar to Enchi Clown in appearance except that you can't separate out the Blade like you can with Enchi. You have a Blade Clown if the pattern is reduced and there are no other genes at play to reduce the pattern.

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What? Are you sure? I never heard of that.


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Actually I know you are wrong about this, because blade has a super form, making it a totally separate co-dominate mutation.


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Originally Posted by cchardwick

I think there's a lot of confusion about the 'Blade' name. I don't believe it's a separate gene, it's a descriptor for a reduced pattern in Clowns, i.e. you can't have a snake that's Blade without at least being het for Clown. It's similar to Enchi Clown in appearance except that you can't separate out the Blade like you can with Enchi. You have a Blade Clown if the pattern is reduced and there are no other genes at play to reduce the pattern.

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I don’t know where you came up with this but it’s incorrect. Blade is just another co-dominant morph. Look it up at wobp and you can also find sellers on morphmarket selling blade combos without the clown morph. It is most commonly bred with clown combos though.

Phew that first reply through me as I've seen single geen blades and super blade.
So with that clear is there a way to differentiate blade from reduced pattern in clowns? Or is it a breeder and see kinda thing?

I love basic reduced pattern / banded morphs and strongly considered using blade in my project plans. I like that if has a super form and vivid black banding. I do not like clown. I could have mixed and bred blade into other morphs for years and never had a clown or het clown among them. I don’t know a lot about morphs except for the banded morphs are my focus.


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Originally Posted by chakup

Any pointers on differentiating a reduced clown from a blade clown? Kinda hunting for my next pickup and hoping for some pointers on the "possible blade" /"reduced pattern" to have the best shot of getting the two gene.

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Simple buy from a reputable breeder with a guarantee of both genes. The blade-clowns I have seen have a wide, chaotic dorsal stripe.


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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

Simple buy from a reputable breeder with a guarantee of both genes. The blade-clowns I have seen have a wide, chaotic dorsal stripe.


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There seems to be a lot of possible since still seem to be figuring it out. May make the gamble as found a couple deciding between.

The real problem with blade is that people are calling reduced patterns as blade with never having produced a single gene or super form. I am aware of 1 individual who purchased all of his adult breeder clown stock from 1 person who has no blade yet this person sells them as blade when they are reduced. As a matter of fact you can look at posts and they have pics tagged as #noblade then when it doesn't sell they add Blade to the post to help it sell. So that is where the real issue with Blade lies.

Pays to get knowledge and animals from reputable sources.;)

Breeders looking at our reputable, that's also why asked here for input.

There are reduced pattern clown and there are blade clown.

Blade is a separate gene that has been isolated and proven by Markus Jayne (Mark Mandic) even though it did not originate there, like Pit said know where to get your info.

Had to dig up but found the original story http://reptilescanada.com/threads/th...e-story.70240/

Focusing a minute on just the animals. I do not work with blade but I have been intrigued by it. I love working with reduced animals and "the blades" certainly fit that. My main question is bringing it back to the op's first post. For any of you guys working with it in clowns, is there any physical characteristics you have seen to separate the ids of the blades vs a reduced animal?

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I thought it was more like the white / lavender / purple phase in albino retics, a separate gene with a 'super' (purple) but linked to albino. I also thought that perhaps a gene that was able to be separated from Clown was actually Enchi instead of Blade. I've seen some Enchi Clowns and they look exactly like a Blade Clown. Maybe I'm wrong...

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

I think there's a lot of confusion about the 'Blade' name. I don't believe it's a separate gene, it's a descriptor for a reduced pattern in Clowns, i.e. you can't have a snake that's Blade without at least being het for Clown. It's similar to Enchi Clown in appearance except that you can't separate out the Blade like you can with Enchi. You have a Blade Clown if the pattern is reduced and there are no other genes at play to reduce the pattern.

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here we go again...

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

I thought it was more like the white / lavender / purple phase in albino retics, a separate gene with a 'super' (purple) but linked to albino. I also thought that perhaps a gene that was able to be separated from Clown was actually Enchi instead of Blade. I've seen some Enchi Clowns and they look exactly like a Blade Clown. Maybe I'm wrong...

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no, they're still different. similar pattern wise but they don't have the same super forms when u breed them together. besides i'm sure that BHB woulda said sold the original reduced pattern Clowns as Enchi Clowns to Markus Jayne and Sean Bradley if that were the case. if i can describe the Blade morph itself, like an Enchi w/o the banding, lack of pixels and normal coloring. in a Clown, Blade has a far more varying pattern than an Enchi. it has dots and can have a semi-busy/semi-reduced pattern. i can tell the difference between Blade Clown and Enchi Clown. it's harder to tell the difference between reduced pattern Clown and Blade Clown (and Leopard Clown) and that's why u go w/ a good breeder, good stock, lineage and pairings.

that said, i have a really reduced Clown. it came from a Blade Clown x Blade het Clown pairing from Sean Bradley's EBN stock. it's poss. Blade but i won't ever call it a Blade until it's proven.

https://i.imgur.com/nCZlwLO.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/WxPlvlk.jpg?1

and the dorsal
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/J5TkiRG.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ax01

here we go again...



no, they're still different. similar pattern wise but they don't have the same super forms when u breed them together. besides i'm sure that BHB woulda said sold the original reduced pattern Clowns as Enchi Clowns to Markus Jayne and Sean Bradley if that were the case. if i can describe the Blade morph itself, like an Enchi w/o the banding, lack of pixels and normal coloring. in a Clown, Blade has a far more varying pattern than an Enchi. it has dots and can have a semi-busy/semi-reduced pattern. i can tell the difference between Blade Clown and Enchi Clown. it's harder to tell the difference between reduced pattern Clown and Blade Clown (and Leopard Clown) and that's why u go w/ a good breeder, good stock, lineage and pairings.

that said, i have a really reduced Clown. it came from a Blade Clown x Blade het Clown pairing from Sean Bradley's EBN stock. it's poss. Blade but i won't ever call it a Blade until it's proven.

https://i.imgur.com/nCZlwLO.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/WxPlvlk.jpg?1

and the dorsal
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/J5TkiRG.jpg

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Show off! :D

I don’t care what you call it, I love it!

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Originally Posted by Ax01

here we go again...



no, they're still different. similar pattern wise but they don't have the same super forms when u breed them together. besides i'm sure that BHB woulda said sold the original reduced pattern Clowns as Enchi Clowns to Markus Jayne and Sean Bradley if that were the case. if i can describe the Blade morph itself, like an Enchi w/o the banding, lack of pixels and normal coloring. in a Clown, Blade has a far more varying pattern than an Enchi. it has dots and can have a semi-busy/semi-reduced pattern. i can tell the difference between Blade Clown and Enchi Clown. it's harder to tell the difference between reduced pattern Clown and Blade Clown (and Leopard Clown) and that's why u go w/ a good breeder, good stock, lineage and pairings.

that said, i have a really reduced Clown. it came from a Blade Clown x Blade het Clown pairing from Sean Bradley's EBN stock. it's poss. Blade but i won't ever call it a Blade until it's proven.

https://i.imgur.com/nCZlwLO.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/WxPlvlk.jpg?1

and the dorsal
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/J5TkiRG.jpg

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That is simply amazing !


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I'm still learning a lot about this gene. I just stumbled across this video, looks like it not only reduces pattern but also brightens up the morph, especially when mixed with Pastel, at least for this line of Blade. The het clown may also have an influence there as well. It would be interesting to see what happens if you breed the pastel het clown to a super pastel, that would give all pastel but only half would be het clown, it would separate the blade from the het clown, would be interesting to see if the blade without the het clown still brightens up the pastel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=081knHk4FR8

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

I'm still learning a lot about this gene. I just stumbled across this video, looks like it not only reduces pattern but also brightens up the morph, especially when mixed with Pastel, at least for this line of Blade. The het clown may also have an influence there as well. It would be interesting to see what happens if you breed the pastel het clown to a super pastel, that would give all pastel but only half would be het clown, it would separate the blade from the het clown, would be interesting to see if the blade without the het clown still brightens up the pastel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=081knHk4FR8

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a few of my thoughts:

1. IMO Blade doesn't brighten up Pastel (like make the yellows more vibrant), (besides cleaning the pattern) it makes it a different color, almost more OD-like.

2. i think a Super Pastel Blade (het Clown) would look like a Pastel Blade (het Clown) but w/ more washed out blacks and blushing.

3. being het Clown can have an influence (like being het Pied or some other recessive) but it's not consistent, so the influence will vary from animal to animal if it manifests at all. so i think it would be really hard picking out the het Clown's and non-het's using your method.

Edit:
4. Pastel Blade's consistently look like what's in that vid.