Dumerils Boas are NOT terrestrial

I have moved my 13 months old male Dumerils Boa to his new big adult enclosure since a month. His new enclosure is 7,20 feet long, 2,60 feet deep, 2,60 feet high. So i provided him with a long tree branch to climb on. And he climbs it almost every night and spends hours happily on it. Who said Dumerils boas are terrestrial? False information

Climbing does not mean arboreal either. I have flow in an airplane, would you call me an aerial species? The designation refers to the majority of their time spent in an area. Terrestrial species spend most of the time in the lower parts of their habitats while arboreal spend almost exclusive time in trees. That does not mean either designated species never cross boundaries.

It would be like building a vastly taller than wider cage for a ball python and using a vertical thermal gradient. While ball pythons can climb into shrubbery and trees, creating a habitat as I just mentioned would be detrimental to their captive health. Dumeril's boas are terrestrial but that does not mean that providing climbing enrichment doesn't benefit them. My rosy boa climbs but if I did not have a terrestrial hot spot he would suffer.

Lol When are you gonna stop ??:rofl:

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Originally Posted by SDA

Climbing does not mean arboreal either. I have flow in an airplane, would you call me an aerial species? The designation refers to the majority of their time spent in an area. Terrestrial species spend most of the time in the lower parts of their habitats while arboreal spend almost exclusive time in trees. That does not mean either designated species never cross boundaries.

It would be like building a vastly taller than wider cage for a ball python and using a vertical thermal gradient. While ball pythons can climb into shrubbery and trees, creating a habitat as I just mentioned would be detrimental to their captive health. Dumeril's boas are terrestrial but that does not mean that providing climbing enrichment doesn't benefit them. My rosy boa climbs but if I did not have a terrestrial hot spot he would suffer.

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According to your definition of terrestrial and arboreal which is terrestrial species spend most of the time in the lower parts of their habitats while arboreal spend almost exclusive time in trees i would define Dumerils boas as semiarboreal. As i have mentioned, my Dumeril climbs his tree branch almost every night and spends hours on it. That does not sound terrestrial rather semiarboreal.

So there he is enjoying his tree branch

[IMG]https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...com/dxmg7l.jpg[/IMG]

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/282/0

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It is usually terrestrial and larger specimens are cathemeral whilst juveniles are mostly nocturnal. It is viviparous and litters consist of 6-13 small juveniles. It feeds on wild terrestrial vertebrates as well as domestic poultry.

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More important is this designation:

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Systems:Terrestrial

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The International Union for Conservation of Nature, the experts, might just know what they are doing.

In case you want to debate more, usually means by definition: "under normal conditions; generally." Meaning something usually terrestrial spends time on the ground under normal conditions.

Lol ok so

I swim sometimes for fun. That makes me an aquatic species, am I right?

Young dumeril's do climb sometimes- that's known. Just like MANY young terrestrial species. Once your dum gets older and bigger, they stop climbing altogether. I've removed my branch from my dum's enclosure once she was around 3 years old, because she just burrows under it and never uses it.

And regarding your setup- Where are the hides? Where is your thick substrate? Your setup is honestly terrible for a dumeril's. Dumeril's need hiding places and they are a BURROWING species, not even just a terrestrial species. If you provide them with substrate at least 3" thick, they'll burrow way under and have their nose poking out.

Your substrate is so thin, and your setup is so open.

Tip: Bad setups ALWAYS make snakes behave out of the norm, usually out of discomfort and seeking somewhere better.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

Lol ok so

I swim sometimes for fun. That makes me an aquatic species, am I right?

Young dumeril's do climb sometimes- that's known. Just like MANY young terrestrial species. Once your dum gets older and bigger, they stop climbing altogether. I've removed my branch from my dum's enclosure once she was around 3 years old, because she just burrows under it and never uses it.

And regarding your setup- Where are the hides? Where is your thick substrate? Dumeril's need hiding places and they are a BURROWING species, not even just a terrestrial species. If you provide them with substrate at least 3" thick, they'll burrow way under and have their nose poking out.

Your substrate is so thin, and your setup is so open, there is no doubt all it is doing is attempting to seek somewhere more secure.

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His substrate is Aspin and is thick enough for him to burrow himself deep which he does. He has a hide which he uses very often but its not shown in the photo. The photo does not show the whole enclosure. So he is not climbing to feel secure as you have suggested. I don,t think that he will stop climbing as he gets older

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Originally Posted by SDA

http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/282/0



More important is this designation:


The International Union for Conservation of Nature, the experts, might just know what they are doing.

In case you want to debate more, usually means by definition: "under normal conditions; generally." Meaning something usually terrestrial spends time on the ground under normal conditions.

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I know that Dumerils are defined as terrestrial. I just shared my experience with my Dumeril which contradict that. I also believe what i can observe and see with my own eyes

My baby dum went straight into a 3'x2'x17" cage complete with a perch and branches, he never went up. My bp uses the space more and occasionally climbs up there when he's hunting so moved the dum into a longer lower cage and the bp into that one. The dum is nonstop buried in the substrate or under a hide, he used to go in a cork log but is too big now.

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Originally Posted by GoingPostal

My baby dum went straight into a 3'x2'x17" cage complete with a perch and branches, he never went up. My bp uses the space more and occasionally climbs up there when he's hunting so moved the dum into a longer lower cage and the bp into that one. The dum is nonstop buried in the substrate or under a hide, he used to go in a cork log but is too big now.

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My Dumeril was in 3,2x1,60x1,60 feet enclosure before when he was younger with no branches or perch. So as i moved him to his adult enclosure, i had the space to provide him with a tree branch to climb on. And he did not disappoint me at all.

Not meaning to be rude but why if you believe what you say to be true why so defensive? Also how long have your cared for your Dumeril boa? Animals change behaviours and preferences like children my daughter loved Monster High sore she would forever now latter 13 years old and 500 dolls later can not stand them�� I think listening to advise given to you verse trying to prove a point is more in your and the animals best interest best wishes for you and happy holidays ��

I get the intent of the conversation here but the wording is so absolute and then there always comes the replies of contradiction. It's cool that your dumeril's climbs and others have proven but they are also shy and easily stressed snakes so putting them into too big of an enclosure when small without adequate hiding spaces may be the root cause of climbing.

The answer to this thread is that if something is defined as one type of thing and it does something outside of the definition of that thing, that does not mean that something is no longer that thing. A terrestrial snake that can climb does not invalidate it as being a terrestrial snake. Even sea snakes come on land.

Trolls be trolling:rage:

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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

Trolls be trolling:rage:

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They always are:rofl:

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Originally Posted by C.Marie

Not meaning to be rude but why if you believe what you say to be true why so defensive? Also how long have your cared for your Dumeril boa? Animals change behaviours and preferences like children my daughter loved Monster High sore she would forever now latter 13 years old and 500 dolls later can not stand them�� I think listening to advise given to you verse trying to prove a point is more in your and the animals best interest best wishes for you and happy holidays ��

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I have my Dumerils boa since he was one month old baby. Thank you, best wishes to you also and happy holidays

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Originally Posted by SDA

I get the intent of the conversation here but the wording is so absolute and then there always comes the replies of contradiction. It's cool that your dumeril's climbs and others have proven but they are also shy and easily stressed snakes so putting them into too big of an enclosure when small without adequate hiding spaces may be the root cause of climbing.

The answer to this thread is that if something is defined as one type of thing and it does something outside of the definition of that thing, that does not mean that something is no longer that thing. A terrestrial snake that can climb does not invalidate it as being a terrestrial snake. Even sea snakes come on land.

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I have already answered the point about the hide. The enclosure is big, the photo does not show the hide. Of course he has a hide. He uses his hide regularly. It’s located at the other side of the enclosure. In the photo you can see his big water bowl where he by the way like to hide behind it also. At the other side of the enclosure which does not appear in the photo is the hide. And he can burrow in Aspin as I have mentioned before. So stress is not the reason.

They are so terrestrial Dude. Purely terrestrial, they never climb at all in nature.

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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

They are so terrestrial Dude. Purely terrestrial, they never climb at all in nature.

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I just don’t know how could you be so sure of that if you didn’t visit Madagascar and observed the snakes behavior there. Here is a video that i found on YouTube of some tourists in the forests of Madagascar where they met coincidentally with the cousin of the Dumerils boa, the Madagascar ground boa which is also considered terrestrial. And guess where the boa was? High above the trees.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kfpulmZ5k_A

I have to correct myself, my Dumeril boa is 15 months old now not 13 months.

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Originally Posted by C.Marie

Not meaning to be rude but why if you believe what you say to be true why so defensive? Also how long have your cared for your Dumeril boa? Animals change behaviours and preferences like children my daughter loved Monster High sore she would forever now latter 13 years old and 500 dolls later can not stand them�� I think listening to advise given to you verse trying to prove a point is more in your and the animals best interest best wishes for you and happy holidays ��

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Also i find myself having to be defensive because several members just try to contradict what i say (suggest) just in the sake of contradicting me. I don,t feel that they are really interested in the information itself. For example, even though that i have mentioned at the begining the size of the enclosure and that its a big one, and it was obvious from the photo which i have posted that the photo did not cover the whole enclosure, 2 members suggested that my Dumeril does not have a hide or enough substrate for him to burrow.
Well here is a photo of the other side of the enclosure which did not appear in the previous one. You see his hide, and if you look closely next to the hide you can see a tiny piece of his head, he is burrowing in the substrate.
[IMG]https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/282e1w8.jpg[/IMG]

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Originally Posted by Dutti

I just don’t know how could you be so sure of that if you didn’t visit Madagascar and observed the snakes behavior there. Here is a video that i found on YouTube of some tourists in the forests of Madagascar where they met coincidentally with the cousin of the Dumerils boa, the Madagascar ground boa which is also considered terrestrial. And guess where the boa was? High above the trees.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kfpulmZ5k_A

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That’s a fake video. They can’t climb














;)

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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

That’s a fake video. They can’t climb

;)

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You were serious with your previous comment when you said "They are so terrestrial Dude. Purely terrestrial, they never climb at all in nature". After i have presented you with an evidence that you cannot refute, you are now trying to save face by trying to sound funny.

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Originally Posted by Dutti

You were serious with your previous comment when you said "They are so terrestrial Dude. Purely terrestrial, they never climb at all in nature". After i have presented you with an evidence that you cannot refute, you are now trying to save face by trying to sound funny.

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Super serous. They NEVER CLIMB. you know it’s true, there is no evidence.

Just like I was trying to be “funny” when I said, “TROLLS BE TROLLING.” before that. Is that funny? no. Because it’s TRUE, just like Dumeril Boas can’t climb. so stop using photoshop, to present false evidence.

if you have a real proof, I will concede that Boas are indeed Arboreal Amphibians.

It's ok everything is everything else now. Ball pythons, dumeril's boas, retics, and burmese all live in trees now. Anacondas are desert species now and morelia all live in burrows (mine touched the ground last night with her nose so that is proof). I'm thinking of converting my rosy boas' enclosure to an aquarium because I saw it drink so it must now be aquatic.

Here are 2 more very short videos of Madacascar boas in Madagascar forests on the trees. I post these for everyone to see that i am right about what i have suggested in this thread that the Dumerils boas are infact a semiarboreal snakes.

This is the cousin of Dumerils boa, the Madagascar ground boa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CuO3HFw7DY

And although the title of this video says its the Madagascar ground boa, i can say according to the snakes head and pattern as well as colors that its a Dumerils boa. I am almost 100% sure of that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt_mt0yXL8s

What temps are you getting with that setup? I'd bet this is something as simple as your boa trying to get somewhere warmer.

I am sorry guys, i just keep finding these short videos for Madagascar boas in the wild on trees. This is the Madagascar ground boa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkPgyrG1mk4

...if nothing else, Dutti's threads give me something humorous to read on the toilet...

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Originally Posted by MD_Pythons

What temps are you getting with that setup? I'd bet this is something as simple as your boa trying to get somewhere warmer.

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No worries about that, i am now an experienced snake keeper. I keep the temperature for my Dumerils boa as the same as for my BCI who actually need a bit more higher temperature than my Dumeril. But anyway, in my enclosures (except for my GTP) the warmth comes from the ground not from the above as i use only belly heating. So when he needs warmth he stays on the ground on the hot side. And he climbs his tree branch only at night when the heat source is off.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

...if nothing else, Dutti's threads give me something humorous to read on the toilet...

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I was actually on the toilet when I began debating about which fauna classification Dumeril Boas are, which they are clearly terrestrial tetrapods.

Everyone please notice how these 2 members craigafrechette and Godzilla78
who are saying that they are reading my threads while they are on the toilet, how they are taking this forum to a very low level of discussions. Admins should take a note of that. Its not about me or my threads, its about the level of discussions in this forum.

Ok, but like the way you say stuff. 'Dumerils Boas are NOT terrestrial', like it's fact and even say that them being terrestrial(which they are) is false information. And then when someone who knows what they're talking about comes along and shuts you down it's 'I never said it was fact' and 'oh I was just sharing my opinion, I'm not an expert'. I highly doubt you're an experienced keeper based on the false information you're constantly sharing on this site and the incorrect setup of your animals.


Why is his heat source turned off at night?

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Originally Posted by PythonBabes

Ok, but like the way you say stuff. 'Dumerils Boas are NOT terrestrial', like it's fact and even say that them being terrestrial(which they are) is false information. And then when someone who knows what they're talking about comes along and shuts you down it's 'I never said it was fact' and 'oh I was just sharing my opinion, I'm not an expert'. I highly doubt you're an experienced keeper based on the false information you're constantly sharing on this site and the incorrect setup of your animals.


Why is his heat source turned off at night?

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No one was able to shut me down. Its the other way around.. I provided the evidences. That,s why those 2 members got frustrated and lost all arguments and resorted to insults.
Snakes are cold-blooded animals. They will regulate their body temperature. At night the tempreture drops in the wild, there is no sun at night. That,s why i turn his heat source at night off. And all depends on the season and the temperature outside and in the room. For example, the heat source for my BCI remains in sommer 12 hours on during the day and 12 hours off during the night, while in winter 14 hours on during the day and 10 hours off during the night. And sometimes in winter i make it 16 hours on and 8 hours off. So if you turn the heat source off during the night, you have to make sure that the temperature does not drop below the recommended night levels. I use timeclock or what ever you call it to turn the heat source on and off, never do it manually as you could easily forget it.

At first I just assumed you were not quite understanding written inflection in replies by English speaking posters but now I actually fear for the health of your animals. Knowing that you have some more delicate animals like GTPs, I fear some of them are living on the edge of negligence.

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Originally Posted by Dutti

No one was able to shut me down. Its the other way around.. I provided the evidences. That,s why those 2 members got frustrated and lost all arguments and resorted to insults.

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I was a) not arguing, that comment was my first, and b) not insulting anybody. I find the back and forth between the OP and the experienced keepers to be comical.
Soooo....I definitely wasn't frustrated nor proven wrong. Nice try, though. Also, a few short videos hardly constitutes evidence. I can dig up a video of a beached whale, that isn't evidence of a terrestrial being.

Anyway, I hve not broken any rules of the TOS. That being said, have a wonderful day.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

I was a) not arguing, that comment was my first, and b) not insulting anybody. I find the back and forth between the OP and the experienced keepers to be comical.
Soooo....I definitely wasn't frustrated nor proven wrong. Nice try, though. Also, a few short videos hardly constitutes evidence. I can dig up a video of a beached whale, that isn't evidence of a terrestrial being.

Anyway, I hve not broken any rules of the TOS. That being said, have a wonderful day.

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Yes but you should not tell someone you are reading his thread while on the toilet. What are you trying to say? Is this the level of discussions we want to have in this forum? Have a nice day also

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Originally Posted by Dutti

Yes but you should not tell someone you are reading his thread while on the toilet. What are you trying to say? Is this the level of discussions we want to have in this forum? Have a nice day also

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I enjoy light reading on the toilet, nothing uncommon bout that

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Originally Posted by SDA

At first I just assumed you were not quite understanding written inflection in replies by English speaking posters but now I actually fear for the health of your animals. Knowing that you have some more delicate animals like GTPs, I fear some of them are living on the edge of negligence.

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None of my animals were sick. I took my BCI only once to the vet because he had constipation. All of them are healthy and flourishing. Thank you for your concern.

I'm out. This thread is in the toilet!

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Originally Posted by SDA

I'm out. This thread is in the toilet!

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So this is another one. Please everybody and the admin take note.

I found a Dumerils Boa in the toilet, so they must be aquatic. NOT terrestrial, I was wrong after all.


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Originally Posted by SDA

I'm out. This thread is in the toilet!

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And every other thread created by them also..smh.

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Originally Posted by PythonBabes

And every other thread created by them also..smh.

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Please there should be an age check if someone wants to join this forum. This is really a very very low level. I,m actually surprised that the admins just don,t care. Again, i don,t care personally. Its just shameful for this forum!

Okay. So you are claiming that Dumerils boas are semi arboreal species, purely based on your boa (which you obviously have not had very long), and a few random YouTube videos? Like others have said, an animal doing something does not make them that thing. If you believe they are semi arboreal due to yours climbing occasionally, than surfers or swimmers must be semiaquatic, right? Do you see your failed logic here? In your original post, you say: "this must be false information". Yes, I'm sure zoologists, wildlife biologists, and taxonomist from around the world have seen your post, and are now going to reclassify the Dumerils GROUND boa. And yes, they are indeed GROUND boas. In their natural habitat, they are almost always found on the GROUND. Did it ever occur to you that maybe in the videos you posted the animals may have been a) placed there, or b) scared, so they climbed into the tree? Now, yes, I was not there so I would not know. Yet neither were you. Have you gone to Madagascar to study these animals? I'm going to assume not. While yes, neither have I, but I'm going to believe every other site and reference I know over an unexperienced so called 'expert' that thinks they know all, when in reality they know nothing, and are only trying to get some attention.

I was going to apologize for such a strongly worded post, but ya know what? I feel strongly about this, so the tone seems just right.




Also, you may want to rethink your husbandry as well. People have tried repeatedly to help you, but you refuse to be helped, and are letting your animal's care suffer because of it. Honestly, you need to get off your high horse and let someone tell you what to do for once.

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Originally Posted by JessPets

Okay. So you are claiming that Dumerils boas are semi arboreal species, purely based on your boa (which you obviously have not had very long), and a few random YouTube videos? Like others have said, an animal doing something does not make them that thing. If you believe they are semi arboreal due to yours climbing occasionally, than surfers or swimmers must be semiaquatic, right? Do you see your failed logic here? In your original post, you say: "this must be false information". Yes, I'm sure zoologists, wildlife biologists, and taxonomist from around the world have seen your post, and are now going to reclassify the Dumerils GROUND boa. And yes, they are indeed GROUND boas. In their natural habitat, they are almost always found on the GROUND. Did it ever occur to you that maybe in the videos you posted the animals may have been a) placed there, or b) scared, so they climbed into the tree? Now, yes, I was not there so I would not know. Yet neither were you. Have you gone to Madagascar to study these animals? I'm going to assume not. While yes, neither have I, but I'm going to believe every other site and reference I know over an unexperienced so called 'expert' that thinks they know all, when in reality they know nothing, and are only trying to get some attention.

I was going to apologize for such a strongly worded post, but ya know what? I feel strongly about this, so the tone seems just right.




Also, you may want to rethink your husbandry as well. People have tried repeatedly to help you, but you refuse to be helped, and are letting your animal's care suffer because of it. Honestly, you need to get off your high horse and let someone tell you what to do for once.

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Look, if you have a Dumeril boa or Madagascar ground boa and you have the space to give them some branches or perch to climb on just do it. They will make use of it and appreciate it. They are not 100% terrestrial. They climb a lot for sure. No need to discuss this point further.
What about my husbandry? Every thing is ok with it. I know what i,m doing. There is more than one way to do things. But if you are referring to something in particular i will be happy to hear it.

I'm suspecting some kind of *social/mental disorder. It explains everything, even the other threads. Maybe it is best, just to leave alone the belligerent debate, and the baited opening posts.
(*not being judgmental, I have a mental disorder myself)

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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

I'm suspecting some kind of *social/mental disorder. It explains everything, even the other threads. Maybe it is best, just to leave alone the belligerent debate, and the baited opening posts.
(*not being judgmental, I have a mental disorder myself)

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Now i have reported you to the admin. Let us see if they will take action

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Originally Posted by Dutti

Now i have reported you to the admin. Let us see if they will take action

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Sorry buddy. No offense, just wondering why you interact with everyone on the forum in such a dysfunctional manner.
You could try accepting others’ points of view, and having a nice discussion, versus a heated, belligerent debate with everyone against you. It seems to be a theme for you.


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