mom eat litters

Hey,
I've had a breeding group before they all were hand tame, gave them to a friend a few months ago.
Right now I have brought 4 females and 1 male, 1 of the female gave birth without me noticing and they ate the litters. the second female I have notice the moment she gave her first litter birth and the other female's ate it so I separated them.
After 2 weeks I changed the female cage to a bigger one and she ate the 2 week old litters.

Why they eating their litters? got food and water on a daily basic.
The new breeding group are non-tame mice unlike the other group I had, maybe because of that?
Right now I separated the male (all 4 female pregnant), what to do so they won't eat the litters?

Well, i would double check their water bottles and food dishes bc that's the number one reason for infanticide in mice and rats. Especially not enough water. After giving birth, and to adequately produce milk, the mother needs more food than usual and probably a variety of different foods would help. Protein and calcium stores need to be replenished and kept at higher than normal levels to support the babies health as well as her own. I actually instill multivitamin drops into the water for mine. Make sure all the females and their babies all have separate enclosures. In other words, don't keep multiple litters and the mothers all together.

There are several reasons

Poor nutrition, having food is not all that is required having food that meets their need is.

Stress (very common with mice)

Lactation issues, the babies will either die or be culled by the mother.

Babies died mother clean up (that's what they do they clean their dead)

Bad females.

I can take time to build a good colony and cannibalism can be avoided but you may need to start from scratch with a new group if their is no good explanation.

Sometimes get bad mice, so far females I have go beyond to help each other out. I make sure I dump more food than they can eat even if some of the veggies goes bad to avoid problems.

Comfort...... If rodents don't feel safe they wont keep the litter either.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

There are several reasons

Poor nutrition, having food is not all that is required having food that meets their need is.

Stress (very common with mice)

Lactation issues, the babies will either die or be culled by the mother.

Babies died mother clean up (that's what they do they clean their dead)

Bad females.

I can take time to build a good colony and cannibalism can be avoided but you may need to start from scratch with a new group if their is no good explanation.

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Thanks to all but I think its because the food.
Gave them cheaper rabbit \ hamstring food instead of mice with protein etc' as my breeder friend told me before to do.
The store seller said they will breed with every food ill bring them..

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Originally Posted by doronxl7

Thanks to all but I think its because the food.
Gave them cheaper rabbit \ hamstring food instead of mice with protein etc' as my breeder friend told me before to do.
The store seller said they will breed with every food ill bring them..

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I gave expecting moms cheese and tofu to boost up the protein just in case. If they lack in protein they try to .... get it back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doronxl7

Thanks to all but I think its because the food.
Gave them cheaper rabbit \ hamstring food instead of mice with protein etc' as my breeder friend told me before to do.
The store seller said they will breed with every food ill bring them..

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While you do not need to give cheese,veggies or toffu or any supplements (I would not give those to feeders only pets and as a treat not a staple diet, remember cheese is mainly fat), you do however need a food with 18% protein at all time (breeding and nursing as a feeder breeder takes it's toll quickly and requires energy not found in you store bought mice food or rabbit food.
You do not want to go below or too much higher ince high protein diet can cause health issues as well.

A simple bag of Doggy Bag from tractor supply will do the trick over Mazuri. Since using it it the amount of mammoth tumors in both rats and mice as drop to almost zero which was a big improvement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

While you do not need to give cheese,veggies or toffu or any supplements (I would not give those to feeders only pets and as a treat not a staple diet, remember cheese is mainly fat), you do however need a food with 18% protein at all time (breeding and nursing as a feeder breeder takes it's toll quickly and requires energy not found in you store bought mice food or rabbit food.
You do not want to go below or too much higher ince high protein diet can cause health issues as well.

A simple bag of Doggy Bag from tractor supply will do the trick over Mazuri. Since using it it the amount of mammoth tumors in both rats and mice as drop to almost zero which was a big improvement.

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You noticed Doggy Bag created less tumors than Mazuri? I read in another forum something similar.

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Originally Posted by breederfeeder

You noticed Doggy Bag created less tumors than Mazuri? I read in another forum something similar.

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Yes back when I was feeding Mazuri 8/10 years ago I had animals every other weeks that had to be retired due to mammary tumor.

I decided to switch food and do a side by side comparison with half of my colony on mazuri the other half on doggy bags and the results were very significant enough that I made a complete switch, this year I have retired 3 rats and 2 mice with mammary tumor (I used to retire that many every other weeks) and I have about 15.72 rats and 5.20 to 10.80 mice in breeding rotation (not including holdbacks or feeders)

I read some gave corn and caused massive tumors too. I was thinking giving some colonies more whole corn with their doggy bag. Which is confusing because doesnt a lot mice/rat food have corn?

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Originally Posted by breederfeeder

I read some gave corn and caused massive tumors too. I was thinking giving some colonies more whole corn with their doggy bag. Which is confusing because doesnt a lot mice/rat food have corn?

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yes this is why having a fine balance is what you need, from your ID if you want to breed feeders you need to A/ Keep it simple B/ Find the right balance which at this point you do neither.

Supplement are not always a good thing finding the right food for your animals to thrive is, sometimes having a little too much of something such as protein can be a harmful as not getting enough.

As a feeder breeder you also want to keep you cost down and trust me offering toffu, veggies, cheese not only will be unrealistic if you want to produce thousands of feeders, but it will also likely cause nutritional deficiencies, breeders choosing veggies and cheese (high in fat) over nutritious food that will sustain them and their litters, just like with any other animals or even human they do not always chose what is best if offered a wild variety it's your job to make sure their diet is sound and can be sustained in the long run.

I have done this for a decade and produce several thousands of feeders each year and the extras here are rare, on occasion they get hard boiled eggs, and they get bones from whatever we eat (usually it's turkey around this time of the year).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

While you do not need to give cheese,veggies or toffu or any supplements (I would not give those to feeders only pets and as a treat not a staple diet, remember cheese is mainly fat), you do however need a food with 18% protein at all time (breeding and nursing as a feeder breeder takes it's toll quickly and requires energy not found in you store bought mice food or rabbit food. You do not want to go below or too much higher ince high protein diet can cause health issues as well.A simple bag of Doggy Bag from tractor supply will do the trick over Mazuri. Since using it it the amount of mammoth tumors in both rats and mice as drop to almost zero which was a big improvement.

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What is the maximum protein \ fat I should give my rodents? (2 pet rats that will breed for feeders and feeder mice)?Should dog food be good for the female mice? got 21% protein and 12% fat at my dog food.To my pet rats I give veggies \ leftovers \ pasta etc' but to the feeder mice I will only feed them their food, should I use my dog's food or mice only food product? Another question I have, is it alright to give my snakes rodents with tumor? I did give my corn snake 2 or 3 times female mice with tumor a few months ago.. I don't know if that was good.. he eat well and doesn't refuse anything.

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Originally Posted by doronxl7

What is the maximum protein \ fat I should give my rodents? (2 pet rats that will breed for feeders and feeder mice)?Should dog food be good for the female mice? got 21% protein and 12% fat at my dog food.To my pet rats I give veggies \ leftovers \ pasta etc' but to the feeder mice I will only feed them their food, should I use my dog's food or mice only food product? Another question I have, is it alright to give my snakes rodents with tumor? I did give my corn snake 2 or 3 times female mice with tumor a few months ago.. I don't know if that was good.. he eat well and doesn't refuse anything.

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As far as protein I would go no higher than 20% (been there done that on going higher and you start having scratching, hairless and kidney issues) the fat content I try to go no higher than 10% the other important factor to consider which is present in a lot of dog food is the red dye, it is not present however in doggy bags.

You can use something specifically designed for feeder breeder mice such a Mazuri or Harlan however pet store mice food is just junk through and through and cannot sustain a feeder colony appropriately (pets yes but not breeders)

Is it ok to feed animals with tumor? Yes (I am pretty sure a wild snake would not get pass on any prey), personally I do not, when it happens and it is rare I just feed wildlife with them (then again I live on 4 acres we have owls around, possums, raccoons, skunks etc)

Day before I check up on the fuzzies, their eyes haven't opened up yet. Counted 5 females 8 males. I could see the little indent spots on the females and the males didn't have them. I assume it was the lard I gave the moms is why there are more males based on the govt studies. Today I check up on them and I see half of a fuzzy, I guess one of the mom didn't like that I check on them too much and ate one, hopefully, it was a male... Any suggestion of clear plastics which works best? I like keeping numbers of litters ever possible.