Let humidity drop to 10-20% and only bump it to 50-60% when about to shed (success)

I wanted to report on an anecdotal husbandry tip. I'm in Las Vegas and it's pretty dry all year, around 15-25%. I was trying to keep humidity between 50-60% for my ball pythons by misting a few days per week. I'm using reptichip (coconut) and it holds humidity quite well.

Recently however, I let humidity drop to 15-20% or as low as it will go, no misting at all, and I only raise it 2-3 before they shed. I've noticed no side effects whatsoever: they still eat and poop normally, skin is not dry and they have no problems shedding. The main benefit for me is a cleaner and more "sanitary" tub, because reptichip absorbs everything when they poop, so it doesn't smell and it's way easier to clean. On top of that I don't have to spend time misting or deal with excess humidity.

Has anyone tried this before? It's been about 4 months and all seem to be working fine.

A lot of people use humid hide for a bump in tanks, but I personally would not allow to let the humidity drop that low. It will effect them, at the very least eye denting and other health issues. I have mine set so they don’t get less the 50/55 percent. Then use a humid hide during the shed cycle.

Sorry but that is not a healthy idea. Ball pythons do not have the evolutionary development to handle such drought conditions. You may have not thought you noticed visually any negative effects but you are playing Russian roulette with your snakes. Thankfully you are in Las Vegas where there is a reduced occurrences of fungal, bacterial, viral, and parasitical vectors but that does not mean your snake is not in danger at that low humidity.

You should never let your enclosure fall to such conditions for any length of time as you risk repository distress and harm from severe dehydration. Ball pythons live in native habitats in burrows with high humidity and in captivity they do best at 50-80% humidity. 15-20% is putting them at risk.

Please for the love of your snake, stop letting such conditions stand.

That is a terrible idea and could probably be taken as neglect. Just because you don't physically see the negative affects does not mean they are not there. You may be able to keep a ball python alive like this but sooner or later problems are going to start popping up not to mention it is probably very uncomfortable for an animal that prefers high humidity to be kept in such dry conditions.

Fix your enclosure to keep higher humidity or continue to mist but do not subject your animals to conditions that are far from appropriate for them. If you can't meet their husbandry needs then you should not keep them.

Why chance it like that? Reptiles are notorious for hiding illnesses well, that could very well prove to be fatal in the long run. Why not get a humidifier to raise the humidity in the room instead?

"all seem to be working fine"

I wouldn't let mine drop that low. Where I live humidity is usually 20-40%. It's typically 40-70% in my racks, but I still have eye denting and shed issues from time to time, especially if I don't realize a snake is in shed and start misting right away. Even my rosys seem uncomfortable if humidity drops under 30%. I can't imagine how awful it must feel for a ball python.

You're playing a very risky game my friend and frankly, presenting this method as a "tip" can be pretty dangerous, not just to your snake but to new keepers.

You need to keep in mind this isn't about what's working "so far" but what subjecting your bp to unacceptably low humidity will do to its health long term. This is a recipe for disaster with a RI or serious dehydration just waiting to happen. When you treat husbandry as an experimental project for the sake of convenience you only jeopardize your snake's health. Please rethink this approach carefully and consider the words of warning others are providing you.

Is convenience really worth the extra vet bills in the end?

Watch what Brian Grundy has to say about humidity and let me know what you think

https://youtu.be/nP8RKNN0Wmo

Your 4 month project of attempting to make snake jerky has not been and will never be a good idea. I'm so glad doctors and airline pilots didn't learn their professions from YouTube.

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Originally Posted by leocrespo

Watch what Brian Grundy has to say about humidity and let me know what you think

https://youtu.be/nP8RKNN0Wmo

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I watched it and here's my comments:

60%~high humidity with a dry substrate and good ventilation doesn't promote bad bacteria. It's stagnant air and poor ventilation and damp stuff in the enclosure that causes problems. You know the humidity in Ghana where ball pythons are native is constantly 70~90% or more throughout the year.

He never once brought up his actual humidity in his snake room. Depending on where he lives, perhaps the humidity in his home is 40~50% anyway, and that's still within decent range outside of shedding, where I assume he adds a humid hide. But your 10% humidity is extremely low, and it's always best to provide known and proven good care, IMO at least 40% humidity in the enclosure, than to experiment with a life.

If he doesn't provide humid hides AND doesn't pay attention to humidity, I guarantee you the humidity in his home is at least 60% and lucky him just doesn't realize it. If you haven't seen a ball python have a poor shed yet, they always will at around 50% or lower humidity if they don't have a humid hide/hole. That's just what happens to them.

There's no real evidence that low humidity causes RI though, even though it's speculated.

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Originally Posted by leocrespo

Watch what Brian Grundy has to say about humidity and let me know what you think

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Don't agree with the back/belly heat when you have a heated room....
Also, Do you know what the average humidity in Campbell California is?? :rofl::rofl:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Don't agree with the back/belly heat when you have a heated room....
Also, Do you know what the average humidity in Campbell California is?? :rofl::rofl:

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^ I don't agree with that either, it's like some old myth that terrestrial snakes require belly heat. It looks like he forgot RHP and heated rooms exist.

Brian Gundy....well, let's just say I question his intellectual abilities. :D

I'm sorry but I don't get the bashing on Brian, he's a really nice guy and takes wonderful care of his animals. I've known him for a long time (although we don't talk directly any longer now that the local bay area CA reptile people don't all hang out on KS). I don't agree with him that snakes *have* to have belly heat but it's one of those things - different things work for different people. I guess there's something going on I'm not aware of? I just felt is was uncalled for.
And yes we average 50%+ natural humidity here in the Bay Area.

**
back to the OP - When I lived in Las Vegas for a few years, I had horrible humidity issues and lost my two GTPs and a baby BRB because of it. Almost lost one of my ATBs. My other boas, ATBs and adult BRB were okay in the long run but it was a constant struggle. I ended up having to mist every other day as well as keep a fish tank in the snake room to keep humidity up (didn't have a humidifier but if I still lived there, I would have got one). I'd still get bad sheds from time to time.
So yes, they can handle it, especially somewhat hardier species, but I wouldn't recommend it and it may cause issues in the long run. Please be careful.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

I'm sorry but I don't get the bashing on Brian, he's a really nice guy and takes wonderful care of his animals. I've known him for a long time (although we don't talk directly any longer now that the local bay area CA reptile people don't all hang out on KS). I don't agree with him that snakes *have* to have belly heat but it's one of those things - different things work for different people. I guess there's something going on I'm not aware of? I just felt is was uncalled for.
And yes we average 50%+ natural humidity here in the Bay Area.

**
back to the OP - When I lived in Las Vegas for a few years, I had horrible humidity issues and lost my two GTPs and a baby BRB because of it. Almost lost one of my ATBs. My other boas, ATBs and adult BRB were okay in the long run but it was a constant struggle. I ended up having to mist every other day as well as keep a fish tank in the snake room to keep humidity up (didn't have a humidifier but if I still lived there, I would have got one). I'd still get bad sheds from time to time.
So yes, they can handle it, especially somewhat hardier species, but I wouldn't recommend it and it may cause issues in the long run. Please be careful.

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He is obviously a successful snake-keeper, no question. His educational videos, and his narrow-minded advice are poor quality in my humble opinion.

I appreciate the criticism, thanks for all the feedback. Perhaps the reason I'm not getting bad sheds or any problems is that indoor humidity never gets to < 30-40, even though outside is 10-15. Or perhaps reptichip is keeping it above 50%. I've had many good sheds and all animals are doing fine.

Is it possible that we are over estimating the importance of constant humidity?

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Originally Posted by leocrespo

I appreciate the criticism, thanks for all the feedback. Perhaps the reason I'm not getting bad sheds or any problems is that indoor humidity never gets to < 30-40, even though outside is 10-15. Or perhaps reptichip is keeping it above 50%.I've had many good sheds and all animals are doing fine.

Is it possible that we are over estimating the importance of constant humidity?

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This has to be a troll. No one could possibly be this negligent.

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Originally Posted by leocrespo

I appreciate the criticism, thanks for all the feedback. Perhaps the reason I'm not getting bad sheds or any problems is that indoor humidity never gets to < 30-40, even though outside is 10-15. Or perhaps reptichip is keeping it above 50%. I've had many good sheds and all animals are doing fine.

Is it possible that we are over estimating the importance of constant humidity?

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Totally confused here. Your original post says you let humidity drop to 10-15%. By using the word letting I assumed you were in complete control of the humidity in your snakes cage. Your latest post states 10 to 15% is the outdoor humidity with 30 to 40% humidity inside with a spritz of repticbips thrown in now to possibly have 50% humidity inside your cage. Both of my arms will go verticaly straight up at the conclusion of this post.....I give up. Are we over estimating the importance of humidity? I'm not sure if that should be the question. The question should be do you really understand what you are posting? If so that is your right and I'm cool with that. I will just make sure never draft a speech for me or let you baby sit any of my snakes. Ever thought about a pet cactus?

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Originally Posted by SaucyMeatMan

This has to be a troll. No one could possibly be this negligent.

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Oh no doubt! No more food from me.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

I'm sorry but I don't get the bashing on Brian, he's a really nice guy and takes wonderful care of his animals. I've known him for a long time (although we don't talk directly any longer now that the local bay area CA reptile people don't all hang out on KS). I don't agree with him that snakes *have* to have belly heat but it's one of those things - different things work for different people. I guess there's something going on I'm not aware of? I just felt is was uncalled for.
And yes we average 50%+ natural humidity here in the Bay Area.

**
back to the OP - When I lived in Las Vegas for a few years, I had horrible humidity issues and lost my two GTPs and a baby BRB because of it. Almost lost one of my ATBs. My other boas, ATBs and adult BRB were okay in the long run but it was a constant struggle. I ended up having to mist every other day as well as keep a fish tank in the snake room to keep humidity up (didn't have a humidifier but if I still lived there, I would have got one). I'd still get bad sheds from time to time.
So yes, they can handle it, especially somewhat hardier species, but I wouldn't recommend it and it may cause issues in the long run. Please be careful.

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Speaking of belly heat. Since I started heating my room. I find she stays in the cool hide now 90 percent of the time. She’s about 2 days out from shed. Just ate and went back to cool hide. Bin temps staying right on 83. Heat pad side always at 91.


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10-20%?! That’s lower than the Sahara! Not even Desert species like Leopard Geckos or Bearded Dragons should have THAT low of Humidity! If you find that misting your snakes is too hard an endeavor to keep your animals healthy then DONT HAVE THEM!!!


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I didn't have an hygrometer so I assumed humidity was the same outside and inside. It's sitting at 25-30% now and I'll follow Brian's advice until I see any problem.

His advise doesn't directly apply to your situation because your default ambient humidity is much lower than what he deals with.

I have said this before and I will say it again... just because you can do something does not mean you should.

Cool, so having everyone tell you it's a bad idea isn't raising any flags? Not a single one? I guess it's hard to choose proper husbandry over convenience. Good luck to you then.

What exactly is the evidence that it is harming the animals? I've noticed no side effects whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by leocrespo

What exactly is the evidence that it is harming the animals? I've noticed no side effects whatsoever.

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I don't have a lot of experience with tropical snakes save the single royal python I have and for the two snake species (including the royal) I've kept and in both tortoises species that I have kept humidity and water supply has proven to be critical to health.

I have never seen issues with reptiles that have proper humidity and temperatures, my male royal after me fiddling with humidity and temps has gone from 230grams to 1.1kg in a year. Even temperate species will grow and thrive in appropriate temps, I got my three Mediterranean spur thighed tortoises to gain 10% of their end of summer body weight in 3 months despite the fact that they would have been hibernating during that time period if I had of let them.

Correct temperatures and humidity is critical to maintain good health of a reptile and it also ensures they reach their full growth potential. I have seen this in multiple species of reptile.

I keep my humidity around 80% for my GTP but that's because I notice side effects if they're not high all the time (i.e. they stop eating). What I am noticing with BP is that they only need high humidity during shed and all things being equal a dryer cage is more sanitary and easier to maintain. I am willing to go back to a constant high humidity if I see any problems of if read any evidence.

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Originally Posted by leocrespo

What exactly is the evidence that it is harming the animals? I've noticed no side effects whatsoever.

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Do you now have a hygrometer? If you let your cage stay at 10-15% your snake would not thrive. The first major sign would be dented eyes. What you would not see is kidney distress leading to anything from failure to kidney stones. Constipation is a major concern as it can lead to GI tract issues. One obvious sign is lengthwise skin folds in the snake which are a clear sign the snake's body is trying desperately to conserve water.

Notice I don't mention repository infection? You have to have an infection source to cause infection. Extremely low humidity in a snake not designed to conserve moisture when breathing will cause repository problems but it won't automatically cause a RI. That being said your snake will have issues maintaining proper humid conditions in their lungs at such low humidity.

I am not talking a few days of low humidity but if you keep it constantly like that for months (10%), these signs and symptoms will occur. The longer you let this foolishness go, the worse it will get. What I am getting at is keeping it like that will destroy their immune system and overall health and if not now, down the road you are going to have a problem.

Stop being stubborn and take care of that snake or get one that is more adapted to a desert environment.

Its like saying, "I've been feeding my kid candy and ice cream all day, and see no side effects, so everything must be fine!" A few weeks later the kids is throwing up, malnourished and constipated... ooops. WHY WAIT UNTIL YOU SEE HEALTH PROBLEMS WHEN YOU KNOW THAT BALL PYTHONS ARE EVOLVED TO LIVE IN ENVIRONMENTS OF 50%+ HUMIDITY YEAR ROUND?:disbeliefJust stubborn? or lazy? or just willing to see if your snake gets sick for no reason?:clueless:

Once again, why risk it? Sure it'll be convenient now but it sure won't be when all your bps get RIs. Please raise your humidity, illness isn't worth skipping a couple minutes of misting your enclosures.

Constant high humidity seems to be a consensus here. If this is true then there would be plenty of evidence. Just send me the evidence that constant humidity is required, and high humidity only during shedding isn't enough, and I will gladly change my mind. Just because you say it is doesn't make it so because I can see the opposite with my own eyes. I have two racks so in one I'll keep misting and in the other I'll stop altogether. I'll monitor humidity on both and watch closely. If there are any issues I'll update this post.

Keep that in mind BEFORE you make a post asking whats wrong with your animal........
FYI 50% humidity is not high.

Noted. So my theory is that ball pythons do well 25-30% humidity as long as you bump it up considerably during shed. If there is the slightest problem with any of the snakes in the rack I'm not misting I'll stop and report. If there isn't I'll continue as a dryer tub is better.

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Originally Posted by leocrespo

Noted. So my theory is that ball pythons do well 25-30% humidity as long as you bump it up considerably during shed. If there is the slightest problem with any of the snakes in the rack I'm not misting I'll stop and report. If there isn't I'll continue as a dryer tub is better.

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So they're just a science experiment? Don't mess with their lives and get rid of them if you're not going to care for them properly. I live in Las Vegas too so don't think I'm coming from somewhere that doesn't cause as much struggle with humidity. There's a reason as to why everyone on here is telling you to get your humidity up. Please get rid of them if you can't even get yourself to mist for their health :rolleyes:

You want proof of low humidity issues. I say prove your racks are actually 10-20% humidity. I feel you either are not using accurate measurement or simply do not have something to reliably test inside an enclosure.

Right now it is 35% inside my house but my ball pythons enclosure is 65%.

Prove the inside of your enclosures are under 30% humidity. I doubt they are even under 40%

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Originally Posted by SDA

You want proof of low humidity issues. I say prove your racks are actually 10-20% humidity. I feel you either are not using accurate measurement or simply do not have something to reliably test inside an enclosure.

Right now it is 35% inside my house but my ball pythons enclosure is 65%.

Prove the inside of your enclosures are under 30% humidity. I doubt they are even under 40%

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He already said earlier in the thread that he has no hygrometer and is just completely guessing.

He could be using a divining rod water witchers use to measure his humidity. There are plenty of YouTube videos describing the art of Dowsing. If its on YouTube you know it has to be true.

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Originally Posted by leocrespo

I appreciate the criticism, thanks for all the feedback. Perhaps the reason I'm not getting bad sheds or any problems is that indoor humidity never gets to < 30-40, even though outside is 10-15. Or perhaps reptichip is keeping it above 50%. I've had many good sheds and all animals are doing fine.

Is it possible that we are over estimating the importance of constant humidity?

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Apparently the OP doesn't even have a digital hygrometer anyway and is just totally guessing LOL. Pointless thread.

Hi everyone, heated topic! According to the hygrometers I got, humidity in the house is 30%, inside the reptile room is 15% (I have an oil heater on, might be that), but to my surprise humidity inside the unmisted tubs is never below 30%. It must be the water bowl or just the reptichip really holding onto whatever is left. Blood python tubs are around 70% (I mist twice a week) and my GTP 60-85% (I mist every day and they're not in a rack).

So to continue on my experiment, I'll keep one rack at 30% and allow it to go lower, and the other rack I'll keep misting once a week which should bump humidity to 50-60%.

I'll update with results in a few days. Thanks for all the comments.