My husband wants a GTP :O

So my husband, the non reptile gene carrying love of my life now has it in his head to want a GTP. Thankfully he wants just a GTP and not some crazy designer color phase. The bad thing is I am not all that opposed to the idea. I did tell him we need to do a ton of research on breeders and available lines and which is better, CB imports or US CB. I for one am morally opposed to any wild caught specimens. I don't believe in anyone owning a wild caught as a pet. I understand the importance of it historically to get lines going but in today's hobby there is no reason to own wild caught.

Back on the subject of GTP, I have found the tapatalk forum for arboreal pythons and a few facebook groups as well as i-herp but we are months out from being ready for a more intense snake.

Now what I wonder is it bad to get captive bred from Indonesia through Outback Reptiles? They state they quarantine, treat for parasites and make sure they are feeding before selling or is it viable to get a local captive bred neonate that isn't going to run in the thousands of dollars? I have imposed a limit of no more than $450 for the snake period. I refuse to pay higher because I don't want to so I am reaching out to see if anyone has any first hand experience in getting a GTP in the past few years and where a good deal is? I am not opposed to a biak or cyclops but he really likes the patterning on Manokwari. We do not want anything fancy, just healthy.

Anyone have any input aside from I must be insane to entertain this? :D

I cannot give you ANY advice whatsoever, but, I wanted to wish you luck! They're beautiful snakes :D.

I would highly HIGHLY recommend that you get a captive bred and born, well established snake from a well known breeder.

I would not at all get any kind of import, whether it was captive bred where-ever it comes from, whether it was treated or eating.

I've had 2 Gtp's that were awesome snakes, handle-able (although not a snake you want to handle all the time and for the love of god don't stick your hand in the cage in the evening/night)

Just don't do it (imports).

But that is just my opinion ;)

On morphmarket only saw one from Underground Reptiles for $400 dollars good luck with your new exciting adventure 😊

I agree with what Zina10 has said and personally I'd avoid a captive hatched from a large wholesale distributor. Spend the extra $ on a nice CBB from a hobby breeder and you'll be much happier in the long run, IMO of course.
I would highly suggest picking up "The More Complete Chondro" book written by Greg Maxwell (he has retired at this point sadly but was a wealth of knowledge).

If you want healthy, then definitely get a US captive born and bred (USCBB) snake. "Farm bred"/"imported" are still wild caught.

Here's a link to read through about where the GTP's come from: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/more...ms-t23611.html

They're really not an intense snake by any means, just not always handleable and kid-friendly like ball pythons are. They move rather slowly and deliberately still. Especially if you get a neonate, it's best to avoid handling unless necessary until they're around a year old, because their tails are very fragile.

The fb group called "Green Tree Pythons~ Buy, Trade, Chat" or something is the most active to ask questions and post.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

"Farm bred"/"imported" are still wild caught.

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Worth quoting. If you were experienced with them and wanted one that would be different. Since it's your first get a well-established captive born and bred neonate from a breeder with a good reputation. Yes you will pay more but you will get a much better animal.

I too wanted a GTP at one point. As mentioned, best to get a CBB one although people like Harlin Wall and Ryan Burke at Clockwork Reptiles are pretty good from what i hear. I backed out of getting one as i read quite a few stories of them just keeling over for no apparent reason. I would advise get a juvenile if its your first GTP. Much hardier and still young enough that you can watch the color change. I ended up just getting more boas and a retic. I prefer the bulletproof snakes that i can throw on me and drag around haha.

I appreciate everyone's concern for getting a US born captive bred specimen but... with the horrendous trend of breeders swapping stock for breeding without doing even basic quarantine and now there being a widespread epidemic of nidovirus running through entire collections and the few breeders smart enough to properly protect their stock, prices have become ludicrous for non designer pythons. I am doing my homework ;)

I would prefer and will try my best to get, if we decide on taking on one of these, to have a US born neonate but I will not pay the exorbitant prices these people are now charging (>$1000) for a "normal" pet (meaning non designer or non color shift, non "morph").

Farm bred and wild caught are out of the question, I will not support the removal of species from the wild. I will also not get a captive bred from this country if the breeder will not disclose how they are breeding and quarantining against nidovirus. The vast majority are in this for quick profits and as such have compromised the entire industry. Too many people just in it for a pet have bought a GTP with the best intentions only to have it die because the breeder withheld that their collection was infested with nidovirus.

We are not even thinking of taking on one until spring at least which will give us time to do proper research on both breeders in this country and how Outback Reptiles, the only importer I trust, handles quarantine.

I really can't give you any advice besides go to an established breeder. I just had a freind of mine cheap out and get one from a Petco and it just died on him, he hadn't had it a week. On a side note, if you find gtps too costly or fragile what about a Carpet? They are hardier and cheaper, same genus too. Inland Reptile I've heard good things about Inland Reptile, and he keeps great records. Best of luck to you, in whatever you decide on.

It's not the expense, it's the over pricing of pet animals. There is a difference between the price of rare breeders and something someone will have as a pet. It's a personal conviction but I can't condone overpricing an animal because you think you can make a buck.

Edit: To clarify I am referring to normal stock of species and not designer morphs. I already told my husband we aren't getting a morph ;)

Maybe you might have better luck with hobbyist breeders? I would definitely check out that Facebook group redshepherd mentioned earlier if I were you.

Yup I am working on finding breeders. The other issue is the breeding season is over and everyone's stock is sold or they are raising them up. I have hope there will be some available in the spring ;)

My main question here was if anyone had specific breeder experience which I am looking for.

I'm not sure I'd trust outback.... I read their review threads on fauna classified's BOI and it paints a pretty bad picture in general. I know several people who have gotten sick animals from them. Also note that because they import, they have lots of animals, different species, CB and WC, at their facility which means there is a greater risk of contamination than a small private collection. Their GTPs could easily have Nidovirus as well and I am pretty sure they won't fork over the money to do testing on all their animals. Often, imports will have parasites as well, which can be hard to treat.

GTPs are very expensive, which is why I haven't purchased one yet. They have been costly for years, not just recently. Part of that cost is due to the high rate of deaths in WC and imported stock. You can't breed what dies, and investing in all that breeding stock is pricey. Some localities are more expensive than others, so you have to consider that as well.

IMO, if you find them too costly (at least for now) but want a quality CBB animal that is free of Nido, then you may want to wait a couple years before looking to purchase. Let the industry self-correct on testing for the virus and maybe market prices will go down. With that amount of time, it should be more known who has Nido in their collection as they will have had die-offs at that point. Testing is still in the early stages too, so that will take a while to be finalized.

Have you / your husband considered an ATB instead? They are not cheap but as far as I know, they don't have issues with Nidovirus. Now, they can have an attitude, but I know of some owners that can handle theirs fine. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Funny, it is common even on fauna's BOI to confuse Outback with Underground Reptiles. Even the owner has had to come on and state he has nothing to do with Underground Reptiles. Outback has a stellar reputation on Fauna's BOI.

Thanks for the advice but I still am only looking for breeder names that sell "normal" GTPs for sub $500 which I know are out there, I simply want some recommendations.

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Originally Posted by SDA

It's not the expense, it's the over pricing of pet animals. There is a difference between the price of rare breeders and something someone will have as a pet. It's a personal conviction but I can't condone overpricing an animal because you think you can make a buck.

Edit: To clarify I am referring to normal stock of species and not designer morphs. I already told my husband we aren't getting a morph ;)

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Well you have to consider they are in very high demand with very low supply. It's hard to breed wcs that can easily die, you have to treat them for parasites, fix nidovirus, etc, etc. Not many people are willing to invest, so the ones that succeed charge what they feel it is worth. I think for what the animal is the pricing is fair. It's harder to do than bp morphs, and takes years to complete. So I think asking 500$ for a cb gtp is pretty low. If I had cbs I'd be asking 750 atleast.

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There is a uscbb aru year-ling on the Facebook group Redshepard suggested for 600.00. The seller has pics of parents etc. It is docile and healthy as well as old enough not to be too fragile. Perfect first time pet gtp imo.

It's ok, if the price point is beyond my acceptable limit, we simply will not buy.

Trust me, we are not trying to rain on your parade or trying to talk you out of it.

$450 IS a lot of money already, like you said. But it is even "more" money if you end up being un-happy or have to tack on vet prices with a unknown outcome.
$650 can end up being far cheaper, plus the added peace of mind and happiness.

GTP's are simply another class from Ball Pythons or even Blood Pythons and Boa's. I'm not even talking "Temperament" here. The GTP's I've had were actually quite the tame animals. (aside from evening/night time) They simply are far more fragile. They grow slower. You haven't seen TINY yet, until you've seen a GTP hatchling. Even yearlings are still quite the fragile animals.
If you end up with one that you may have to regularly check over or treat for anything, it will be far more difficult then with any of the other snakes. Even a smaller BP is easier to handle (not talking temperament) then a small GTP. Just getting a GTP to come off of their perch is NOT easy, it takes practice and patience and IF you end up with a nasty one...oy !! Not fun. Either the snake or you will end up hurt.

GTP's are wonderful snakes. I think you could deal with one without a problem and it would be a treasured animal in your collection. We're just trying to spare you the grief that can come from making the wrong decision.

Could you end up being lucky with one of the imports ? Sure. But just as possible you won't be. Even if a facility has a fairly good reputation, if they deal with a LOT of imports (like Outback does) you always take a risk. Many diseases are transmitted through AIR. Mites travel as well, and I don't care how much they treat for parasites, you can't kill them all if you constantly add new imports. And you cannot possibly do correct quarantine. If you did, you would have to set up EACH new shipment in a separate building and keep them there for a few weeks. Making workers change clothes between each building and sanitizing everything constantly. They do not do this. They expect their customers to realize what they get into when purchasing an import. Some experienced keepers will take that on. They know what to expect and can deal with the consequences. And to them its worth the risk to loose a animal here and there, as long as they get them cheap. And $400 for a GTP IS cheap.

There is no price differential between "pet quality" or breeder. There are price differences for USCBB, wild caught, import and yes, morphs. Morphs will cost more, but even a nice USCBB animal has a solid price, and for a reason.

To me its even more important to pick a nice, healthy USCBB animal from a reputable breeder if I'm looking to add a "pet". Because I want to make sure I can enjoy this pet without worry. It's not a "locked away" breeder who's temperament doesn't matter.

Just imagine what these snakes go through during "Import". And how they are bred, hatched and raised in those countries. Its all about profit. They make more money keeping them in rather questionable conditions (on the cheap) even if that means they loose many animals. Its still cheaper that way. Import is harsh on those animals too, and stressful. We all know what stress does to the immune system. Then they arrive in the country and get passed around a few more times (Layovers, customs, etc). They eventually arrive at destination and then get sorted and manhandled to be "treated" as a precaution. These animals have been through the ringer, and their experiences with people are nothing but fearful, painful and stressful up to that point.

Even if the importer gets them to eat, that does not mean everything.

If you can find a nice USCBB juvie that is well established and calm (somewhat tame) for around $650, that is a DEAL. I would try to put aside an extra $50 per month and then get a quality animal in time. You will not have to worry about infecting the rest of your collection with something, either.

Ultimately, it is up to you. And trust me, I understand...I'm a person with zero patience. To say patience is not my virtue is an understatement. I know how tempting it is to "just go for it" and if that is what you want to do, by all means, go for it. We will still be here for you and help you along and admire your pictures. We honestly just want to help you, so that your GTP experience will be a good one :)

I got my two GTP's from Ophiological Services in Florida, from Eugene Bessete. We were lucky enough to go there in person. It was AMAZING. The facility was not just beautiful but clean enough to eat off of the floor !!! GTP's everywhere !!! Eye Candy :)

That day they had about 35 or so hatchlings I could pick from. They told me to go ahead and clean each container (which meant moving their little perches, cleaning, then putting them back). Actually , that was brilliant! I got to see each little stinkers temperament and could really look them over well. I got my first 2 bites that day (LOL) but I fell in love with 2 of them. I only came for one, but left with two ;) Those 2 I removed from their perches (they showed me how) and handled them briefly.

While Ophiological Services still exist, they do not work with GTP's anymore, sadly. But if I were ever to get another one of those fun and gorgeous snakes, I would make sure it would come from a breeder with the same principles and ethics. USCBB with care and pride. Little stinkers that have never been mishandled or manhandled and the only stress they will know is during the brief shipping period.

Just think it over ;) And know we'll support you either way :)

Oh trust me no rain has fallen on my parade here. I have already gone through all these concerns with my husband educating him on snakes in general and GTP breeders and such.

It's not a matter of price, it is principle. If I thought a snake was worth $2000, I would pay $2000. I do not feel a normal non designer GTP is worth more than the price I already mentioned. I do not care the demand currently, I would never contribute to high price gouging. I'm not new to GTP for pricing so I am familiar with the market over the past 15 years. I simply refuse to be part of the problem of overpricing snakes that is rampant in this entire hobby and will do without or wait years before wasting one penny more than I feel something is worth just because someone is greedy. No offense intended to any breeder, that is simply my morals on this hobby and pet ownership in general.

Considering the care requirements, challenge to not only breed them but produce healthy offspring and get them eating as well as the continued customer care I see no reason why a non designer morph should cost less than the prices discussed. These are not bp's and at least the higher price tag would bring a higher level of commitment from the keeper. Like it or not, gtp's are not for the casual collector.

I don't think it's all because breeders are greedy. If you think what you took the time to breed and work with is worth a fair price that's not greedy. They want to charge a fair amount for what they accomplished, if they wanted to make a quick buck, they wouldn't be breeding gtps. There are much easier and more profitable ways to make money.

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I think this has went to far off track. I am not needing advice on the history, types of, locality, price points, or other basic information. I simply wanted breeder information from people who had bought GTP over the past few years so I could look up information on them. I think this served it's purpose for me and before it leads to further frustration on my end over going off on a tangent instead of answering my question, I am just going to thank everyone for their knowledge shared but it was not what I was looking for.

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Originally Posted by SDA

I think this has went to far off track. I am not needing advice on the history, types of, locality, price points, or other basic information. I simply wanted breeder information from people who had bought GTP over the past few years so I could look up information on them. I think this served it's purpose for me and before it leads to further frustration on my end over going off on a tangent instead of answering my question, I am just going to thank everyone for their knowledge shared but it was not what I was looking for.

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Sorry it wasn't what you were looking for. If you want a cheaper uscbb gtp, than I suggest you wait. To be honest I wouldn't trust someone trying to sell me a cbb for 500 or less. I'd rather pay the money for something that I can guarantee is captive bred and healthy. Maybe the reason your question wasn't answered is because there aren't really uscbbs for that price, and you'll have to wait for when we have a larger captive supply, and prices will drop lower.

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OP, I think this thread is incredibly helpful and I'm glad you posted it! While you didn't get the answers you were hoping for, I think others will learn from it.

I am looking to get a GTP later next Summer - weirdly enough, thanks to my previously snake ambivalent husband, too, who's now totally into it. I'll only do an older uscbb when the time comes. Willing to shell out the bucks, even if it's perhaps artificially high. I'm not experienced enough to take on potential and unnecessary risks of questionable breeding/importing practices. Plus, I want to reward the breeders who are doing it the right way with my dollars. And I'll need at least these next 4-6 months to do the proper research and preparation before I can move.

But that's me, I know we all have to set our principles and boundaries somewhere.

Good luck, and if you don't mind - please continue to update this thread if you find what you're looking for.

Some reputable breeders: Ian Bessel, Harlin Wall, Ryan Burke, TK Chondros

If you aren't happy with USCBB prices, yet want a guaranteed healthy animal, then I'd suggest to get a different species. GTP don't start selling out of the egg after 2 or 3 meals like ball python hatchlings. It takes months to establish a GTP hatchling properly before selling, they're fragile and tiny for much longer than a ball python, and it takes 3-4 years to raise a healthy male or female breeding adult.

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Originally Posted by SDA

I think this has went to far off track. I am not needing advice on the history, types of, locality, price points, or other basic information.

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It is because these are important points to consider, and you brought some of them up with some arguable comments, so they are brought up.

I cannot vouch for him personally but he has good reviews on fauna, Buddy at GTPKeeper has some captive bred/born babies and a few are $500 (most of them though are what I consider a good normal 'market range' for CBB GTPs $750-950).
Good luck in your search.

If you are looking into Green Tree, I would recommend to contact Will Bird http://ectotherms.accountsupport.com/ when baby season is around or even now, he does not update his website much so his availability or price are not always up to date but he has been around for a long time (one of the low key breeders) and work with various animals including GTP

Thank you and please don't think I don't appreciate all the words of advice. I have a very annoying better half who wants ever bit of information and has the patience of a gnat! I think I might have convinced him that waiting until at least spring is healthy for hte animal as a whole as we are in for a cold winter this year and I really don't want to get something established when it is so cold out.

If and when we decide I will make sure to post all about this here. We may even suck it up and spend a decent amount for a healthy uscbb after all.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

I cannot vouch for him personally but he has good reviews on fauna, Buddy at GTPKeeper has some captive bred/born babies and a few are $500 (most of them though are what I consider a good normal 'market range' for CBB GTPs $750-950).
Good luck in your search.

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I want to personally say thank you for this one as well as Deborah's reply. Both have very useful information on their pages and GTPkeeper has detailed information that I was looking for.

I personally think you should show your hubby a green anaconda. They are green and much hardier than GTPs....just ignore the size difference. :P

I know Eugene Bessette doesn't work with GTP's anymore, but he has been called "The Godfather" of GTP's and what I saw at his facility was breath taking !!

He is very passionate about his animals and I bet he is still in touch with other breeders. Even though he doesn't have any GTP's right now, I bet he could steer you in the right direction. When we were there he loved to discuss the animals and he was super nice and helpful.

They have a facebook (ophiological services) if you want to get in touch with them..

And good luck with everything :)

Just to update. I got a lot of responses from breeders. Amazing how many are actually breeding non designer. My price range of $400-450 is spot on actually. It's too cold this winter to ship and establish a neonate but I have one I contacted and we are working out reserving his next clutch once it gets started this coming spring. He actually has a few he is holding back and may let one go so I might get a 6-9 month established one sooner if the weather warms up.

If anyone is looking into USCBB GTPS, they are not rare and not expensive for what they are. If you are willing to wait, you can get an aru or biak for $400 from a US breeder.

That is great !

Let us know once you get a little glow worm, and post lots of pictures :)

We went to pay a visit to my cousin and a few of the hold back GTPs from the breeder he had introduced me to. He was super nice and let us come check out our future baby on such short notice. Turns out my husband just lost it and I have never seen a 47 year old man turn into a 5 year old so quickly. Against my better judgement, we ended up taking the one he fell in love with home the next day. Thankfully I had the heating equipment, temp probes, and spare thermostats to setup a decent tub.

6+ hours of a very nerve wracking, for me, drive home including one time he/she nearly escaped from the partially unzipped container bag we bought and cobbled together (those insulated soft coolers work amazing for snake carriers FYI) we now have a settling into quarantine 8 month old Aru US born and bred GTP. I think we spent 3x the shipping cost in travel expenses but it was kind of fun to visit family and get out for the weekend.

Funny story, we were joking how active she was and my husband absentmindedly reached into the cooler and found first hand just how much those fangs can hurt. So he got christened with the first bite for a change instead of me usually being the one. Anyway enough of the boring story about how foolish I was, here are pics!

Meet Ganja (husbands name, I wanted Nosferatu)
https://i.imgur.com/r8yuSB7.jpg

I swapped the temp wooden dowel for pvc I had lying around in the garage actually
https://i.imgur.com/rsi7oFd.jpg

Awwww...what a cutie [emoji4]


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Originally Posted by SDA

We went to pay a visit to my cousin and a few of the hold back GTPs from the breeder he had introduced me to. He was super nice and let us come check out our future baby on such short notice. Turns out my husband just lost it and I have never seen a 47 year old man turn into a 5 year old so quickly. Against my better judgement, we ended up taking the one he fell in love with home the next day. Thankfully I had the heating equipment, temp probes, and spare thermostats to setup a decent tub.

6+ hours of a very nerve wracking, for me, drive home including one time he/she nearly escaped from the partially unzipped container bag we bought and cobbled together (those insulated soft coolers work amazing for snake carriers FYI) we now have a settling into quarantine 8 month old Aru US born and bred GTP. I think we spent 3x the shipping cost in travel expenses but it was kind of fun to visit family and get out for the weekend.

Funny story, we were joking how active she was and my husband absentmindedly reached into the cooler and found first hand just how much those fangs can hurt. So he got christened with the first bite for a change instead of me usually being the one. Anyway enough of the boring story about how foolish I was, here are pics!

Meet Ganja (husbands name, I wanted Nosferatu)
https://i.imgur.com/r8yuSB7.jpg

I swapped the temp wooden dowel for pvc I had lying around in the garage actually
https://i.imgur.com/rsi7oFd.jpg

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Cool animal. Who was the breeder?

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Thanks! I have not really slept at all getting up every few hours making sure I have the temps right and humidity on point. This is the craziest thing I have ever done animal purchase wise and I am still not sure if I am happy about it...

Beautiful little Aru! Be sure and post pics of all his/her color changes!

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Originally Posted by tegu

Cool animal. Who was the breeder?

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Biologist Friend of my cousin. He actually just has two breeding pairs and said he had luck with clutches. This is actually his first year trying out breeding and isn't sure he wants to do it or not. I have no clue about the success rate of GTP eggs so no clue if luck or just normal. This one is from his first clutch in April.

Beautiful! The snake is saying you can look but cant touch :rofl:

What a stunning snake you've got... Me likes a lot...

What a looker! Definitely keep us updated with him!

Will you be putting him in a PVC cage, or will he be in a tub? I'm not familiar with their husbandry requirements--can they be kept in a ball python rack?

It is in a tub right now to go through quarantine. I am going to get a pvc enclosure once out of quarantine. I am going to call AP to see how expensive a custom dimension cage is but most likely will just go with pvccages.com because I am not happy with AP's wait times right now and not looking to wait 4 months for a cage.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/JY1mhHB.png
Oh wow you actually got one lol, and what a coincidence too. A buddy of mine got a Biak not too long ago.

I just love the eye patterns on these snakes. Tell your friend they are faster than anything and super accurate so if you aren't watching their every move they will tag you before you can even blink but then again I bet they already know that LOL

Oh yeah he knows lol. GTPs are beautiful but I don't think I really want one. Too fragile for my tastes.

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Oh yeah he knows lol. GTPs are beautiful but I don't think I really want one. Too fragile for my tastes.