"Loves" Being Handled

So one of the facts that the breeder I bought from told me about my 3-month old Ball Python was that he was handled "every day" (which I'm going to say right now was probably exaggeration), and apparently that he "liked" it. She seemed to be very focused on making sure her snakes could tolerate handling before being sold. But then also said that his behavior wasn't typical among her snakes, and he seemed to be the one to most likely want, or at least tolerate, handling. He's very docile and has never bitten according to her.

I know snakes aren't like other animals like cats or dogs, and I'm not here to say my Ball Python likes being handled. I'm more curious if this would actually have consequences? If he was routinely handled outside of feeding times, would it become something he expects, kind of like how BPs behaviors change around feeding days? She did keep him on a feeding schedule, every Friday, and he readily followed that too. I don't know if she over-handled and if it's something I should continue.

Depends on the snake. My snakes all tolerate handling every other day if i had the time. They really care less either way or they havent shown any adverse effects. My retic seems to actually like attention but not really being carried around. He will come to the front of the cage and sit next to me while i pet him for 30 mins or so. I generally get bored of standing there petting him before he gets bored of me and wanders off to the back of the cage or somewhere else in the cage other than next to me. If i get bored first and leave, he will usually hang down the cage stack and go to the floor and explore around. I know this is the BP section but here is a pic of Caesar soaking up some petting 'love' lol. And yes, i know he has a big head haha. Bottom line is it really depends on the snake. If your snake is tensing up when you hold him, then i would probably put him back as tensing up is a sign of stress.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...d45f2aff_h.jpg

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Originally Posted by LtHoneybun

So one of the facts that the breeder I bought from told me about my 3-month old Ball Python was that he was handled "every day" (which I'm going to say right now was probably exaggeration), and apparently that he "liked" it. She seemed to be very focused on making sure her snakes could tolerate handling before being sold. But then also said that his behavior wasn't typical among her snakes, and he seemed to be the one to most likely want, or at least tolerate, handling. He's very docile and has never bitten according to her.

I know snakes aren't like other animals like cats or dogs, and I'm not here to say my Ball Python likes being handled. I'm more curious if this would actually have consequences? If he was routinely handled outside of feeding times, would it become something he expects, kind of like how BPs behaviors change around feeding days? She did keep him on a feeding schedule, every Friday, and he readily followed that too. I don't know if she over-handled and if it's something I should continue.

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Well, isn’t a snake that seems to tolerate handling better than a snake that doesn’t tolerate handling at all? If the snake tolerates handling, Id say continue to handle it. As long as it eats, sheds, and remains healthy, I honestly don’t see why not.


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Originally Posted by JustinGatCat

Well, isn’t a snake that seems to tolerate handling better than a snake that doesn’t tolerate handling at all? If the snake tolerates handling, Id say continue to handle it. As long as it eats, sheds, and remains healthy, I honestly don’t see why not.


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I don’t think snakes “love” being handled, but snakes definitely can become used to handling. To tame snakes, Handling is just something that happens to them, like feeding or shedding and stuff, and they just let it happen(in my theory). A snake can’t love being in contact with you like a cat or a dog, but they probably just don’t mind.


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Originally Posted by JustinGatCat

Well, isn’t a snake that seems to tolerate handling better than a snake that doesn’t tolerate handling at all? If the snake tolerates handling, Id say continue to handle it. As long as it eats, sheds, and remains healthy, I honestly don’t see why not.


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Wasn't necessarily meaning to imply it's a bad thing! Just trying to gauge how I should handle my snake. And a little curious if there would be a difference between a Ball Python handled every day versus a Ball Python handled once a week but still okay with handling? There's probably no answer, but I still ponder.

Well, BPs are known to have personalities, though not as diverse as dogs or cats like you said. I do have experience with BPs who actively request handling though, mainly with my BP. Whenever he wanted to be handled, he would climb onto the small branch I have in his enclosure and he would just stay there for up to an hour or until I pick him up. I know he wants to be handled because he doesn't resist when I pick him up during his ritual, he doesn't even snap back his head, and he would actively crawl around on my hands. I'd say your BP is probably just extra friendly!

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Originally Posted by JustinGatCat

I don’t think snakes “love” being handled, but snakes definitely can become used to handling. To tame snakes, Handling is just something that happens to them, like feeding or shedding and stuff, and they just let it happen(in my theory). A snake can’t love being in contact with you like a cat or a dog, but they probably just don’t mind.


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You make an awful lot of sense ..
I do sometimes wonder why they seem so 'content' with us (body temps of 98.4F ) holding them , sometimes for extended periods yet the suggested 'safe' temps in their setups seem to range from 79F (cool) to 92F ( warm side)..


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They are actually finding out new stuff all the time with reptiles now as they are more focusing on studying them. Sure they dont have the part of the brains that can rationalize love but whos to say they dont 'love' us in their own way.

Look at birds which are very close to reptiles. Birds express a form of love to their owners, not mammalian love but a form of it nevertheless.

I personally believe my snakes do recognize me and do feel im the 'safe place' which to me is the equivalent form of reptile love. The first time i took Harley to the vet, she got so scared, she pooped all over the nurses shoes, exam table and then leaped from the vet to the table and then ran across the table, jumped on me and ran up my shirt and hid under my chin while peeking out at the vet and nurse.

Then the first time i took Rosey my 6.5 ft bci to the vet, she would do everything in her power to get back to me whenever the nurse or vet removed her from me. She would grapple me with her tail and push the vets hands away and try to get back to me. let me tell you, trying to restrain a 6.5 ft boa who REALLY wants to get somewhere is a job. Once she got back to me after that first 'taking', she wrapped around me and gripped me like life depended on it lol. The vet finally just had me hold her while she did the exam as Rosey was more than happy to let people touch her and probe her as long as she was on me. The vet actually joked about how good i must take care of my pets as all my pets seem to 'love' dad lol.

I really think once the people actually focus research on reptiles, they will find a lot of stuff they didnt know about the psychology of reptiles. But one thing i will say that i know with no doubt......once a snake smells food, all reasoning or 'love' goes out the window hahaha. It becomes GIVE ME DINNER NOW!!

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

They are actually finding out new stuff all the time with reptiles now as they are more focusing on studying them. Sure they dont have the part of the brains that can rationalize love but whos to say they dont 'love' us in their own way.

Look at birds which are very close to reptiles. Birds express a form of love to their owners, not mammalian love but a form of it nevertheless.

I personally believe my snakes do recognize me and do feel im the 'safe place' which to me is the equivalent form of reptile love. The first time i took Harley to the vet, she got so scared, she pooped all over the nurses shoes, exam table and then leaped from the vet to the table and then ran across the table, jumped on me and ran up my shirt and hid under my chin while peeking out at the vet and nurse.

Then the first time i took Rosey my 6.5 ft bci to the vet, she would do everything in her power to get back to me whenever the nurse or vet removed her from me. She would grapple me with her tail and push the vets hands away and try to get back to me. let me tell you, trying to restrain a 6.5 ft boa who REALLY wants to get somewhere is a job. Once she got back to me after that first 'taking', she wrapped around me and gripped me like life depended on it lol. The vet finally just had me hold her while she did the exam as Rosey was more than happy to let people touch her and probe her as long as she was on me. The vet actually joked about how good i must take care of my pets as all my pets seem to 'love' dad lol.

I really think once the people actually focus research on reptiles, they will find a lot of stuff they didnt know about the psychology of reptiles. But one thing i will say that i know with no doubt......once a snake smells food, all reasoning or 'love' goes out the window hahaha. It becomes GIVE ME DINNER NOW!!

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I have the same experience. Ragnarok is cool as a cucumber around me, and will gladly let me handle her and such. One time, my friend came over and I showed him Ragnarok, and she FROZE in terror! Was on the floor playing dead until I picked her back up and put her in her enclosure. She was also very skittish around my kids, until she learned that they are "family" and will never hurt her intentionally, and now she will sit in their laps and such. Flame is a newer addition, but she is becoming very tame also around her human "family" or whatever you call it. LOL, reptiles are different than us for sure, so it is difficult to understand and explain their behavior

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

They are actually finding out new stuff all the time with reptiles now as they are more focusing on studying them. Sure they dont have the part of the brains that can rationalize love but whos to say they dont 'love' us in their own way.

Look at birds which are very close to reptiles. Birds express a form of love to their owners, not mammalian love but a form of it nevertheless.

I personally believe my snakes do recognize me and do feel im the 'safe place' which to me is the equivalent form of reptile love. The first time i took Harley to the vet, she got so scared, she pooped all over the nurses shoes, exam table and then leaped from the vet to the table and then ran across the table, jumped on me and ran up my shirt and hid under my chin while peeking out at the vet and nurse.

Then the first time i took Rosey my 6.5 ft bci to the vet, she would do everything in her power to get back to me whenever the nurse or vet removed her from me. She would grapple me with her tail and push the vets hands away and try to get back to me. let me tell you, trying to restrain a 6.5 ft boa who REALLY wants to get somewhere is a job. Once she got back to me after that first 'taking', she wrapped around me and gripped me like life depended on it lol. The vet finally just had me hold her while she did the exam as Rosey was more than happy to let people touch her and probe her as long as she was on me. The vet actually joked about how good i must take care of my pets as all my pets seem to 'love' dad lol.

I really think once the people actually focus research on reptiles, they will find a lot of stuff they didnt know about the psychology of reptiles. But one thing i will say that i know with no doubt......once a snake smells food, all reasoning or 'love' goes out the window hahaha. It becomes GIVE ME DINNER NOW!!

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Awesome post, Sauzo. Thanks for sharing.

The only thing I know for certain anymore is my ball python loves to poop, pee more than any animal I have ever had, and wedge himself as far back into his hides as he can possibly do.

Every time I handle mine he wants to get on the floor. Ever single time. He accepts me handling him after these years of having him but I would never put the word love and handle in the same sentence.

That being said I am a firm believer in anything from an insect all the way up to people can be trained to feel safe around another person just like they can be broken to accept their fate and not fight back any more to escape from another person. I prefer the former approach over the latter.

In the wild most snakes (esp. the smaller ones or younger ones) are dinner for all kinds of animals.
Or being killed by humans.

They are not just predator, they are also very much "prey".

Snakes, esp. Ball Pythons, value their safety and privacy. They quickly learn to recognize where "safe" is or their "familiar" (safe) surroundings. If handled enough, they quickly realize that THIS moving/warm "thing" does not hurt me. Of course, if anything changes, like the "surroundings" or how long the handling sessions is, the snake can get nervous again. At this point the only "familiar" thing is this moving/warm thing they know, and while some may try to make a run for it, others seek out the familiar and safe "thing".

I like to pretend its "love". Even a form of it. But I'm quite alright with them simply trusting me not to hurt them and tolerating my shenanigans (handling).

I think that in itself if pretty dang awesome, that such a wild and primitive animal can trust me not to hurt it.

So..there is nothing wrong with people reading more into it then there may be, as long as they do not overdo the handling, forcing the animal to get "tame". Or trying to domesticate it like you would a dog or cat by forcing "to much" on this animal.

As for a breeder handling every day. Well, I'm not a "breeder" per se, but I have raised a few clutches. My babies are being handled almost every day. Simply because I check on them at least twice the day and quickly clean up any mess they may have made. Even these short sessions of being observed and/or handled teach the animal that nothing bad will happen.

I don't believe in doing a whole lot more then that. When I weigh them or make pictures, they get handled longer. But nope, I don't take them out every day and just handle them to tame them. I feel that happens all on its own just by doing regular maintenance and getting them used to my presence. Once they are older, eating well and well established I take them out just to "admire" them, hence they get handled some.

I've had only a couple that were hissers/snappers and ultimately, they turned into the most fun snakes to work with. They quickly got over the attitude, yet they ate the fastest and "know no fear". The one with the most attitude happened to turn out the most curious, non-stressed during handling and absolutely NO head shyness. I handled him hardly any more then the others, he simply had a few of those "head down and chill out" moments in my hands, and once he realized he isn't getting eaten, that is all it took.

Babies are so much fun ;)

I do believe you can do more harm then good when trying to force a young snake into being tame and doing to much, to soon.