Possibly My First Gravid Ball Python Ever?

I have been putting my 6 year old (apx.) proven Mojave boy in with my 4 year old (apx.) virgin Lesser Platinum girl since around late August/early September. I have been putting him in with her for 3 - 4 days then giving them a break for 10 - 14 days. Prior to putting them in together I had tried palpating her periodically a few times, but I can't say with any certainty whether or not I felt any follicles or not. Anyway, I definitely witnessed a lock on 9/15 then another on 11/08. Whether or not there were other locks, I couldn't say for sure. For perhaps the past 3 to 4 weeks I could have swore that she had the "glow" that I have read about. She just had a really shiny look to her and she hadn't shed for a long time. Now, she has been in shed for about the past 3 or 4 days and she's looking pretty plump. I haven't witnessed her laying on her back or wrapping her water dish or anything, though. But, if I understand correctly, female Ball Pythons will go into a pre-lay shed around 2 - 3 weeks after they have become gravid, right? If so, the lock I witnessed on 11/08 would fit the time frame perfectly...

What do you guys think? Could my girl be gravid? I will take some pictures of her right after she sheds...

If you saw a lock on 11/08 this is not a pre-lay shed.....pre-lay shed occurs 2 weeks after ovulation, when a female ovulates she no longer locks.

Where is your female currently has she been residing on the cool side at all, has she moved back on the warm side

Your timeline is very short for follicle growth, ovi, and pre-lay.

Oh, okay... Pre-lay shed two weeks after ovulation... Gotcha! Since she has been in shed she seems to be mostly hanging around on the warm side. Before she went in shed she was sorta all over, but I would say, still mostly on the warm side... The boy is due to go back in with her and he is definitely ready for her! He is cruising around all over the place like he's trying to escape... lol I suspect I should probably wait until after she sheds to put him back in with her, huh?

Has she been spending any time at all on the cool side since you have started?

You can pair while in shed but there is really no reason to pair a female more than once a month.

Before going into shed she spent her fair share of time on the cool side, I guess. I wouldn't say she was hanging there or anything, though. Normally, she will just sorta be in various locations, I guess you would say... Before I started putting them together there there was a point where I would catch her wrapping her water dish. I should have put them together then, but it wasn't for awhile after that.

Another breeder here at the forum had advised me to put them on a 3 days in/14 days out breeding schedule... You don't agree with that?

I have been breeding for a decade now and I can tell you that 2 days, once a month is sufficient.

It's about reading your animals and pair when the moment is favorable not about frequency.

I can definitely tell the boy is ready to go... But, other than palpating and knowing for sure the girl has follicles and how large they are what other ways are there to tell when the moment is favorable for the female? Prior to going into shed, she was cruising around all over the place and looking out the front of her tub almost as much as the boy. Is that a sign that females are ready to go, too?

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

I can definitely tell the boy is ready to go... But, other than palpating and knowing for sure the girl has follicles and how large they are what other ways are there to tell when the moment is favorable for the female? Prior to going into shed, she was cruising around all over the place and looking out the front of her tub almost as much as the boy. Is that a sign that females are ready to go, too?

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You want to pair after a shed, most importantly you want to use the whether at your advantage pairing during low pressure, rain, storms, snow.

Generally speaking for my proven females I don't even start pairing before they move to the cool side which means they start to develop follicles, first timer I will introduce the male a little before to stimulate them which might mean two pairing in a month instead of one until they start moving to the cool end.

As far as signs and what to look for this will help you http://ballpython.ca/breeding/

Little secret I have successful seasons and never palpate or use a ultrasound machine ;)

Thanks, Deborah. That is really good information on that page. A couple of the things they mention really have me wondering... As I mentioned, I could have swore she had the "glow" for a couple of weeks or so prior to going into shed a few days ago. Since she has been in shed she has been laying in a "perfect coil" on the warm side 24/7. It's making me wonder if maybe she just didn't have a pre-lay shed (if she is gravid) and just happens to be shedding now? It's definitely possible that there could have been other locks that I didn't catch. I'll just have to wait and see what happens... I never lowered my night time temperatures, because a lot of people say they have successful breeding not doing it. But, I think i'm going to go ahead and lower my night time temperatures starting tonight. I'm going to let her finish shedding then stick the male back in with her for a couple days and see what happens...

Actually, I decided against lowering the night time temperatures. I don't feel that running the risk of RIs and digestive problems is worth it and a lot of the results breeders, who lower night time temperatures are getting versus results breeders, who don't are getting do not seem very significant. Besides, the ambient temperature in my snake room is naturally lower during the winter months (a steady 75 degrees) than it is during the summer (75 - 83 degrees). I think that should be more than sufficient...

Just an update on these lovers... The girl had a nice full shed and emptied out shortly after my last post on 11/25. I examined her and she is looking great, but doesn't appear to have any bulging and I couldn't feel anything in her. After I stuck her back in she was very active and looking out the front of her tub a lot. I stuck the boy back in with her and he immediately began courting her. I witnessed another lock around 5:00 AM this morning and they are still locked up. Hopefully the timing was right this time! :)

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

Just an update on these lovers... The girl had a nice full shed and emptied out shortly after my last post on 11/25. I examined her and she is looking great, but doesn't appear to have any bulging and I couldn't feel anything in her. After I stuck her back in she was very active and looking out the front of her tub a lot. I stuck the boy back in with her and he immediately began courting her. I witnessed another lock around 5:00 AM this morning and they are still locked up. Hopefully the timing was right this time! :)

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Dont get disappointed just because you don’t get eggs right away, it can take a long time for the female to build and it doesn’t sound like you know where she is at in the building process. My first experience I had locks every month for around 8 months before I got eggs, I started around this time last year and didn’t get my eggs until May. Just keep pairing once a month and continue to feed her weekly if she’ll take it. She’ll build and eventually you should get a nice healthy clutch, sometimes you just have to be patient though. Good luck.

Yeah... This is her first time and mine as well. Maybe I should enroll us in Lamaze classes, huh? lol An ultrasound machine would sure make the process a lot easier...

Once again, there is some "not so wild n' crazy" snakey poo lovin' going on in my snake room... lol So, now I have witnessed locks on 9/15, 11/08, 11/27 and 12/13... Cross your fingers for me! :)

So, these guys were locked up for a whole day on 12/13 then I separated them again... The female then spent the whole next 3 days coiled up on the cool side and now she's on the hot side. Any idea what that could mean?

This girl is still spending most of her time on the cool side... No one knows what this means?

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

This girl is still spending most of her time on the cool side... No one knows what this means?

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have you reviewed this page that Deborah linked for you earlier? http://ballpython.ca/breeding/
Hanging out on the cool end is usually when they are building.
(Or her warm end is too warm but I assume that's not the case) :)

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

This girl is still spending most of her time on the cool side... No one knows what this means?

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It probably means she has not ovulated yet and is still just building. After she ovulates she will not be interested in the male anymore and will start hanging out on the warm side to start cooking the eggs. As said before, building can take a long time, be patient. Just continue to introduce the male once a month and keep an eye on her. If you witness an ovy or notice she’s on the warm side then your probably getting closer but for now you may have a while to wait still.

Cool... Thanks you guys. That's what I was hoping! :) Maybe next time they lock she will go...

Well... These two are still goin' at it like rabbits... lol Last time they were locked up for 3 days straight! :O I just stuck him back in with her last night and I decided to take a couple quick pics of them locked up this time. Cindy Lou is doing GREAT! Since I put her on live rats when I started breeding these two, she has shot up from 1,661 grams to 2,400 grams!

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ger-locked.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...r-locked-2.jpg

Maybe they just like "fun time" and have no interest in pro-creating, LOL!!

I think its going to happen, just have to be patient. Its a looooooong process...even longer when one is anxiously waiting for SOMETHING to happen ;)

At least someone is having some "fun time" in this house lately! LOL!

So, I have been breeding these two since 9/17 and I have been witnessing locks consistently every 14 days for 3 day intervals all the way up until 4/04, which was the last lock I witnessed. I have put him back in with her 3 times since then and they don't seem to be locking anymore. Her last shed was on 4/26 and though she has packed on A LOT of weight from consistently eating a small to medium size rat every 7 days I have never noticed any obvious signs of ovulation or "glowing". She has shown obvious consistent signs of building pretty much throughout this whole time frame. Though, I still can't say for sure whether or not I feel anything inside of her when I try to palpitate her. The male had been on a hunger strike pretty much all winter and lost a lot of weight, but he finally started eating every 7 days again maybe 3 weeks ago...

So, what do you guys think? Is she just not going to go this year? Could she be gravid since they stopped locking? Should I be concerned about the possibility of one of these snakes being infertile? Should I keep putting him in with her or stop?

Does anyone have any advice about this?

Nothing wrong with keeping up the pairing once a month. If they don't lock, that's fine. My first clutch took 10 months from the first time I introduced a male until eggs were laid. I also couldn't really tell my progress and was surprised when I came in to find 6 perfect eggs in there. Got to give it time :)

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Originally Posted by treaux

Nothing wrong with keeping up the pairing once a month. If they don't lock, that's fine. My first clutch took 10 months from the first time I introduced a male until eggs were laid. I also couldn't really tell my progress and was surprised when I came in to find 6 perfect eggs in there. Got to give it time :)

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I agree and I think with time we get better at being able to 'read' the female and see the signs.
My first BP pairing, started pairing and seeing locks 12/7/15, continued pairing and locks, bowl wrapping, etc, until she finally laid eggs 9/13/16.

Hang in there!