My First Retics - Purple Albino Motley + Purple Albino Golden Child (25% Kalatoas)

Well... I have decided to put a deposit down on a stunning pair of 2017 25% Kalatoa SD Retics...

Male Purple Motley Albino
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ple-Motley.jpg

Female Purple Albino Golden Child
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...lden-Child.jpg

According to the breeder, the Purple Motley boy's parents were a 7' - 8' female Lavender Motley Mainland crossed with a 50% Kalatoa SD Albino Golden Child male (not sure about the father's size). the Purple Albino Golden Child girl's parents were a 9' female 50% Kalatoa SD Tiger crossed with a 10' male Albino Golden Child Mainland. I'm just going to be extremely careful with prey sizes and feeding schedules throughout all of their stages of growth (and breeding cycles when the time comes) and hope that only 25% Kalatoa is enough SD blood to keep them from becoming 14' + giants... lol My goal will be to have them top out between 8' and 10'. Do you guys think I stand a pretty good chance?

Either way, I am definitely loving the odds that I will have with these beauties in the future! So, I think I made a pretty good choice... :)
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...Child-Odds.jpg

very pretty lil noodles! congrats!

Our 87.5% Kalatoa SD are 7' (male) and 10' (female) so I suspect yours will get larger than 10'. I could be wrong but just be prepared.

Hard to say about the size but i would guess they will be close to the parents size.

But like i said, anything is possible. If you go back and reread the comparison i did with mine and Gio's retics vs our complete left and right wing feeding schedules etc.

And if that is the Morph Market genetic calculator, i wouldnt trust it lol. They have changed it since i was messing with it and another member on the SD breeders group was messing with it too. It was showing that if you bred a lavender to a white, you got het lavender....there is no such thing as a het lavender lol. It's 100% visual if it is there. Kind of like hypo in boas but its recessive, not dominant like in boas.

They might have kind of fixed it though as they removed the option for 'white phase albino'. Now there is just the option for albino(white phase) which seems to be working. Still not sure i would trust that thing 100% lol.

And another example is Jacobs pure kalatoa female who is 9'

Thanks you guys. I'm really excited about these guys. Aside from hopefully producing some Moonglow Boas in the future, this pairing is definitely going to be my most exciting breeding project. BUT, could you guys please at least lie to me for the next 4 years and keep promising me that they aren't going to become 100 pound giants??? lol :P Seriously, though... If these guys had 50% Kalatoa parents that ranged from 7' - 9' that tells me that they will probably be larger than their parents since they're only 25%... I'm gambling on Jay brewer being right about controlling their size through prey size and feeding schedules. The breeder i'm getting them from said, "If you feed them a lot they could reach 10', but if you just feed them every 2 weeks then every 4 weeks when they are a couple years old they will only reach 6' - 7' and just a few pounds." Jay brewer says to keep Retics small, feed them small prey that is no larger than the fattest part of their body once every 7 days then cut them back to every 10 days. What do you guys think?

I'm going to hope your breeder was right for your sake in saying that you can keep them under 10'. Granted I did feed my kalatoa, Phyllis, every 5-7 days as a hatchling but she grew like a weed and, as sauzo said, she's around 9' now. Pure kalatoa from wild caught imported parents that were ~6' and ~7'. Here she is today in the corner of her T25 and in a 100qt tub from lowes that's about 35" long.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7ce8a8d7d6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b864f8a4ab.jpg
Close to the girth of my forearm. Granted I'm a small dude, 5' 4", but she's a beast of a super dwarf and 100% SD at that.


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Wow... I didn't know the pure Kalatoas got that big... What did I get myself into? lol One thing i'm a little confused about is, since crossing a 50% SD with a mainland produces 25% SDs and i'll be crossing a 25% with a 25%, will the offspring be 25% or 50%?

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

Thanks you guys. I'm really excited about these guys. Aside from hopefully producing some Moonglow Boas in the future, this pairing is definitely going to be my most exciting breeding project. BUT, could you guys please at least lie to me for the next 4 years and keep promising me that they aren't going to become 100 pound giants??? lol :P Seriously, though... If these guys had 50% Kalatoa parents that ranged from 7' - 9' that tells me that they will probably be larger than their parents since they're only 25%... I'm gambling on Jay brewer being right about controlling their size through prey size and feeding schedules. The breeder i'm getting them from said, "If you feed them a lot they could reach 10', but if you just feed them every 2 weeks then every 4 weeks when they are a couple years old they will only reach 6' - 7' and just a few pounds." Jay brewer says to keep Retics small, feed them small prey that is no larger than the fattest part of their body once every 7 days then cut them back to every 10 days. What do you guys think?

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People will tell you all day long that the amount of feeding will control the snake growth. This is only true if the snake cooperates. Some retics will push violently when they want food. So you will have no choice but to feed them or take them to the vet every other week to deal with broken teeth, split lips, scrapes etc.

Some dont push, some do. Phyllis and Caesar are/were BIG pushers and Jacob will agree with this, they both have done a fair amount of damage to themselves. Gene and Wallace are not pushers so for them, the long feeding schedule will probably work.

Like mentioned above, plan for a 10' snake and you wont end up with a bad surprise and only a good surprise maybe.

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

Wow... I didn't know the pure Kalatoas got that big... What did I get myself into? lol One thing i'm a little confused about is, since crossing a 50% SD with a mainland produces 25% SDs and i'll be crossing a 25% with a 25%, will the offspring be 25% or 50%?

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Add parent percentages together and divide by two. Offspring get half of either parent's percent, so your prospective offspring will be 25% SD.
In the wild they stay smaller because their food supply is less steady, they live on islands where migratory birds make up a large portion of their diet. Feast and famine. In captivity they are spoiled with food and have the potential to get larger. A breeder buddy of mine has pure SD females, 7 years old, around 8-9' at least and weigh a sturdy 20lbs. Even pure SD females are by no means a small snake. Just small in comparison to their mainland counterparts


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And like i mentioned, you cant just say 'this snake will be X size'. There is too many factors which cant be calculated. Feeding and schedule can be, the types of genes you use can be. But at the end of the day, it is up to mother nature as to what genes the snake in question utilizes the most. You got for high percent SD and dwarf to stack the deck in your favor but again, it is a roll of mother natures wheel at the end. And people say 'oh, get a dwarf, they stay small'. Bzzzt, wrong. Dwarfs can get 13-14'. They are smaller than mainlands but they arent a corn snake. Like i said, plan for a 10' snake and you shouldnt be in for any rude awakenings...of course i could be wrong lol.

At the moment the only space I have available are 28 qt. and 41 qt. racks... I'm thinking these guys will probably be alright in the 28 qt. rack for a few months then in the 41 qt. rack for at least another few months. What do you guys think? Once they outgrow the 41 qt. rack I won't have much of a choice other than to bump them right up into 6' x 3' enclosures, I guess... Funny thing is, when I was talking to the breeder and telling him how 6' x 3' enclosures are the largest size I want to get into, he acted like I was crazy for thinking I would need anything that big. He said, "No no no... You won't need anything that big for these guys. I keep most of mine in 4' x 2' enclosures"... :confusd: There is no doubt that these guys won't be any smaller than 8' to 10' long (i'm guessing they'll end up more like 10' - 12') and there is no way I would ever keep even an 8' snake in a 4' x 2' enclosure...

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

People will tell you all day long that the amount of feeding will control the snake growth. This is only true if the snake cooperates. Some retics will push violently when they want food. So you will have no choice but to feed them or take them to the vet every other week to deal with broken teeth, split lips, scrapes etc.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Some dont push, some do. Phyllis and Caesar are/were BIG pushers and Jacob will agree with this, they both have done a fair amount of damage to themselves. Gene and Wallace are not pushers so for them, the long feeding schedule will probably work.

Like mentioned above, plan for a 10' snake and you wont end up with a bad surprise and only a good surprise maybe.

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Yes, I have read a lot about how Retics will push. That is where I can definitely see there being a problem with trying to control their size with smaller prey sizes and longer periods in between feedings. I'm going to place my bet right now and wager that this female will end up being around 12' and the male around 10'. 12' wouldn't be too bad for a Retic, just so I can keep her more on the thin side...

Wow, I love reticulated pythons so much, my favorite species on the earth perhaps! I just don't have the space. 6' x 3' cage? Are you serious? You are going to need a whole room caged off for these bad mofos. :cool: I have heard that they like to get exercise and roam around, and with luck, will probably get longer than 10 feet! :D

I live by the school of thought that a snake's tub/enclosure's length + width should not equal any less than the length of the snake. BUT, there obviously has to be a cutoff point somewhere with large snakes like Retics, Anacondas, Burmese and some Boas. Taking the above rule of thumb into consideration, a 6' x 3' enclosure SHOULD really only be suitable for snakes up to 9'. I'm just going to have to wait and see how these guys grow and make some decisions when the time comes for me to start building large enclosures. Really, it wouldn't be any more trouble or much more expense to just build 8' x 3' enclosures than it would be to build 6' x 3' enclosures. I will have the room for that once I end up moving my snake room into my dining room. My current snake room is only about 8 1/2' x 11'. I could have them in there, but it would be pretty tight with my other racks...

But, yeah... I'm crazy about Retics, too! In my opinion, no other species of constrictor snakes even come close to the markings and coloration of Retics, regardless of their genes. And, from what I understand, Retics colors just continue to get brighter and brighter with age, where most other species darken up, fade and become dingy...

Those are some good looking snakes you have there! I wouldn't worry about the size too much, because they shouldn't be giants. They may get longer than you want, but their weight should make them manageable. Jay at Prehistoric have kept mainlands at a reasonable size with modest feeding, it's no guarantee but the odds are on your side. Good luck!

So, I was talking to the breeder i'm getting these guys from yesterday and I asked him if he would recommend that I keep these guys in my 28 qt. rack or my 41 qt. rack and how long he suspects it might take them to outgrow my 41 qt. rack... His response was, "They will be plenty fine in 28 qt. for another year"... That would make them around 20 months old in 28 qt. tubs. Does that sound right to you guys? Judging by the photos, these guys are already pretty long at only about 8 months old...

One problem that occurred to me is keeping these guys in the same room with all of my other snakes. It doesn't seem like having these guys in a room filled with rat smell for a whole day every week while rats are sitting in there thawing and while i'm heating up rats with a heat gun and feeding my other snakes is going to help my cause. I can totally see the smell of the room turning them into ravenous pushing beasts every week and making it very difficult to spread their feeding schedules out. I really don't want to have to control the climate in two separate rooms of my house, so i'm not sure how I will handle that. The only feasible solution I can think of would be to remove them from the room for the whole day on feeding day every week. But, then I would have the problem of how do I keep their temperatures and humidity up and keep them from getting RIs while they're removed from the snake room? Especially during the winter months? My house is never more than 70 - 72 degrees in the summer or winter and it gets very dry in the winter... What do you guys think?

Many times, breeders will tell you what you want to hear (or what they think you want to hear) to make a sale. It is sad, but sometimes true. Also, some people keep snakes in much smaller quarters than I personally would. I would evaluate their needs when you get them... You could ask the breeder to measure their length to give you an idea of what to expect when they arrive so you know what you want to do for enclosures.

I've heard both good and bad things about Jay and how he keeps his animals. He has breeding successes, but I've heard that some of the livestock is in not-so-good shape (from people that have visited the shop). I have doubts about being able to control something that should be determined by genes with feeding..Especially in a species that is as ravenous and likely to do harm to themselves, as retics. I would just be prepared in case they don't tolerate your feeding schedule and find what works for them and keeps them from messing up their faces.

I would quarantine them away from your other snakes anyway, for at least 1-3 months... I usually do a 1 month quarantine, but some recommend 3. Different room, preferably as far away from your other snakes as possible.

For quarantine (and permanent housing if you want to have them out of your snake room), I would use stand alone tubs. You would need a heat mat or heat tape and a t-stat to run it, the tub, a thermometer, and something to secure the tub lids (luggage straps, bungee cords, or bulldog clips work well). For ambient temps, when I used tubs, I got a lamp stand with a CHE on it and suspended above the tubs, I adjusted it (with a dimmer switch) until the ambient temps were correct in the tubs. It is very important to not let it rest on or touch the tub lid, so suspending at least 3-4" above the lid is a must. You might also consider an oil-filled space heater on a t-stat to keep the ambient room temp from dropping too low (I use this for my reptile room and keep the temp at at least 75f).

You could actually go out and get a couple of IRIS Chiristmas tree tubs right now (they are seasonal) and use those to house them for a while. They are about the footprint of a 4'x2' cage with about 20" in height. I have never kept retics, so not sure on the growth rate.

I house all my snakes in the room with my live (pet) rats...Including boas with pretty good feeding responses. They get used to the normal smells and only get excited when there is prey thawing out. In your case, since the prey would only be around on feeding nights, it might effect them and cause more pushing.

Good luck with your 2 new guys! I've always loved how retics look, especially the albinos, so I'm envious lol. maybe one day when they have 95%SD albino goldenchilds, I'll make the leap, but I don't want an adult that will get over 8', so I'll be waiting for a long time I think lol.

Oh your noodles collection just gets better and better! Gorgeous bloods now to magnificent reticulated pythons wow lucky duck :P Good luck with the new fabulous snake babies make sure to show them off ever chance you get

Those are all great ideas that definitely gave me some feasible options to consider! Thanks a lot! :) I have to admit, I have been guilty of not quarantining new animals as they come in up 'til this point and just hoping for the best. So far, I have been extremely lucky to not have any mite or parasite infestations! Honestly, it would just be somewhat difficult and a lot more costly (energy and equipment-wise) to control ambient temperatures and humidity in an additional room. Especially during the winter months... But, I definitely need to figure something out. The idea of directing a heat light on the tubs to control their ambient temperatures seems easy enough, though. I'm just not sure what to do about the humidity. I have seen the humidity levels drop as low as 16% - 19% in my house during the most arid winter months, which isn't even healthy for a human's respiratory system! I have a 9 gallon high output humidifier in my snake room, which so far, is keeping the ambient humidity in my snake room between 50% and 56% and my oil space heater keeps the ambient temperature of the room at a perfect 75 degrees. So, my fusssy ssslithery friendsss are niccce and cozy and everything is jussst ssso for them in the sssnake room... lol My furnace actually has a built in humidifier system, but I need to get a new pump for it. That should only cost me around $30.00 or $40.00 to replace, so I think I need to be getting on that once and for all. As for handling the new Retics, I would probably want to just carry their tubs up to the snake room before taking them out, so they aren't catching any drafts while I have them out. I already plan on building custom 6' x 3' enclosures for these guys when the time comes, so ultimately, I think these guys will probably become display animals in my living room or dining room.

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Originally Posted by artgecko

Many times, breeders will tell you what you want to hear (or what they think you want to hear) to make a sale. It is sad, but sometimes true. Also, some people keep snakes in much smaller quarters than I personally would. I would evaluate their needs when you get them... You could ask the breeder to measure their length to give you an idea of what to expect when they arrive so you know what you want to do for enclosures.

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There is no doubt that there are breeders out there, who will just tell you everything you wanna hear in order to make the sale. Common sense, logic and research are all telling me that these two animals are going to top out a lot larger and need much larger enclosures than what the breeder is letting on. As I keep saying, I would definitely like them to top out between 8' and 10', but my guess is they will end up between 10' and 12', which I could still live with since I am confident that i'll at least be able to keep them more on the slender side.

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Originally Posted by artgecko

I've heard both good and bad things about Jay and how he keeps his animals. He has breeding successes, but I've heard that some of the livestock is in not-so-good shape (from people that have visited the shop). I have doubts about being able to control something that should be determined by genes with feeding..Especially in a species that is as ravenous and likely to do harm to themselves, as retics. I would just be prepared in case they don't tolerate your feeding schedule and find what works for them and keeps them from messing up their faces.

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In my opinion, he is one of the breeders out there that is waaay overly mass producing Retics! There is no way all of those thousands of Retics he's hatching are going to responsible collectors/breeders even if he is exporting a huge percentage of them to other countries. Seriously, where are all of those soon to be giant snakes going? I've never personally known one person that had a pet Retic... Honestly, I wouldn't doubt if a lot of them get sold off to snake farms to be raised up for their meat and skin. Personally, I don't care to purchase snakes from big, "name brand" breeders at big, name brand prices, anyway. Aside from the fact that their prices are bloated, they have way too many animals to possibly be giving any of them the kind of proper care, time and attention they need. And, I completely disagree with keeping giant snakes cooped up in small enclosures. Sure, "they feel more secure" and "spend most of their time coiled up anyway" and yada yada yada... But, in the wild they have whole countries and islands to stretch out, roam around and hunt in...

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Originally Posted by C.Marie

Oh your noodles collection just gets better and better! Gorgeous bloods now to magnificent reticulated pythons wow lucky duck :P Good luck with the new fabulous snake babies make sure to show them off ever chance you get

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Thank you for your kind words, Marie. I appreciate it! :) Yes, my collection has definitely grown a bit since we last talked on here... lol I just need to get one more (somewhat costly) male Boa sometime within the next couple of years to complete all of the pairings I originally set out to work with then I have to stop myself! lol I might continue to pick up a must have Ball Python or two here and there and possibly one more specific pair of Boas, but other than that, I have to start preparing for all of the babies and holdbacks I will (hopefully) be producing over the next 2 years and a rat breeding program... And, not to mention, hopefully recovering some of my money! lol

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

So, I was talking to the breeder i'm getting these guys from yesterday and I asked him if he would recommend that I keep these guys in my 28 qt. rack or my 41 qt. rack and how long he suspects it might take them to outgrow my 41 qt. rack... His response was, "They will be plenty fine in 28 qt. for another year"... That would make them around 20 months old in 28 qt. tubs. Does that sound right to you guys? Judging by the photos, these guys are already pretty long at only about 8 months old...

One problem that occurred to me is keeping these guys in the same room with all of my other snakes. It doesn't seem like having these guys in a room filled with rat smell for a whole day every week while rats are sitting in there thawing and while i'm heating up rats with a heat gun and feeding my other snakes is going to help my cause. I can totally see the smell of the room turning them into ravenous pushing beasts every week and making it very difficult to spread their feeding schedules out. I really don't want to have to control the climate in two separate rooms of my house, so i'm not sure how I will handle that. The only feasible solution I can think of would be to remove them from the room for the whole day on feeding day every week. But, then I would have the problem of how do I keep their temperatures and humidity up and keep them from getting RIs while they're removed from the snake room? Especially during the winter months? My house is never more than 70 - 72 degrees in the summer or winter and it gets very dry in the winter... What do you guys think?

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A breeders mindset on caging is going to be different than a pet keepers mindset. Sure they might be fine in that small of tub but then again a 6 foot boa can live in a 4x2 cage as well. I would do that to neither snake. I personally dont agree and i think you are going to be looking for a lot bigger in a lot shorter of time. Like i've said, Caesar is a 37.5% SD and 31.5% dwarf and hes almost 19 months old and he is just over 7 feet. My advice is keep them in there until you think they are too small for them but i would plan 6 months or so.

As for keeping them in the room with your other snakes and them smell of rats, it will be fine. I keep Caesar is the same room as everyone else and all the snakes get fed on different schedules. Sure they all perk up when they smell food but once the smell is gone, they go back to being disappointed lol and then continue on. Your retics wont push from just the smell of a rat. They will push if hungry regardless if they smell food or not. They want to find food. They also can push if its too hot, too wet, they took a poop and are trying to get away from it, want a girlfriend etc. Lots of reasons for pushing, not just for food but that is a pretty common one.

Of course make sure you quarantine before putting them in the same room as the other snakes or at least treat the cages they are going into with some PAM as a preventative.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Sure they all perk up when they smell food but once the smell is gone, they go back to being disappointed lol and then continue on.

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LOL! That is hilarious! And, I can already relate to it! I just recently decided to cut one of my Boas feedings back to every other week, because he is starting to get a little pudge and I feel awful on the weeks he doesn't get fed! He just stares out the front of his tub and strikes at me every time I pass by. He looks at me as if he's saying, "Me nexxxt... Sssimon isss Nexxxt..." And, yes, I actually do say that out loud in Simon's sssnake voice! lol But, you're right... After a little time passes he seems to just go on about his business...

Thank you for your valuable insight as always, Sauzo. It's reassuring to hear that the rat smell one day a week hopefully won't cause them to wear their faces down to the bone. I guess all I can do is wait and see how these guys act once I get them...

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

LOL! That is hilarious! And, I can already relate to it! I just recently decided to cut one of my Boas feedings back to every other week, because he is starting to get a little pudge and I feel awful on the weeks he doesn't get fed! He just stares out the front of his tub and strikes at me every time I pass by. He looks at me as if he's saying, "Me nexxxt... Sssimon isss Nexxxt..." And, yes, I actually do say that out loud in Simon's sssnake voice! lol But, you're right... After a little time passes he seems to just go on about his business...

Thank you for your valuable insight as always, Sauzo. It's reassuring to hear that the rat smell one day a week hopefully won't cause them to wear their faces down to the bone. I guess all I can do is wait and see how these guys act once I get them...

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Haha np. Yeah, i just throw everything into a big dishtub i got in the basement bathroom which is right next to the snakes. They all perk up and i picture Rango saying the 'me next' lol. Him and Gina are the two who basically glue their faces to the glass door waiting for dinner. The rest form the 'S' and sit there and Vicky being sunglow gets the HUGE pupil lol. Actually Caesar is the only one who really doesnt come out. He will though if you open the door. I think he learned that the smell of rat alone doesnt mean dinner. The smell combined with a door sliding open though and he is out of the hide like a bullet haha. Luckily it isnt like he was as a baby, he doesnt fly to the front of the cage. He just pops out and sits there.

Well, the ransom has been paid in full and my gorgeous new babies are longer being held hostage! lol Now, I just have to wait for some warmer temperatures again, so they can be shipped... :(

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

Thank you for your kind words, Marie. I appreciate it! :) Yes, my collection has definitely grown a bit since we last talked on here... lol I just need to get one more (somewhat costly) male Boa sometime within the next couple of years to complete all of the pairings I originally set out to work with then I have to stop myself! lol I might continue to pick up a must have Ball Python or two here and there and possibly one more specific pair of Boas, but other than that, I have to start preparing for all of the babies and holdbacks I will (hopefully) be producing over the next 2 years and a rat breeding program... And, not to mention, hopefully recovering some of my money! lol

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I know you will all your noodles are breathtaking and bond to have fabulous babies good luck and happy holidays :P

I'm still impatiently waiting for some warmer weather, so these guys can be shipped, but i've already been kicking some ideas around for names for these guys... For the male Motley, I think i've already decided on "Sixx", as in Nikki Sixx from Motley Crue. What do you guys think? Nothing has really come to me for the female yet. Do you guys have any clever ideas? Hint: I have this whole "Sss" theme thing going for most of my snake's names... lol