Rodent issues

Ok, so I bought a fancy male mouse to replace my boring white mouse. I thought that since it was a male, the female mice wouldn't attack him since I removed the albino male.

Wrong. They massacred him.. ate his brains out and buried him in the bedding.

So just now, I look in one of my rat cages and see that Sniper (my fave dumbo breeder rat) dead, and one of his male babies dead too! The baby was a runt that I hand fed when it was a pinky and he was doing great. He was a month old now at least..

The female that was with them was fine. I'm keeping her alone for a couple of days to make sure she's ok, then I'll pick her a new mate, but geez!

As if that wasn't enough, my female who just had 11 babies, some of which would be rex (my first rex litter, I was so excited!) killed them all.. or something! Absolutely no trace. No blood, no severed limbs, no nothing.

I'm puzzled and frustrated.

wow seems like you got rodent problems lol, maybe its somethin goin aroundhttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif j/k i dont know anything about how to raise rodents so i cant help you... sorry.

I've found...and read that when introducing new mates its better to put the female in an established tub (or whatever enclosure you use) that a male has already been in for some time. Female rodents can become very aggressive when new stock is introduced into "thier" territory. This is a real big issue with gerbils, people say it isn't for rats and mice but it still can be as you have found out.

Interesting.. ok.

I have had no problems like this with my rats. They scuffle a bit when I introduce new rats, but they're just figuring out the hierarchy, not trying to kill eachother.

Hey Shel, I was just thinking about that momma rat and her 11 babies. Some animals when presented with a large litter will cull some to allow the others a better chance at survival. I wonder if she started in on the weakest babies and just never stopped? Has she been successful before with a smaller litter or were these her first babies?


~~Jo~~

This was her second litter. She massacred the first one too.. she did feed this second litter though, I saw milk bands on all of them.

If she does it again, I'll send her to the freezer.

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Originally Posted by Shelby

This was her second litter. She massacred the first one too.. she did feed this second litter though, I saw milk bands on all of them.

If she does it again, I'll send her to the freezer.

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Chances are, she will do it again. Best thing to do is retire her from breeding in whichever way you feel is best and replace her. IME, rats who do this more than once to begin with, will continue. Some rats do not make good mothers at all. I cant tell you exactly why she is doing that, because it could be just about anything triggering her to do this. Dont get too discouraged, really , cannabalism is not that common in rats IME, in fact, when I was breeding rats and mice, I saw that type of behavior in mice more often. But do look at your housing for your rats also, the biggest reason I can give you for rats to act this way is b/c of lack of room, sufficient food/water, lack of privacy or feelings of stress due to too many housed together or too close but in separate cages (females can be territorial) within view of eachother.... however, there is always that trigger you will never figure out if all else is fine.

When introducing new male mice, put your male in his own enclosure, and introduce females into his territory after he has lived in it for at least a week to get his scent in there, keeps the girls from being territorial (girls are territorial, and can be very violent). Also, if it happens your females are already pregnant by another male, and put with a different male, he will kill any babies that are not his, esp. when living communally. Same for rats, they will kill babies that are not thiers.

Was your dumbo male and his baby tore up or anything? If so, could be that the female that was with them did it, or, if he was old enough to be sexually mature (as young as 6 weeks sometimes) the 2 guys faught over breeding rights and killed eachother, this may sound silly, but rats or mice dont care if another is related to them, all they care about is being able to have breeding rights. If the males were not tore up, it boggles my mind as to whats up b/c a female was left alive.. is she ok now?

This demonstrates why I have no love for rodents. They are really digusting and dirty. I can't speak for pet rats but how much better could they be? School me...

Since I have no other female rats to replace the bad one, I will give her one more chance for now.

About a week before the massacre I moved my rats into lab style cages. They are nice size, and only the one pair was living in it. They are in no view of other rats. So, who knows.

The dumbo male/baby were in perfect condition. The baby was about 2.5" nose to butt.. itty bitty.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

This demonstrates why I have no love for rodents. They are really digusting and dirty. I can't speak for pet rats but how much better could they be? School me...

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Actually, pet rats are awesome. I prefer males to females, cause males tend to be more laid back, while females seem to want to be on the go more, but there is always the exception with females also, not all are like that. Mice are nasty~ period.... more than anything, mice smell worse than rats, not sure why, they just do. With rats, males tend to have a bit of a stronger smell than females... but really, not bad at all if their cage is kept clean. Rats are smart and very friendly. If you even decide to try to have a rat as a pet, best advice I can give you, DO NOT buy one from a pet store that does not differentiate between feeders and pets. There is a huge difference between a feeder rodent and a pet. The pets are bred for thier temperment and markings/colors/type, they are socialized very early, therefor, they see you, as thier friend and make wonderful pets. When you buy from a pet store, you really must know for sure that they do differentiate between the 2, and alot of times, thats hard to know for sure since pet shops are not all that honest. Most pet shops buy thier rats from suppliers who are selling them for pet/feeders, they are not bred for temperment or anything else, and more often than not, end up making cruddy pets who have nothing but health problems like cancer, tumors and etc.; they are just a money maker (commodity/product), and most of the time, are inbred really badly. However, if you want a really great pet rat, find a breeder, they are all over the US and other places such as Canada,etc. Breeders are the best place to get pet rats, then you are able to be sure that they are well socialized and not inbred. You see less health issues when buying from a reputable breeder because they have higher standards and dont breed rodents with apparent health issues, they also know thier lineage. Rats are super intelligent and sweet. We had over 40 at any given time when I had my rattery in full swing, they were pets first and foremost, and breeders secondly. They can learn thier names, learn to do things.... do a google search for info on pet rats, you will find lots of info.

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Originally Posted by Jeanne

Actually, pet rats are awesome. I prefer males to females, cause males tend to be more laid back, while females seem to want to be on the go more, but there is always the exception with females also, not all are like that. Mice are nasty~ period.... more than anything, mice smell worse than rats, not sure why, they just do. With rats, males tend to have a bit of a stronger smell than females... but really, not bad at all if their cage is kept clean. Rats are smart and very friendly. If you even decide to try to have a rat as a pet, best advice I can give you, DO NOT buy one from a pet store that does not differentiate between feeders and pets. There is a huge difference between a feeder rodent and a pet. The pets are bred for thier temperment and markings/colors/type, they are socialized very early, therefor, they see you, as thier friend and make wonderful pets. When you buy from a pet store, you really must know for sure that they do differentiate between the 2, and alot of times, thats hard to know for sure since pet shops are not all that honest. Most pet shops buy thier rats from suppliers who are selling them for pet/feeders, they are not bred for temperment or anything else, and more often than not, end up making cruddy pets who have nothing but health problems like cancer, tumors and etc.; they are just a money maker (commodity/product), and most of the time, are inbred really badly. However, if you want a really great pet rat, find a breeder, they are all over the US and other places such as Canada,etc. Breeders are the best place to get pet rats, then you are able to be sure that they are well socialized and not inbred. You see less health issues when buying from a reputable breeder because they have higher standards and dont breed rodents with apparent health issues, they also know thier lineage. Rats are super intelligent and sweet. We had over 40 at any given time when I had my rattery in full swing, they were pets first and foremost, and breeders secondly. They can learn thier names, learn to do things.... do a google search for info on pet rats, you will find lots of info.

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Eh..All sounds great but I dont think ill ever have another rodent pet again. I have had throughout my life; mice, guinea pigs, gerbils, hamsters, rabbits...

They are all nasty in my opinion. Ill stick with my cats and snakes.. Thanks for the great explanation though!!

J

By the way, we currently have a mouse in a little cage because the snake didnt want him at the time and my girlfriend decided he would make a cute pet. He is a disgusting creature and as soon as she tires of him, he'll be dinner for one of the snakes.

im kinda with jglass on this one. although they can be and are good pets they freak me out cuz of there teeth, i just know they have those 2 front teeth and after being bit by a hamster the only time im touching a live rat is for food chain pureposes only:D and my snakes loves em:hungry::chew:

We differeniate between rats for feeders and rats that are pets here Jamie. We have our 4 pet rats which are amazingly great pets...very friendly, personable and little to no smell at all. Then we have the feeder rats which live in the back room and though well cared for (for the time they are here) they don't get names or handled at all.

As far as biting, it's not much different than snakes....don't pick up your pet rat is your hand smells of food. Most rats that are raised as pets are very unlikely to bite (far less than a hamster, mouse or gerbil).



~~Jo~~

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

We differeniate between rats for feeders and rats that are pets here Jamie. We have our 4 pet rats which are amazingly great pets...very friendly, personable and little to no smell at all. Then we have the feeder rats which live in the back room and though well cared for (for the time they are here) they don't get names or handled at all.

As far as biting, it's not much different than snakes....don't pick up your pet rat is your hand smells of food. Most rats that are raised as pets are very unlikely to bite (far less than a hamster, mouse or gerbil).



~~Jo~~

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Jo,

I say, to each his/her own. Its not for me but who am I to say what people can keep as pets. I am sure they are wonderful pets.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Eh..All sounds great but I dont think ill ever have another rodent pet again. I have had throughout my life; mice, guinea pigs, gerbils, hamsters, rabbits...

They are all nasty in my opinion. Ill stick with my cats and snakes.. Thanks for the great explanation though!!

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I will agree.. mice, guinea pigs, gerbils, hamsters and rabbits are stupid, smelly, biting nasty things. Rats are totally different.

Hey I have the sweetest hamster. Poor little thing, getting lumped in with those nasty mice. :rolleyes: She'll take food from your hand and never bites. She is so sweet even with my little monsters, I mean my kids.

Well, every hamster I've met has been a little monster. I had one hanging from my finger by it's teeth.

I think you must just have tasty fingers! :neener:

Umm... I have 15 rats... all pets... Is this too many? :) Considering a breeder friend of mine in Mansfield, TX has over 120 at any given time, I guess I don't have as many as I thought.

I really enjoy my rats. I have 5 hairless(Harry, Emily, Sneezy, Melatonin and Seratonin), two of which have dumbo ears, 1 top-eared powder blue rex(RMAX My Georgia's A Peach), 2 top-eared agouti hooded(Lloyd and Lola), 1 agouti wedge-blazed capped dalmation dumbo(Reggie), 1 black/dark charcoal blazed capped dumbo velveteen rex(Amelia Earhardt), 1 american blue variegated dumbo(RMAX Mistyk Melody), a fawn irish dumbo(male, no name yet), a black wedge-blazed capped dalmation dumbo(Dually-maybe), a mismarked black eyed white(RMAX The Moose Is Loose), and a pearl hairless dumbo(RMAX Wooly Booger-new name needed). WHEW! That was a mouthful :)

They love giving kisses-EVERYWHERE! Licklicklick! Some are even training to be rodentists ;) They will fall asleep on you bruxing and boggling(rat talk for HAPPY/CONTENT).They play wrestle with you and play hide and seek under the covers. They popcorn and just act all-around GOOFY. They get baths, get their nails trimmed, regular vet visits(when needed, of course). I built them their own custom cabinet cage. It's GINORMOUS, 3ftx2ftx4ft and has 4 doors. I lurvs it, so easy to clean and doesn't smell at all. I think my fish smell worse, LoL. They also eat better than our dogs do... Poor things, LoL, so mistreated.

The only downside I've found is that they love to wee on you... Boys and girls alike... piddlepiddlepiddle... But it's not a big deal. I just wipe it off and continue with what I'm doing.

If anyone wants to see pictures of the ratties or of the cage, just let me know... I have plenty, Muahaha :)

I have to chime in! My little black bear hamster is just about the sweetest thing! Very sweet with my babies (3 and 1) and just hangs out on my chest and sleeps. He'll take his little treats and jam them in his cheek pouches till his full up if we let him.


My addendum:

Christie had two pet white mice...NASTY LITTLE BOOGERS!!! One bit me so hard I was gushing blood (at least to my 9 year old memory), but I didn't turn him in cause we didn't want to get in trouble for taking the mice out when the parents were sleeping.

Not all of them are so bad, even I was suprised to like our new little guy (heck, before him I was threatening to feed the two little hamsters my mother bestowed upon my children, which were biting like all get out, to my corns!!!) The new guy is a replacment, and much more liked in my house! :D

^_^ I wanna see the rat piccies!!!

Well years ago I did have a female hamster who was a rather lovely pet though one of the biggest (not fat just huge) hamsters I've personally ever seen. She adored sipping tea with milk and sugar in it and wouldn't leave me be if I had a cup of tea until she got a few drops in a saucer.

It is interesting that a few of us keep rodents as pets and yet are okay with using rodents for feeding purposes. I know a lot of our friends just can't get how we can do this but it's not a major problem for us. Our only upcoming issue will be when our 2 pet female rats have their babies and we will have to decide if we use their offspring for feeders or not. They are also the kid's pets so we have to tread very carefully there as well I'm just not sure if I can feed off their babies myself (I'm a bit of a softie that way).


~~Jo~~

I breed rats, and I will be the first to admit, I mainly breed for feeders only. I do not handle the babies, and when they are weanling-sized, they are fed off to my snakes or whacked and stored in the freezer for later feedings.
But I do make an effort to tame-down the ones I use as breeding stock. I'll pluck a female out of a litter, every so often, based on temperament alone; some of them just naturally seem calmer and easier to grab. I will handle each future mother rat for a few minutes daily and nightly, after feeding time. And of course, I have my two big males, which are the "studs" for the operation, and they are friendly as can be. But it is definately worth it, to get your future breeders used-to people; makes things much more pleasant.
Rats can make super-awesome pets. I have one mother rat, who is tamer than any I have ever seen before. She was raised by a class of school-kids, and she is definately the only true "pet quality" rat I have besides my one male. My other females will let you pick them up, and sniff at your hand without biting, but if they got away onto the floor, you'd never see them again. Whereas, Delphi (the pet one) got out once, and came running right to me in the kitchen!
It is not the animal really, it is how much work a person is willing to invest into it!