Need help and opinions on this hatchling

My turn to ask for help ;)

This hatchling has me stumped.

Mom is a Pastel Lesser, Dad is a Super Blast (Super Pastel Pinstripe)

I have a few Super Pastel hatchlings, but from the getgo THIS one just looked different.

The colors are more of a faded Pastel Lesser color (Super Pastel Lesser?) The black is more faded out and the yellow is softer (more of a highlighter yellow, like the P. Lessers have)

But the pattern reminds me of a Super Pastel. The busy-ness of it.

I know there can be differences in a morph, but the color is so different from all the other Super Pastels.


So what do I have here ??

Super Pastel Lesser ?
Super Pastel ?


Here are some pictures, first one is straight out of the egg. In the picture with the 3 snakes, the one I'm talking about is in the upper right corner. To its left is a Super Pastel and on the bottom is a Pastel Lesser. To see them "side by side".

Thanks for any thoughts and opinions.

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...gs/large/2.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...che2%20_3_.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...che2%20_1_.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...che2%20_2_.jpg

After doing some more google searches, (this time as lesser super pastel) I notice that the "Super" in the pastel lesser CAN create a more busy pattern, and the colors seem the same "faded" black and light highlighter yellow.

So I am leaning towards Super Pastel Lesser, or Lesser Super Pastel (same difference, lol..)

The more I see, the more I'm sure. But I would still like to hear others opinions..

I have never hatched a super pastel, but i would expect more fading on the sides if lesser is present especially in a young baby. The side blushing I would expect to be almost pure yellow, no white.

All that said, the animals are not in front of me and history says your eye is better than mine.

Regardless it is a pretty baby.

i see a Super Pastel only. the Lesser (or a BEL gene) would reduce the pattern specifically more cheerio's or speech bubbles.

I'm thinking super pastel also, only lesser super pastel hatching I've seen the sides were very faded.

That's what threw me off..the pattern. The color is quite different from the Super Pastel...but the pattern is busier then a Pastel Lesser. I have since seen a few more pictures that show the Super Pastel Lesser look like this hatchling. Busier pattern...but the faded black and lighter yellow...Will do more digging, too [emoji5]


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Also wanted to point out, this is not about pricing it. I have given most hatchlings away to enthusiastic young keepers and sold a few at lower prices since I don't ship currently. This one just intrigues me...the difference to all the other super pastels is quite dramatic in person. Will update with a new picture...she is in shed [emoji4]


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

That's what threw me off..the pattern. The color is quite different from the Super Pastel...but the pattern is busier then a Pastel Lesser. I have since seen a few more pictures that show the Super Pastel Lesser look like this hatchling. Busier pattern...but the faded black and lighter yellow...Will do more digging, too [emoji5]

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IMO you're overcomplicating it. the pattern is right for a Super Pastel and it's colors are within the normal variation for that morph. if u would have posted only it's photo by itself, w/o parentage or clutch info, everyone would have said Super Pastel. Super Pastel Lesser's can have busy patterns (more speech bubbles for example) but IMO they would not have the pattern that this hatchling has.

I know from experience, it is always harder to ID your own babies.

Perhaps since I see it every day..and can compare it to other Super Pastels ( several) in person as well as other pictures, I'm wondering. That is why I posted [emoji6]


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I was definitely thinking super pastel with the individual pictures but seeing it next to the other super pastel I agree it looks like something more but I still don’t see lesser in it. My guess is super special super pastel, that’s confusing not actually the morph super special lol. A super pastel that is very special, how about that haha.

Half the reason I am here is to sanity check myself. We are all here to help each other. I remember, think it was last year I PMed pit with a picture. I had imagined all sorts of stuff, but he said something like, no man, that's just a pin. ROFL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rufretic

I was definitely thinking super pastel with the individual pictures but seeing it next to the other super pastel I agree it looks like something more but I still don’t see lesser in it. My guess is super special super pastel, that’s confusing not actually the morph super special lol. A super pastel that is very special, how about that haha.

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Thats what I don't get , I can't find another Super Pastel that has that almost "lavenderish greyish" black and softer highlighter yellow.

I think this one got something mixed up when it was created, LOL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Half the reason I am here is to sanity check myself. We are all here to help each other. I remember, think it was last year I PMed pit with a picture. I had imagined all sorts of stuff, but he said something like, no man, that's just a pin. ROFL

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Thing is, I KNOW it cannot be "more" then that or some hidden something or other, nor do I want or need it to be that way.

It just niggles at me, because it really is very different. I have laid it next to 4 other Super Pastels now, and while all the other Supers were more or less the same (of course some variations) this one just looks different.

Maybe its just a more faded out kind of Super Pastel, faded as in faded blacks and yellows, rather then more blushing?

When it comes time to place the wee one, I'll just say its a Super Pastel that looks a big odd.

Even if free or cheap, I don't want to give it a wrong "name" ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

Thing is, I KNOW it cannot be "more" then that or some hidden something or other, nor do I want or need it to be that way.

It just niggles at me, because it really is very different. I have laid it next to 4 other Super Pastels now, and while all the other Supers were more or less the same (of course some variations) this one just looks different.

Maybe its just a more faded out kind of Super Pastel, faded as in faded blacks and yellows, rather then more blushing?

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You are more sane than me then. I have pretty much convinced myself I have somehow gotten a hold of the goldblush gene. Nothing I have is supposed to have it, but I have been getting babies where the known genes say one thing, but the babies coming out say something else. There always seen to be a few babies that are light years beyond their siblings.

Almost looks like it has ghost


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

You are more sane than me then. I have pretty much convinced myself I have somehow gotten a hold of the goldblush gene. Nothing I have is supposed to have it, but I have been getting babies where the known genes say one thing, but the babies coming out say something else. There always seen to be a few babies that are light years beyond their siblings.

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Oh, I know something is "different" about this SuperPastel. Despite there being variations in each morph, I've seen enough of them to know the coloration is way off. But perhaps that just happens sometimes. Maybe some combinations just act funny together, despite not actually creating "new" morphs?

Who knows. But its fun, regardless. To wonder, to research, to discuss and compare :)

Never heard of a goldblush gene, do you have pictures?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

Oh, I know something is "different" about this SuperPastel. Despite there being variations in each morph, I've seen enough of them to know the coloration is way off. But perhaps that just happens sometimes. Maybe some combinations just act funny together, despite not actually creating "new" morphs?

Who knows. But its fun, regardless. To wonder, to research, to discuss and compare :)

Never heard of a goldblush gene, do you have pictures?

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Here is a thread on the board about it. https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...sh-Mojave-quot
It is something that was supposedly discovered by Brian Grundy, who I used to talk with periodically. He was on the board for a short while but his approaches to some things are a little "radical " and he and the board parted ways.

I am just seeing some very odd things come out of one of my phantom lines. That little guy in my icon has gotten this really weird yellow undertone that I have never seen in a purple passion. It is not attractive at all in that combo but it should make some hot babies. Some of his siblings, nieces and nephews also have had unusual amounts of yellow blushing. It all traces back to a single male that was an impulse buy and I do not have a clear lineage on.

If I can get some good light I am going to take a new picture of the boy on the left and see what you guys think.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Here is a thread on the board about it. https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...sh-Mojave-quot
It is something that was supposedly discovered by Brian Grundy, who I used to talk with periodically. He was on the board for a short while but his approaches to some things are a little "radical " and he and the board parted ways.

I am just seeing some very odd things come out of one of my phantom lines. That little guy in my icon has gotten this really weird yellow undertone that I have never seen in a purple passion. It is not attractive at all in that combo but it should make some hot babies. Some of his siblings, nieces and nephews also have had unusual amounts of yellow blushing. It all traces back to a single male that was an impulse buy and I do not have a clear lineage on.

If I can get some good light I am going to take a new picture of the boy on the left and see what you guys think.

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That is so interesting !!!

If you think about it, such INSANE things have happened with Ball Pythons already. All these discovered genes, morphs and combos! All these variations. Some of them changing appearance in certain combinations.

God knows how many more "subtle" things could be going on, that are never really noticed, or only happen within certain combinations or certain lines.

I think its cool :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

Oh, I know something is "different" about this SuperPastel. Despite there being variations in each morph, I've seen enough of them to know the coloration is way off. But perhaps that just happens sometimes. Maybe some combinations just act funny together, despite not actually creating "new" morphs?

Who knows. But its fun, regardless. To wonder, to research, to discuss and compare :)

Never heard of a goldblush gene, do you have pictures?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Here is a thread on the board about it. https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...sh-Mojave-quot
It is something that was supposedly discovered by Brian Grundy, who I used to talk with periodically. He was on the board for a short while but his approaches to some things are a little "radical " and he and the board parted ways.

I am just seeing some very odd things come out of one of my phantom lines. That little guy in my icon has gotten this really weird yellow undertone that I have never seen in a purple passion. It is not attractive at all in that combo but it should make some hot babies. Some of his siblings, nieces and nephews also have had unusual amounts of yellow blushing. It all traces back to a single male that was an impulse buy and I do not have a clear lineage on.

If I can get some good light I am going to take a new picture of the boy on the left and see what you guys think.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

That is so interesting !!!

If you think about it, such INSANE things have happened with Ball Pythons already. All these discovered genes, morphs and combos! All these variations. Some of them changing appearance in certain combinations.

God knows how many more "subtle" things could be going on, that are never really noticed, or only happen within certain combinations or certain lines.

I think its cool :)

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i have a Goldblush Mojo. :)

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/DrgM43y.jpg

Brian Gundy is kinda goofy and long in the tooth but u can't argue w/ his results. Marissa, an old forumer/breeder has a a gorgeous, crazy reduced pattern sibling pair from Brian Gundy. pix don't do Goldblush justice.

Edit: anyway but yeah most always look to "dinker" normals for some new trait to prove out. but proven inheritable traits have also been found within morphs like the Goldblush, Jayne line Pastels, etc. and maybe later down the line something in the Stormtrooper and Darth Vader. sooo Zina, u wanna become famous? holdback your Super Pastel bb and prove it out. i wanna see some krazy stuff. :) ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ax01

i have a Goldblush Mojo. :)

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/DrgM43y.jpg

Brian Gundy is kinda goofy and long in the tooth but u can't argue w/ his results. Marissa, an old forumer/breeder has a a gorgeous, crazy reduced pattern sibling pair from Brian Gundy. pix don't do Goldblush justice.

Edit: anyway but yeah most always look to "dinker" normals for some new trait to prove out. but proven inheritable traits have also been found within morphs like the Goldblush, Jayne line Pastels, etc. and maybe later down the line something in the Stormtrooper and Darth Vader. sooo Zina, u wanna become famous? holdback your Super Pastel bb and prove it out. i wanna see some krazy stuff. :) ;)

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You really have a goldblush or are you just making an ax joke?

You guys tease too much. LOL. You both have snakes I am trying to talk you out of.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

You really have a goldblush or are you just making an ax joke?

You guys tease too much. LOL. You both have snakes I am trying to talk you out of.

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lol yeah. her name is Zelena: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ce-of-the-Plan (she was in deep shed she i got her). she has a normal Mojo pattern tho but there's something in her eyes: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...t-Time-Outside ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ax01

lol yeah. her name is Zelena: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ce-of-the-Plan (she was in deep shed she i got her). she has a normal Mojo pattern tho but there's something in her eyes: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...t-Time-Outside ;)

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Ok ax, those pics are beautiful but not helping. LOL All I see is mojo. Would you recognize goldblush if you saw it in another animal? Especially a different morph entirely?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ax01

i have a Goldblush Mojo. :)

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/DrgM43y.jpg

Brian Gundy is kinda goofy and long in the tooth but u can't argue w/ his results. Marissa, an old forumer/breeder has a a gorgeous, crazy reduced pattern sibling pair from Brian Gundy. pix don't do Goldblush justice.



Edit: anyway but yeah most always look to "dinker" normals for some new trait to prove out. but proven inheritable traits have also been found within morphs like the Goldblush, Jayne line Pastels, etc. and maybe later down the line something in the Stormtrooper and Darth Vader. sooo Zina, u wanna become famous? holdback your Super Pastel bb and prove it out. i wanna see some krazy stuff. :) ;)

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i was going to say the same thing. These morphs all piped up out of nowhere at some point somewhere. This could be a new mutation, why not. Find someone with a large normal female that is interested as well and put this little guy to the test. It would be real easy to see, you either get all pastels and it proves your guy is just a different looking super pastel. Or, you get pastels and something ‘different’ now that would be exciting and then there would be all kinds of things you could try to play with your new gene, I personally would go right for a super

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rufretic

i was going to say the same thing. These morphs all piped up out of nowhere at some point somewhere. This could be a new mutation, why not. Find someone with a large normal female that is interested as well and put this little guy to the test. It would be real easy to see, you either get all pastels and it proves your guy is just a different looking super pastel. Or, you get pastels and something ‘different’ now that would be exciting and then there would be all kinds of things you could try to play with your new gene, I personally would go right for a super

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Yeah Zina, hold it back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Ok ax, those pics are beautiful but not helping. LOL All I see is mojo. Would you recognize goldblush if you saw it in another animal? Especially a different morph entirely?

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um maybe. seeing the animal in person would be more helpful tho. (so fly me to the 'Glades?) they have a je ne sais quoi about them Lol. i guess one way to put it, as a hatchling they're black/dark with yellow/bright blushing. they lose they're blacks and gain hues of gold as they mature.

Brian Gundy used to have lotsa pix on his website for comparisons. but his website is like built on 1990's web architecture (lol) and he uses Photobucket (which sucks). the pix he posted on this forum are now broken b/c Photobucket sucks.

post some pix or send them over here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ax01

um maybe. seeing the animal in person would be more helpful tho. (so fly me to the 'Glades?) they have a je ne sais quoi about them Lol. i guess one way to put it, as a hatchling they're black/dark with yellow/bright blushing. they lose they're blacks and gain hues of gold as they mature.

Brian Gundy used to have lotsa pix on his website for comparisons. but his website is like built on 1990's web architecture (lol) and he uses Photobucket (which sucks). the pix he posted on this forum are now broken b/c Photobucket sucks.

post some pix or send them over here.

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Maybe I'll do another cross country thing. Stop by Zina's so one of my girls can have a date with Jag, then swing by your place get one of my snakes evaluated then abscond with that cherry bomb of yours. ROFL

I can take a few new pictures, but I need to know what you are looking for so I can get the right shots.

BTW, you would not like my place anyway. The garage is full of motorcycles, the bedroom snakes and the living room guitars and swords. My mother wont' even visit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ax01

sooo Zina, u wanna become famous? holdback your Super Pastel bb and prove it out. i wanna see some krazy stuff. :) ;)

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Nope, no desire to become famous, or rich off of BP's ;) I want to keep this a passion and a hobby, never a business.

I don't think its anything new or crazy. I simply think that somehow this Super Pastel got confused and took on the "colors" of a Super Pastel Lesser, while keeping the pattern of a Super Pastel. That is exactly what it looks like.

Nothing all to special there.

It will become someone's treasured pet :) I just wanted opinions if I should "trust" the coloration, or the pattern. Each says something else ;)

It was a fun discussion and I love pondering that stuff !! Thanks :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Yeah Zina, hold it back.

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Nah, it will just be a odd Super Pastel treasured pet ;)

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Maybe I'll do another cross country thing. Stop by Zina's so one of my girls can have a date with Jag, then swing by your place get one of my snakes evaluated then abscond with that cherry bomb of yours. ROFL

I can take a few new pictures, but I need to know what you are looking for so I can get the right shots.

BTW, you would not like my place anyway. The garage is full of motorcycles, the bedroom snakes and the living room guitars and swords. My mother wont' even visit.

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Roadtrip :gj:

Just for laughs and giggles, here is a side by side I created from "straight from the egg" pics of one of my 4 Super Pastels and the odd looking Super Pastel.

I only used one of the Super Pastels, because all 4 look basically the same, aside from varying patterns. Coloration almost identical.

As they shed and grew, the difference in color stayed the same. I don't have any of the Super Pastels anymore (well, I have a 4 day old one) to make good side by sides, but the one in the picture of the first page works ;)

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...ge/collage.jpg

Why is it that the shed cycle seems to take far longer when you are waiting to take an updated picture ? sheesh..

To me it seems like there are a lot of possible het ghosts out there, and I think after so many generations of breeding they finally just drop the 'possible het ghost' because it's so remote. To me that looks like a Super Pastel Ghost. I also found a photo of a Super Pastel Lesser, it's a totally different beast. I'd bet money that both parents are het ghost!

Super Pastel Ghost:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...81913edc7e.jpg

Super Pastel Lesser:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...8458923d20.jpg

Hm, I guess it could be possible !!

The Super Pastel Lesser is a adult, correct? Because my adult Pastel Lesser has that coloration, with less blushing, of course!!

When hatchlings, they don't have that greenish/khaki color yet. Its more of a faded brown with faded yellow? Thats how it was with mine, anyway...

Looking at my pictures and remaining hatchlings I finally pinpointed the difference I see..

The SuperPastels have faded black (greyish) with yellow while the odd one has faded brown with yellow.

Would be cool if it was a Ghost, I've never had one of those ;)

Like I said, its fun to wonder and ponder about it. In the end, she will be a pet, so its not vitally important to know "for sure".
I'm going to update with a new picture once she finally sheds !!

I found a couple pictures of "younger" Super Pastel Lessers, they do have a busier pattern and faded browns (rather then blacks/greys) but they are older then mine.

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...ebsize/007.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...ebsize/004.jpg

There can be a lot of variation between different super pastels and that baby does look to me to fall within that area. I am not seeing anything more than super pastel. I am heavily into ghosts and not seeing either ghost or lesser. As a clincher on the ghost side... what does the shed skin look like?

last update since someone FINALLY shed !!!

It is really difficult to get those colors to show up in pictures, as they are in "real life". I also don't have my Super Pastels (the ones around the same age) anymore to make a "side by side" shot, but the earlier pictures show the difference quite well.

Best explanation I can give is that overall that snake has lighter (highlighter) yellows and a overall lavenderish/lighter look to the dark colors, rather then the regular charcoals of the other S.Pastels I've had. Almost the look of one going into shed.

I'm going with "odd looking" Super Pastel.

Thanks all, for your thoughts and musings, much appreciated :)

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...6a04a8a7_c.jpg


ps. dang...I didn't even think about checking the shed !

I think that’s anyone’s best guess out of what the possibilities are. It definitely looks different than your typical super pastel but either way, it sure is a beautiful little snake!

are you holding them back or no? :) j/c

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

are you holding them back or no? :) j/c

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no, no holdbacks ;)

Well, I'm thinking about holding on to the Super Emperor Pinstripe and one of the Killer Spinners. Until I can find a Pastel Leopard Desert Ghost, anyway ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

no, no holdbacks ;)

Well, I'm thinking about holding on to the Super Emperor Pinstripe and one of the Killer Spinners. Until I can find a Pastel Leopard Desert Ghost, anyway ;)

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oOoOoOo exciting!!!

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

oOoOoOo exciting!!!

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I know [emoji3] but who knows...I might change my mind again..[emoji6]


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

I know [emoji3] but who knows...I might change my mind again..[emoji6]


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AHHHHHHHH this isn't fair! TEASE!!!
[emoji12]