Do you worry about Uncle Sam and his effect on your passion for reptiles?

So, I'm in the process of buying my first home as I type this......it's been a hectic day to say the least.

However, before I even looked at a house in the particular town I'm moving to I checked state, county, and municipal laws concerning the ownership of reptiles. This particular town? There is nothing restricting ownership at ALL levels......which is GREAT news to me a snake keeper. :D I feel the best strategy however for me in the future is to keep tight lips about my hobby with the neighbors.

However, as I glanced down the list of municipalities that prohibit snake ownership (not very many, but certainly about 8-10% of them), I had a little bit of worry come over me.....

What if laws are enacted in the future that affect what I love?....do I move? .....do I fight the legislation as a "crazy snake guy" that no one wants to live next to due to his hobby?


Most of the municipalities that restrict reptile ownership ban all snakes over 6ft or have a "constrictor" rule (which is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of as most snakes constrict to eat their prey, even if small)


So, what are your thoughts about being confronted with new legislation in the future? Have you had experiences before with a negative result from such legislation?.....of course I realize the importance of USARK from all of this even more now.

This is why USARK as been created, we as a community have been facing several laws trying to do anything from banning interstate transportation of specific species to banning the ownership of certain reptiles to banning the ownership of exotics in general (from ferret to parakeet to snakes)

This is why it is important to keep up with local and state laws but to also join USARK or volunteer in any capacity possible.

The threat will always be there and it only has gotten worse over the last decade.

I am torn. For every responsible snake owner, there are twice as many imbeciles that should not even own a picture of a snake. How can we in good conscious allow anyone without proper training to own a 14+ foot 150+ pound snake? We should have the right to responsible pet ownership but when do we draw the line at allowing anyone without education to own something that, if escaped, could cause harm?

I would prefer mandatory training and certification before owning certain class of reptiles (anacondas, reties, alligators, large monitors, and basically anything that if let loose will eat the neighbor's dog). How would this be any different than owning a wolf or a tiger or a chimpanzee?

I would also feel it environmentally responsible to restrict and force certification in parts of the US for example that can allow a reptile to become invasive.

This of course means better education on the part of lawmakers as well. I feel we also need better control over breeders and sellers of reptiles. The entire process and chain from legislation, selling, breeding, and ownership needs to be addressed and improved upon.

keeping garters is banned in British Columbia as well as most hots.

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Originally Posted by SDA

I am torn. For every responsible snake owner, there are twice as many imbeciles that should not even own a picture of a snake. How can we in good conscious allow anyone without proper training to own a 14+ foot 150+ pound snake? We should have the right to responsible pet ownership but when do we draw the line at allowing anyone without education to own something that, if escaped, could cause harm?

I would prefer mandatory training and certification before owning certain class of reptiles (anacondas, reties, alligators, large monitors, and basically anything that if let loose will eat the neighbor's dog). How would this be any different than owning a wolf or a tiger or a chimpanzee?

I would also feel it environmentally responsible to restrict and force certification in parts of the US for example that can allow a reptile to become invasive.

This of course means better education on the part of lawmakers as well. I feel we also need better control over breeders and sellers of reptiles. The entire process and chain from legislation, selling, breeding, and ownership needs to be addressed and improved upon.

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I've always had mixed feelings on that, sure all the breeders and pet stores are more selective with who they sell to and are better controlled. But may be those same irresponsible people will just get a reptile from a flea market or some dude off Craigslist. I always thought the best thing to do would be to try to educate the keepers that want to improve but I don't really have a solution. It's disheartening.

Having owned snakes for many years, the best thing I like about snakes is they don't bark nor do they need to go outside to go pee. Now don't think for a moment I don't like dogs... I LOVE dogs. My point is city hall has no business what resides inside my house and I have no intent inviting them over for their next city hall meeting. I like the Utopian idea of better educating our local, state, and national government officials about reptiles but history proves that our elected officials do not possess the key component to be educated.......common sense.

Deed Restrictions
HOA CCR's
Town Ordinances
Zoning
County Regulations
State Laws
Federal Laws

All should be taken into account when buying your home.

As for my local elected officials passing laws to regulate exotic animal ownership and breeding... at best mine are ignorant and unwilling to be educated, at worst they associate snakes with the devil (Eve, apple, snake...). Stuck in between are animal control officers who can identify neglect in anything cute and furry, or with livestock, but who are woefully uneducated when it comes to anything with scales.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Deed Restrictions
HOA CCR's
Town Ordinances
Zoning
County Regulations
State Laws
Federal Laws

All should be taken into account when buying your home.

As for my local elected officials passing laws to regulate exotic animal ownership and breeding... at best mine are ignorant and unwilling to be educated, at worst they associate snakes with the devil (Eve, apple, snake...). Stuck in between are animal control officers who can identify neglect in anything cute and furry, or with livestock, but who are woefully uneducated when it comes to anything with scales.

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Deed restrictions: Not sure, I am not aware of any restrictions to the deed but I will double check with the realtor
HOA CCR's:......none, no HOA in my case (to each their own, but all I ever hear about HOA's are nightmare stories)
Town Ordinances: None, the only restrictions on animals apply to farm animals and birds (specifically chickens)
Zoning: None applying to the ownership of animals for hobby purposes
County: None
State: None
Federal: None


Pretty laid back, "Mind your own business" kind of town while still being friendly. I will have to get a feel for the town board however.


I really appreciate your list, it makes me double check! Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Momokahn

I like the Utopian idea of better educating our local, state, and national government officials about reptiles but history proves that our elected officials do not possess the key component to be educated.......common sense.

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EXACTLY

I feel that even bringing up the subject brings up foolish fears in many people and as a result, simply keeping quiet usually seems to be the best solution.

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Originally Posted by SDA

I would prefer mandatory training and certification before owning certain class of reptiles (anacondas, reties, alligators, large monitors, and basically anything that if let loose will eat the neighbor's dog). How would this be any different than owning a wolf or a tiger or a chimpanzee?
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+1

However, I also see the the downfall with that idea. Local governments tend to simply make the permit process unattainable or affordable if they don't want you owning the animal regardless of proper training. So yeah, they might require you to be educated on the species your working with but then a permit might end up costing you $2000 if they don't like what they hear.

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Originally Posted by KevinK

Deed restrictions: Not sure, I am not aware of any restrictions to the deed but I will double check with the realtor.

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Your realtor won't know. To know you will need a title search or a copy of the deed and related documents to read.

I'll contact the title company before closing so I'll have access to it. I don't see any restrictions arising beyond municipal ordinances (none of which I would be in violation of) in this specific area, but I'll do the research regardless.

Cheers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SDA

I am torn. For every responsible snake owner, there are twice as many imbeciles that should not even own a picture of a snake. How can we in good conscious allow anyone without proper training to own a 14+ foot 150+ pound snake? We should have the right to responsible pet ownership but when do we draw the line at allowing anyone without education to own something that, if escaped, could cause harm?

I would prefer mandatory training and certification before owning certain class of reptiles (anacondas, reties, alligators, large monitors, and basically anything that if let loose will eat the neighbor's dog). How would this be any different than owning a wolf or a tiger or a chimpanzee?

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In theory, this is a wonderful idea. In reality, I wouldn't trust the state to hand out training certificates for pet rocks. The best thing your government can do is offer an affordable permit program, and require residents 18+ years of age to pass a questionnaire proving they're not an utter moron. Sort of like Texas does, but a half step further.
Also, I'd probably run from a chimpanzee. The amount of damage tigers, wolves, chimpanzees, alligators and monitors are capable of is a stretch further than most of the larger snakes. (it's been my experience they don't all grow to massive sizes. Big enough to cause you to bleed, sure.)

Anyone who dies as the claws and teeth of their pets is the misfortunate victim of natural selection. Think about it. Stupid people die on the highway every day.

OP, thanks for starting this thread, it's been an interesting read so far.
In a perfect world, yeah there would be some sort of regulation regarding who is capable of keeping certain "dangerous" animals. But the fact remains that we do not live in a perfect world and morons will always have animals.
Now, personally, I would feel safer walking past the "crazy snake guy's house" than I would walking through the neighborhood with as many poorly trained pit bulls as there are people. Please don't get me wrong, I love dogs, but.... I'm more likely to be bitten and seriously injured by a dog than I am a snake.
If government wants to restrict whether or not I can keep my ferrets, snakes, etc... than you better believe they should be restricting dogs and cats too. However, the lawmakers are more than likely uneducated on the topic of reptiles and exotic pets, so I guess ignorance is bliss...

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This thread started out interesting but then started to worry me a bit so I checked in depth where I live. In Kenmore NY, if it’s sold in a pet shop ( excluding traditional farm animals) in NYS, it’s legal in Kenmore. Kenmore code states 2 dogs (no breed restrictions), 2 cats per property (it’s different for actual apartment buildings), and the usual no-go on farm animals.I had to speak with the actual head-honcho to get a maximum 10’ on snakes; species has nothing to do with it. I didn’t look specifically into things like hots or crocs or giant tortoises, but there are different species of turtles sold at pet stores for people with ponds. He told me they are serious about the dogs and licensing but people can get an exemption. No one is going to count the cats looking out of your windows, unless there’s a whole cattery doing so) and no one is coming around with a tape measure to measure your snakes. Ferrets are licensed like dogs. Rabbits, guinea pigs, chinchillas, pet mice and rats are not. If no one knows you are breeding feeder rats, no one cares persay. HOWEVER, Kenmore has a wild rodent problem, so anything that anyone does that “maintains or facilitates” that problem (like excessive dog or rabbit feces in the yard) will be investigated, fined and possibly shut down. Kenmore’s residential areas are just that, so anything that denies a neighbor of their reasonable quiet enjoyment will be investigated (like lingering bad smells, incessant barking... and yes, reasonable fear -which I couldn’t get defined) Dog and cat breeders are under business codes and licensing. I didn’t ask about breeding snakes. Landlords and management companies may make their contracts more stringent but not less so.
With all the info above, it seems to me that the “less traditional” pets are still open to capricious enforcement once neighbor complaints occur. Under the current command, a neighbor complaining about me sitting on my front porch holding my 7.5’ Dumerils would get no further than someone complaining about a person on a porch with his dozing dog. Personal bias are not relevant. But what happens when the current command changes?

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Originally Posted by DLena

This thread started out interesting but then started to worry me a bit so I checked in depth where I live. In Kenmore NY, if it’s sold in a pet shop ( excluding traditional farm animals) in NYS, it’s legal in Kenmore. Kenmore code states 2 dogs (no breed restrictions), 2 cats per property (it’s different for actual apartment buildings), and the usual no-go on farm animals.I had to speak with the actual head-honcho to get a maximum 10’ on snakes; species has nothing to do with it. I didn’t look specifically into things like hots or crocs or giant tortoises, but there are different species of turtles sold at pet stores for people with ponds. He told me they are serious about the dogs and licensing but people can get an exemption. No one is going to count the cats looking out of your windows, unless there’s a whole cattery doing so) and no one is coming around with a tape measure to measure your snakes. Ferrets are licensed like dogs. Rabbits, guinea pigs, chinchillas, pet mice and rats are not. If no one knows you are breeding feeder rats, no one cares persay. HOWEVER, Kenmore has a wild rodent problem, so anything that anyone does that “maintains or facilitates” that problem (like excessive dog or rabbit feces in the yard) will be investigated, fined and possibly shut down. Kenmore’s residential areas are just that, so anything that denies a neighbor of their reasonable quiet enjoyment will be investigated (like lingering bad smells, incessant barking... and yes, reasonable fear -which I couldn’t get defined) Dog and cat breeders are under business codes and licensing. I didn’t ask about breeding snakes. Landlords and management companies may make their contracts more stringent but not less so.
With all the info above, it seems to me that the “less traditional” pets are still open to capricious enforcement once neighbor complaints occur. Under the current command, a neighbor complaining about me sitting on my front porch holding my 7.5’ Dumerils would get no further than someone complaining about a person on a porch with his dozing dog. Personal bias are not relevant. But what happens when the current command changes?

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People often forget it's not just what law is written in the books, but also how often it's enforced.