New BP owner here!!

OK I am a new owner of a 6 month old, 24 inch male BP named Shahrazad. He is as cute as a button and seems to be settling in nicely. He was raised on live feed, so I have decided to stick with live feed for now at least. The place where I got him from said wait for four days and then feed him and I did and he ate like a champ. They then said that i could handle him as much as I want after that, but I am in no hurry.

Having never owned a snake or really spent much time with them, I am concerned about the whole handling thing. He hissed at me once when I was moving a couple things around his cage, but made no aggressive movement. I have yet to handle him at all and because of what I have read here, I think I will wait until he eats at least two times more.

So regarding handling, what are some good approaches to handling for the first time? What does the hissing mean? I firmly plan on having this guy with me for decades to come, so my main concern is building a foundation of a relationship with him and his comfort levels. Honestly, I don't care if it takes a couple years until we are simpatico together as long as he never is stressed by it. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanx,

Rachel :rolleyes:

Congrats on the new BP and the successful feed. I think it is great that you are willing to let him settle in a bit more before handling. That should make the transition very smooth and cut waaay down on stress. :)

I'm a new BP owner myself. I've had Sobe for 4 months. When I handle Sobe I try to move deliberately but slow and steady. No sudden movements. It will get better as he gets used to being handled more. :)

Oh yeah, forgot to add that I think the hissing is just his way of telling you that he doesn't want to be bothered.

Welcome to the forum Rachel!

We didn't handle ours much until they had eaten a few times for us either, and especially hands off for 24-48 hours after they eat always. Once the snakes were settled in and eating regularily we just started short handling sessions each evening after dusk. I think at first it was only a few minutes each time and then each week or so we'd increase it a bit more as long as the snakes were not obviously stressed or fighting to escape or hiding in a ball.

When we open their enclosures we just gently stroke them partway down their backs to let them know a lift is about to happen. Now that they are used to being handled sometimes they will hang around peering out the tub. I sometimes wonder if they are waiting to get let out LOL (or they just hope a mouse or rat might wander by!)

So far we've never been bitten and only hissed at once when Keena was heavily in shed (who wouldn't be in a mood). We're very lucky that neither of ours is very headshy though they do not like sudden movements directly at the side of their heads, but do seem to like chin rubs. I think if you just take it slowly and consistently, it will likely be a great experience for you and one your snake will not mind at all.


~~Joanna~~

What are your temps humidity and cage size?

Don't back off when you want to handle .As long as your not overhandling your BP don't back off when they hiss. It will leave your bp thinking "hmm hissing will make him go away"

All good advice so far. I would switch to frozen/thawed prey as soon as possible. Live is not necessary and as the prey size gets bigger you risk biting, scarring and possibly death to your snake if the prey fights back. I just bought 4 new BPs in the last week. I was told they wouldnt eat F/T only live. Well all of them at F/T the first time offered. Just a suggestion!

Jamie

Switching to f/t is a good idea if that's what you are most comfortable with, but if you want to feed live that's fine too. Just make sure you do so responsibly and find out what works best for you. Most of the big breeders feed live because thawing out hundreds of mice and rats just isn't feasible, and can do so safely. This is a very hot topic and as long as you do your homework I'm sure you'll do fine.

Oh btw Rachel I did want to compliment you on your great attitude. Sometimes we new owners get so caught up in our beautiful snakes we don't look at the big picture or the long term gain in taking the slow and steady approach to things.

Glad to see you join the forum Rachel!


~~Jo~~

It is definitely a hot button topic but I felt it prudent to put my opinion out there. It doesn't take much research to see what is the right decision. The key words in your sentence is "the big breeders" and "safely". A new owner isnt a big breeder and certainly doesn't have the experience necessary to do it safely. I plan to do quite a bit of breeding in the next few years and have NO intention of breeding feeders which means frozen is my choice. It is the right decision in most cases. Just my opinion though...

sounds like things are going fine. keep everything steady and constant, feed on the same day every week, do routine handling. most will come around and not strike or hiss alot. some bp's just don't tolerate handling well. alot of babies and juvies are hungry,snappy and defensive. most of the adults are alot more relaxed. feed what you decide is best, and what your snake will eat steady.


vaughn

The hissing means exactly that... "Hiss Off!!!" My BP only hisses when he's in shed - they can't see properly so they get a bit defensive.


When he was very small, he did bite me a couple of times. When they're little, anything bigger than them they think is going to eat them. I have a pair of thin leather gloves which I wore to pick him up with. I only had to wear them 3 times. As soon as I'd picked him up I took the glove off. I can handle any of my BPs and neither will hiss or try and strike. Like I said, the only time Byron my BP hisses is when he's in shed and I leave him alone then anyway. Bobby my other BP (he's a rescue) doesn't hiss. He's very laid back and friendly.

I'd switch to f/t as soon as possible. My BPs will strike and eat f/t no problem. They've still got to "kill" it though LOL - just making sure;) I buy several of everything to last a few weeks and put them in a box in the freezer. I just take them out and defrost them naturally (doesn't take long) and warm the rodents up with an old hairdryer so they're nice and warm.

Once your BP is eating regularly, just build up the handling. Don't be scared to handle your snake. They soon get used to it. Everyone's put up good advice. BPs make lovely pets and I'm sure you'll be delighted with yours.

I'm totally in :love: with mine:D

As far as the hissing, biting, striking w/o biting I think it's really important to look at the whole situation.

Like Fiona's Byron that only hisses during shed, or the one and only time Riona (aka Baby) struck at me. I was cleaning up a mess, in a hurry, moving way too fast around a snake taking a drink (I should have of course waited for her to finish up and move off)....she jabbed at me....could have hit easily and didn't...totally my fault for startling her.

Mike also has a S.F.E. (stupid feeding error) totally his fault. Lil hint, most snakes really don't need help arranging their nice dead prey for proper head first consumption - a lesson Riona reinforced strongly to Mike LOL. Again tho...a strike but a wide miss....from a snake that is deadly accurate and fast as a blink....she didn't need to bite him...she needed to make her point....MY mouse!...back OFF! :hungry:

We aren't intimidated by the snakes if they hiss or whatever, but we do look at why they felt they needed to act aggressively or defensively. So far it's been our fault either by our actions or not understanding the snake's need to be left alone at that moment.


~~Jo~~

Know what you mean about it being "MY mouse. Back off!!!" When feeding Ringo my Milksnake a few weeks back, I noticed a cat hair had got stuck on the pinky mouse. I tried to take the hair off, Ringo zoomed back backwards with the pinky still in his mouth (what a speed!!!) and rattled his tail at me :laughing: . He's a small snake and it was really funny his "I'm going to be a Rattlesnake when I grow up":laughing:


Bobby my rescue BP took his rat awkwardly last night and ended up eating it tail first. He struggled with it for about an hour but managed in the end. He is in shed just now and having two layers of eyecaps (which I hope both come off when he sheds) he couldn't see very well, but was hungry enough to eat a weaner rat then a medium sized mouse (he didn't make a mistake with the mouse). Hopefully, he'll shed in the next few days. I can hardly wait because the poor snake's previous owners didn't keep the humidity correct and he had three partial sheds stuck to him:( Hopefully he'll shed fine this time (Byron always has perfect sheds) so fingers crossed.

I learned early on with my Hog Island Boa not to bother him when he is eating. I used to use Aspen and I fed him in his cage. One time a piece was stuck to the rat. I tried to remove it with a hemostat. He struck at me multiple times with the rat halfway down his throat. He also doesnt like anyone in the room when he eats. He strikes the side of the rubbermaid. He is sweet when not eating though!

man, i know exactly what you guys mean. when i feed my female vanessa, if i go to look at her sometimes she'll completely forget aboout the rat and charge at me. one time i was watching her and she was just carrying on like nothin was wrong then all of a sudden when the tail was still beeing slurped down she caught me on the finger, there was blood all over my finger!

It is funny really that a really laid back snake can get so different so fast. I know ours go from being easy as pie to lil Mz. Intense on feeding night. Guess when you get your whole week's nutrition all at once, you get just a tad protective of dinner LOL.

Ours don't mind us watching them eat (tho we are very quiet and don't move about much), but woe is me to the fool that gets between them and a warm rat or mouse! By the next time we handle them they are back to their normal, very docile selves but it's a good reminder that they really aren't fully domesticated "pets".

Riona (aka Baby) will still track the hemostat tho. We tested it with no prey in the room at all. She definitely follows it with this intense attitude (not physically following it, but moving her head and tongue flicking madly at wherever it is). I think Miss Piggy has figured out somehow that the "shiney thingy" equals mana from heaven or something LOL.


~~Joanna~~

Listen, even domesticated pets are protective of their food. I was bitten numerous times when I was a kid for messing with one of the dogs while they were eating.

Still very muhc getting used to handling Monty.
He has hissed a few times but we've carried on - it is clearly his way of saying don't bother me but the first several times you handle the snack it will always be a stressful experience (for both of you) and putting it off becuase he hissed will not help.
If you think he is in shed leave him well alone though - I believe that with the temporary blindness they get it is the most likely time to get bitten besides feeding (and I won't even let me hands in the tank then - crack the door open a slit and dangle the rat through it)

I know this sounds daft but I always speak to my snakes before I pick them up, even when they're in shed (I don't like moving the snakes when they're in shed, but if they've soiled their substrate, out they come and I change it and as soon as I'm done they go back in their viv).

Speaking to them (telling them how handsome and beautiful they are:D ) gives them time to pick up your scent - snake thinks "OK. This huge thing isn't going to eat me. Gives me food". I also think that although they can't hear the way we, or other animals do (well, at least the "experts" don't think so), I do believe they can differentiate between the vibration of different voices, e.g. Graham obviously has a lower pitched (vibrating) voice than me.

For example, the other week I asked Graham to take Byron my Royal out. Byron promptly bit Graham:rofl: I just said to Graham, "Next time you take him out, talk to him first!!!" The next time Graham took Byron out for me, I know Graham thought I'd totally lost the plot but to humour me he talked to my lovely little snake and Byron came out all chilled and relaxed and as sweet as a kitten:D

Well if you're nuts Fiona, make room on the Nutsy Couch for a lot of us cause I bet most here babble to their snakes quite regularily LOL.

Mike is currently "in a mood" as we spent all this time finding nice names for Baby and Punkin (now Riona and Keena) and when I've taken to calling them Ree Ree and Kee Kee. My husband is NOT impressed LMAO!

I think it's sort of like that movie Three Men & A Baby...it's doesn't matter what you say, it's the tone of your voice LOL.

We always gently stroke the snakes and speak to them prior to a lift from their Sterlites. Seems to work since they aren't freaking out...so why change it.


~~Jo~~

Thanks for all the good advice everyone. It is most appreciated. Shahrazad and I have been bonding. I handled him for about 30 minutes last night and he couldn't have been a more perfect gentleman and at the end, he didn't even want to go back in his cage.

I am going to keep on with the live food though. It just seems more natural to me and as long as he stikes first, I don't really see a problem, but I will watch him closely. I am asking him to be the best BP he can be and I just feel that includes trusting him to do what hundred million years of evolution has trained him to do.

He is a sweetheart and I have already fallen in love with him. Pics will be coming soon.

Rachel

First off, welcome to the forums! I Own a baby bp that I bought back in early July at the reptile and exotic animal show, he is about 18in long and is feeding happily on mice. His name is Monty (how original):rolleyes: . As a matter of a fact he is in my lap now as I type. Im from South Carolina. I also own 2 adult leos, Ceasar and Cleo and have 2 new leos coming by mail from California. Bought them little buggers from Herp-titude.com. One is a hypo tangerine and one is a Super hypo tangerine. Again Welcome to the forums and I'm sure you will enjoy it ( I am.)

Rachel you do what you feel most comfortable to do and what works with your snake. Adam is the first one to say that live feeding, done responsibly, is a fine method of feeding...so is frozen/thawed...so is pre-killed.

The nice thing about this forum is there are just as many who feed each method as well as those that feed mice and those that feed rats so you are bound to get some decent advice from someone (and yes sometimes a bit of controversy but that's expected when people are passionate about their love of royals).

I'm glad you and so many are finding this forum so valuable. My family loves this forum and it's often our first resource when questions arise or we just want to brag on our girlies (most of our friends think we are nuts!) It's also a huge part of the reason we have happy, healthy snakes and we are so comfortable with them. Go BP.net! Go!

~~Jo~~

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Originally Posted by RWillinnable

I am going to keep on with the live food though. It just seems more natural to me and as long as he stikes first, I don't really see a problem, but I will watch him closely.

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that is exactly what i think, but let me give you some tips on what i do. hold the rat using some sort of tongs or something like that(you can use your hand but dont be suprised one of these days if he gets you) by his tail in front of your snake and let the snake get the first shot at the rat.

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Originally Posted by mr~python

that is exactly what i think, but let me give you some tips on what i do. hold the rat using some sort of tongs or something like that(you can use your hand but dont be suprised one of these days if he gets you) by his tail in front of your snake and let the snake get the first shot at the rat.

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I would not recommend holding any LIVE prey items with tongs or your hand while feeding. Basically this gets the rodent 'angry and prepared to fight'...not to mention it really stresses the rodent. It is better just to place the live food item in the enclosure. Also, you should not hold a live rat by its tail with tongs...the skin on a rat's tail is very thin and can easily be torn. Please do not do that with live rodents....it is not nice :)

sorry, i didnt know i was doing anything wrong.

Glad to let you know then.....thats what this forum is all about :D

yeah im glad too

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Originally Posted by jglass38

A new owner isnt a big breeder and certainly doesn't have the experience necessary to do it safely.

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Sorry Jamie, but we're going to have agree to disagree there ... I think that people (even new owners) should feed what their snakes will eat, and what is most convenient for them as a keeper ... live, F/T, P/K, etc. If someone doesn't have common sense enough to be able to safely feed live food, then there are tons of other ways that they can also potentially hurt their animal through bad and negligent husbandry. I know many many people that are not big breeders and do not have tons of experience that feed their ball pythons live food without problems every single week.

What and how anyone feeds their animal(s) is a personal decision and just like many other personal decisions that people make for themselves or their families (religion, type of car, choice of schooling, hairstyle, etc) while I may not agree, I certainly don't feel it's my place to tell them that they should change it. All I can do when it comes to snakes is offer my help to make sure whatever they decide works out well for them and their animals.

And that's just my opinion. ;) :D

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Sorry Jamie, but we're going to have agree to disagree there ... I think that people (even new owners) should feed what their snakes will eat, and what is most convenient for them as a keeper ... live, F/T, P/K, etc. If someone doesn't have common sense enough to be able to safely feed live food, then there are tons of other ways that they can also potentially hurt their animal through bad and negligent husbandry. I know many many people that are not big breeders and do not have tons of experience that feed their ball pythons live food without problems every single week.

What and how anyone feeds their animal(s) is a personal decision and just like many other personal decisions that people make for themselves or their families (religion, type of car, choice of schooling, hairstyle, etc) while I may not agree, I certainly don't feel it's my place to tell them that they should change it. All I can do when it comes to snakes is offer my help to make sure whatever they decide works out well for them and their animals.

And that's just my opinion. ;) :D

-adam

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Well put and we don't have to agree on everything! :)

I certainly can't make decisions for everyone. My decision is to feed FT whenever possible. When (hopefully) I run an operation as big as yours, my feelings might change. Who knows!

Thanks to Adam's guidance and coaching, as a new BP owner, I am feeding live and feel confident that Kashmire is safe during the process. I never EVER walk away, and if he hasn't shown an interest in 30-45 minutes, I simply remove the mouse and offer again the next week. I also feed in the enclosure (on no, another can or worms! LOL) at his guidance and suggestion as well, so Kash doesn't have to be handled afterwards and can comfortably decide which hide he wants to nap in for two days (he usually moves back and forth thermo-regulating) during those two days.

Well, we got through the second feeding and it went excellently again. I think I may have stumbled into a strategy that seems to work for both of us. I have noticed that Shahrazad is pretty much dead to the world from about 3 in the morning until 10 at night. So, I thought that maybe the best way to introduce the prey to him is when he is asleep in one of his hides. It seems to allow the mouse to settle a bit and it allows Shahrazad to use his natural hunting instincts by first sensing the prey and then searching and then striking. I didn't see the prey item recognizing his presence either time which only enhances my boy's chances of striking first and avoiding injury.

I also am feeding him in his environment, but I am being careful in how I deal with opening his cage. When I want to take him out to play with him, I wait until I see him wanting to get out and I always approach the cage saying how cute he is and doing it in a very maternal tone, and then when I am pretty sure that he does not see me as a food item, then I open his cage and gently run my finger down his spice, which seems to be very relaxing to him. And then I pick him up.

When feeding, it is just the opposite. I make sure he is dead asleep and then very quietly put the mouse in his cage by unstapling the bag the pet store put the mouse in and then without ever touching the mouse, I turn the bag over and empty the mouse in the cage and then quietly replace the lid and lock it and then I watch quietly to make sure that the mouse does not attack my boy. But honestly, I don't think the mouse knew shahrazad was there either time. In fact, this latest guy looked like he was burrowing a bed for himself when he was taken. That seems more humane to the mouse as well.

I like this method, because I doubt that he connected me to the food either time. Still early in the game, but I like where it is going. And he seems to have a good appetite, so I guess he is comfortable with me, which is very satisfying.

I really feel that I made the right decision in getting a ball. And this particular guy I have to say is the gentlest, most timid animal I have ever been around. I am absolutely enchanted by him and his infant-like curiosity about life.

Rachel

We've always fed in our snake's enclosures as well. I believe though that every owner has to feed in the manner they feel is best for their snake and their own comfort level.

That being said, we too have a "routine" with our snakes that is quite different on feeding day as compared to any other normal handling time. The snakes seem to recognize this routine somewhat and react appropriately, allowing us to handle them with ease. Feeding day we don't do any "fun" handling, they are more focused on their bellies and when the tub opens that night it's all about getting busy with the prey LOL.

I adore ball pythons. So far, we've had wonderful experiences with them and look forward to the coming years of expanding our collection and hopefully watching their babies hatch out. I can't truely think of a more perfect pet/hobby creature. Relatively easy to keep, reasonably passive in nature, absolutely lovely to watch and handle.


~~Jo~~

I actually feed most of my snakes in their enclosure. But that is only since I changed to newspaper. I had a couple close calls with large pieces of substrate and its just not feasible once you have more than a few snakes to take each one out to feed. Now just the Brazilian Rainbow Boa comes out to feed since he is on cypress.

We use aspen and just pop in a pad of newspaper over an area of the substrate and feed there. Works like a charm - cuts down on any worry about ingestion and keeps the substrate clean in case of leakage from the prey. We put it in well before bringing in the prey and leave it till the snake has settled back down and gone off back to it's hide.

Course I wouldn't want to be the newspaper boy once our snakes figure out newspaper=dinner time LOL (j/k of course)

~~Jo~~

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

We use aspen and just pop in a pad of newspaper over an area of the substrate and feed there. Works like a charm - cuts down on any worry about ingestion and keeps the substrate clean in case of leakage from the prey. We put it in well before bringing in the prey and leave it till the snake has settled back down and gone off back to it's hide.

Course I wouldn't want to be the newspaper boy once our snakes figure out newspaper=dinner time LOL (j/k of course)


~~Jo~~


~~Jo~~

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I tried that in the past but the BRB drags the prey all over the cage, never stays in one place.

LOL so far ours have stayed pretty much on the newspaper....the wee piggies are too busy snarfing down dinner to move much I think. It won't completely stop any ingestion but it's small shred aspen so I doubt highly a tiny bit on a dead rat's butt will do much harm.


~~Jo~~

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

LOL so far ours have stayed pretty much on the newspaper....the wee piggies are too busy snarfing down dinner to move much I think. It won't completely stop any ingestion but it's small shred aspen so I doubt highly a tiny bit on a dead rat's butt will do much harm.


~~Jo~~

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I agree. My BRB is a rescue with past health problems so I am extremely careful with him, probably more than what is necessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

I doubt highly a tiny bit on a dead rat's butt will do much harm.


~~Jo~~

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I bet your right. If a ball python can digest bones, fur, etc
So alitte fiber won't hurt