New Ball Python Concerns

Hi everyone, looking for some advice/suggestions on my new ball python. As far as the back story goes, I purchased this ball python about 2 weeks ago from Petsmart. Now I realize its not at all recommended to get reptiles from there as there not always healthy taken care of well/ etc. While I walked in knowing this, they had a very colorful what i believe to be pastel that appeared to be healthy. I took the approach that it was an animal that I could take in and take good care of. When i purchased it, they had given me the feeding chart and for the two weeks they had had it in store it had not yet eat. I brought it home and after about a week I attempted feeding it a F/T fuzzy. After it refused that meal i gave it about another week of little to no handling and tried again. After refusing this meal I realized it had gone quite a while without eating already. I attempted to assist feed it but it refused that as well. One week later, tonight, i attempted to feed a F/T fuzzy again, after refusing i again attempted the assist feed and it refused. (forgot to mention earlier that i thawed it sitting on top of its 10G tank the put it under a light to heat up prior to feedings). Now i know that BP's are said to be picky eaters, but is this something i should start to become concerned about? I realize that i made the mistake of getting snake from a petsmart with an unknown past feeding history/ history over all, as well as purchasing it from there without it have since they received it. I have hope for the snake as its a very pretty color, but at the same time I would also like some advice/suggestions that anyone else might have. I have up until tuesday to return the snake if I really wanted to, but this is something I am hoping to avoid as i want to raise this snake to be as healthy as possible. Again, any suggests or input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

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Originally Posted by pilot

Hi everyone, looking for some advice/suggestions on my new ball python. As far as the back story goes, I purchased this ball python about 2 weeks ago from Petsmart. Now I realize its not at all recommended to get reptiles from there as there not always healthy taken care of well/ etc. While I walked in knowing this, they had a very colorful what i believe to be pastel that appeared to be healthy. I took the approach that it was an animal that I could take in and take good care of. When i purchased it, they had given me the feeding chart and for the two weeks they had had it in store it had not yet eat. I brought it home and after about a week I attempted feeding it a F/T fuzzy. After it refused that meal i gave it about another week of little to no handling and tried again. After refusing this meal I realized it had gone quite a while without eating already. I attempted to assist feed it but it refused that as well. One week later, tonight, i attempted to feed a F/T fuzzy again, after refusing i again attempted the assist feed and it refused. (forgot to mention earlier that i thawed it sitting on top of its 10G tank the put it under a light to heat up prior to feedings). Now i know that BP's are said to be picky eaters, but is this something i should start to become concerned about? I realize that i made the mistake of getting snake from a petsmart with an unknown past feeding history/ history over all, as well as purchasing it from there without it have since they received it. I have hope for the snake as its a very pretty color, but at the same time I would also like some advice/suggestions that anyone else might have. I have up until tuesday to return the snake if I really wanted to, but this is something I am hoping to avoid as i want to raise this snake to be as healthy as possible. Again, any suggests or input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

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What are your temps and humidity?

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It would be helpful to see a photo of your setup. I'm assuming that this ball python is probably close to a hatchling size? Do you have a scale to where you can weight it in grams? Personally I would never assist feed, have you ever done this before? It usually makes the snake very stressed and can cause them to go off of feed even more. I'd suggest finding a pet store that has live pinky rats and put a rat in it's cage in the evening and I can almost guarantee that by morning it will be gone. A live pinky rat with it's eyes closed is perfectly safe to leave in there overnight. Any other live rodent needs to be checked after about 5-10 minutes and removed if not eaten to prevent the rodent doing damage to the snake (i.e., a small mouse).

PetSmart needs to stock some live pinky rats to feed it's ball pythons if it intends to take care of them properly. Or at least outsource it, have a real breeder come in after hours and drop in some pinky rats if they don't have the stomach to do it themselves. Getting the weight of the snake in grams is helpful, you should feed a rodent that is about 10% of the weight of the snake, usually 5% - 10% is the rule of thumb. So for a 100 gram snake you should feed a 10 gram pinky rat. A small snake like that should be fed every 4-5 days. I usually feed small snakes on Sunday and Wednesday, usually 1-3 rodents back to back (multiple smaller rodents or one larger rodent). If I have an excess of rodents in my rack I feed the smaller ones off in larger numbers to balance out the rodent population. If you feed a rodent that is less than 5% of the weight of the snake it may not see it as a food item and may refuse to eat it (i.e. a pinky mouse)

We will need to know more about your set up before we can really assess what the problem is. The reason ball pythons are such picky eaters is if their husbandry isnt correct then they will not eat.

What are your temps and humidity? How are you measuring them, like what sort of thermometer? How are you heating the enclosure? Are your heat sourcing being regulated by a thermostat? How many hides do you have and how much coverage does he have to hide in? A pic of you setup would help a lot (If you don't know how to upload pics the easiest way is by using the free app Tapatalk)

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Don't have a picture at the moment, but it is a 10 gallon tank with a small zoomed heating pad, about 1-2 inches of aspen. Hide is on half with heat pad, with some fake greenery all over. Opposite side just has water bowl Room temp is about 75-80 on average. Don't have a heating lamp because i have read that the heating pad should be sufficient. humidity is around 40-45%. Cant say ive heard of feeding it a live pinky, but do you think this would initiate its want to feed? currently have been attempting fuzzy mice so I'm not too sure it had been fed rats before and is now refusing mice because it's never had them before. Also, don't have a scale either that i can weigh it on.

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Originally Posted by pilot

Don't have a picture at the moment, but it is a 10 gallon tank with a small zoomed heating pad, about 1-2 inches of aspen. Hide is on half with heat pad, with some fake greenery all over. Opposite side just has water bowl Room temp is about 75-80 on average. Don't have a heating lamp because i have read that the heating pad should be sufficient. humidity is around 40-45%. Cant say ive heard of feeding it a live pinky, but do you think this would initiate its want to feed? currently have been attempting fuzzy mice so I'm not too sure it had been fed rats before and is now refusing mice because it's never had them before. Also, don't have a scale either that i can weigh it on.

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A heating pad doesn't raise ambient temps 40-45% humidity is too low should be between 50-60% and is your heating pad regulated by a thermostat And do you have thermometers in the enclosure?

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As far as how i measure temps/humidity, I just have the basic thermometers that velcro onto inside of tank. Nothing extremely special but will definitely take recommendations/ suggestions on specific brands/ things to buy. I also do not have a thermostat to regulate the heating pad.

Suggestions as to raising humidity? also would adding a heat lamp them be the next step as to raising ambient temps as well?

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Originally Posted by pilot

Don't have a picture at the moment, but it is a 10 gallon tank with a small zoomed heating pad, about 1-2 inches of aspen. Hide is on half with heat pad, with some fake greenery all over. Opposite side just has water bowl Room temp is about 75-80 on average. Don't have a heating lamp because i have read that the heating pad should be sufficient. humidity is around 40-45%. Cant say ive heard of feeding it a live pinky, but do you think this would initiate its want to feed? currently have been attempting fuzzy mice so I'm not too sure it had been fed rats before and is now refusing mice because it's never had them before. Also, don't have a scale either that i can weigh it on.

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Change substrate. Aspen will not hold any humidity. Use Eco earth if you want a fast solution. You need TWO identical hides that are small. BP like to be tight and enclosed. Water bowl goes in the middle. You need to regulate that uth with a thermostat. You need a heat lamp. Ambient temp should be no less than 80. Hot side should be 90. Humidity should be 60%. Look,up,the pinned thread of a glass tank set up and the other is hides my way. Your husbandry is off which is most likely why your beep is t eating.

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Originally Posted by pilot

As far as how i measure temps/humidity, I just have the basic thermometers that velcro onto inside of tank. Nothing extremely special but will definitely take recommendations/ suggestions on specific brands/ things to buy. I also do not have a thermostat to regulate the heating pad.

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Get those out of your tank right now! Nothing sticky ever goes inside your enclosure. Ever. Sorry to sound harsh but if you have ever had your snake get stuck on them you will know. Take those out!

Okay, first things first. Is your heat pad being controlled by a thermostat? If not I would unplug it and get a heat lamp as soon as possible. Those things are impossible to control the heat without one and are quick to malfunction and can leave you will a severly burnt or dead snake. Also in a heat pad only provides belly heat, you still will need something to keep the ambient, air, temps up. The ambient temps with a heat pad should be 80-85 throughout with a thermostat controlled heat pad making a hot spot of 91. Without a heat pad the lamp sound make a hot spot of around 90 and the cold side around 80. 75 is just pushing to cold for air temps, any lower at all is bad.

Also he needs to identical hides on both sides of the tank. A ball python will risk proper temps for safety so you need to give him the chance to feel safe on both sides of the tank. The hides also need to be snug around his body, think of it like a turtle shell. They like close spaces.

The humidity is also a bit low. 50-60 normally and 70 during shed.

Feeding live does help if they aren't eating but I highly doubt he will eat until the issued I addressed are fixed.

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You need to unplug your uth until it is regulated with a thermostat.

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Originally Posted by pilot

As far as how i measure temps/humidity, I just have the basic thermometers that velcro onto inside of tank. Nothing extremely special but will definitely take recommendations/ suggestions on specific brands/ things to buy. I also do not have a thermostat to regulate the heating pad.

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Get digital ones a lot of people use acurite brand I've read horror stories about those because of the sticky pads I didn't know this until sunnieskys yelled at me [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] and no thermostat with a heat pad is a BIG NO I didn't have one when I first got mine cuz I didn't do proper research and the surface of the glass on mine read at 126.6 Fahrenheit get one ASAP and until you do get a Che and unplug the heat pad

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OMG I would unplug that heating pad ASAP! Without a thermostat you'll burn your snake right up, probably why it won't eat. To start I would get something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Hortic...art+thermostat

If you can afford it I'd go with something like this, these have more safety features, this is a mid level thermostat, the Herpstat would be the high end. In a pinch the first one will do.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/ve-300

As for what thermometer to use they sell some digital ones by acurite cheap at Wal-Mart and some really good probed ones (which you will need if you keep using the heating pad) for about 15 bucks on amazon. Sorry on phone so I can't link

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I will definitely be picking up a thermostat tomorrow as well as adding a second hide. Also changing out those thermometers. Would the new substrate and feeding a live pinky also be recommended? How long before i should attempt to feed again?

Mouse pinkies are too small for a ball python regardless of age. Here's a handy feeding chart for reference:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2F98qfzDH.png

Like the others said get your temps on point and more importantly get that thermostat. I find doing research before a purchase like this really helps. I researched for two months set-up tank and made sure everything was on point. This forum has helped a lot no matter how dumb the question is. Good luck! :)

Ball pythons are a science project, as much as a pet. :)

And besides the husbandry a good note to consider is that your ball has yet to start eating so it may be best to get him started on live hoppers for his first meal try a fuzzy they are very small and do not move very much i had the same issue with my ball she did not eat for me for over a month when i first got her i was trying ft fuzzies pinkys hoppers and no results i did some research and found that jts best to get them started on live the later they start eating the more chance you risk of having a problem feeder even if you do not condone live it’s ultimately whats best for your ball the min i tossed in a live fuzzy my girl wrapped around it in less then a min and has been feeding agreesively every 4-5 days once you get your ball eating regularly you can switch over to ft small mice pose very little harm to your snake so there is really nothing to lose at this point but first things first get your enclosure temps controlled and uth regulated until you get thermostat its best to get the ambient air temps up at least so your snake is not cold once you get your temps and humidity right she should start eating do not assist feed it is unnatural and very stressfull for snake ur ball will not let it self starve to death snakes are very smart resourceful animals

I haven't seen it mentioned in the other very good posts, but you should not be handling at all unless it's to change the tank stuff.

Here's a good inexpensive thermometer that will measure humidity.
https://www.amazon.com/AcuRite-00891...ef=ast_p_pg_ma

You can find these at Walmarts as well, if you don't want to use Amazon.

Petsmart is nothing more than a dumping ground for snake wholesalers. They have no information on the feeding history of the snakes they get in other than what they try and feed. They offer f/t regardless of previous feeding from a breeder. The stressed out conditions these snakes arrive into these stores and the dismal conditions they often keep them in compound the issue.

Assist feeding is a last resort and should not be considered a normal act of feeding.

As other's have said, find live prey and offer that to get them feeding again. Square up your husbandry as recommended. The top priority right now is removing as much stressful conditions as you can. Clutter, proper heat and humidity, proper hides, blocking off back and sides of tank, reduced handling unless absolutely necessary, and minimal interaction until successful multiple feedings (I would say 3 in this case) are things you must do.

Like so many of us with big hearts we sometimes let our emotions override our judgement. You can with proper husbandry get this little one to a healthy and stress free environment but it will take a lot more effort than if you would have purchased through a reputable breeder.

Follow the guidelines offered by the amazing people here and there is a high chance you will end up with a wonderful pet.

What wattage bulb would you recommend using for a 10 gallon tank to keep the hot side at the correct temp?

I use a 40 red for my 10gallon. I also have a uth as well. Both on the hot side. This also keeps my ambient at 81. I also have an accurite temp/humid digital gauge

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

I use a 40 red for my 10gallon. I also have a uth as well. Both on the hot side. This also keeps my ambient at 81. I also have an accurite temp/humid digital gauge

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the 40 W red also keeps the hot side around 90? Also are you using aspen or eco-earth? Last, where do you keep the temp probe for the UTH

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Originally Posted by pilot

the 40 W red also keeps the hot side around 90? Also are you using aspen or eco-earth? Last, where do you keep the temp probe for the UTH

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The 40 above with the uth keeps the hotspot at 90. I'm using reptile prime which is a coco husk substrate. Eco earth is a coco substrate as well but is dustier and tends to get muddy with too much moisture.

Temp probe one from a thermostat or thermometer? Two different things?

therostat probe goes between the glass and uth.

Thermometer probe usually goes someplace on the Hotside, cool side, and middle or all three. And never use tape inside the enclosure. A hot glue gun works better.

and my accurite thermometer/hygrometer does not have a probe. It sits in the front middle of my tank.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

The 40 above with the uth keeps the hotspot at 90. I'm using reptile prime which is a coco husk substrate. Eco earth is a coco substrate as well but is dustier and tends to get muddy with too much moisture.

Temp probe one from a thermostat or thermometer? Two different things?

therostat probe goes between the glass and uth.

Thermometer probe usually goes someplace on the Hotside, cool side, and middle or all three. And never use tape inside the enclosure. A hot glue gun works better.

and my accurite thermometer/hygrometer does not have a probe. It sits in the front middle of my tank.

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Oops meant the temp probe to the thermostat. Thank you though for the information! It will absolutely help and changes will be made today.

It is often difficult to get the probe wedged between one of those zoomed type heat mats and the glass. One solution is to get some styrofoam or foam board and get a little channel made in it to set the probe into and place the board/styrofoam under the tank with the probe of course positioned in the middle of the UTH. This will still get you the contact with the UTH and provide adequate control without having to worry about the UTH not making contact with the tank.

So it would go from bottom up: Table > styrofoam/foamboard > probe > UTH on glass bottom of tank > tank. Just make sure when you position and place the probe that it is not too deep in the foam that it won't contact the UTH.

Just something to keep in mind if you have trouble positioning the probe.

A 50-60 watt should be fine for a 10 gallon tank should be enough to keep hotside at 90 and cool side around 80 how high is the tank? I know they make some tanks taller then others this will also be a factor in the wattage of bulbs your gonna use but for the most part 50-60 watt should be good for yoir tank size and for the probe placement if you place it between tank and heater your gonna have to set it a bit higher cause your gonna lose a few degrees just through the glass alone not to mention when you add the substrate so keep that in mind

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Originally Posted by Lapara157

A 50-60 watt should be fine for a 10 gallon tank should be enough to keep hotside at 90 and cool side around 80 how high is the tank? I know they make some tanks taller then others this will also be a factor in the wattage of bulbs your gonna use but for the most part 50-60 watt should be good for yoir tank size and for the probe placement if you place it between tank and heater your gonna have to set it a bit higher cause your gonna lose a few degrees just through the glass alone not to mention when you add the substrate so keep that in mind

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Its just a standard 10G tank, assuming 12 inches tall but not 100% sure on that. Also, I'm assuming it wouldn't be a bad idea to occasionaly take the temp inside the hide on the hot side to assure UTH is set to the right temp?

Not a bad idea at all you should always ensure your temps are correct ad yea most standards are 12 inches hight the taller ones are about 16 but yea thats fine then your good woth a 50-60 watt bulb but as i mentioned before if your ball has yet to start feeding start him with something live i guarantee you if your tank is set up correctly he/she will eat like a champ i was driving myself crazy i couldnt get my girl to eat anything she ate one time for me and thats when i left the ft prey in her tank overnight but other then that she would show no interest one time i found her resting her head on the prey like a pillow i was going thru mice after mice and no results i threw in a live fuzzy bro shes been a beast ever since eating regularly every 4-5 days once she reaches about 200 grams then you can convert her to fr when she can go a few weeks refusing but if she hasnt established eating yet thats may be the issue your having

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Originally Posted by Lapara157

Not a bad idea at all you should always ensure your temps are correct ad yea most standards are 12 inches hight the taller ones are about 16 but yea thats fine then your good woth a 50-60 watt bulb but as i mentioned before if your ball has yet to start feeding start him with something live i guarantee you if your tank is set up correctly he/she will eat like a champ i was driving myself crazy i couldnt get my girl to eat anything she ate one time for me and thats when i left the ft prey in her tank overnight but other then that she would show no interest one time i found her resting her head on the prey like a pillow i was going thru mice after mice and no results i threw in a live fuzzy bro shes been a beast ever since eating regularly every 4-5 days once she reaches about 200 grams then you can convert her to fr when she can go a few weeks refusing but if she hasnt established eating yet thats may be the issue your having

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Appreciate the input! I will definitely get on those changes asap! recommendations as to when to try feeding after i make all these changes? also substrate you use to hold humidity? currently have aspen

Eco earth i thinks its also known as cypress mulch its hold humidity vwry well a quick mist in the am and pm your humidity will be perfext you cann also try moss you soak and leave in corners of tank and in hides will do wonders for humidity and wait a week after youvmake changes

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Originally Posted by Lapara157

Eco earth i thinks its also known as cypress mulch its hold humidity vwry well a quick mist in the am and pm your humidity will be perfext you cann also try moss you soak and leave in corners of tank and in hides will do wonders for humidity and wait a week after youvmake changes

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currently have moss for my leopard geckos hide, what would be the best way to use that to increase humidity without getting rid of aspen as well?

If you dont wanna waste the aspen get moss for your tank and soak them then place on all 4 corners of tank also along your water bowl and in hides and also position your waterball closer to warm side as the water evaporates it will create humidity on another note the top of your tank im assuming you have the typical mesh screen all open correct that allows for alot of hunidity to escape i would cover up the top with a damp towel

I would ditch the aspen. I know it sucks to lose money but you're having a humidity problem and it will be better for your snake if you get a substrate that can better hold and tolerate moisture. My recommendations are either eco Earth (coco coir) or some sort of Cypress mulch. Both are good at holding humidity. If it is still completely necessary, get some sphagnum moss and mix it in with the substrate/make little hedges around the edges of the tank. Soak it, wring it out a bit, then place it inside and mist it here and there. if that is STILL not enough, dampen a hand towel and place it over the hot hide. I have had to do all of this, but now my humidity stays at 55-56% throughout the day. It pays off.

Other then that, PLEASE, PLEASE get that other husbandry on point. Your beep will not eat until it is fixed. If there is anything to cut corners on, proper husbandry is not one of them IMO. Even is you get the most inexpensive things that'll do the job, you should still get them. Good luck and I wish you the best!

You definitely don't want to assist feed without experience and exhausting ALL other options FIRST.

Get your husbandry on point, get the snake feeling safe and secure and wait a few days. NO HANDLING until the animal is eating. I personally wait until a new snake has eaten 3 consecutive meals with me, without refusal, before any handling. I always advise this especially with juvenile snakes and new keepers.

Once husbandry and security is in place, try feeding an appropriately sized meal. If it is refused wait a few days and try again. You may need to try offering live a few times before switching over to F/T, but definitely don't try to assist feed again.