F/t or live?

Do you feed f/t or live, and your reason for either? I'm just curious, but am particularly interested in any large scale breeders' response.

For me, I feed live, for my benefit and my snake's. I'm a college student, I have a disability and am in the process of training a service dog and of course I take care of myself. I don't really have time to thaw the rat, spend more time properly heating it(which I sucked at) and then trying to get Khaa to eat it, which he may or may not. Khaa also eats very well on live. He never refuses live, except winter fast of course. I can just drop the rat in there , wait for him to grab it safely(never takes more than a minute), and go.

I feed live because it means I can buy in bulk and I don't have to worry about buying another mouse every week. Plus, in my experience, live are more expensive, and sometimes harder to find. There's the added risk of injuries toward your snake with live, but if you'd feeding responsibly like you say you are, then there should no worries. I feed Calliope live ever now and again, and both work as long as you are doing it responsibly.

When I feed f/t, I just put hot water in a cup, stick the mouse (still in the package) in the cup, and I can work on chores/homework/anything else while the mouse is heating up, so it isn't too time consuming.


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Originally Posted by PythonBabes

Do you feed f/t or live, and your reason for either? I'm just curious, but am particularly interested in any large scale breeders' response.

For me, I feed live, for my benefit and my snake's. I'm a college student, I have a disability and am in the process of training a service dog and of course I take care of myself. I don't really have time to thaw the rat, spend more time properly heating it(which I sucked at) and then trying to get Khaa to eat it, which he may or may not. Khaa also eats very well on live. He never refuses live, except winter fast of course. I can just drop the rat in there , wait for him to grab it safely(never takes more than a minute), and go.

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I feed F/T rats to my ball. She is a really good eater. I take it out defrost in cold water. Takes seconds and I leave it for 90 minutes to 2 hours. Hot water for fifteen minutes. I am not very experienced and probably would get stressed of an injury if I fed live.

I feed F/T cuz it's easier for me, sense I don't have to go out and buy mice each feeding day or care for the live mice until it's time to feed them. For me it's just easier to buy some dead one in bulk. Also I'm paranoid and am scared that when my little ones are big enough to eat full grown rats they might get hurt lol

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It's about being educated and feeding whatever works and is convenient.

I feed live mainly, because it works and when you have a larger collection and your collection collection double or triple during hatchling season, it just make sense.

My colubrids however all feed on F/T, it's a much smaller collection very easy to switch, do not care about what they eat and take live a little to literally.

F/T. Easy to buy in bulk online (6 months worth at a time). Cheaper than purchasing live, and less time consuming than raising my own (I tried that it it was more work and time than I wanted to spend).

If I end up growing my collection and breeding, I will have to raise my own feeders again to feed live to hatchlings at least. If that happens, I may try live with my older BPs, but for me, f/t is idea right now.

I feed f/t. When I researching, it always came up as the safest option, and while I agree with that, it's not always for everyone. No risk of bites or scratches from the prey item, etc. If Maze hadn't switched to f/t I for sure would have gotten a hold of live options, but man am I glad she did lol.

It's just also super convenient for me; all the places that sell live feeders around here have 'limited stock' and only sell them on Fridays, because th.at's when the trucks roll in. So, if I didn't get there soon enough, Maze would just have to wait to eat until I made it in time. (Which is an actual possibility, I have class early in the morning on Fridays until closer to noon.) Not exactly ideal with a baby snake in mind lmao. As for thawing, I just stick it in a bowl for 30 minutes, straight out of the freezer, and it heats right up to the perfect temp.

I've also noticed that unless the prey item is directly in front of Maze, she may not know that it exists. The breeder mentioned something along those lines when she was eating live with them. It could be nothing, but it's reassuring that she won't suffer an injury from not knowing the live feeder was near her. She's a full-throttle strike artist but finding the prey? Good mcLuck my dude, haha.

hmmm i wonder what Zincubus thinks.

:)

I feed both.

I prefer F/T and that is my main method of feeding. For many reasons. It is convenient for me, I don't have a reliable "live" source, I don't have to worry about injuries, my collection is small enough to where it is actually less time consuming to feed F/T.

However...I would NEVER ever not feed a snake live just to make a point or because of my own morals. I have hatchlings and they simply would NOT take f/t as their first meal. So they got live mouse hoppers. At this point I have switched ALL of my hatchlings to f/t. Most of them to f/t rats, a couple still prefer mice. It takes time and patience, but in the long run it will give the new owners "options", so its worth it to me.

The only thing I have a problem with is when people either don't take the time (or research) to do either method RIGHT and then complain about it. Or when people are so close minded that they feel its THEIR way or the highway. Or when people starve their animals rather then to give in and feed them live until they can slowly, safely and patiently be converted to F/T.

What is the maximum time you leave a live rodent in with your ball python? Is 20 minutes too long before checking on them?

I was against feeding live until three of my female breeders stopped eating for six months at a time using fresh killed rats and mice. They all started immediately after I started feeding live. It's actually easier for me to feed live since I breed my own rodents, it's quick, just move a rat from the rat breeding rack right into the snake tub. They are in the same room, super easy. And now all my females are eating.

That's only for my ball pythons though, I feed my King snakes and retics fresh killed, no problem getting them to eat every time. I also have some small Arizona Mountain King snakes, I feed them live mouse pinkies.

By the way, I raise rats in mice in an ARS rodent breeding rack, super easy to feed and clean in a rack system, takes me about an hour a week to clean them and it feeds 26+ snakes. And I usually have an excess of rats and freeze them and trade them for snakes and such with local breeders.

I would think that on a large scale feeding live to ball pythons would be the easiest.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

It's about being educated and feeding whatever works and is convenient.

I feed live mainly, because it works and when you have a larger collection and your collection collection double or triple during hatchling season, it just make sense.

My colubrids however all feed on F/T, it's a much smaller collection very easy to switch, do not care about what they eat and take live a little to literally.

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I use f/t for the simple reason that I can keep a bulk amount of dead rodents in the freezer instead of having to keep a live rodent around to feed my snake. Convenience for me with the added bonus that my snake feed from them without issue.

So in other words, I feed f/t because I can and I hate live rodents.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

hmmm i wonder what Zincubus thinks.

:)

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I don't:rofl:

Anyways, I see what you mean Deborah! That does seem to make more sense.

I got lucky. When I moved, I discovered a very small mom and pop pet shop only about 3 minutes away from my home. Not only do they have excellent care for all of their animals, reptiles included, they also sell live rats. And for some reason live is cheaper than f/t, yay. Only $3 every two weeks.

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

What is the maximum time you leave a live rodent in with your ball python? Is 20 minutes too long before checking on them?

I was against feeding live until three of my female breeders stopped eating for six months at a time using fresh killed rats and mice. They all started immediately after I started feeding live. It's actually easier for me to feed live since I breed my own rodents, it's quick, just move a rat from the rat breeding rack right into the snake tub. They are in the same room, super easy. And now all my females are eating.

That's only for my ball pythons though, I feed my King snakes and retics fresh killed, no problem getting them to eat every time. I also have some small Arizona Mountain King snakes, I feed them live mouse pinkies.

By the way, I raise rats in mice in an ARS rodent breeding rack, super easy to feed and clean in a rack system, takes me about an hour a week to clean them and it feeds 26+ snakes. And I usually have an excess of rats and freeze them and trade them for snakes and such with local breeders.

I would think that on a large scale feeding live to ball pythons would be the easiest.

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They have 10 minutes max before I re-check if even, in my experience if they don't eat soon as I drop the rat, they probably won't (at least for adults) and if it is the case the rat just go in it's corner and groom itself.

Hatchling well it depends but than again when you feed and hatchling the prey can stay longer without posing a risk, fuzzy rats have never hurt anything.

The key to really get a strong feeding response is consistency (feeding the same day every week) and pre-scenting the room by leaving the feeders near the enclosure an hour prior to feed, if you do that the rat will rarely have the time to touch the floor of the enclosure.

I feed f/t because it's convenient for me and my snakes don't mind.

We care for approx 60 or so snakes of various species, all get f/t. I will do a few live feedings if I absolutely have to to get a new addition established before switching but I try to avoid live as much as possible.
I prefer f/t because I can buy in bulk and store, easy to thaw out as needed plus I feel it's safer for the snakes and more humane for the rodents.

F/T for pretty much all the reasons listed above. Convenience, safety, cost. I do switch back and forth from rats and mice if one of my royals refuses feed.

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F/t For the snakes benefit of not getting clawed or bit and for my sanity of not having to put the rodent in there knowing what's gonna happen to it... Not saying I wouldn't in a dire situation as a last resort I just wouldn't watch or stay in the room! Lol

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Originally Posted by omglolchrisss

F/t For the snakes benefit of not getting clawed or bit and for my sanity of not having to put the rodent in there knowing what's gonna happen to it... Not saying I wouldn't in a dire situation as a last resort I just wouldn't watch or stay in the room! Lol

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That's kinda irresponsible to not watch when you feed live. It doesn't bother me. Not gonna say 'that's what would happen in nature' because my snake is in captivity but it takes a lot to faze me.

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Originally Posted by PythonBabes

That's kinda irresponsible to not watch when you feed live. It doesn't bother me. Not gonna say 'that's what would happen in nature' because my snake is in captivity but it takes a lot to faze me.

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I don't really know the protocols for feeding live I've never looked into it because I have never had to hopefully I won't... If I had to i would post on here to find out what's "responsible" or what's not I was speaking hypothetically. I'm easily fazed!

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I feed f/t for a lot of the reasons mentioned above, and also because I would definitely find it hard to second-handedly kill an animal that I once kept as a pet lol. Not throwing any shade on people who feed live, its just for me, f/t is the easiest way to keep my beep full and happy :)

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Originally Posted by PythonBabes

That's kinda irresponsible to not watch when you feed live. It doesn't bother me. Not gonna say 'that's what would happen in nature' because my snake is in captivity but it takes a lot to faze me.

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Irresponsible? I tried to get a snake to eat live that was not eating and I couldn t watch a live animal when it squeaked! I literally was sobbing. I had to leave the room. Not irresponsible, just compassionate. And while I understand it is nature and how it works it does not make me or him irresponsible.

i feed both of of my snakes f/t because 1. It's already pre killed and I dont have to see a live animal perish. My own issue. 2. No harm to my snake for being alive. 3. It's easier to have bulk in the freezer and I can just throw it in hot water. 4. For me it's cheaper. 5. I don't have rat poop or pee in my enclosure. 6. I had rats and mice in high school as pets and...no.

To each their own. I wont put down anyone who feeds their snakes. If they eat, that's what matters.

It is irresponsible. What if the mouse/rat was hurting the snake in the process of it constricting? You wouldn't know and wouldn't be able to stop it because, 'oh its such a cute animal and I can't watch it die'.

Care and the wellbeing of your snake should come before compassion for a mouse or a rat. Continue feeding f/t.

Btw, I also have two pet rats.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

Irresponsible? I tried to get a snake to eat live that was not eating and I couldn t watch a live animal when it squeaked! I literally was sobbing. I had to leave the room. Not irresponsible, just compassionate. And while I understand it is nature and how it works it does not make me or him irresponsible. .

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Oh man.. If I had to feed live, all I would think about would be the sweet faces of Sunshine, Marigold, and Poppy (my previous pet fancy mice).

Some may call me soft for getting so attached to three rodents, but you probably already know that mice are intelligent enough to learn tricks (roll-over, fetch, spin, the list goes on) and they are definitely intelligent enough to be afraid. I personally could not put any living thing into my snake's cage knowing that it was about to die a painful death, and knowing that there was something I could do to avoid it.

Again, if any of you feed live, I'm not judging you. These are just the reasons that I don't :) (I also understand that some snakes will absolutely not take f/t and that live is the only option in these cases)

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Originally Posted by PythonBabes

It is irresponsible. What if the mouse/rat was hurting the snake in the process of it constricting? You wouldn't know and wouldn't be able to stop it because, 'oh its such a cute animal and I can't watch it die'.

Care and the wellbeing of your snake should come before compassion for a mouse or a rat. Continue feeding f/t.

Btw, I also have two pet rats.

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thanks for the judgement. And if they already had a hold of it and if they were already constricting around it no way would I be able to get it out without hurting the snake. I take offense to the irresponsible comment. Not that I would feed live anyway. But if you want to go there....it is irresponsible to feed live to even put your snake in the situation to begin with. So f/t it is so my snakes done even get hurt or even have that chance.

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Originally Posted by PythonBabes

It is irresponsible. What if the mouse/rat was hurting the snake in the process of it constricting? You wouldn't know and wouldn't be able to stop it because, 'oh its such a cute animal and I can't watch it die'.

Care and the wellbeing of your snake should come before compassion for a mouse or a rat. Continue feeding f/t.

Btw, I also have two pet rats.

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And btw you posted to ask a question. And then you call people irresponsible. Why ask when you judged people for having feelings and saying why they don't do live.

In my experience feeding live is way easier for the snake. Just throw the rodent in there and wait for the strike.

HOWEVER, IF they don't eat it, then you have a live rodent on your hands and I have had to care for rodents for days or weeks, while my one snake didn't eat. I have multiple snakes now and it is easier for me to just do F/T, so I can buy in bulk.

If I ever become a serious breeder with dozens of snakes, I will probably just build a rodent room and feed live. It is just so much more natural and simple. With the proper sized meal and proper supervision, there is little danger of a snake injury.

F/T is just easier for me at the moment, but I would prefer to feed live if I had my own rodents.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

And btw you posted to ask a question. And then you call people irresponsible. Why ask when you judged people for having feelings and saying why they don't do live.

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I take that back. Its not irresponsible to leave a live rat in your snake's cage unsupervised, its VERY irresponsible, so there.

And I'm not going to go back and forth with you, sorry. I can make a true statement on the thread that I made and I'm really sorry if you just can't accept that:D

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

And btw you posted to ask a question. And then you call people irresponsible. Why ask when you judged people for having feelings and saying why they don't do live.

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Right? I personally don't care what other people do I just choose not to and to get judged for how i feel about it maybe this person shouldn't ask questions if they don't wanna hear what others have to say plain and simple!

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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

In my experience feeding live is way easier for the snake. Just throw the rodent in there and wait for the strike.

HOWEVER, IF they don't eat it, then you have a live rodent on your hands and I have had to care for rodents for days or weeks, while my one snake didn't eat. I have multiple snakes now and it is easier for me to just do F/T, so I can buy in bulk.

If I ever become a serious breeder with dozens of snakes, I will probably just build a rodent room and feed live. It is just so much more natural and simple. With the proper sized meal and proper supervision, there is little danger of a snake injury.

F/T is just easier for me at the moment, but I would prefer to feed live if I had my own rodents.

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Yeah, that is a downside. I was stuck with a rat for 4 months last year when Khaa went off feed!! Now, I have a rat cage and food sitting around because of that one rat and probably another this winter.

Good thing I don't feed live! My snake won't get hurt.

Your opinion is not fact. End of story! :P:P

Ok people, it looks like there is a need for some "agree to disagree" action around here.

While it is true that not supervising a live feeding is irresponsible, that doesn't mean that someone can't feel uncomfortable while doing it! On the other hand, just because it may seem easier and more comfortable to feed f/t doesn't mean that someone who feeds live is doing the wrong thing.
Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean that their opinions and feeling are nullified.

It is not wrong to feed live, or to feed f/t, it just comes down to the needs of the snake and the personal preference of the owner.

HA! I was the same way when I first started with one snake and a rat that the snake wouldn't eat, ended up with a pet rat. Even had a rat pinky that I tried to feed with infant formula LOL. Now I have a rat rack with 20 tubs and about a hundred rats in there at any one time. It automatically feeds and waters the whole rack, don't even have to mess with it for days and the rats are all happy. If I don't feed my old breeders off to my retics after a year or so they die of old age, and the mice are too old to breed after 8 months and rarely live past a year since their life span is so short. And when I first started out I decided to go with all albino mice since it was hard to feed off the fancy colorful mice, I would get attached. Not so with all albinos. And the albinos can have up to 16 babies, not bad for a mouse! I found the fancy mice would only have 6-8 babies max.

I was in the same dilemma, feeding F/T seems so much more humane. But then which is worse, feeding live or having a snake that won't eat for half a year? I prefer to feed fresh kill, gassed with CO2. But if the snakes won't eat I'll go for the live option, especially if I can get them all to eat prior to breeding season.

I was actually dropping in the live rats and waiting 20 minutes yesterday and today, seems like that's way too long. I'm going to cut back to 10 minutes. My female pieds didn't eat for six months and then I switched to live and fed one snake three medium rats in two days! And the other one took two rats! It's good to see my snakes finally eating again. If I knew they would eat live I would have beefed them up months ago, they have been at 1200 grams for almost a year now, just shy of the minimum 1500 grams. I'm sure in the next month or two they will be up to the proper weight for breeding.

I just bought a female normal het caramel albino ball python that's about 3500 grams, she was actually about 300 grams less than the posted weight, I figured that the breeder just didn't feed her for a long time. That monster of a snake ate five medium rats in just two days! I'm going to pack some weight on her and have some exciting breeding plans for her this year with one of my high end males, should be an exciting project!! She is going to be my 'garbage disposal' for medium rats since my retics outgrew the job. I'll try to feed my other ball pythons a fresh kill and if they don't take it I'll feed it to this monster normal girl. Then I'll backfill with a live feeding.

It is okay to feel uncomfortable while feeding live, I never said it wasn't. Just that personal matters shouldn't get in the way of your snake's well-being.

When I first fed live I did feel uncomfortable and even more unsure and in the minute that it took Khaa to actually get the rat pup, I had to stop myself from reaching in and grabbing it out. Now, almost two years later(can't even believe I've had him that long!!), he still won't touch a f/t rat(I try occasionally), so if its live he wants, that's what he's going to get...

I must be demented a little, because it doesn't bother me at all to feed live. Ive actually laughed a little before, when the kill is particularly dramatic for some reason. Ragnarok once constricted two small rats simultaneously and killed them both at the same time! He also likes to smash them into the side of the enclosure and it is very brutal at times. Violence doesn't bother me and I have hunted animals.. etc.
NATURE.

I prefer F/T for "humane" reasons, since CO2 or pithing is a less painful and terrifying way for the rodents to go then being bitten/constricted. I've owned both (rats/mice & snakes), I completely understand why its hard for some to be there for the actual process of watching their snake kill a rodent. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, as long as it's not putting the snake in a position to be injured by the prey item.

That said, I came into mine knowing he had a bad feeding response/regimen, and knew having to feed live might prove to be something I'd need to consider. Knock on wood, I haven't had to yet. Hope that continues, but will cope if it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

I must be demented a little, because it doesn't bother me at all to feed live. Ive actually laughed a little before, when the kill is particularly dramatic for some reason. Ragnarok once constricted two small rats simultaneously and killed them both at the same time! He also likes to smash them into the side of the enclosure and it is very brutal at times. Violence doesn't bother me and I have hunted animals.. etc.
NATURE.

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Meh, I don't really care anymore either, honestly. My little sisters say I'm horrible for feeding a live rat and then taking Wendi and Bluey(my rats) out for playtime, but beg to go out with me during deer season lol. They claim rats are much cuter and friendlier than deer haha.

I think it's easier to feed live with a rack system. Just open the tub, drop it in, close it up... all you hear is a thump and a squeak. You don't really see anything LOL.

I feed F/T to all my snakes. Like others have stated, it's simply easier to feed and less expensive. Plus it's definitely the way to go if you have more than one snake to feed as you can buy in bulk.

And if you just have the one snake... give it time you will have another very soon!!! LOL :rofl: