Baytril Injections: Questions about my vet's treatment and side-effects of Baytril

Hi guys,

Mods: Feel free to move this if I put it in the wrong sub-forum.

I've had two snakes develop abscesses in the last several months. The first somehow managed to slice his gum which got infected (fed f/t , we're guessing a rat's nail or tooth got hung while he was swallowing). The second, has a swelling on the underside of his jaw (somewhat "pimple" shaped).

I scoured the local area for vets that would even see reptiles and could only find one that was 45 minutes away. We took the first snake there over the summer ( a CA motley boa) and she cleaned the gash on his gum and prescribed Baytril shots... a course of 3, given 3-5 days apart. She refused to let us administer the follow up shots, so we did the 45 minute drive 3 times. She gave the injections in the lower third of his body. She said nothing about giving him probiotics or anything. After treatment, his mouth improved... We waited 2 weeks after last treatment to feed and he fed OK and has showed no negative signs. he does now have "shiney" areas of scales on his back near where the shots were given, but I'm not sure if that is related or not.

When the vet prescribed Baytril without doing a culture, that made me a little nervous, but the treatment worked, so I felt OK going back to her again. At that point, I had not read any of the negative side-effects of Baytril, so I wasn't worried.

Second incident happened a couple weeks ago when I noticed some slight swelling on the underside of my hypo BCI's jaw. This grew and we made an appointment. We took him in yesterday and the vet, once again, prescribed the same treatment. She looked in his mouth and finding no signs of injury inside, said that she thought it was an external abscess and that these can randomly happen.. That we would do the same treatment and watch for signs of it getting better or worse. If the swelling continued, I would have to bring him in for them to keep, aspirate, and clean the abscess. She said that sometimes these abscesses don't go away and just stay the same size permanantly.

So at this point, I've done a little more reading on Baytril, injections, etc. and it seems that the common practice is to give injections to the upper third of the body, to do a culture first, and to preferably use something other than Baytril because Baytril can have harsh side-effects. All that said, I'm in a bad position here, as she is the only exotics vet within driving distance, she apparently knows what she's doing (the local vet school has her do internships and she's had clients come from out of state to see her), and she is pretty much my only option for treatment.

This brings me to my three questions:

1. I need to know if what she is prescribing and how she is doing the injections is truly incorrect and how negative it could be (especially giving the injections in the lower third of the body)?

2. What do I need to look for in terms of negative side effects with the Baytril and what can I do to offset those? I know I read somewhere about probiotics, but have no idea what to get or how to use them.

3. If I have to go to her for treatment again with a different issue, what are some things I can request, without p'ing her off, that will lead to better treatment for my animals (i.e. ask for certain tests, other antibiotic options you'd suggest to request, etc.)?

Thank you for your time and help!

My vet is one of the top three exotics specialists in the nation. He advises giving injections in the front third of the body. Perhaps you should have your vet call him.

One of the known side effects of Baytril is that it can cause tissue damage/necrosis at the injection sites so the "shiny scales" could very well be an adverse reaction. Some snakes get nasty scarring, others don't react at all.

Baytril was (and still is) the go-to antibiotic for reptiles for many years which is why many RI's are resistant to it now. Naxcel and Fortaz injections are also options but Fortaz is expensive and has a short shelf life so many vets don't keep it on hand.

NutriBAC is a powdered reptile probiotic, you can buy it online from several vendors. While the instructions state to add it to your critter's water, I just sprinkle a damp f/t feeder with a pinch of the powder.

Thank you!

I will find the nutriBac online and use it the next time both of them are fed.

I will also ask her about the injection site and tell her that it has been recommended to inject in the upper third of the body.

If you could PM me your vet's name and contact information (in case she asks) that would be great.

Thank you for your time and help.

Confirming that the injections should be in the front third of the body per the two reptile vets I've used over the last 15 years.

edit to add, contact info if she wants more people to confer with -
my first vet is no longer around this area so I'm not sure where he went. My current vet is Dr Gandolfi:
http://cvcah.com/meet-our-team.html

I can also concur with bcr, and AA that the injection of Baytril should be administered in the first one third of the snakes body. It also needs to be injected between the scales so as to avoid or minimize scale scarring and necrosis. Baytril is very harsh on the snakes kidneys as well and they need to be well hydrated at all times while on the medication. Either by drinking water and or soaking on a regular basis. Some exotic vets will administer 3 to 5cc of sterile water in a different injection site for animals on Baytril. Baytril also needs to be administered laterally and along the lateral inter scalation. For another exotic vet reference.

Laurie Hess diplomat DVM
Veterinary Centers for Avian and Exotics
American Animal Hospital Association
Bedford Hills, N.Y. 10507
(914) 864-1414

Thank you all so much for your help and information!

I will certainly gather your references and relay the information to her.

She said that my local vet could administer the second injection (if he is willing to). I am waiting to hear back from his practice to see if he is willing to do an injection and if so, I will bring your information to that appointment as well.

I use SEAVS in Fairfax, VA. They only see exotics and are one of the top exotics practices in the country.
http://www.seavs.com/

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Originally Posted by bcr229

I use SEAVS in Fairfax, VA. They only see exotics and are one of the top exotics practices in the country.
http://www.seavs.com/

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Lol so do I! The vet I usually see there is Dr. Nielsen, she breeds ball pythons and I trust her with Firnen 100% :)

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Originally Posted by Joci

Lol so do I! The vet I usually see there is Dr. Nielsen, she breeds ball pythons and I trust her with Firnen 100% :)

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I've never met her, just Dr. Costanza and Dr. Stahl.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

I've never met her, just Dr. Costanza and Dr. Stahl.

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I met Dr. Stahl when I (ironically) kept pet mice. He and everyone he works with are really some of the most knowledgeable vets when it comes to exotic animals.

Update: One of the vets at my local office said that he'd see Kirby to do the second injection. This guy is retired and only works 2 days a week at the practice. When I told him what was perscribed and asked about her giving the shot in the lower half of the body, he said "no, always in the upper third because of the position of the kidneys" He also said that it could cause kidney issues and ineffectiveness if given in the lower half and pointed out that he always injected it intermuscluarly.

I asked him if he'd be OK seeing my other snakes on future occasions for minor things and he said sure...

All that said, apparently this guy who is retired and went to vet school probably 40 years ago seems to know more about snakes and baytril than the "specialist" I have been going to. :/ It is a shame he only works 2 days a week or I'd be able to see him for everything.

I have to go back to my original vet Saturday for the last injection and will tell her what he said about injecting in the upper third of the body. We'll see how that goes. She always has interns from the university with her, so I'm willing to bet she will be offended that his advice contradicts hers and may even refuse to inject it properly.... Hopefully that won't happen, but I could see it going that way.

My other snake now has some grayish small areas in the lower third of his body...I'm wondering if this is tissue necrosis from his series of injections. He got the injections over a month ago (close to 2 months ago) so I'm not sure. :(

You really don't have to go back to your original vet if you are not satisfied with the care she or he is administering :colbert:. You are the owner of the animal and essentially you are the advocate for the the patient (your snake). It's absurd that the original vet is not on board with your wishes. You have the right to seek the medical care that satisfies you and makes you happy. :D

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

You really don't have to go back to your original vet if you are not satisfied with the care she or he is administering :colbert:. You are the owner of the animal and essentially you are the advocate for the the patient (your snake). It's absurd that the original vet is not on board with your wishes. You have the right to seek the medical care that satisfies you and makes you happy. :D

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Yeah, I agree, but the issue is that literally no one else in the area (within 45 minutes driving distance) will see a snake for anything. If the guy I saw yesterday was working in the time frame that would fit the third injection, I'd see him in a heart beat... But he only works Monday and Tuesdays, which won't fit the antibiotics injection course that the original vet prescribed (every 3-5 days). Hopefully, this will be the last time I will have to go to her...I'll plan on seeing the guy at my local practice for any other services unless it is something severe, in which case I might have to go to Auburn (they only have one exotics guy in their entire vet school apparently, so not sure how that will go).

The vet I saw yesterday was talking with me about it. He said that all the "new doctors" were afraid to see other species and that sometimes you have to be willing to call and get consultations and treat species you weren't super familiar with. He said the university he went to had an exotics department but that now many vet schools do not, so the vets they produce don't want to deal with exotics. Something else interesting that he said, was that there are a lot of overlapping treatments for different species but there are a few contradictions that are important to know. I really liked him, it's just too bad that he is basically retired and working only a couple days a week.

Ask the vet who only works a few days a week if he'd be willing to send you home with pre-filled syringes so you can do the injections yourself at home. It's not difficult to do.

bcr229- I wish that I had thought of that yesterday... For all future appointments, that will be what I do for sure. I'm pretty sure he would be ok with it.