Buying online vs Show

We are looking for our first BP. We are in the process of getting the habitat setup properly ahead of time based on the sticky thread in the husbandry section. Great info there!

We are not breeders (maybe everyone says that at first) so sex is not that important. We are looking at different morphs and probably will stay at $200 or below for this one. We have Repticon Atlanta coming up in a couple weeks and were planning on attending that to look for the BP.

There are are so many beautiful morphs! We are not dead set on one. I love the Pied, my 6yr old daughter is fascinated by the blue eyed leucistic. We also love some of the sugar, pastel, spider axanthic morphs. So beautiful!

Is there any benefit as to buying online from a reputable breeder vs at a show? At the show we were thinking we'd get to talk to the breeder directly, see the snake first hand, handle it a bit and possibly even get better deals at the show on the second day perhaps.

We see a few on morph market that are nice also but weren't sure if we are better off just waiting til the show.

Any thoughts? I know the show doesn't come super often....it'll be nearby in three weeks.

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Originally Posted by The Night King

We are looking for our first BP. We are in the process of getting the habitat setup properly ahead of time based on the sticky thread in the husbandry section. Great info there!

We are not breeders (maybe everyone says that at first) so sex is not that important. We are looking at different morphs and probably will stay at $200 or below for this one. We have Repticon Atlanta coming up in a couple weeks and were planning on attending that to look for the BP.

There are are so many beautiful morphs! We are not dead set on one. I love the Pied, my 6yr old daughter is fascinated by the blue eyed leucistic. We also love some of the sugar, pastel, spider axanthic morphs. So beautiful!

Is there any benefit as to buying online from a reputable breeder vs at a show? At the show we were thinking we'd get to talk to the breeder directly, see the snake first hand, handle it a bit and possibly even get better deals at the show on the second day perhaps.

We see a few on morph market that are nice also but weren't sure if we are better off just waiting til the show.

Any thoughts? I know the show doesn't come super often....it'll be nearby in three weeks.

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I'll be at the same show and attended the last one w/ the same intentions as you. I used my time as mostly an information seeking experience and getting to see all the morphs up close. It wasn't until I was ready to leave that I found the snake that I wanted but it was a little bit older then I wanted and was fed on live food so I left (was very hard to do) empty handed. Luckily, I found a great breeder online who had the same snake (younger and an established F/T eater) and I could not be happier. If you plan to buy at the show, make sure you do your research on the breeders beforehand (list posted online) and ask a lot of questions. In my experience, it was clear who the 'reputable' dealers were at the show. As for price, it's hard to comment on deals because I was more concerned w/ finding a BP that verified my desire to be a 1st time owner with a breeder w/ a good track record rather then a 'good deal'. Good luck!

your daughter sounds like she has good taste. I think the blue eyed leucistic BPs are beautiful!! Not sure how much they cost!

If you want some advice on buying online, you can't go wrong with Garrick at royalconstrictordesigns.com. He's as good as they come.

+1 For Garrick if you go online. I'm a first time owner and had a great experience with him.

As for pieds, I'm not 100% sure on this but I've seen them priced at like $200-350 (for the normal pieds that is) Blue Eyed Lucys, I usually see them priced at over $300, a lot of the time in the $400 range, even $500, but I could be wrong on that as well.

I've never been to a show so I can't give you any advice there, but I hope all goes well! Good luck!

I Got boople at a show. I wanted hands on. I wanted the snake to choose me and boople did in a big way. I also got to talk to the breeder, ask all my questions and bond with my girl. Can't get the hands on online. To each their own and either way you get a snek. Lol

You may have good luck at an expo if you're looking for a BP. There's usually quite a few BPs at the Atlanta Repticon. I tend to stay away from expos and prefer to buy online mainly because I'm afraid to bring home those dreaded mites and also because they don't usually have the snake species I'm most interested in.

i have bought at both expos and online. u save on like $50 shipping and handling by guying at a show. that's pretty cool. but the shows can be busy and chaotic, so sometimes vendors very busy. they may be answering questions from many possible buyers at any moment. sometimes u don't get to talk to the breeder, but one of their helpers.

one time resisted buying at the show. 2-3 weeks later, i called the breeder to f/u on the animal i was interested in. the breeder still had the BP and was within an hour drive of me and i was able to his facility and buy directly.

Matt Gambrel from Olympus Reptiles recently had a little rant on his youtube channel that got me thinking. Now this is just based on his opinion and my feelings about it as well. That is that while you may feel getting the cheapest at an expo or online may be a great deal it might not be the best option or the best thing for the hobby.

He goes into it really well and while I understand a free market economy, I think getting a snake from the best breeder who offers a healthy snake and great service is far more important than saving a few bucks by buying from someone who just wants to offload a morph.

Just my 2 cents.

That's not to say anything about husbandry items. Last day at expos are amazing for getting steals on enclosures and decor items!

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Originally Posted by ckuhn003

If you plan to buy at the show, make sure you do your research on the breeders beforehand (list posted online) and ask a lot of questions. In my experience, it was clear who the 'reputable' dealers were at the show.

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I can't stress this enough as most expos do not vet vendors to ensure they are reputable; anyone who can pay for a table gets one. I wrote this up a while ago on how to research sellers: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...g-Herps-Online

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Originally Posted by SDA

I think getting a snake from the best breeder who offers a healthy snake and great service is far more important than saving a few bucks by buying from someone who just wants to offload a morph.

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I couldn't agree more w/ this statement. I would rather pay more up front for a healthy snake and great service then struggle and potentially pay out more in the long run if I didn't get exactly what I thought I was getting. And this is in no way a bias against expos because I found a few breeders there who I felt really comfortable with; they just didn't have the snake I was looking for.

What I did was go to two shows in a row to personally vet breeders indirectly before making purchases at the second show. Beyond online checkins, I went and saw how they kept the animals at the show, how they interacted with prospective customers, etc.

$200 probably excludes a lot of what you listed in the OP in terms of morphs, unless you somehow luck into a great deal on a pet-only (for whatever reason) animal. Some will give discounts if you follow their FB and pay for the snake before the show. So on.

I have been to the ATL repticon several times and purchased 3 of my BPs, my carpet, and my rainbow boa there. I have also purchased several snakes and other animals online from breeders.

The best thing about the show is getting to see all of the different animals and meet the breeders. That said, the selection isn't always the best. There are usually a lot of BPs there, but there are also a lot of "flippers" (re-sellers) there selling them. I would go to repticon's website and find the vendor list then google them, search on the inquiries forum here, and search on the fauna classafied's BOI forum as well. Personally, I would buy from a breeder, not a flipper (not because they are inherently bad, but you get more info and customer care IMO from a breeder).

You have to weigh the cost of attending the show, the tickets, the gas, etc. vs. the cost of shipping. I was considering going to the ATL show for my most recent pickup, but when I weighed the costs, it was actually cheaper to pay shipping than it was to pay for the gas and tickets.

That said, if you've never been around reptiles in person, attending a show is a good experience.

The moprhs you listed are a little out of your price range IMO. male piebalds and leucys tend to go for 300+... I see most male pieds for $350 and up and most Leucys for around $400. Females are more expensive.

You could easily get a double co-dominant gene combo, especially a male, for your price range though. So something like a pastel enchi, pastave, etc. would easily be found. A male hypo would also be found in your range as well as a bumble bee or other simple spider combo. Male banannas would probably be an option too and possibly an albino.

I'd do a lot of scrolling around on morph market / WOBP before you attend the show. Have several morphs in mind that seem to hit in your price range online.. know what they look like, etc. Also be aware of signs of health / illness. If you see an animal with stuck shed, RI symptoms, thin, etc. keep walking...I've seen several sickly animals at repticon. Some flippers / vendors sell wild-caught animals too, so I'd avoid them as they often house captive-bred near wild caught and they could pick up illness, etc.

I'd also read up on mite treatment and plan on doing a treatment just in case while you BP is in quarantine. Mites are a common issue and it is best to nip them in the bud at first vs. deal with a set-in infestation.

I'd also recommend some local FB groups... Georgia Royal Python Kingdom is a good one to join and post to. You could ask there who is planning on vending at repticon or you may even be able to find a local breeder that way. There are several in our state near ATL or in north GA especially. Albey's Reptiles comes to mind as well as Bob Vu. I'm forgetting others, but you have options. I'm not sure if they will all be vending though. In the past, I've arranged to pick up an animal I already purchased at the show from a person vending there, so you could work something like that out if any of them had what you wanted and were vending.

Good luck and enjoy your first show!

I was at the Atlanta Repticon last April. I had no intention of buying another ball python. I was strictly there to look LoL foolishness. As soon as i got there my head was spinning seeing so many beautiful snakes. I swore i wouldn't buy anything, but my buddy and my wife knew i was lying to myself. Went home with the cutest little baby bumblebee LoL Honestly i probably paid more than she was worth ($150, probably could have gotten one for a lot less), but i couldn't resist those pretty green eyes. She's probably about 7 months old now and shes such a good snake. Im no breeder, so shes just a pet... a great pet.

You will definitely see snakes that you will want there, and many that are in your price range. BUT... you may not find what you really are looking for in your price range... You may not get the best deal... Just stay strong, dont settle for less than you want, you can always find the snake you want, just maybe not at Repticon. That being said, i dont regret my spontaneous decision to buy my new baby one bit LoL she is only the second BP ive gotten in 23 years, but she wont be the last i know that.

Have fun, and enjoy whatever you get

I found mine online from a breeder I knew would be at the show. You can look up their ratings. The great thing was he gave me a a female that was eating ft rats and would be easy for a beginner. Look up who will be there and do some research. Someone on her told me to do that and it worked out perfect. :)

Thanks for all the info! Really great feedback.

So obviously cost is important but not the most important. I listed a few morphs but honestly I spend at least an hour every night scrolling thru morph market and there are beautiful snakes for $75 as well as $5000. This will strictly be a pet, 100% so all the hets etc are truly irrelevant. It's a looks thing for us. I've already started vetting the breeders that are listed for the show and see lots of info online if you take time to do the due diligence.

There are two buying personalities at play here and they are not necessarily intertwined. The first is the snake lover in me and trust me I am a snake LOVER. I've owner several and enjoyed them all. That was pre marriage and certainly pre-kid. So easily 12+ years since last snake, maybe longer. Wife is not a snake person but she doesn't mind them, but she doesn't share my affinity. I have a verbal agreement with all neighbors on my cul de sac that I'll come get any snake if they call me and don't hit it with a shovel. Have recently rescued THREE from neighbors pool area and they were so thrilled they bought me a new snake hook! Couple really large king snakes and a large eastern rat snake. Great snakes.

So the other buying personality is the dad of cool little 6yr old princess-married-happywifehappylife one and that one says that if we get a BP that's super cool looking but wants to pop or tag us everytime we go to handle it it will not last long in the house. It just won't. We have had rescued pets...10 at one time and one of the cats was a biter lol and it just couldn't stay with a little one in the house. Had to re-home it. The BP will need to be something we can interact with and hopefully not freak my daughter or wife out by getting one that just won't calm down. I know it's a possibility - I've had an albino Burmese in college that was super feisty and I could deal with it but current environment is a little different lol - I'm lower down the domestic totem pole - third to be exact tied with the dog lol!

So so while I am definitely feeling going with a reputable breeder- my hope with the show route was that we'd get to find one that was healthy, decent size (160g ish), established F/T feeder and didn't want to tag everyone that picked it up. I haven't had a snake in a while but I had a Columbia red tail for many years and that thing was the bees knees- so affectionate and docile. I miss it!

Sorry for the novel! Great info on this site. Just trying to find a great pet :) That's doesn't bite lol

Hard I know.

TNK

DEEFINITELY GO BUY IN PERSON THEN! You should handle the snake and see for yourself, or have the breeder handle it, to see if its snappy. I would avoid getting a very young hatchling, as they tend to be the most fearful. A subadult or an adult will be more mellow generally, but really you only know if you are in the snake's presence. I bought online, only because I want to breed, and I wanted a very specific, high quality rare morph from a reputable pro, and I wanted to browse hundreds of snakes using a search engine.
I don't care so much about bites, because I am very careful with handling, and I am 100% confident I can "tame" (a contested word around here it seems) a young snake that grows up with me.

I never bought from a show but you can probably get better deals with cash in hand. I went to one a couple months ago with cash in hand to find an MBK but didn't see what I wanted. One of these days I guess.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...1412684d8f.jpg

Shows are a bit like a big flea market. You can offer 10 bucks less for a snake or something like that and often your offer will be accepted if it's not insulting (don't offer 10 dollars for a 20 dollar snake, but offering 280 for a 300 dollar snake is reasonable).

That said, some shows are in smaller venues that REALLY get crowded. I'm talking shoulder to shoulder. I hate it and I go there to get mice and I leave. Earlier this year I met a member of the ssnakess forum to help him with picking out a specific type of snake (water snake, likely to be wild caught). He didn't have much experience potentially buying a WC snake and wanted to have someone there for a second opinion. I was REALLY excited because A its an uncommon species for people to want which I always encourage (sorry BP folks) and B I've never met a random from a forum before. It was a really positive experience to be honest and I'd encourage you to reach out to other Atlantians who might be willing to accompany you so you don't feel nervous.

A tip, go to the reptile show before you buy online. Don't be pressured to buy ANYTHING. Just see what some of these snakes look like in person, you might not be as excited about X BP morph you thought looked so cool online or you may even fall in love with a gopher snake or milk snake or something. It happened to me at my first reptile show 15 years ago where I went with mom and dad to find a grey banded kingsnake and left with a sonoran gopher. You might think you want a banana or whatever ball python but you'll see a perfectly patterned plain Jane hi yellow and not only save money but truly find out what you want or take it home with you. Go with maybe 50 dollars max, anything worth more to you is also worth a trip to an ATM. This will help you with impulse purchases.

That said, make sure you have a terrarium set up before you leave. In the event you make a purchase only a few adjustments are required to change a ball python setup to most any snake's setup.

Just for fun and entertainment of others here are some slightly based in fact people you'll see at reptile shows:

1 - Guy carrying large snake for absolutely no reason - Doesn't matter if its -40 degrees some guy will carry a boa constrictor or something similar into the reptile show. It looks to be in terrible health and its best not to mention it.

2 - Reptile rescue people with large lizard or snake you can pet - Pet the monitor or Burmese python, drop a few dollars in the jar. Many people never get to touch a huge snake or monitor even regular keepers so its really cool, consider adopting one of their ball pythons if that's what you want, they are already quarantined and such so its not the worst idea for a first pet snake.

3 - Guy who smells REALLY bad - This is the guy the media uses to represent the reptile community explaining our poor reputation. He never showers because "his reptiles don't care" completely disregarding that snakes have one of the best senses of smell in the entire animal kingdom.

4 - Know it all explaining to a person who breeds their species that they are wrong - This one isn't as common to see but it for sure happens each show. "Mealworms will eat your lizard from the inside out" or "over head heating will literally kill your snake and collapse the universe" etc. Pretty sad to watch an experienced breeder be completely defeated by not caring at all.

5 - The over aggressive salesman - This is a guy to look out for, "Not only is this wild caught chameleon with ticks on it totally fine, but you can also keep it in a critter keeper and it'll be fine" or the "How much do you have? That'll work" guy. He's also yelling like a fruit salesman at a flea market.

6 - Guy who has an entire conversation with a breeder you want to ask a question to and then doesn't buy anything - Yeah, crap. This guy.

7 - Multiple people behind the table you ask one a question and they never come back - I was inches away from buying like 5 banded geckos and forming a colony. Asked a question about the price that wasn't listed, she said she'd ask. I waited 10 minutes. Helped me avoid an impulse purchase but still, very annoying.

8 - The guy who runs the amphibian table - It's like a zoo, this guy has some of the rarest animals at the whole show (and most don't even have morphs). Definitely take a look even though people are standing in front of the table forever and seemingly never buying anything. Maybe get a inkling for a frog in your future, if not, it's still cool to look.

Anyways good luck at your show and I hope you find what you look for.

Long story, but applicable I think:)

I found that my city was going to be having a reptile show in the fall, so a few weeks prior I started researching the vendors on the vendors list using morph market, google searches, and fauna classifieds. Through all these sites managed to find one vendor that had minimal complaints and mostly fantastic reviews.

From there I went to their site and started looking at all the morphs they had (I was honestly looking for just a normal, but the site didn't show any) so I emailed them to find out if they had any and just weren't advertising them at like 9:00pm figuring they would respond in a day or two...they responded in less that 30 min. The breeder said that they did have some and would be at the reptile show and would be happy to bring a selection of them for me to see, asked if I was looking to breed or had gender preference. We emailed back and forth for a few days, then I started seeing two different snakes on his site that were just amazing looking and not really that high in price (a butter and a pewter)...so I emailed and said that I really liked those two snakes but was it possible to see in person at the show before making a decision - the breeder said as long as they did not sell online first he would be happy to bring them...

turns out I didn't get either because one of his other snakes caught my eye first (what seemed pain and dull online was actually very cool in person), this snake had a great personality when the breeder was holding him, looked healthy, etc. So I got him. This saved me the shipping cost and I got a snake that I was actually more drawn to than the ones I was originally looking at.

Unfortunately it was very busy and I did not have long to talk with the breeder in person, and later that night received an email apologizing for the short amount of time he had to talk along with my new snoots' complete feeding / weight / shed history as well as pics of the parents and his and his parents genetic make up. Throughout the entire process I was amazed that someone would take this kind of time to help a potential customer even before there was any discussion of money, and it speaks to the kind of business being run as well.

Now that I am in the market for a pied, I am hesitant to buy from anyone else.

Note that the venue will be cooler, therefore, even normally "bitey" snakes may be calm because of their temp...so personality could change when you get it home.

I'd suggest looking into the people I mentioned and the local GA group on FB. Inquire of the breeders who will be going to the show. Tell them what you are looking for (size, temperament, budget, feeding on "x", etc.) and see what they have. They should be familiar with their animals and can pick out a calmer individual that feeds well. I have picked up pre-purchased animals at a show before and it went well. They also may be willing to bring an animal for you to see in person if they are already vending with no strings attached.

I purchased a pastel enchi female as my last BP at the ATL show about 1.5 years ago. She was calm as could be there. After being here at my house and warming up, she isn't bitey, but is a defensive hisser and still balls up...won't explore or act calm while being handled like my others. I got her from a bigger breeder, so they didn't know her personality well. Smaller breeders typically have a better read on individual personalities as they have time for handling.

Seconding checking into your local herp society. They show up at the expos and if you're worried about a child, adults are inherently less flighty and bitey b/c they're less terrified of everything. They'll have an established personality already, and you'll be helping out an animal without a home and it'll be a good introductory animal for family members who aren't as into the hobby.

Edit: Had a similar experience to Crowfingers with my BP's breeder (small scale). Gonna be going back to them for the inevitable hognose and/or KSB.

I understand wanting to talk to a breeder, and ask a lot of questions about potential snake purchases, and going to a show seems like the best option. However, don't be afraid to email breeders and ask them questions. I have 2 BPs, and they both came from Garrick from royal constrictor designs. I've asked him an embarrassing amount of questions, and he always answers. I've also spoke to him on the phone once, and he is more than willing to answer question, and give more info than needed.

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Originally Posted by hollowlaughter

Seconding checking into your local herp society. They show up at the expos and if you're worried about a child, adults are inherently less flighty and bitey b/c they're less terrified of everything. They'll have an established personality already, and you'll be helping out an animal without a home and it'll be a good introductory animal for family members who aren't as into the hobby.

Edit: Had a similar experience to Crowfingers with my BP's breeder (small scale). Gonna be going back to them for the inevitable hognose and/or KSB.

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I totally agree with this. We do have a reptile group in Ga (Georgia Reptile Society) and they do have rescue animals available. I think they had some adult BPs the last time I looked. You can check their adoptions page and see if they have any animals you are interested in.

Thanks for the input! I will definitely check that out.

In the meantime my 6yr old keep telling me she wants the white one with blue eyes. I'm assuming this is the BEL but not exactly sure which morph combos this is! I searched leucistic on some of the sites (MM, kingsnake and a few others but it's not coming up a bunch. I did see a few for $300-$400 but still not exactly sure of what morph combo I should be searching for. I did see a few on Craigslist from a few breeders and a really nice looking one about 250g that was described as eating FT and very friendly. But that seems larger than I was expecting - our setup is 24x18x12 ...wouldn't that space be a little small for something 250g?

No, that setup should be fine for a 250 gram snake. Just be prepared that reptiles grow quickly!

I pulled up the Georgia reptile society page and I will definitely be joining thanks for the info. I also saw where they have a link to a level one Venemous handling course that would be really cool come January I may do that also. Don't tell my wife.

Is there any inherent benefit of male vs female? Seems like most of the females are a little more expensive.....I think they generally get a little bigger ...any other pros/cons of the two?

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Originally Posted by The Night King

Is there any inherent benefit of male vs female? Seems like most of the females are a little more expensive.....I think they generally get a little bigger ...any other pros/cons of the two?

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Females are gernally more $ for breeding project purposes. As pets, it makes no difference.

There are a hand full of genes that when put together create a BEL. lesser x lesser(super lesser), butter x butter(super butter), mojave x mojave(super mojave), lesser/butter x mojave, etc. they are all pure white except for the super mojaves. They usually have grayish/purpleish heads. I think the most common is lesser mojaves.

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Originally Posted by The Night King

Is there any inherent benefit of male vs female? Seems like most of the females are a little more expensive.....I think they generally get a little bigger ...any other pros/cons of the two?

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Females on average tend to be better feeders (from what I've been told). and in BPs, being a good feeder is a plus lol. That is another question to ask a breeder... and if you're choosing between similar animals, similar ages, go with the bigger one that eats better. I've had my BPs go on hunger strikes for weeks and even months at a time and it is no fun. Anything you can to do avoid that and get an animal that feeds well and consistently is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by The Night King

Thanks for the input! I will definitely check that out.

In the meantime my 6yr old keep telling me she wants the white one with blue eyes. I'm assuming this is the BEL but not exactly sure which morph combos this is! I searched leucistic on some of the sites (MM, kingsnake and a few others but it's not coming up a bunch. I did see a few for $300-$400 but still not exactly sure of what morph combo I should be searching for. I did see a few on Craigslist from a few breeders and a really nice looking one about 250g that was described as eating FT and very friendly. But that seems larger than I was expecting - our setup is 24x18x12 ...wouldn't that space be a little small for something 250g?

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You can get Leucistic morphs of corn snakes, a few king snakes, and many rat snakes (texas rats to be specific) much cheaper than a ball python that offer the same look. A 6 year old isn't likely to notice the difference plus colubrids are easier to take care of.

How did your show experience go?

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Originally Posted by The Night King

Thanks for the input! I will definitely check that out.

In the meantime my 6yr old keep telling me she wants the white one with blue eyes. I'm assuming this is the BEL but not exactly sure which morph combos this is! I searched leucistic on some of the sites (MM, kingsnake and a few others but it's not coming up a bunch. I did see a few for $300-$400 but still not exactly sure of what morph combo I should be searching for. I did see a few on Craigslist from a few breeders and a really nice looking one about 250g that was described as eating FT and very friendly. But that seems larger than I was expecting - our setup is 24x18x12 ...wouldn't that space be a little small for something 250g?

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Originally Posted by Jhill001

You can get Leucistic morphs of corn snakes, a few king snakes, and many rat snakes (texas rats to be specific) much cheaper than a ball python that offer the same look. A 6 year old isn't likely to notice the difference plus colubrids are easier to take care of.

How did your show experience go?

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i'm not sure he ended up going to the show. i think he bought a Pied online: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-thread-week-1 really nice Pied for sure.