what do people think about brian gundy's humidity recommendation ?

Of course he is a prolific and successful ball python breeder.. at it for decades. He made a youtube video recently saying he is absolutely never concerned with nor does he do anything generally for humidity. It got a little hazy because he said "the only reason I'd be worried about humidity is shedding issues." He didn't mention if he does anything during shedding to up the humidity. He said something to the effect of "bacteria needs heat and humidity to thrive, why would you want to keep your snakes on what will become a virtual petri dish through your combining heat and humidity?"
So what do people think? He isn't the first person I've heard/seen say something similar. Then you'll also get people who say they need 60+ % all the time, not just when in shed.
I talked to one breeder who said anywhere from 40-75%. Like what?? 40-75% ? That's a huge range.

I've also seen it said that too low of a humidity can cause respiratory infections, but others say only low temperatures cause respiratory infections and humidity is irrelevant.

Would be nice to have some clear answers? Any definitive sources?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by illaoi

Of course he is a prolific and successful ball python breeder.. at it for decades. He made a youtube video recently saying he is absolutely never concerned with nor does he do anything generally for humidity. It got a little hazy because he said "the only reason I'd be worried about humidity is shedding issues." He didn't mention if he does anything during shedding to up the humidity. He said something to the effect of "bacteria needs heat and humidity to thrive, why would you want to keep your snakes on what will become a virtual petri dish through your combining heat and humidity?"
So what do people think? He isn't the first person I've heard/seen say something similar. Then you'll also get people who say they need 60+ % all the time, not just when in shed.
I talked to one breeder who said anywhere from 40-75%. Like what?? 40-75% ? That's a huge range.

I've also seen it said that too low of a humidity can cause respiratory infections, but others say only low temperatures cause respiratory infections and humidity is irrelevant.

Would be nice to have some clear answers? Any definitive sources?

---

its a topic that I've struggled getting clear answers too. For the life of me, I've tried everything but I can't seem to get the humidity lower then in the 80s. There's no condensation so I've passed it off as being ok.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by illaoi

Of course he is a prolific and successful ball python breeder.. at it for decades. He made a youtube video recently saying he is absolutely never concerned with nor does he do anything generally for humidity. It got a little hazy because he said "the only reason I'd be worried about humidity is shedding issues." He didn't mention if he does anything during shedding to up the humidity. He said something to the effect of "bacteria needs heat and humidity to thrive, why would you want to keep your snakes on what will become a virtual petri dish through your combining heat and humidity?"
So what do people think? He isn't the first person I've heard/seen say something similar. Then you'll also get people who say they need 60+ % all the time, not just when in shed.
I talked to one breeder who said anywhere from 40-75%. Like what?? 40-75% ? That's a huge range.

I've also seen it said that too low of a humidity can cause respiratory infections, but others say only low temperatures cause respiratory infections and humidity is irrelevant.

Would be nice to have some clear answers? Any definitive sources?

---

I've read all the different opinions on this as well. Mine always stays around 58 in the tub. So I just leave it. Mind you I haven't gone through a shed yet.

They definitely get dried out in a glass enclosure with a heat lamp. For sure! Brian keeps them in plastic tubs with infrared heat tape and they stay plenty humid naturally that way. For people with tubs, I think Brian is correct in not worrying about it.
For people using large, screened enclosures, or use heat lamps and such that dries the air out, then keeping up humidity it IS IMPORTANT.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Godzilla78

They definitely get dried out in a glass enclosure with a heat lamp. For sure! Brian keeps them in plastic tubs with infrared heat tape and they stay plenty humid naturally that way. For people with tubs, I think Brian is correct in not worrying about it.
For people using large, screened enclosures, or use heat lamps and such that dries the air out, then keeping up humidity it IS IMPORTANT.

---

But is it important only because they need humidity to shed properly? Or because they are inherently healthier at higher humidity

I believe they are healthier overall at a higher humidity.

He probably doesn't have to worry about humidity because his humidity in the enclosures is within parameters without him doing anything.

My natural humidity here in Florida is often higher than even recommended. Someone in a dry MidWest state may have major issues without taking particular care with their enclosures.

People who use tubs and racks often have no issues. People using tanks with screen and lamps have to be more careful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by illaoi

But is it important only because they need humidity to shed properly? Or because they are inherently healthier at higher humidity

---

Ok several things about this because it keeps coming up. Brian Gundy has been working with snakes in that area for decades. He knows the ins and outs of the Berkley weather as well as his enclosures and the building he keeps them in. Once you have a stable room that you keep a certain level year round and once you have worked with the same conditions long enough you just know. Somewhat like a professional chef after so many years doesn't need to bother knowing how hot a pan is anymore.

Now on to proper humidity. We don't keep ball pythons in their native habitats so we have to emulate conditions that will allow them to live healthy lives. This means keeping a constant range of temperature and humidity. What hobbyists and breeders alike have learned over the years is that if your ball starts to be in condition of sub 50% humidity in their enclosure they run the risk of developing respiratory ailments. This can also lead to digestive problems and stressed out conditions. On the opposite end of the spectrum, if you were to keep your ball in a 100% humid enclosure with damp substrate and wet walls, it will often result in skin ailment and conditions.

It's common held experience that the ideal range to try and hit is somewhere around 50-70% for their day to day needs and slightly higher for shedding. That is not to say every owner must scramble to up the humidity during a shed. I know several breeders and friends who have kept their enclosure around 60% all the time and still have perfect sheds.

The idea of a 70% humidity increase or a temporary wet hide is a tried and true method many owners use to alleviate the uncertainty of their snakes' shedding process.


So yes, it may be necessary to increase humidity or offer a humid environment hide to shed properly (mine needs this) and yes higher humidity of 50-70% is beneficial to their respiration and over all health but excessive humid conditions can lead to skin issues as they are not semi aquatic mud dwellers like those filthy anacondas!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDA

Ok several things about this because it keeps coming up. Brian Gundy has been working with snakes in that area for decades. He knows the ins and outs of the Berkley weather as well as his enclosures and the building he keeps them in. Once you have a stable room that you keep a certain level year round and once you have worked with the same conditions long enough you just know. Somewhat like a professional chef after so many years doesn't need to bother knowing how hot a pan is anymore.

Now on to proper humidity. We don't keep ball pythons in their native habitats so we have to emulate conditions that will allow them to live healthy lives. This means keeping a constant range of temperature and humidity. What hobbyists and breeders alike have learned over the years is that if your ball starts to be in condition of sub 50% humidity in their enclosure they run the risk of developing respiratory ailments. This can also lead to digestive problems and stressed out conditions. On the opposite end of the spectrum, if you were to keep your ball in a 100% humid enclosure with damp substrate and wet walls, it will often result in skin ailment and conditions.

It's common held experience that the ideal range to try and hit is somewhere around 50-70% for their day to day needs and slightly higher for shedding. That is not to say every owner must scramble to up the humidity during a shed. I know several breeders and friends who have kept their enclosure around 60% all the time and still have perfect sheds.

The idea of a 70% humidity increase or a temporary wet hide is a tried and true method many owners use to alleviate the uncertainty of their snakes' shedding process.


So yes, it may be necessary to increase humidity or offer a humid environment hide to shed properly (mine needs this) and yes higher humidity of 50-70% is beneficial to their respiration and over all health but excessive humid conditions can lead to skin issues as they are not semi aquatic mud dwellers like those filthy anacondas!

---

well then his video was terribly pointless and misleading.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

I believe they are healthier overall at a higher humidity.

He probably doesn't have to worry about humidity because his humidity in the enclosures is within parameters without him doing anything.

My natural humidity here in Florida is often higher than even recommended. Someone in a dry MidWest state may have major issues without taking particular care with their enclosures.

People who use tubs and racks often have no issues. People using tanks with screen and lamps have to be more careful.

---

I'd even reach and say as a species that's inclined to a sub-Saharan climate with "rainy seasons" and wild feeding schedules that coincide with those due to prey breeding periods (IIRC) the humidity may make them think it's "rainy season" to keep their appetite up as well. Thus why low humidity is seen to sometimes tie into food refusal or fasting.

If you live somewhere where humidity is in the proper range you don't need to worry much about humidity inside the enclosures. He's been working with the animals long enough to know that the relative humidity where he is located is within the proper range for BPs to live safely and thrive. Humidity can be zapped out of enclosures by heat, so, depending on how you heat your enclosure, you may need to adjust regardless of where you live and relative humidity there. He has his work down to a science and is at the point where he no longer worries about humidity because his environment, setups, etc... are all within range and have been for years.

Yea see my problem is that I have 8 ft of bearded dragon heat that sucks out the humidity along with the three other heat lamps in the room that's 9x9 so even in Florida that room can get grossly warm. Humidity in the house stays around 55-60% but in that rooms sucks it down to 35-40 depending on how much it rains.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aerries

Yea see my problem is that I have 8 ft of bearded dragon heat that sucks out the humidity along with the three other heat lamps in the room that's 9x9 so even in Florida that room can get grossly warm. Humidity in the house stays around 55-60% but in that rooms sucks it down to 35-40 depending on how much it rains.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

In that case, I'd just keep them in a tub / rack setup and use a substrate that will retain some humidity without molding, like reptichip / prococo. The substrate doesn't have to be wet, but provide a good sized water bowl in the setup and see what you get.

That's really interesting, I've never heard of not worrying about the humidity. I'd really like to know what his ambient humidity in his house is, I'm surprised he never even measured it? I can't seem to find his address, where is he located? I'd like to know what the ambient humidity is where he lives. Personally I'd like to try a newspaper substrate with no humidity too if I can pull it off. Great post, thanks for sharing!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by artgecko

In that case, I'd just keep them in a tub / rack setup and use a substrate that will retain some humidity without molding, like reptichip / prococo. The substrate doesn't have to be wet, but provide a good sized water bowl in the setup and see what you get.

---

Sadly I'm not fond of the tub/rack setup, the room for us is designed for a more visual encounter, I have my niece and nephew over a bit and they love seeing all the reptiles and I honestly don't mind the small amount of extra care I have to have for humidity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aerries

Sadly I'm not fond of the tub/rack setup, the room for us is designed for a more visual encounter, I have my niece and nephew over a bit and they love seeing all the reptiles and I honestly don't mind the small amount of extra care I have to have for humidity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

I'm with you on this one. I love display setups and personally wouldn't want my animals in racks where I couldn't enjoy them as much visually. I'm willing to put in the work to maintain proper husbandry.
I really want to get going on a stackable PVC enclosure setup though. I want to grow my reptile family without sacrificing visual appeal and without having glass enclosures EVERYWHERE in my house :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by craigafrechette

I'm with you on this one. I love display setups and personally wouldn't want my animals in racks where I couldn't enjoy them as much visually. I'm willing to put in the work to maintain proper husbandry.
I really want to get going on a stackable PVC enclosure setup though. I want to grow my reptile family without sacrificing visual appeal and without having glass enclosures EVERYWHERE in my house :D

---

lol I hear ya, I have 20+ feet of glass enclosures 6 total enclosures in one room 🤣 three BP a RTB and two dragons [emoji13]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aerries

lol I hear ya, I have 20+ feet of glass enclosures 6 total enclosures in one room 🤣 three BP a RTB and two dragons [emoji13]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Hahahaha, right? I have glass everywhere too. Snakes, Skink, fish. Plus the ferret enclosure (6'x6'x4' closet I turned into their enclosure). So hoping PVC will allow me to consolidate and grow at the same time :D

I remember watching that Brian Gundy video and found it confusing too. Northern California tends to be humid.

I've been thinking about humidity a lot recently. New Mexico is dry, and my native "dry" Sonoran Gopher and Rosy Boa have been kept in dry glass tanks, Reptichip substrate. However, in the wild, these desert snakes spend most of their time under rocky sheltered areas, near the damper ground. They (Rosy Boas excepted??) venture out mostly at night. The thing about the Trans Pecos specifically, is they really need good ventilation if they are to remain healthy long term in captivity, and if tubs are used, the tubs should be drilled on the sides. Rhodes says these snakes can and do thrive in even FL humidity; they just need good air exchange.

Back to BP's, this is likely what Brian Gundy was getting at, but he explained it in a confusing way; he said, damp air breeds bacteria. Well, damp stagnant air breeds bacteria. Also, he wasn't taking into account his own mild climate, and he wasn't addressing the many BP owners who struggle with dry stuck sheds. He just shows his own box of complete intact sheds, and says, "Don't worry about humidiy." Well, that is NOT the experience many others are having , and it's NOT helpful!

After reading Rhode's The Complete Suboc, I decided to take Rhode's advice, and offer a humid hide to the Trans Pecos Rat and my other two "dry" snakes. I chose the usual plastic "Tupperwares" that were suitable sized for each snake, cut a hole three times the snake diameter, and stuffed the thing with moist "Forest" moss. Basically standard advice for BP's in dry atmospheric conditions. My snakes do spend time in those,and the Rosy has actually stopped cruising. (I was getting concerned for her - she was testy, she wanted something, and I wasn't sure what was needed.)

So, my take on this is: when in doubt, offer a humid hide. Then, you don't have to worry so much about accurately measuring humidity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by distaff

I decided to take Rhode's advice, and offer a humid hide

---

Just a tip, might need to make sure those humid hides are only offered during shed cycles.

A lot of snakes that don't require high humidity outside of shed can develop skin conditions if they start to get "addicted" to staying in a humid hide all the time. Might not be a problem and it might be perfectly ok to keep one in the enclosure but keep an eye out if they start to stay in there all the time.

Brian's video was also discussed in this thread and my response is there (I'm in the same area as Brian): https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...umidity-really

I never worry about humidity with any of my snakes either. My humidity has ranged anywhere from 30-65%, depending on the season, and I've never had a bad shed or RI. I believe that hydration is more important than humidity with most snakes but there are some species like BRBs where higher humidity is definitely required.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SDA

Just a tip, might need to make sure those humid hides are only offered during shed cycles.

A lot of snakes that don't require high humidity outside of shed can develop skin conditions if they start to get "addicted" to staying in a humid hide all the time. Might not be a problem and it might be perfectly ok to keep one in the enclosure but keep an eye out if they start to stay in there all the time.

---

Hmmm...
Maybe they just prefer something about that particular hide? I have extra identical "Tupperwares." I am going to make dry hides with them - same box, same moss w/o water, and see what the snakes do. Will keep an eye on it. Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aerries

Sadly I'm not fond of the tub/rack setup, the room for us is designed for a more visual encounter, I have my niece and nephew over a bit and they love seeing all the reptiles and I honestly don't mind the small amount of extra care I have to have for humidity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Then keeping something to cover most of the screen top (if using glass tanks) will help. Use plexi glass or foil... There is a sticky somewhere on the forum about making a foil cover for a screen top that holds humidity very well. Using a substrate that helps with humidity should also help, but covering most of the screen lid will do the lion's share of the work.

I've kept my bp in 70-88% humidity since I got him, zero signs of respiratory problems or infection, I prefer to keep him at higher humidity than 50-60% anyway because I think higher humidity is beneficial to the snake and also removes the stress / hassle of having to up the humidity during shed cycles. If you look at the humidity levels in West and Central Africa it's way closer to the 70% and high 80s range than it is 50-60%. That seems more like the bare minimum of the humidity you should provide bp's imo. But I guess in the end it's about personal preference while also keeping the snakes' health in mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by artgecko

Then keeping something to cover most of the screen top (if using glass tanks) will help. Use plexi glass or foil... There is a sticky somewhere on the forum about making a foil cover for a screen top that holds humidity very well. Using a substrate that helps with humidity should also help, but covering most of the screen lid will do the lion's share of the work.

---

I've actually tried the foil approach and did nothing for me....just a wet towel over the screen works best...every situation is different and like I said before if I still come home every day have have to do that little extra maintaining for my beeps then so be it. I love my animals because they are the only children I'll ever have.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iddah

I've kept my bp in 70-88% humidity since I got him, zero signs of respiratory problems or infection, I prefer to keep him at higher humidity than 50-60% anyway because I think higher humidity is beneficial to the snake and also removes the stress / hassle of having to up the humidity during shed cycles. If you look at the humidity levels in West and Central Africa it's way closer to the 70% and high 80s range than it is 50-60%. That seems more like the bare minimum of the humidity you should provide bp's imo. But I guess in the end it's about personal preference while also keeping the snakes' health in mind.

---

So glad to hear this because I feel like I'm stuck in this 70-88% range....no matter what I do short of getting a new enclosure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ckuhn003

So glad to hear this because I feel like I'm stuck in this 70-88% range....no matter what I do short of getting a new enclosure.

---

Are you still using newspaper/paper towels or did you switch to something else? I've been baking my substrate to help get rid of some of the excess humidity, plus keep any nasty bacteria/bugs at bay. I ran into a similar issue when I didn't bake it at a high enough temp, although my regular ambient humidity around the house is closer to 45, 50%. If you're wanting to do coco husk, maybe cook it in the oven for about an hour, maybe two, at 300 degrees F? Seems to help keep the substrate dry-ish but not dusty for me. (The top layer dries out under my CHE so it lowers the humdity from 75% to about 60% on the hot side. Cool side maintains a 70%. Love it).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starscream

Are you still using newspaper/paper towels or did you switch to something else? I've been baking my substrate to help get rid of some of the excess humidity, plus keep any nasty bacteria/bugs at bay. I ran into a similar issue when I didn't bake it at a high enough temp, although my regular ambient humidity around the house is closer to 45, 50%. If you're wanting to do coco husk, maybe cook it in the oven for about an hour, maybe two, at 300 degrees F? Seems to help keep the substrate dry-ish but not dusty for me. (The top layer dries out under my CHE so it lowers the humdity from 75% to about 60% on the hot side. Cool side maintains a 70%. Love it).

---

Yes, I'm still using unprinted paper from Home Depot. I would of loved to continue to use my Reptichip but that seems like a lot of work I think it basically comes down to the pvc enclosure I'm using holds humidity (regardless of the substrate I use). And it's not like I have the water bowl filled to the top.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ckuhn003

Yes, I'm still using unprinted paper from Home Depot. I would of loved to continue to use my Reptichip but that seems like a lot of work I think it basically comes down to the pvc enclosure I'm using holds humidity (regardless of the substrate I use). And it's not like I have the water bowl filled to the top.

---

That sucks :c. Like I said, baking it does remove a lot of humidity, so if you really wanted to use it you could try baking it dry-- 350 degrees F for two hours does that pretty well, and still no dust.

Living in the bay area and I do talk to Brian from time to time and I do the same thing as well. When the snake is in blue or in shed, he mists them with a spray bottle all over their body and then just leaves them alone. I do the same thing too and I keep my snakes in a rack system. I really don't focus on humidity that much either. I care about the hot spot for the snake, mites/sickness from the animal, and if the snake is eating or not. But this is just the area that I live in and the system that I have. I keep my snakes in a bit smaller tub where the water bowl is also their hide so the water bowl goes over the heat tape and creates some humidity, but I've never measured the humidity of the tubs and never will. Never had a bad shed, never had a sick snake, or a snake that go off food due to bad habitat.