Hypo/Ghost questions

Well starting to think ahead to next year's purchase and Mike's getting really interested in hypo's (thanks to Adam's raving about them LOL).

So of course I've done a ton of research online and saved a LOT of links and have come up with my usual tons of questions for you all (apologies as always for my unendingly inquisitive mind).

First off, is it proper to call them Hypos or Ghosts....seems to be they are called both on different sites.

Secondly, there seems to be Green, Orange, Yellow, Butterscotch, Blonde and White (Desert) Hypo's. Have I missed any? Or are some of those names just different names for the same morph?

Next and very confusing to me. Are some lines or colors of hypo's not able to breed "true" with other lines/colors? Seems I read on the NERD site about that and the breeding only produced normals instead of the desired recessive trait being expressed.

I have seen Hypo's referred to as a must have, "foundation" type morph (much as pastels are and one of the reasons we are purchasing our pastel from Adam). Is this because the hypo crosses so well into other morphs, for example the Hypo Mojave, the Pastel Ghost, etc.?

Is it correct to say that the breeding of a Hypo into another morph lightens or "blurs" the color/pattern somewhat?

Do all hypo's have a clear shed and is this an identifier for this morph?

What in heck is a "True Ghost"?????

If you had to choose only one hypo to start with...which one would you choose? I know this is partly based on what each person would find personally appealing but I'm thinking more from the investing for future breeding projects down the road thing.

As always, thanks and apologies for my book length posts :oops: You can all gang up and beat me with a frozen rat if you feel you must but please remember this is all Mike's fault for buying me my first ball python for Mother's Day! LOL



~~Jo~~

hypos are cool, they brighten up any morph! there are alot of hypo lines out there. yes, hypos shed clear no pattern. do some research and find out which one you like best and then pick a good breeder. i personally like the yellow ones, they seem brighter to me than most orange/butterscotch lines. i know adam has some het hypo babies and he has some green ghosts that he may breed this season. joe compel has some awesome hypos and alot of knowledge with this morph.


vaughn

adam would certainly be the man to contribute to this thread. but here are a few statements from my own research that i believe to be true:


people commonly refer to this trait as "ghost" due to its faded almost "ghost" like appearance. the term hypomelanisitc would be defined, in simplest terms as a reduced amount of "dark" or "black" pigment. hypo, meaning less than normal...and melanistic, referring to the dark brown or black pigment, or simply melanin.

because some normal animals do show a reduced amount of melanin, one of the defining characteristics of a ghost is that it DOES shed clear, while the normal critters will display a pattern.

a true ghost is normally referred to by most as a hypo axanthic, if'n i have my facts in order. i have to state tho...i have yet to see one.

and you are correct in your statement that some hypo traits are not compatible with others as kevin stated in his website. as far as the desert ghost, i believe tracy barker had one or two animals that displayed the desert ghost appearance that proved not to be an inheritable trait. although there may be others that have that i am not aware of. if you discover a line that has proven to be inheritable i'd love to hear about. i think they're awesome!

i've spent a small fortune on balls this season and the hypo i acquired from joe c. is perhaps one my favorites :-)

http://www.extremepythons.com/butterscotch-m.jpg

Hypo's are pretty cool. I think you should get one as an investment becuase I personally think they are part of the Platty Puzzle. And if it is true that the hypos are part of teh platty puzzle then the price will eventually go up.

can you explain the hypo/platty puzzle idea?


vaughn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kavmon

can you explain the hypo/platty puzzle idea?


vaughn

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Well the original platty is very "hypo" very light shaded and faded on the sides. So far none of the offspring have been able to looks like the orig. platty. That is why they are called Lessers becuase they are I dunno lesser of a platty :)

The Platty hasn't been produced by Lesser x Lesser. (what RDR got was a Lueistic which is equally cool) . I think the original platty somehow has somekind of a hypo trait. I am not sure ,but no one knows yet and Ralph is pretty close to finding out what makes a platty

i think ralph got plattys by breeding lesserxnormal sibling. i can see where you think that, but if hypos are in the mix i think someone would have picked up on this by now. hypos shed clear with no pattern and have a unique look.


vaughn

wait ralph got platties ! I got to check this out! To RDR away!

edit: I checked it out and he had some babies from Platty Daddy x "Normal" (it is a sibling of a lesser clutch) and he got some that look very close to the dad.

Wow the genetics on this are confusing.

Anyways lets get back to Hypo Ghost. I prefer to call them Hypos.

Willy she's gorgeous! Is she an orange hypo? I still don't know quite how to tell one from the other really. Joe does have some lovely ones and a few package deals so I see.

Can't wait for Adam to comment as I know he's very into hypo's (dang him for tweeking my hubby's interest in hypos....I was planning on a new couch this spring!)


~~Jo~~

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Well starting to think ahead to next year's purchase and Mike's getting really interested in hypo's (thanks to Adam's raving about them LOL).

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Thinking ahead to next year's purchases.......sounds like you have got the bp bug......bad.:) Adam has some great animals, I am sure you won't be disappointed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

First off, is it proper to call them Hypos or Ghosts....seems to be they are called both on different sites.

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In many other reptiles species that are "morphed out" breeders work towards producing a designer morph called a ghost......it is a cross between an axanthic and a hypo or an anerythristic and a hypo. In the ball python world, keepers refer to this as the "true ghost".
The confusion started when the first hypo balls were called ghosts due to their ghostly appearance. I like to call them hypos because I know the double homozygous ghost will be produced one day (AKA - the "true ghost").

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Secondly, there seems to be Green, Orange, Yellow, Butterscotch, Blonde and White (Desert) Hypo's. Have I missed any? Or are some of those names just different names for the same morph?

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I have seen all of those names tacked onto hypos. The problem is that there are no "set boundaries" between the colors. When you see enough of them, you can say.....yep, that is a green hypo or that is a yellow. NERD has a line that is ORANGE. However, it isn't always that clear......sometimes what one person calls a green hypo looks like an old yellow hypo to me. I call my hypos butterscotch hypos because to me they are not quite yellow or orange but rather a blend of the two.
I have a feeling that the colors and lines will be more easily distinguished as breeders work to refine the colors.
I am sure will see new colors added to this list as there are some neat animals lurking around that may fit into the hypo category........... :devilish:
Desert ghosts appear to be a different mutation than traditional hypos.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Next and very confusing to me. Are some lines or colors of hypo's not able to breed "true" with other lines/colors? Seems I read on the NERD site about that and the breeding only produced normals instead of the desired recessive trait being expressed.

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At this point, it seems most are compatible and it seems that you can "mix colors". However, there have been a handful of "hypo" breedings that did not produce hypos. I know a couple of these breedings involved a parent that was a questionable hypo.......my guess is that these questionable hypos were not hypos but some new morph that has a subtle difference than a hypo.
I know Greg Graziani has a line that is not compatible with the traditional hypos.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

I have seen Hypo's referred to as a must have, "foundation" type morph (much as pastels are and one of the reasons we are purchasing our pastel from Adam). Is this because the hypo crosses so well into other morphs, for example the Hypo Mojave, the Pastel Ghost, etc.?

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Big time......the hypo gene has a lot to bring to the table.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Is it correct to say that the breeding of a Hypo into another morph lightens or "blurs" the color/pattern somewhat?

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I wouldn't say it blurs the pattern but it has the potential to change the colors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Do all hypo's have a clear shed and is this an identifier for this morph?

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Yep.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

What in heck is a "True Ghost"?????

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Take a look at Willy's hypo........imagine erasing the yellow tones......that's what a true ghost might look like.
You would have to breed a hypo to an axanthic to produce double hets. Breed the double hets together and if you hit the 1 in 16 shot you could produce the true ghost.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Can't wait for Adam to comment as I know he's very into hypo's (dang him for tweeking my hubby's interest in hypos....I was planning on a new couch this spring!)

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Wow, almost missed this one ... it didn't show up when I clicked "new posts"???

I think Joe about answered them all Jo. Ditto to everything he said. Just a few more random thoughts ...

As far as the compatibility goes, just make sure you talk to the breeder you get your hypos or het hypos from ... a good breeder will "know" if they are sending you something that will "work" with other hypos ... there are very few hypo-ish animals out there that are not compatible and lots of people selling het hypos from unproven animals that are indeed light, but probably normal so be careful.

Hypos work well with other morphs because they decrease the dark pigment (melanin) giving the snake an overall brighter appearance. There are only a few hypo combos compared to the big picture, so the future is "bright" for the hypos.

One of the things I love about hypos as an investment animal is that their price is on the rise .... Long time ago I paid $750 for a hypo male and $1,200 each for a couple of hypo females and today those prices are doubled at least ... I wouldn't think about selling a hypo girl for anything!! :D

As far as the platty hypo comments ... Lesser platties have been bred to hypos to produce lessers het hypo .... There's no hidden hypo gene in the lessers.

I think that's all I've got for now!! ... HYPOS ROCK!

(This message is certainly biased because I own and sell hypos ... someone that doesn't own hypos might feel otherwise ... take it for what it's worth :P )

LOL

ROCK ON!

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

As far as the platty hypo comments ... Lesser platties have been bred to hypos to produce lessers het hypo .... There's no hidden hypo gene in the lessers.



-adam

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Wow no hypo gene.

What genetics are the Platties ? The genetics for Lessers and platties are really confusing. Hmm man the platty daddy at RDR is very Hypoish as it is , hmm add a hypo to that and presto , Really cool bp

thanks jo. apart from the amazing paint job, who couldn't love that face. bp's are just so much fun to keep!

I'm biased too......hypos are among my favorites.......they are way under rated :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by willy2.0

thanks jo. apart from the amazing paint job, who couldn't love that face. bp's are just so much fun to keep!

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Willy's got the bp bug too......got it bad;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kavmon

i think ralph got plattys by breeding lesserxnormal sibling. i can see where you think that, but if hypos are in the mix i think someone would have picked up on this by now. hypos shed clear with no pattern and have a unique look.

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yeah....it doesn't look like the traditional hypo gene is at work there. But it sure does look like there is something subtle hidden in that mix. The platty is a killer morph.......you never know what you are going to get.

Oh yeah....Adam got me thinking. There are also burgundy hypos or burgundies and chocolate hypos. Few of these lines have been proven but in my eyes they are totally different than traditional hypos. Variations on a theme......but definitely not the same. I have a couple different burgundy animals.......I bred one to a hypo last year.....I hatched "double hets". I don't even know if the burgundy female is genetic......time will tell. Here is a picture of the pair:
http://www.joecompelreptiles.com/ima...rg_type_04.jpg

Forgot all about the burgs and chocolates ... I've dropped off the "hypo" when talking about them at this point. It's always just added more confusion than it's worth.

Hot burg Joe!! .... If those dbl hets hit for you, I hope I'm on a list somewhere at your place!! :D ... At least a little post-it note. :P

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Forgot all about the burgs and chocolates ... I've dropped off the "hypo" when talking about them at this point. It's always just added more confusion than it's worth.

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Me too.........burgundy and chocolate to me. I just wanted to throw it out there.........you know how the classifed boneheads try to make something out of something that isn't :mad: I am sure that some of the burgs will prove out though.....it will be neat to see how things go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Hot burg Joe!! .... If those dbl hets hit for you, I hope I'm on a list somewhere at your place!! :D ... At least a little post-it note. :P

-adam

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Thanks......she is pretty......better looking than in that picture. Doesn't everyone say that though? Wait, no it's.........pictures don't do her justice! lol.....
I have to do some work and prove her out before I start waiting lists;)

Wow I like that Burgendy. Hmm man when I start to breed there is so many choices out there.


Wow I really do like that burg , right up there with Lessers for me.

Joe, Adam what can I say....your combined wisdom and the ability for me to tap into it to get answers to all these questions continues to blow me away. Thank you both so much.

Now all that aside, it's actually a combination of Adam's obvious love of his hypo's and Joe's tempting hypo packages that got Mike started on this. So you two, when I don't get the new couch I've been dreaming of for the past 5 years or so (waiting for everyone in this dang house to be finally potty trained!!!) I am blaming both you gentlemen! LOL

Hypo's are very very fascinating....


~~Jo~~

New couchs are SO overrated! :rolleyes: The kids may be potty trained but they'll drip and drop all sorts of stuff on them. I've given up on the nonstained/dented furniture until after the kids move out. (I've got a long way to go!!)

if you can't decide on which breeder, buy one from each of them. get a male from one and some girls from the other! lol we bought a couch last year and within the first week it had a spill/stain, the snake will last longer!!!


vaughn

snakes will also cause stains on couches. :P the first time i held nellie (my first bp) after her settling in period she peed on me and the couch. doh! :O

Hmm good point there Vaughn! I guess this old couch set could go another year or two LOL. It's not like Mike wouldn't have dripped beer and salsa on a new one anyways during football or hockey season, and I would have had to kill him so therefore the purchase of snakes instead of a new couch could actually save my marriage!!!!

(my god I'm good if I do say so myself LMAO)


~~Jo~~

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

New couchs are SO overrated! :rolleyes:

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Agreed. Who needs a new couch when you have a floor to sit on and walls to lean against? New snakes over a new couch anyday....:giggle:

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Originally Posted by Joe_Compel

Agreed. Who needs a new couch when you have a floor to sit on and walls to lean against? New snakes over a new couch anyday....:giggle:

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Yeah and when that old couch goes, just keep the cushions to sit on and your living the high life! ;) :lmao:

Hmmm well too true (my you are all such smart people!) and I'm not terribly materialistic anyways.

Now if I could only figure out the right psychological malady that encompasses ball python obsessions LOL (well other than the whole OCD issue about temps and humidity and how many times the snakes poop in any given month!)


~~Jo~~