Setup questions... tips/suggetsions appreciated

https://image.ibb.co/nH7ETa/21325840...49278991_n.jpg

Newb here. Any helpful tips or comments appreciated.


Basking spot temperature: 90-92F
Ambient: 80-82F

During Day: 150W ceramic heat bulb w/ dimmer (on very low setting, not bright)
At Night: 50W blue nocturnal bulb
24/7: Zoo Med UTH w/ R-Zilla 1000-Watt Thermostat

Digital Thermo/Hygrometer on warm side, regular thermometer on ambient

Aspen Bedding
3 x Organic Driftwood Tree Ornaments
Various fake pants attached to sides of tank
Plastic solid black hides
Water bowl w/ conditioner

Welcome to the forum! Nice looking snake! Appears to be a butter or lesser, possibly pastel.

The only comment I'd have is maybe consider just using the ceramic heat emitter 24/7 and not using the "night bulb". I've read that the snakes can see the bulb and that it might disturb their normal activity levels...Not sure if that is accurate, but just thought I'd share the info.

If you have him in a glass tank, you may want to cover 3 sides with contact paper to help him feel secure. Some people actually use insulation boards to help hold in heat.

Also, if your enclosure has a screen top, you may have difficulty holding in humidity. If that is the case, you should consider covering part of the top with plexiglass or foil (there is a foil screen top sticky note on one of the forums somewhere about this).

Lastly, aspen molds quickly when exposed to water. Many people use coconut husk bedding to prevent this (I like prococo or repti-chips), some use products like "forrest floor" etc. I would keep an eye on your aspen and change it out as needed (i.e. when the snake decides to go swimming and splashes water everywhere). Also, look into getting a thermometer / hygrometer combo unit. Accurite makes a great one that I purchased on Amazon (I think it is called an indoor / outdoor thermometer / hygrometer) Ihas a probe as well as reads ambient temp / humidity). I place the probe over the hot spot (on top of UTH) and secure it with hot glue, I sit the unit on the opposite / cold end of the tank and it reads humidity and ambient temps there.

Maybe a photo of two people of the set up then everyone can make suggestions..
I use the free TapaTalk app to upload photos ..

For what it's worth your stunning snake would look much better o some dark coloured substrate like Orchid bark which also holds moisture better than aspen ...

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I can't get him to eat..... first time tried, nothing happened. Just now, he took three shots at it but missed each time... (WTF?) Then he had no interest anymore. Should I just lay it there and close the tank, or keep trying to make it "dance" around

Give him an entire day to get situated, do not hold him, do not bother him. If you can, try to even stay out of the room he's in. Then, try again tomorrow. Repeat if he does not feed.

Balls are notorious for going off of feed randomly or from stress induced factors.


"Also, if your enclosure has a screen top, you may have difficulty holding in humidity. If that is the case, you should consider covering part of the top with plexiglass"

+1. I can't say how much I agree with this. Humidity is a nightmare to keep in glass tanks, and you're most likely going to need a piece of plexi covering the top if it's a screen. Cut a circular opening for your heat lamps and a couple 3/4" holes on the ends. You need less ventilation than you think.

Artgecko gave great advice, I would also use only the ceramic heat emitter. The red bulbs are a waste of time, additionally ball pythons spend most of their time in termite borrows so they are not a species that needs ANY additional lighting to begin with. The daylight from a small window is sufficient.


How big of a tank is he in ? 20 gallon long?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tinyballs

Give him an entire day to get situated, do not hold him, do not bother him. If you can, try to even stay out of the room he's in. Then, try again tomorrow. Repeat if he does not feed.

Balls are notorious for going off of feed randomly or from stress induced factors.


"Also, if your enclosure has a screen top, you may have difficulty holding in humidity. If that is the case, you should consider covering part of the top with plexiglass"

+1. I can't say how much I agree with this. Humidity is a nightmare to keep in glass tanks, and you're most likely going to need a piece of plexi covering the top if it's a screen. Cut a circular opening for your heat lamps and a couple 3/4" holes on the ends. You need less ventilation than you think.

Artgecko gave great advice, I would also use only the ceramic heat emitter. The red bulbs are a waste of time, additionally ball pythons spend most of their time in termite borrows so they are not a species that needs ANY additional lighting to begin with. The daylight from a small window is sufficient.


How big of a tank is he in ? 20 gallon long?

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20 gallon long. Also, I feel like the temperature from the UTH on the thermostat is not right... maybe I have too much aspen bedding but when I touch t he spot he sleeps (under his hide) it doesn't feel like 92

thing is, he tried to take the mouse 3 times but missed the mouse... OR, he was trying to get me and not the mouse... lol. I don't know. It seemed like after he missed it 3 times he said "to hell with this" n said forget about it!

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if I lay a thermometer under his hide, it shows 80 degrees. But the thermostat is saying its 90

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Think was a mistake mounting the thermostat sensor between the UTH and tank.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neur0tix

20 gallon long. Also, I feel like the temperature from the UTH on the thermostat is not right... maybe I have too much aspen bedding but when I touch t he spot he sleeps (under his hide) it doesn't feel like 92

thing is, he tried to take the mouse 3 times but missed the mouse... OR, he was trying to get me and not the mouse... lol. I don't know. It seemed like after he missed it 3 times he said "to hell with this" n said forget about it!

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if I lay a thermometer under his hide, it shows 80 degrees. But the thermostat is saying its 90

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Think was a mistake mounting the thermostat sensor between the UTH and tank.

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Yeah a 20 gallon long should have a plexi top cover and you should be using a substrate with some form of humidity in it (cypress mulch is usually the best). I'm only saying as I have used that EXACT setup before and you won't hit your humidity requirements with aspen.

Leave him alone though for a day aside from fixing his cage.

Often, you will have to set the thermostat higher to get the desired temp under the warm hide. I measure my temps on the glass below the warm hide with a thermometer and then adjust the thermostat until the temp under the warm hide is correct.

As for feeding, I'd wait until he has had about a week to settle in before trying. As the other poster said, minimize contact and don't try to handle during that time.

When you do try to feed again, it is very important that the prey item is warm. if using frozen thawed, I defrost in the refrigerator over night, then right before feeding (maybe 1 hour before) I lay it out near the cage so that it comes to room temp. This also allows the smell to alert the BP to food. Then, when it is at room temp, I use a hair dryer to warm up the body and head until it feels warm to the touch. Mice / rats have higher body temp than we do, so it should feel warm when you touch it.

To feed, use a pair of tongs so that the mouse / rat is away from your hand (and don't use tongs that are warm..you want them cooler than the prey item). grab the prey by the back of the neck or rump and simulate movement..Don't dangle over the snake's head though..move it along or just above ground level. You should be able to tell if he is interested pretty quickly.

You can try leaving it in the cage if he doesn't strike it, but if he has not eaten it the next day, I'd toss is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neur0tix

I can't get him to eat..... first time tried, nothing happened. Just now, he took three shots at it but missed each time... (WTF?) Then he had no interest anymore. Should I just lay it there and close the tank, or keep trying to make it "dance" around

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I 100% suggest leaving the snake alone until he is eating. Literally Pretend he's not there except to spot clean and change water.

Make sure husbandry is spot on, make sure proper hides and security are offered and avoid temptation and let the snake acclimate. I personally don't handle any new snakes, especially juveniles, until they have eaten three consecutive meals without refusal. Poor husbandry and stress do to handling are the main reasons a snake will refuse food. Getting your animal eating should be your top priority.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neur0tix

I can't get him to eat..... first time tried, nothing happened. Just now, he took three shots at it but missed each time... (WTF?) Then he had no interest anymore. Should I just lay it there and close the tank, or keep trying to make it "dance" around

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What time of the day did you try to feed ?

I only feed in the evenings .

Read up and try the hairdryer method .

I will PM you details to consider


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ok thanks for the tips. As for the UTH, even if I crank it to highest setting (100F) my thermometer laying on the bedding where his hide is, over the UTH, will only say 82-83

and the snake tries to eat the mouse... he just has terrible aim. But i was dangling it bu its tail, with my hand, so he might of not had bad aim and was trying to bite me. When I put mouse down, any hand movements near the tank and he striked at me like 3-4 times. Then had no interest.

I am going to try a live mouse, regular adult size.. smallest one I can find. The stores here only sell live mice of regular adult size. Worse that can happen is he won't eat it right?
Stun it or don't stun it?

I hear horror stories of mouses clawing snakes eyes out and :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r:. Not sure is this really happens.

Ok those $2 cheap needle thermometers suck. I got my $40 thermometer/humidity gauge (elecctric) and its spot on. What temp do you think the cool side has to be? And where can I get a fitted peice of plexiglass to cover the tank?

Sorry I might've missed this but how long have you had the snake for? As someone else has said you should leave it alone for a week if you haven't already :)

As for the feeding issues, the strikes are probably defensive instead of feeding strikes. He's stressed out and needs some time alone to chill. Whenever you have a refusal wait at least a week to offer again because constant offerings get stressful.

And I don't think you should try live yet. What was he eating before you got him? If the snake's left alone with proper husbandry he'll eventually get hungry and eat so unless he starts losing weight I'd keep trying the f/t.

If you do decide to go live, I wouldn't stun the mouse. It sounds cruel :(

Also when I feed Kassadin I usually hold the rat with the tongs at the scruff of its neck so when he strikes the rat won't dangle out of place. Heating it up helps him pinpoint the rat's head too

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The hot spot bedding shouldn't feel warm or hot or anything so don't judge off of touch. You definitely should keep the thermostat between the UTH and tank. The thermometer probe should be under the bedding directly on the glass for a proper reading.

Also get a temperature guns they're hella convenient! :)


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by chickenooget

Sorry I might've missed this but how long have you had the snake for? As someone else has said you should leave it alone for a week if you haven't already :)

As for the feeding issues, the strikes are probably defensive instead of feeding strikes. He's stressed out and needs some time alone to chill. Whenever you have a refusal wait at least a week to offer again because constant offerings get stressful.

And I don't think you should try live yet. What was he eating before you got him? If the snake's left alone with proper husbandry he'll eventually get hungry and eat so unless he starts losing weight I'd keep trying the f/t.

If you do decide to go live, I wouldn't stun the mouse. It sounds cruel :(

Also when I feed Kassadin I usually hold the rat with the tongs at the scruff of its neck so when he strikes the rat won't dangle out of place. Heating it up helps him pinpoint the rat's head too

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The hot spot bedding shouldn't feel warm or hot or anything so don't judge off of touch. You definitely should keep the thermostat between the UTH and tank. The thermometer probe should be under the bedding directly on the glass for a proper reading.

Also get a temperature guns they're hella convenient! :)


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Fabulous post !!


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Ok will do.

I blacked the windows out with construction paper to help make him less stressed. This is what look like, stupid blurry camera.

https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net...1b&oe=59B77B0D
https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net...e5&oe=59B7BED0
https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net...0b&oe=59B6939D

The lights on top are one ceramic for day, and the other ones a dark blue/purple one for night to simulate moon. Just too lazy to change piping hot bulbs so I got a light for each.

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Waiting for my branches and decor to come, and that log is too small he can't fit in it anymore lol

I've heard from more experienced keepers that overhead light is stressful, especially night lights are unnecessary because then there's light on all the time, that doesn't really contribute to their health.

what about ceramic heat emitters... no light, just warmth

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neur0tix

what about ceramic heat emitters... no light, just warmth

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Ceramic heat emitters are ideal.

Are you sure you are heating the mouse to a high enough temperature? If the snake is constantly aiming at your hand (instead of the mouse in your hand) it may be that he smells the food but the higher heat signature is coming from your hand and not the mouse. The mouse needs to be really warm to the touch, I believe the average body temp of a mouse is around ~110 degrees or more (off the top of my head so not super accurate, but a good deal higher than human body temp) so it needs to feel almost hot.

His warm side tempuratures need to be boosted to ~90 degrees or he may not want to eat, 80 is too cold for a warm side temp and if bps can digest at this temperature (I'm not entirely sure they can) then it will be a slow process and feeding times may need to be extended.

If the animal is left alone for a period of time, husbandry is on point and the mouse is heated properly, he should eat.

I finally got him to eat. He did not care for frozen ones, or I was preparing wrong... but took a live mouse right away. He has terrible aim... he could not catch the mouse and missed about 15 times eventually. Ok I will make warm side 90 degrees, cold side read about 75

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*** eventually we had to stun mr. mouse. Felt bad but he was going to die either way, I'd rather be dazed and confused before someone ate me.

I'm by no mean no expert but I keep my cool side around 80 (75 seems low). My ambient room temp. is 80.

My new snake loves the hot side and I believe (after the state of the tub this morning:D) She comes out in the night and goes to the cool side. My hot side is anywhere from 89 to 92. What's your humidity at? I find the temp guns best and use this for my temp checks daily. I have a thermometer (Wireless) to gauge my humidity levels.

Glad to here she ate finally :).

I attempt mine tomorrow. She seems hungry now so I cross my fingers.

Ok still in process of perfecting... I accidentally ordered another thermostat but it came w/ a chinese plug, and there's no way I'm trusting a chinese thermostat let alone buying two adapter plugs. I will get the warm side to 90-92 and 80 for the cool. Seems this little under tank heater pad does not put out enough power to reach 92... so need either get a bigger one or combine the ceramic heater with it. maybe I can position the ceramic somewhere more torwards center to get the cooler side warmer, otherwise my only option is to put another heating pad and thermostat

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000F44QBA...a-307550810594

This looks nice.. $23 free shipping fora wireless humidity/thermostat. I just wonder how big that remote sensor is... hard to tell from the pics!

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Where in the tank would I stick it? in the middle half way up? Guess velcrow or something to hold it?