Question about calico (and other morph interactions)

Hi guys,

I am looking into purchasing some BPs for my first breeding project and one of the possibilities is a Hypo pastel calico male. I had not originally intended on working with calico because I know it can give some weird combinations that don't show a lot of white and instead, just does odd things with patterns, etc. This male does not seem to be very high white either, although he is very young (so it could be hard to tell).

I'd like to know your thoughts on how calico does when combined with some of the genes I'm planning on working with and if you think calicos are still pretty popular in the hobby. I only intend on breeding a small number of clutches and thus, want to work with something that will give me good results but also be somewhat easy to sell locally or at a reptile show, etc. I only intend on having ~3 males at most, so I'm trying to make the most of my options.

The other genes I'm planning on working with are: Hypo, pastel, enchi, fire, lesser/butter, and possibly cinnamon and pinstripe. My end goal is to mainly be doing hypo combos with these other genes. I'd eventually like to work with piebald and clown, but that will be down the road.

I'd appreciate any feedback you have from working with calico and what your opinion is considering my other plans. Thank you for your time and help!

I still see calico stuff pretty frequently and there's a good chunk of calico bp's on morphmarket. I personally really enjoy calico + yellow belly anything and I think calico + cinny + mojave/lesser is pretty neat, too. Once you get into the 3 to 4+ gene morphs with calico (this is from what I've seen anyways) it can be subtle and hard to tell it's there sometimes, but it's still a pretty cool gene to throw in the mix, imo.

I suggest browsing the selection on morphmarket and other breeder sites if you haven't yet, to see if the combinations there tickle your fancy as far as including calico in your collection goes :)

Edit: Calico + enchi anything is kinda cool, too.

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Originally Posted by artgecko

Hi guys,

I am looking into purchasing some BPs for my first breeding project and one of the possibilities is a Hypo pastel calico male. I had not originally intended on working with calico because I know it can give some weird combinations that don't show a lot of white and instead, just does odd things with patterns, etc. This male does not seem to be very high white either, although he is very young (so it could be hard to tell).

I'd like to know your thoughts on how calico does when combined with some of the genes I'm planning on working with and if you think calicos are still pretty popular in the hobby. I only intend on breeding a small number of clutches and thus, want to work with something that will give me good results but also be somewhat easy to sell locally or at a reptile show, etc. I only intend on having ~3 males at most, so I'm trying to make the most of my options.

The other genes I'm planning on working with are: Hypo, pastel, enchi, fire, lesser/butter, and possibly cinnamon and pinstripe. My end goal is to mainly be doing hypo combos with these other genes. I'd eventually like to work with piebald and clown, but that will be down the road.

I'd appreciate any feedback you have from working with calico and what your opinion is considering my other plans. Thank you for your time and help!

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Ditch the pastel. IMO there is just too much pastel in the market as is and in a lot of morphs just makes the snake look "dirty" also it just ends up Browning out anyway. As far as calico it just seems so random to me but it makes some nice stuff. I have seen very nice enchi calico stuff.

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Thanks guys!

I've seen a few high-white calicos that I like in the past, I'm just not sure it is noticable when combined with several other genes.

OTorres- I purchased my pastave and pastel enchi a couple years ago and I would not really be considering adding a new pastel combo except that it includes hypo, so that should help with the browning out (at least I'd hope so). My end game with my hypo project (as of right now) will be to include enchi, fire, and pastel which should give me a nice clean snake with the hypo gene... I'd love some DG as well, but for now that is out of my price range.

I produced some pretty cool Calico babies this season. I'm holding back a Calico fire YB and a Firefly Calico YB.

Honestly I was thinking of getting away from the calico morph, but after these hatched, I definitely have a renewed interest in them!

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Originally Posted by MS2

I produced some pretty cool Calico babies this season. I'm holding back a Calico fire YB and a Firefly Calico YB.

Honestly I was thinking of getting away from the calico morph, but after these hatched, I definitely have a renewed interest in them!

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Lets see some pics!!!

I'll see if I can....after the whole photo bucket thing.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e79b08b513.jpg
Calico fire YB


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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d2de9b988c.jpg
Firefly Calico YB
Old pic, I need to get some updated shots of him.


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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...dcf9e1f730.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...78fcac37f9.jpg
These two girls are Calico YB


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Very cool! Thanks for taking the time to post them, nothing beats pictures for showing your point. The firefly calico yb is super cool!

MS2- Thank you for the pics! I'm assuming the pinkish areas on the belly will turn white with age?

My main issue with calico is that even when you have high white animals, when they combine with other morphs, I have never seen a high white one produced that still retains patterning..It seems like the calico changes the pattern as well as producing less white in these instances. Maybe I just haven't seen enough of them to see good examples though.

If you want high expression of white in a Calico combo then go with Enchi or Spider. OD also seems to push toward higher white expression. Pastel combos push higher as well but also tend toward disrupted pattern.

BluEL complex, BlkEL complex, YB complex, and SuperBlk complex seem to push toward lower expression of the white. Likewise Clown and GStripe seem to cause lower expression. Most of the Calico Pins I have seen have not been particularly dramatic either.

I love a good high white calibee <3

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fe34ddc45c.jpg
My girl is a low expression Calico. Here's her on the clutch. Definitely does some wacky stuff with the patterns.


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http://albeysreptiles.com/images/pas...1showpic_1.jpg

Pastel Calico Yellow Belly Orange Dream!

I just hatched out a sweet clutch from my male Banaha hypo x female Calico Killerbee for a pastel, bumblebee, pastel calico, calibee, banana pastel poss calico and a banana calibee. All females except for the banana pastel. I will be holding back the
female banana calibee as it was my goal for this clutch :D

Hope i'm not side tracking but may i suggest sugar. I like sugar more cause they are more consistent in the middle of the amount of white that show where as calico it tends to either be high or low white. But i do like calico so go either way i guess.

I just took and uploaded these pics of my sugar bee.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...212931_002.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...212948_003.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...213025_005.jpg

Out of my whole collection i needed some updated pics of her the most next to my albino boa who is overdo for some new pics. Can you believe i only paid $225 for her. The seller claimed he made a mistake in posting the price and honored the listed price. I'm not a genetic expert but i do believe she is a sugar.

Thanks for the pics guys!

Asplundii- Thank you for that information. I was planning on working with enchi and pastel already, but I will keep the other morphs you mentioned in mind.

Albey- Nice looking calico! In your animal's pic, I notice there is some lightening of the pattern near the belly (the areas between the parts that will turn white). Almost "orange" looking. Is this due to the calico influence or the orange dream?

MDR- Nice looking animal. I had read that sugar was a line of calico and that they tended to be nicer (higher expression) but there don't seem to be many for sale.

Honestly, I'm still on the fence. If the hypo pastel calico I am considering was a female, then I think I'd jump on it... But with it being a male and me wanting to limit my males, I'm not sure if I will purchase it or not. If it was an hypo enchi calico, it would be a better fit, as I am wanting to introduce enchi into my future hypo project. I think the same breeder has a calico hypo female for sale, so I may inquire about her to see how high expression she is.

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Originally Posted by EDR

Hope i'm not side tracking but may i suggest sugar. I like sugar more cause they are more consistent in the middle of the amount of white that show where as calico it tends to either be high or low white. But i do like calico so go either way i guess.

Out of my whole collection i needed some updated pics of her the most next to my albino boa who is overdo for some new pics. Can you believe i only paid $225 for her. The seller claimed he made a mistake in posting the price and honored the listed price. I'm not a genetic expert but i do believe she is a sugar.

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I'm on the sugar bus... I know it's just another "line" of calico, but it seems to express the white gene better/in higher amounts.

I'm also a fan of the calico/sugar mixed with orange dream, and spiders, of course. I love my spiders, but when you throw in the high white sugar with some OD, I get heart palpitations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by artgecko

Thanks for the pics guys!



Albey- Nice looking calico! In your animal's pic, I notice there is some lightening of the pattern near the belly (the areas between the parts that will turn white). Almost "orange" looking. Is this due to the calico influence or the orange dream?

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I think it is the Yellow Belly.