If you had the choice ...would you go with a dwarf Retic or a Buras your first giant?

Hello all once again!

***title is supposed to say "Burm"

It's been years since I've been on here and I would appreciate some honest advice. I'm looking at either getting a male albino burm or a male tiger dwarf retic. Which would you start with? I'm not a complete stranger to large constrictors as I've had some true red tail females in the past, this however would be my first giant. I know this may start a theoretical war on here, but I would appreciate the advice. Are retics practically unhandleable at larger sizes when working alone?...due to speed?

Thanks, Kevin

from your two choices, i would take the 1.0 Dwarf Tiger Retic b/c it would be a "smaller" snake. they will still get 10-plus feet tho.

Edit: however, my ideal lil giant would be a Dwarf Hypo Burm, followed by a pure Kalatoa Superdwarf Retic. i don't personally have experience w/ them yet but i'm sure others will be chiming in soon.

Thanks for the response! Man the hypos are beautiful too! Now, you've put me in a predicament with paint jobs!

Super dwarf/dwarf retic morph for sure.

Retics handle fine but they are a go go go snake. Caesar personally isnt a fan of being carried around but he loves attention and to explore stuff on his own. I can carry him but he just isnt a fan of it like the boas for the most part.

And yes they can move fast when they want to.

And either a dwarf retic or burm is going to get fairly large. I personally dont want anything over 10' as i handle my snakes alone.

Caesar is 37.5% super dwarf, 31.5% dwarf, 31% mainland White Albino Tiger het snow male who is almost 1.4 years old. He's about 7' and a giant lush lol. Like i said, he loves attention and actually seems to enjoy being pet as he will come over and hang out by my arm in his cage while i pet him 30 mins or more. Then he decides it's ok by 'dad' to climb down to the floor and wander around haha.

Retics are smart and very interactive. I dont own a burm so I'm not sure how they rank on the smart scale but retics observe everything and i have caught Caesar watching me clean the other snakes cages.

One thing though, at feeding time, they get dangerous. No joking there. Caesar has flown out of his cage a few times with mouth open waving around. Feed time for any of my larger snakes is a double and triple check of what I'm doing. So be aware of that if you get something that gets to 10'.

If you are looking for a lap snake, i would say a retic is NOT it. They are awesome but are definitely more on the active side.

Anyways, here are some pics of Caesar to give you an idea. And retics come in a much bigger selection of colors and patterns than burms even the super dwarf/dwarf retics.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...30d697b8_h.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...d45f2aff_h.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...01a61bac_h.jpg

So in summary are you taking a gamble on size due to percentage of dwarf? That was really my only qualm about Retics. Do they have any guidelines that say within reasonable accuracy what you can expect size wise based on dwarf percentage?

I know what I'm getting myself into as far as a large constrictor, but the requirements on anything I would say that can hit 12+ feet would be a bit much (I basically base that only on a 9ft female Suriname I had years ago, but still, I know she didn'the have the energy of a retic)....at the same time I do want an animal that will get to a considerable size.

Thanks for the response

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Originally Posted by Tinyballs

So in summary are you taking a gamble on size due to percentage of dwarf? That was really my only qualm about Retics. Do they have any guidelines that say within reasonable accuracy what you can expect size wise based on dwarf percentage?

I know what I'm getting myself into as far as a large constrictor, but the requirements on anything I would say that can hit 12+ feet would be a bit much (I basically base that only on a 9ft female Suriname I had years ago, but still, I know she didn'the have the energy of a retic)....at the same time I do want an animal that will get to a considerable size.

Thanks for the response

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It is kind of a gamble as you have no real definite answer to how large a mix of SD/D will get. Feeding will play into it but some retics are more food driven and will push and destroy their face if not kept happy. Caesar is an example of that. I tried to go 2 week with him and he pushed in half his face, split his lip, scuffed his chin and messed up a couple belly scales. It all healed fine when i kept him fed for a couple weeks but he has to be fed every 10 days or so or he pushes.

Also i have been told certain genes will make bigger animals generally. Tiger gene is one of them.

And then of course it also depends on how much of what gene the animal takes. Take for example Gio's retic, he is more dwarf then mine and less mainland by a considerable amount and is fed a lot less yet his male is only about 1 foot smaller than mine who was fed on the heavier side. Then you look at JMs ultra ivory male who about 18 months old and 3'.

You can get an idea though as super dwarfs generally stay under 10'. Dwarfs around 14' and mainlands around 18'. But again there is no certainty.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

It is kind of a gamble as you have no real definite answer to how large a mix of SD/D will get. Feeding will play into it but some retics are more food driven and will push and destroy their face if not kept happy. Caesar is an example of that. I tried to go 2 week with him and he pushed in half his face, split his lip, scuffed his chin and messed up a couple belly scales. It all healed fine when i kept him fed for a couple weeks but he has to be fed every 10 days or so or he pushes.

Also i have been told certain genes will make bigger animals generally. Tiger gene is one of them.

And then of course it also depends on how much of what gene the animal takes. Take for example Gio's retic, he is more dwarf then mine and less mainland by a considerable amount and is fed a lot less yet his male is only about 1 foot smaller than mine who was fed on the heavier side. Then you look at JMs ultra ivory male who about 18 months old and 3'.

You can get an idea though as super dwarfs generally stay under 10'. Dwarfs around 14' and mainlands around 18'. But again there is no certainty.

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Good info here, though Gerald is more like 5' or a tad more and is 50% SD and 50% mainland from Thailand. But yeah, he's tiny. Dad was 6' ultra anery, mom was 11' platinum/fire het anery bred my Bob Clark.
My vote would be for a very high % SD. My 100% SD kalatoa girl Phyllis is a solid 8' at 18.5 months and is a handful at times. You'd better be on your toes around feeding time with her or you could wind up in trouble. She also requires a LOT of food or destroys her face like Caesar. They are very smart and curious snakes though and I love them. Also worth noting... expect to clean a LOT of pee! They drink copious amounts of water and expel it in similar quantities.


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It’s also also worth a mention that dwarf retics are generally not as docile as the mainlands, they tend to be quite flighty. When my brother bred retics the mainlands that we’re handled were much more docile than any dwarf species and even when tamed every now and then a dwarf would tag you. I’m sure there are exceptions but worth mentioning, good luck on choice!

Also are you looking at "dwarf" or "super dwarf" retics? I ask because genetic stripe is considered a "dwarf" gene but my adult female GS is just shy of 14 feet long.

If you want a smaller retic look for high percentage super dwarf animals, not dwarfs.

I want both. LOL

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Personally - I am going with the Dwarf Burmese(100% progschai). Since they are smaller than every dwarf retic and most of the pure super-dwarfs. Also I like the general looks of the Burms better than the look of the retics.

Pure progschai adults typically average about 4-5 feet for males and 5-7 feet females. They max out at 6 feet for males, and about 8 feet for females. Any larger and you are actually have either at Half Dwarf(50% progschai/50% mainland) or a small mainland burm.

In the Half Dwarf burms - males tend to average about 6 feet, with female averaging about 8 feet. Half Dwarf males may max out at about 7-8 feet, while females may max out at about 9-10 feet. Also half dwarf Burms tend to look like smaller mainland burms, so you actually should check with the original breeder/owner if you are not certain.

I have been in the same situation as the OP (as some of you know) and although I'd like nothing more than to sit at the cool kids' table with Sauzo, Gio, Jmcrook, and company:cool: I'm pretty much set on a male burm, and I'll tell you why. In my particular circumstances maintenance is a major factor, not just the copious pee, but the potential behavioral issues when you don't cater to their evey whim. I think they are amazing animals and deserve to be catered to, but I just don't have the resources to do so to the extent that I would like. Activity level was/is a major concern for me as I don't want a big plodding lump for a pet, but a 10 foot milk snake might not be as fun as it sounds. Finally and perhaps most importantly, my kids. I know that retics are not the razor-toothed biting machines they are made out to be, but it has been impressed upon me that a certain level of mindfulness, care, and control must be exercised with them, my kids are young and, well, a bit nuts. Obviously a burm also requires safety practices but my understanding is that their docile nature tends to make them more forgiving in those terms, and more predictable. Obviously there are exceptions based on individual, and this is all based on heresay, but I've been asking pretty much the same question you are in various groups and Forums for the past month or so and what I've written here represents the majority of the feedback that I received. I hope it's helpful, and I wish you luck in whatever choice you make – I will certainly be posting and updating once I have mine as well.

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Originally Posted by dkatz4

a 10 foot milk snake might not be as fun as it sounds.

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ha! that is such a great description for a retic!

I would get a dwarf retic because burms can really get some girth on them and can be a lot heavier bodied snake. for solo handling I'd go with a dwarf retic. They are absolutely the coolest snakes around and i love my mainland retic. He's still just a baby but he already is so much fun to interact with!!!

Dwarf Retic for me. Next year we plan on buying a new house with a bigger snake room. Def planning on one. I can't wait.

I've got a HD ( Half-Dwarf ) Hypo Burm who's a stunning looking creature who's as soft as a Royal but as inquisitive as any Retic . He seems to have topped out at just over 6' ...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0ad04b3f0c.jpg


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Beautiful Burm!

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Originally Posted by cletus

Beautiful Burm!

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6764d36953.jpg

A shot of him when I got him ..



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