New BP owner - need help with temperatures

Hi guys!!!
So I am picking up a lovely albino ball on Friday and he will be my first snake! I've been working on his tank for about a month now and I'm getting down to the nitty gritty with trying to make sure that everything is perfect for him when he comes home. I'm struggling with my termpatures, though. I have a RepiTherm uth for a 30-40 gallon(his enclosure is a 40 gallon breeder) and it's hooked up to a thermostat set to 91 F. We noticed that my ambient readings on my two digital thermometers were 75 on the hot side and only 70 on the cool side- much too cold! We went and bought a heat lamp to supplement this? We got a Zilla brand lamp and 100w black night heat bulb. I noticed it raise my ambient only slightly but now my hottest spot is 95 F. We have an infrared heat gun to check. The top of my substrate(coconut husk) on my hot spot reads anywhere from 75-85 but the glass beneath where the uth was was reading 95 F. I'm wondering if this substrate might read a little cold? I'm not really sure what to do with my temperatures and if my digital ones are just reading off. :( I really need some help, does anyone know what I can do? Thank you!

Welcome!
You found a great place to learn and a great community.

First off, are you regulating your temps with a thermostat?

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Welcome!
You found a great place to learn and a great community.

First off, are you regulating your temps with a thermostat?

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Hi, thank you!! I was told about this place so I thought I'd ask here.

The uth is hooked up to a thermostat that is set at 91 degrees, the prob is directly taped to the uth in the space between the uth and the table. Each side of the tank has one thermometer with the probes placed on in the tank on top of the substrate(they were slightly above it before). There is a third thermometer/hydrometer in the tank attached to the center back of the tank, about halfway up. The lamp doesn't have a thermostat or anything. Does this info help?

welcome!!!

were you trying to use the UTH to boost the ambient temps? that's not how they work.
i use a 100w CHE bulb in my 20gal enclosure. you might need a higher wattage. also, is the bulb set over the warm side or cool side?
if you're actually using a thermostat, then the temperature should never go above the temperature it's set to. where are you placing the thermostat probe?

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Originally Posted by Hootea

The lamp doesn't have a thermostat or anything. Does this info help?

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ALL heat sources MUST be regulated. get a rheostat or lamp dimmer to use with the bulb to help dial in the temps.

Yeah, it sounds like you're going to need a higher wattage to heat a 40 gallon. Also, like tttaylorrr said, all heat sources should be regulated. This will prevent dangerous heat spikes as well as to give your enclosure a stable ambient temp.

Also, is your BP a juvenile?

Thanks for all the advice guys, much appreciated.

The UTH was to be the main source of heat. We discovered it was just not getting the tank very warm so we added the lamp yesterday. I never read anything about the lamp being regulated, I will go out and buy a rheostat today then. The bulb is more over the warm side. The problem is the substrate is not warm, but the glass got up to 95 when we added the lamp since the thermostat is attached to the UTH and not the glass of the tank, so that we can regulate the uth. Would it be better to attach the thermostat probe to the glass of the tank on the inside and that way if the lamp overheats it, it will cool the UTH? I'm just wondering as I have really high 95 on the glass by the uth and lamp, but the low 70 on the cool side. It just seems to be heating unevenly, and the glass getting hotter than the substrate. Should I be measuring my glass or top of substrate for my ambients?

My BP is a bit older, he was born in 2013 I believe. He's pretty much fully grown. One of the pet stores here in town is owned by the breeder so they have lots come through but he was just super sweet and friendly when we met him so we picked him. :)

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Originally Posted by Hootea

Thanks for all the advice guys, much appreciated.

The UTH was to be the main source of heat. We discovered it was just not getting the tank very warm so we added the lamp yesterday. I never read anything about the lamp being regulated, I will go out and buy a rheostat today then. The bulb is more over the warm side. The problem is the substrate is not warm, but the glass got up to 95 when we added the lamp since the thermostat is attached to the UTH and not the glass of the tank, so that we can regulate the uth. Would it be better to attach the thermostat probe to the glass of the tank on the inside and that way if the lamp overheats it, it will cool the UTH? I'm just wondering as I have really high 95 on the glass by the uth and lamp, but the low 70 on the cool side. It just seems to be heating unevenly, and the glass getting hotter than the substrate. Should I be measuring my glass or top of substrate for my ambients?

My BP is a bit older, he was born in 2013 I believe. He's pretty much fully grown. One of the pet stores here in town is owned by the breeder so they have lots come through but he was just super sweet and friendly when we met him so we picked him. :)

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thermostat probe never goes inside the enclosure. that creates too many variables for the reading, i.e. urine, poop, the snake pushing and moving it around, etc.

the UTH does not affect ambient temps. it is only meant to provide belly heat.

you should be taking your readings from the bottom of the enclosure; the snake will burrow down.

most of us tape the thermostat probe to the outside bottom of the enclosure and place the UTH over the probe like a sandwich. this will give a more accurate reading of the bottom of the enclosure. try bumping the thermostat's temp down until you're at 90° on the inside.

i'd recommend moving the bulb to the cool side instead of the warm and seeing how your temps change.

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Originally Posted by Hootea

Thanks for all the advice guys, much appreciated.

The UTH was to be the main source of heat. We discovered it was just not getting the tank very warm so we added the lamp yesterday. I never read anything about the lamp being regulated, I will go out and buy a rheostat today then. The bulb is more over the warm side. The problem is the substrate is not warm, but the glass got up to 95 when we added the lamp since the thermostat is attached to the UTH and not the glass of the tank, so that we can regulate the uth. Would it be better to attach the thermostat probe to the glass of the tank on the inside and that way if the lamp overheats it, it will cool the UTH? I'm just wondering as I have really high 95 on the glass by the uth and lamp, but the low 70 on the cool side. It just seems to be heating unevenly, and the glass getting hotter than the substrate. Should I be measuring my glass or top of substrate for my ambients?

My BP is a bit older, he was born in 2013 I believe. He's pretty much fully grown. One of the pet stores here in town is owned by the breeder so they have lots come through but he was just super sweet and friendly when we met him so we picked him. :)

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No problem, happy to help.

Your UTH is there solely to provide a hot spot, not for ambient temps. That's where an additional heat source comes in.
As far as where to measure, you want to measure the glass itself because your snake can and will dig itself down to the glass. It is recommended to only have 14" or less of substrate above your hot spot.

And lastly, I only asked about whether the snake was a juvenile because a 40 gallon may be too large and could lead to feeding issues. However, since yours is an adult, no worries there.

Have you read this sticky:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-With-Pictures!

Did you put too much substrate on the bottom? If you read the sticky it says not to use more than 1/2 inch.

Thermostat probe stays outside then, right where it is! I don't know if I can make a probe sandwich because these reptitherms say not to remove after sticking it on there, so I might have to play around with that thermostat then. I will move the bulb and remeasure when I get home today- and measure the glass directly. The heat gun is one of the best tools, I swear by it. Do you guys have a good reccomendation for different thermometers for each side though? My thermometers probes are inside above the substrate, should they go on the outside on the bottom of the tank instead? They are just measuring the air above the substrate right now.

Also, would a separate thermostat be better for the lamp? Instead of a rheostat? I heard that rheostats can be a pain to control, and our house changes temperatures pretty frequently. How would you set that up if so?

And I don't think there's too much substrate- I just used one brick of the coco husk after putting it in water. It doesn't even fully cover the tip of my finger, but enough so you can't see the glass. I would say .5 inch or less. And thanks for the concern on the tank size- this guy is about 3.5/4 feet so we might be upgrading to a larger size.

I included a picture of my setup now in case a visual helps! This is sans the lamp, which is currently placed on the warm side(side the cat isn't on), but I will be moving it over. :)

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui...2756&zw&atsh=1

I can't see the picture

Peel the Reptitherm slowly from one corner until you can get the probe in the middle and stick it again. You can use foil tape to keep it stuck again.
One of your thermometer probes should be under the substrate, over the hot side, touching the glass. This one should read 90-92F. Your other thermometer could be a couple of inches above your substrate measuring ambient temps. This should be 79-82F
If you can get a second thermostat for your lamp that would be great!
.5 inch of substrate is just fine.

No pictures here either.

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Originally Posted by Hootea

Do you guys have a good reccomendation for different thermometers for each side though? My thermometers probes are inside above the substrate, should they go on the outside on the bottom of the tank instead? They are just measuring the air above the substrate right now.https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui...2756&zw&atsh=1

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i use AcuRite brand thermometer/hygrometers, this one and this one. i have the probed thermometer's probe at the bottom of the warm side underneath the substrate; that's where yours should be, too.

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Originally Posted by Hootea

Also, would a separate thermostat be better for the lamp? Instead of a rheostat? I heard that rheostats can be a pain to control, and our house changes temperatures pretty frequently. How would you set that up if so?

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thermostats will always be the better option to a rheostat. personally i use a rheostat for my CHE, but my room is stable enough and i've messed with the dial enough to know what works.
with a thermostat for the bulb: hang the probe and inch or two above the substrate inside the enclosure and dial it in, or hot glue a cable clip to the inside of the enclosure wall and use that to keep it in place. the reason this thermostat probe can go inside the enclosure is because it will be off the ground where the snake will very likely never mess with it.https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui...2756&zw&atsh=1

Ok, awesome. I will try re positioning everything when I get home. I'm very excited to see if it'll work out better. And I'm thinking we might go for a thermostat instead because my house is a heating and cooling nightmare. It can have a 20 F variance all within one day because we don't use central heating systems because it's a smaller apartment. We rent the upper level of a house and it just uses wall units and coil heaters, and I got the lamp knowing my house runs more chilly in the winter, so that had to be taken into account.

https://pasteboard.co/GI4Z6xh.pnghttps://cdn.pbrd.co/images/GI4Z6xh.png

and I tried redoing the picture, did this one show up for you guys?

again, thanks for all the awesome help everyone! And that sticky really helped, I didn't see that when I went through the stickies.

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Originally Posted by Hootea

Ok, awesome. I will try re positioning everything when I get home. I'm very excited to see if it'll work out better. And I'm thinking we might go for a thermostat instead because my house is a heating and cooling nightmare. It can have a 20 F variance all within one day because we don't use central heating systems because it's a smaller apartment. We rent the upper level of a house and it just uses wall units and coil heaters, and I got the lamp knowing my house runs more chilly in the winter, so that had to be taken into account.

https://pasteboard.co/GI4Z6xh.pnghttps://cdn.pbrd.co/images/GI4Z6xh.png

and I tried redoing the picture, did this one show up for you guys?

again, thanks for all the awesome help everyone! And that sticky really helped, I didn't see that when I went through the stickies.

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yup, picture worked! i'm going to ask some questions/give you some tips based on the picture:
get some more clutter, like a fake leaf vine or something to place in the enclosure. this will help the snake feel secure when moving around.
cover 3 out of the 4 sides with a dark fabric or paper to block off the snake's view. this is also for security.
i'm not seeing any hides...but i could just be blind. regardless, two identical cave-like hides is standard operating procedure for beeps. identical hides help the snake not favor one or the other and sacrifice thermoregulating for their security.
since you have a mesh-top enclosure: how's your humidity?

Ok awesome!
We are working on clutter lol. He's a little big so I didn't want to over crowd him. We are also currently using live plants- those are both live and snake safe! We were going to add more live after seeing how he fares with those, or move to plastic if it's not so great.
I will try that blocking off thing! I have lots of fleece so that's not an issue.
It's hard to see, but we're using the wood planks as hide to conserve space and also he was so large none of the pet stores had hides in his size. Once that blackout fabric is up I think that will make them more hide like, but they have a nice chunk of space behind them right now for him to curl right up!

My humidity is actually good! Reads around 50% at all times, higher when I mist. My house is naturally humid.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

We are using that hydrometer/thermometer in the center back, halfway up the side of the tank.

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Originally Posted by Hootea

Ok awesome!
We are working on clutter lol. He's a little big so I didn't want to over crowd him. We are also currently using live plants- those are both live and snake safe! We were going to add more live after seeing how he fares with those, or move to plastic if it's not so great.
I will try that blocking off thing! I have lots of fleece so that's not an issue.
It's hard to see, but we're using the wood planks as hide to conserve space and also he was so large none of the pet stores had hides in his size. Once that blackout fabric is up I think that will make them more hide like, but they have a nice chunk of space behind them right now for him to curl right up!

My humidity is actually good! Reads around 50% at all times, higher when I mist. My house is naturally humid.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

We are using that hydrometer/thermometer in the center back, halfway up the side of the tank.

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ball pythons do best when their bodies touch all sides of the walls of their hides, almost like a hug. if you notice him not using the "hides" you have, you might need to consider an alternative. these are the hides i use for Yellow and he's almost 900g.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

ball pythons do best when their bodies touch all sides of the walls of their hides, almost like a hug. if you notice him not using the "hides" you have, you might need to consider an alternative. these are the hides i use for Yellow and he's almost 900g.

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Oh, nice! Okay! I will watch him and if it's not going so well we'll make a switch. I definitely want him to be comfy in his new home!

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Originally Posted by Hootea

Oh, nice! Okay! I will watch him and if it's not going so well we'll make a switch. I definitely want him to be comfy in his new home!

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we do, too! :gj:

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Originally Posted by Hootea

Ok, awesome. I will try re positioning everything when I get home. I'm very excited to see if it'll work out better. And I'm thinking we might go for a thermostat instead because my house is a heating and cooling nightmare. It can have a 20 F variance all within one day because we don't use central heating systems because it's a smaller apartment. We rent the upper level of a house and it just uses wall units and coil heaters, and I got the lamp knowing my house runs more chilly in the winter, so that had to be taken into account.

https://pasteboard.co/GI4Z6xh.pnghttps://cdn.pbrd.co/images/GI4Z6xh.png

and I tried redoing the picture, did this one show up for you guys?

again, thanks for all the awesome help everyone! And that sticky really helped, I didn't see that when I went through the stickies.

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I can see THIS photo but none of the others ..

Are those two wooden looking things ..hides or just lumps of wood ??




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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I can see THIS photo but none of the others ..

Are those two wooden looking things ..hides or just lumps of wood ??




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

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They're hides!! lol they look like it from the picture. They're flat and lean up against the side of the tank as hides so we can save some tank space. 😊

Ok- an update!

I got home and remeasured today. My hottest spot was about 92 under the substrate up against the uth, and my cool side is reading between 75-80. The AC wasn't on all day so it's warm in here in general so that might change when it cools down, but it seems like everything is good now! I'm still going to get something for the heat lamp, a thermostat or something. The tank sat overnight so I'll keep an eye on it to see my temp changes once the AC cools down the house but I think we're gonna be ok! I moved my two thermometer probes, one is under the substrate on the hot side right by the uth and the cool side ont is clipped to the top lip of the tank on the cool side, slightly hanging down. I might try a bigger bulb if my temps drop too low again after the ac cools it down, because it seems like maybe that's what it needs.

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Originally Posted by Hootea

Ok- an update!

I got home and remeasured today. My hottest spot was about 92 under the substrate up against the uth, and my cool side is reading between 75-80. The AC wasn't on all day so it's warm in here in general so that might change when it cools down, but it seems like everything is good now! I'm still going to get something for the heat lamp, a thermostat or something. The tank sat overnight so I'll keep an eye on it to see my temp changes once the AC cools down the house but I think we're gonna be ok! I moved my two thermometer probes, one is under the substrate on the hot side right by the uth and the cool side ont is clipped to the top lip of the tank on the cool side, slightly hanging down. I might try a bigger bulb if my temps drop too low again after the ac cools it down, because it seems like maybe that's what it needs.

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awesome. :gj: keep us posted!

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Originally Posted by Hootea

They're hides!! lol they look like it from the picture. They're flat and lean up against the side of the tank as hides so we can save some tank space. [emoji4]

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Can't see them being acceptable as hides from your description ... even those log hides people buy , with two ends open are no good for Royals/ Balls - they need to feel secure ... don't worry about the new hides taking up space - it isn't an issue for them , they can hide under them or lie on top or over them .... I'd put some branches in there and watch them climb around every evening !


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Covering the screen top of the enclosure will help get your ambient temps up as well. You can use plexi glass or something like that. Or you can use cardboard wrapped in foil. Just cut a piece of cardboard to fit the screen. Then cut out a hole a little bigger than the heart lamp, wherever you want to place the lamp. Then wrap the cardboard in aluminum foil. Wrap it tight and tape it well with duct tape. Lay it on top of the screen and the foil will reflect heat and humidity back into the enclosure.

Oh also, as far as the wood "hides" are they heavy enough to fall and injure the snake? Because I'm guessing the will be moved around and knocked over and may be dangerous to the snake. I suggest getting proper hides. If they cover a good portion of the floor, that's ok, BPs spend the vast majority of their time inside them regardless of floor space.

Ok! It's been a crazy few days but we are doing ok! I picked up the cute boy yesterday and he seems to be doing pretty well! He explored around his tank after he got home and has been on the cool side hide since then, seems pretty chill. He moved the hides around to how he wanted them but he seems to like using them! He found out he could play in between them and was having a blast. We're still a little on the cool side, the lowest side of the tank being around 75 and the higher side showing around 85. I have a 75 watt on the cool side right now, so what I think I'm going to do is hook up a second lamp with a 100 watt on the cool side and move the 75 watt over to the warm side, that seems like it should make a good balance. I'll have to order a third thermostat so I will be keeping an eye on these lamps like a hawk until I can get it fully set up. We'll probably end up with a second uth for the future as well, one for the cool side but set lower to ensure he's getting the right temps. I have the lamp thermostat probe in the tank but the cord held down by the water dish under the hottest spot the lamp creates just so that I don't accidentally over heat. Does anyone have a better idea of placement for this? I know no thermostat probes were supposed to be in the tank floor but if I put it anywhere else the lamp was making the underneath soar to almost 100 sometimes, but that was with the 150 watt.

He seems to be doing all right though! Hiding a lot so I know that's probably better. Also a note, my cats are terrified of him and don't want anything to do with him so I think that's a good note haha. They saw him in the tank and took right off.

I also had another question, now that I think about it!
My ball is full grown(in a sense) and very used to being handled and is very calm and relaxed about it, even when he was at the store. No striking and didn't seem to mind us messing with him. I know you should generally wait at least a week before handling, but I don't know it that's more towards younger balls or how that works? Mine was owned by a breeder previously and I know he was used for breeding so I don't know if there's any special things I need to do or any things I can worry less about since he is older. I'm still treating him like a baby but I wanted to be sure!

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Originally Posted by Hootea

I also had another question, now that I think about it!
My ball is full grown(in a sense) and very used to being handled and is very calm and relaxed about it, even when he was at the store. No striking and didn't seem to mind us messing with him. I know you should generally wait at least a week before handling, but I don't know it that's more towards younger balls or how that works? Mine was owned by a breeder previously and I know he was used for breeding so I don't know if there's any special things I need to do or any things I can worry less about since he is older. I'm still treating him like a baby but I wanted to be sure!

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that rule does usually apply to younger beeps, but it's not a bad practice for any age. i'd at least wait for a successful feeding before starting regular handling.

Thanks for the note, I think that would work fine. He didn't eat his week because his feeding day was the day we were to pick him up, so we will try this Friday. Also, here is a picture. His name is Eggnog. 😊
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2FGIxCyyr.jpg

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Originally Posted by Hootea

He moved the hides around to how he wanted them but he seems to like using them! He found out he could play in between them and was having a blast. .

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Your snake is using the "hides" because they are his only option. As you can already see, he is able to move them, which I strongly believe is a dangerous situation. Not trying to be a jerk, but offering advice with the animal's safety in mind.

No, I agree! We're going to be changing up the hide situation. We have them secured down for now so he can't move them anymore and they're in a position he likes but we still plan on switching it up. He uses both pretty equally so that we know is at least good, but we plan on getting some better hides soon for sure.

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Originally Posted by Hootea

No, I agree! We're going to be changing up the hide situation. We have them secured down for now so he can't move them anymore and they're in a position he likes but we still plan on switching it up. He uses both pretty equally so that we know is at least good, but we plan on getting some better hides soon for sure.

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Sounds good. Honestly, you're better off using empty cereal boxes or something similar for the time being though. I am just worried about those logs coming crashing down on the snake. You'd probably be surprised by their ability to find mischief as well as be surprised by their strength and clumsiness.

Also, please know I'm not trying to be a pest, just would hate to see a thread about an injured animal.

Definately fix the hides.. and consider covering the screen top w foil to hold in heat and himidity. Its hard to contain heat and humidity w the screen top not being covered.

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No worries! We're probably going to pick up new hides tomorrow as we're going to try his first feeding either tomorrow or Friday. So far he has knocked them down once- but they are really lightweight(thinner than the wooden hides I see in pet stores) so they haven't hurt him but I won't be taking any chances. I have heavy rocks on both sides of them now and they do not push or slide at all until we get new ones.
And yep! We have two lamps at this point to maintain each side so we're trying to figure out a setup where we can inset the lamps so that the humidity isn't dropping too often. Our house is relatively humid alone(50% before we even did mistings and the tank was empty) so we don't have too much trouble maintaining it at all. But we still are working on some topper for the tank to hold it in a little better. I have some aluminum covered cardboard I use sometimes if I know we'll be out of the house for too many hours.
I just wanted to report that things are going really well though- he hides all day in a varying hide, and uses both equally so that's good! He comes out around 7/8 for an hour or two like clockwork and them goes and lays back down. We see him out a bit late sometimes too so that's cool. Tonight he was laying inside his hide but had his neck out and kept laying in substrate outside of them and then poking his head up to look around and then would lay his head back down again.
We think he should be ok to feed tomorrow or friday because he's got a regular pattern and uses both hides really well and seems to be doing regular ball python things. He skipped last weeks feeding and was a good feeder before then so we think it will work out smoothly. He was eating live so we're going to leave him on that and maybe try to transition him to FT a few months down the line once we know we're completely good, just don't want to risk any bites or scratches on him from dinner!

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Originally Posted by Hootea

No worries! We're probably going to pick up new hides tomorrow as we're going to try his first feeding either tomorrow or Friday. So far he has knocked them down once- but they are really lightweight(thinner than the wooden hides I see in pet stores) so they haven't hurt him but I won't be taking any chances. I have heavy rocks on both sides of them now and they do not push or slide at all until we get new ones.
And yep! We have two lamps at this point to maintain each side so we're trying to figure out a setup where we can inset the lamps so that the humidity isn't dropping too often. Our house is relatively humid alone(50% before we even did mistings and the tank was empty) so we don't have too much trouble maintaining it at all. But we still are working on some topper for the tank to hold it in a little better. I have some aluminum covered cardboard I use sometimes if I know we'll be out of the house for too many hours.
I just wanted to report that things are going really well though- he hides all day in a varying hide, and uses both equally so that's good! He comes out around 7/8 for an hour or two like clockwork and them goes and lays back down. We see him out a bit late sometimes too so that's cool. Tonight he was laying inside his hide but had his neck out and kept laying in substrate outside of them and then poking his head up to look around and then would lay his head back down again.
We think he should be ok to feed tomorrow or friday because he's got a regular pattern and uses both hides really well and seems to be doing regular ball python things. He skipped last weeks feeding and was a good feeder before then so we think it will work out smoothly. He was eating live so we're going to leave him on that and maybe try to transition him to FT a few months down the line once we know we're completely good, just don't want to risk any bites or scratches on him from dinner!

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You prob know this but it's generally better to feed in the evenings ..


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