Gender Question

I am seriously looking at getting my dream snake (pied) in a few months and was wondering if the gender matters in regard to the male I already have. I have no interest in breeding so gender is not really much of a factor. I am leaning towards male - mostly because mine has caused a bias with his awesome attitude...but would having a female's scent in the house (even in different rooms) affect my males' behavior? Would a 'rival' male's scent matter if there are no females?

He has never missed a meal and is a complete sweetheart so I don't want to throw him off in any way. If it matters, my current snake is a confirmed male, 2 years old, 1100 grams.

I have a QT protocol in place, they would not be in the same room, and would have all separate stuff (as far as hides, bowls, rocks, feeding tongs...)

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Originally Posted by Crowfingers

I am seriously looking at getting my dream snake (pied) in a few months and was wondering if the gender matters in regard to the male I already have. I have no interest in breeding so gender is not really much of a factor. I am leaning towards male - mostly because mine has caused a bias with his awesome attitude...but would having a female's scent in the house (even in different rooms) affect my males' behavior? Would a 'rival' male's scent matter if there are no females?

He has never missed a meal and is a complete sweetheart so I don't want to throw him off in any way. If it matters, my current snake is a confirmed male, 2 years old, 1100 grams.

I have a QT protocol in place, they would not be in the same room, and would have all separate stuff (as far as hides, bowls, rocks, feeding tongs...)

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i've had Spaghetti for over a year and haven't seen anything out of the norm with her and Yellow living in the same room.

there was a post by user spazhime showing her two males out together that resulted in combat, though they stated their females were out in the same area earlier.

Male or female if you have no plan on breeding, really does not matter, behaviour wise there is no difference, so the only decision factor to me would be the size, if you want something smaller get a male if you want so.ething bigger get a female.

Others have covered the majority of the issues so far, only thing I can think of to add is -- if money isn't an issue nor is size -- maybe aim for a female. You might feel differently about breeding 2 years from now and it's easier to start when you already have the female.

I'd go female, but I like bigger BPs. I don't think there should be a difference temperament wise.

thanks for the replies everyone. I do like the idea of a larger snake...

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Originally Posted by Crowfingers

thanks for the replies everyone. I do like the idea of a larger snake...

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*chanting* FEMALE, FEMALE, FEMALE

I knew I wanted a girl from the get go. Thy get a little bigger and I am just drawn the the females. I have nothing against males lol.

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Originally Posted by hollowlaughter

Others have covered the majority of the issues so far, only thing I can think of to add is -- if money isn't an issue nor is size -- maybe aim for a female. You might feel differently about breeding 2 years from now and it's easier to start when you already have the female.

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As a side question - genetically speaking my snake is a cinnamon mojave ( his paring was Dam: mystic and Sire: Cinnamon Crystal). So a pairing with a regular pied would produce all het pieds that are some combo of normal, mojave, cinnamon right? Or is there a chance the grandparents genes would also be expressed? (I think genetics are fascinating, just don't really understand them)

Brian from BHB just posted a video that stated all BP can come out as normal since all started from normals. Even with the new morphs. Chances are lower but it will always be there.

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Originally Posted by Crowfingers

As a side question - genetically speaking my snake is a cinnamon mojave ( his paring was Dam: mystic and Sire: Cinnamon Crystal). So a pairing with a regular pied would produce all het pieds that are some combo of normal, mojave, cinnamon right? Or is there a chance the grandparents genes would also be expressed? (I think genetics are fascinating, just don't really understand them)

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the odds of that pairing:
Cinnamon Mojave x Pied =
25% Normals
25% Cinnamon
25% Mojave
25% Cinnamon Mojave

ALL will be het for Pied. no "grandsnarent" genes will be expressed at all.

So does that mean that the only genes that matter are the parents in all morph expression? It seems strange when compared with mammal breeding. But thanks for the reply!

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Originally Posted by Crowfingers

So does that mean that the only genes that matter are the parents in all morph expression? It seems strange when compared with mammal breeding. But thanks for the reply!

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yes, only the parents' genes matter

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

yes, only the parents' genes matter

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Except that a "het" snake is one that is carrying an unexpressed gene from its parents. If you breed two snakes that are het for a trait then some of the offspring will express genes from the grandparents. I interpreted this question as asking if it would be possible to see such an expression of hets. I'd say possible yes, likely no.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

Brian from BHB just posted a video that stated all BP can come out as normal since all started from normals. Even with the new morphs. Chances are lower but it will always be there.

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I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say that, a super pastel can never produce a normal offspring.

Thanks for all the info. Though breeding isn't something I have time/$ to deal with it is still very interesting - also glad that the gender question is more of owner preference, that leaves more options available for me! :gj:

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say that, a super pastel can never produce a normal offspring.

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Two days ago on his vlog. I'll get the link tomorrow.

I would add that some traits might carry over from the grandparents... in terms of size, health, etc... things not as obvious as morph / color / pattern. But no one has selected (to my knowledge) for those traits on a regular basis, so they might be randomly expressed as opposed to the line breeding you see in mammals like dogs, horses, etc. where you can expect a certain bone structure, muscle mass, etc.

I have males and females in the same room without problems. A pied female would give you more gloriousness because there'd be more to love. Lol
Baby beeps are adorable, but a big adult female is so worth having; big BP faces are beautiful.

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Originally Posted by DLena

A pied female would give you more gloriousness because there'd be more to love. .

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Yes I know, unfortunately (but not really) - I was unaware of the pied morph until after I bought my male...I saw my first one at the reptile show when I went to pick him up. Though I would not trade him for anything, it just made me realize that one was probably not going to be enough...

https://youtu.be/FcK2glqh-Yg Brian's vlog about normals. At 3min 45 sec in.
also the last clutch he cuts all are normal het albino

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

https://youtu.be/FcK2glqh-Yg Brian's vlog about normals. At 3min 45 sec in.
also the last clutch he cuts all are normal het albino

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

Brian from BHB just posted a video that stated all BP can come out as normal since all started from normals. Even with the new morphs. Chances are lower but it will always be there.

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The odds of producing just a normal ball python in this clutch is just as incredible as the odds of producing a 5 gene animal out of it

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Oh my god, I completely whiffed on my odds on this clutch and produced nothing except het albinos or het candies

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I think you are severely misquoting him. Like I said, anything we call a super bred to anything will not produce normals.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

I think you are severely misquoting him. Like I said, anything we call a super bred to anything will not produce normals.

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You might be correct. I am by no means an expert with morphs. Lol

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

You might be correct. I am by no means an expert with morphs. Lol

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

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They are. Worth playing around with a breeding calculator for future learning, but OWAL's good people.

IIRC breeding a super to a normal always essentially removes the super from the babies.

• Suma x Normal = Mahoghany
• Killer x Normal = Pastel

Or else it "breaks up" the morph.

• 8 Ball x Normal = 50% Cinnamon, 50% Black Pastel

Unless one of them is a dominant like say, Tiger...

• Tiger x Normal = 25% Tiger (Dom+CoDom), 25% Normal (Dom), 25% Desert (Dom), 25% Enchi (CoDom)

It helps me, at least, to think of it like Legos.

Normal is 8. Normal can't share with other blocks.

Base block is 8. Desert 6. Enchi 2. Normal 8. If you slap the 8 block on top of the 8 block, there's no room. But if the 6 block goes on top of the 8 block, there's still room for that 2 block, which gives you a Tiger. No Normal + Enchi since Normal doesn't share.

In the case of the Suma (Super Mahoghany) it's a double CoCom. With one parent throwing in normal onto each 8 block, there's no room for anything else. But the CoDom has to be passed, so you end up with a clutch of all 2/8 since the Normal doesn't share.

Then in the case of say, GHI (another basic/Dom like Desert). Desert x Normal = 50/50. So does GHI. 50/50. But you can breed Super GHIs and Super Deserts but not Supers of some like Normal and Spider (tho for different reasons between the two).

There's probably fallacies in seeing it like that, but it helps me process the info to a degree.

I love the Lego scenario. And I like OWAL too. I wasn't attacking I promise. When I'm wrong I'll say I'm wrong, and I guess I'm totally wrong and mis understood. I'll go sit in my wrongness, being wrong. Lol. I have a lot to learn about morphs.

That was more for lurker's sake than directed specifically at you, no worries!

Seen a lot of people that don't realize that OWAL is the same OWAL that runs the page with the well-known hereditary issues list and tends to take on some interesting projects like the long-term, multi-person Super Pinstripe project. Definitely a good user to be learning from here on BPnet when they're around. Lucky!