HR take on snakes as a service and emotional support animal

This article was published like 2 days ago: http://hrdailyadvisor.blr.com/2017/0...ictor-work-day

The writer, who have backgrounds in Human Resources, give their take on service animals and emotional support animal. It seems that she was prompted to write this article after having encountered an erratic supermarket employee with a boa on a shopping trip.

They give their take on service animals - essentially saying snakes are not service animals b/c they do not provide assistance to a person due to a their disability.

And they go on analyzing if a snake can be an emotional support animal in the workplace. i take it as boiling down to:
-- No b/c it may cause a disruption or threat to others;
-- Even if a snake is recommended as an emotional support animal by a doctor, it is still only a recommendation. the employer or HR must determine themselves if they can accommodate the snake and if it's necessary for worker to have to perform their job.

so we've seen threads pop up now and then here on the forum about snakes as emotional support animals whether in public, the workplace or home. (maybe planes?) i hope folks find this article interesting and IMO I don't think it is anti-snake. Abuse of service and emotional support animal happens. I think this article is helpful in laying out the challenges and legal threshold it would take for someone to have a snake as an legit emotional support animal.

I have a friend that trains service dogs for people in wheelchairs and hearing dogs as well (she works for a non-profit in TX). She and other trainers hate abuse of ESA dogs and are constantly posting information like this...especially regarding the role and legal rights to have an ESA vs. a service dog vs. a therapy dog.

In a recent piece she posted, it pretty much laid out that ESA, if your doctor allows for one, are only legally allowed to be required at your place of residence...not out in public. i.e. if you legally have an ESA your apartment complex may be required to let you have it, but stores, restaurants, etc. are not required to do so. Only service dogs that provide a physical service are legally required to be allowed to public places, businesses, etc.

She has also posted a lot of references to shady operations that make their money by certifying ESAs... either trainers or psychiatrists. Many of these don't even make the applicant meet the requirements, it's just "pay to play". In her opinion, these scams and also people that try to take their ESA or therapy dog (or other animal) to places in public jeopardize how the public sees service dogs.. Making businesses more skeptical of allowing people with service animals, etc. She also noted that if you do qualify for an ESA (or any service dog) that you must be extremely careful selecting who to go through and that some of these shady operations don't even supply proper training or are outright shams (so basically check certification and references thoroughly).

There was even some talk about a national certification / registration process so that a business could request you show them proof of your dog being a registered service dog (not necessarily the disability you have, but some kind of license proving the dog is legit).

I know that there are people that legitimately need ESAs, but I also think a lot of people use this as a way to have a pet in a place that otherwise does not allow animals. IMO, we should be careful about this as it may get the rights of those who need one taken away due to abuse. I'm not saying anyone *here* does this, but I've been on a couple groups where someone outright said "my apartment doesn't allow pets so I'm going to get my shrink to say I need an ESA so I can have a rat / dog / etc.".

I bet constrictor snakes would make awesome ESA's because they give great hugs... ;)

FWIW I hate the abuse of the system as well.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

This article was published like 2 days ago: http://hrdailyadvisor.blr.com/2017/0...ictor-work-day

The writer, who have backgrounds in Human Resources, give their take on service animals and emotional support animal. It seems that she was prompted to write this article after having encountered an erratic supermarket employee with a boa on a shopping trip.

They give their take on service animals - essentially saying snakes are not service animals b/c they do not provide assistance to a person due to a their disability.

And they go on analyzing if a snake can be an emotional support animal in the workplace. i take it as boiling down to:
-- No b/c it may cause a disruption or threat to others;
-- Even if a snake is recommended as an emotional support animal by a doctor, it is still only a recommendation. the employer or HR must determine themselves if they can accommodate the snake and if it's necessary for worker to have to perform their job.

so we've seen threads pop up now and then here on the forum about snakes as emotional support animals whether in public, the workplace or home. (maybe planes?) i hope folks find this article interesting and IMO I don't think it is anti-snake. Abuse of service and emotional support animal happens. I think this article is helpful in laying out the challenges and legal threshold it would take for someone to have a snake as an legit emotional support animal.

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If a runt chiuaua that does nothing but yip and back can be a support animal, I've seen it, I see no reason a snake couldn't. These are differnt than service dogs. Service dogs generally physically perform some action to assist the owner with something they cannot do for themselves ie: a seeing eye dog, or dogs that detect seizures. This whole new thing with therapy animals is more about the companionship and generally involves people suffering from anxiety or depression. Now to me in situations like that I think the type of animal is going to depend on the person. Obviously of you're scared of or hate dogs then a dog wouldn't be a good therapy animal. I have seen this done with rabbits, cats, and dogs. So if a person is a snake lover and said snake helps them cope or feel happier then why not. Disclaimer I did not read the article but I gathered from your post it was arguing against snakes in that role. Well as a "service"animal yes clearly snakes can't really do much but from the therapy or emotional side of it I say why not? Who is HR to dictate what type of animal is going to make a person feel content.

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Originally Posted by OTorresUSMC

If a runt chiuaua that does nothing but yip and back can be a support animal, I've seen it, I see no reason a snake couldn't. These are differnt than service dogs. Service dogs generally physically perform some action to assist the owner with something they cannot do for themselves ie: a seeing eye dog, or dogs that detect seizures. This whole new thing with therapy animals is more about the companionship and generally involves people suffering from anxiety or depression. Now to me in situations like that I think the type of animal is going to depend on the person. Obviously of you're scared of or hate dogs then a dog wouldn't be a good therapy animal. I have seen this done with rabbits, cats, and dogs. So if a person is a snake lover and said snake helps them cope or feel happier then why not. Disclaimer I did not read the article but I gathered from your post it was arguing against snakes in that role. Well as a "service"animal yes clearly snakes can't really do much but from the therapy or emotional side of it I say why not? Who is HR to dictate what type of animal is going to make a person feel content.

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My snake is my seeing eye snake. I just wish it would stop leading me into its hide. I keep hitting my head.

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Originally Posted by SPIDERBALL

My snake is my seeing eye snake. I just wish it would stop leading me into its hide. I keep hitting my head.

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[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]

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Originally Posted by OTorresUSMC

Who is HR to dictate what type of animal is going to make a person feel content.

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From an HR/corporate/business owner point of view there is a big difference in the accommodations that must be made for an employee or customer with a service animal versus an emotional support animal.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

From an HR/corporate/business owner point of view there is a big difference in the accommodations that must be made for an employee or customer with a service animal versus an emotional support animal.

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I get that it's just the thought of them saying well you can have a dog or cat or rabbit or peacock but not a snake. Now if they say only service animals not therapy animals that's something else entirely

actually my alpha ball is registered with the National Service Animal Registry as my Emotional Support Animal because i suffer from severe PTSD and Anxiety Adjustment Disorder.... i actually contacted the NSAR before i even thought about getting her registered with them as my ESA.... they told me that as long as i can control her in public which i do by keeping her in a backpack and i have her ESA ID Cards in clear view for anyone to see that i cannot be denied going into any public place with her because i have to have her with me to keep me calm..... the only thing that i am now working on is getting a letter of perscription from my psychiatrist to complete the all the paperwork that i need to have because he has even said that i needed an ESA.... even before i got her registered with the NSAR, i was taking her with me into public places but no one was any wiser knowing that i had her with me unless the backpack made movements on its own

I can't speak for other states, but here in CA there's also a pretty strict line between service animals and ESAs. Service animals perform a service that the owner needs, so they're allowed in public. ESAs perform no service and are not allowed in public places. Housing has to make accomodations for them, but that's about it.

I know people who have service animals and people who have ESAs. Personally, I have neither. I have seen some people with ESAs try to get the same accommodations that service animals get though, and it offends me on behalf of my friends who actually need service animals to get by.

Snakes can't be trained the way dogs or horses can, so they'll probably never be service animals. I think anyone who needs a snake for emotional support should be able to have one in their home, but as far as bringing them out in public... I think that is, and always should be, more of a privilege than a right. I wish the world were less afraid of snakes, but I also respect that some people just don't want to be around them.

tl;dr It's my right to keep my snakes. It's other people's right to not be exposed to them, if that's what they want.

@arianauchiha2017 Are you sure that what you're doing is legal where you live? Because you may have been scammed. There is no official registery for service animals or ESAs, but there are a lot of fake registries that send you certificates for money. If I were you I'd check the laws in your area before attempting to take your snake out in public. Most likely no one will make a big deal of it, but it may not be something you have a legal right to do.

I think all these comfort and emotional support crap is comedy. I had a service dog and I think that someone in a wheelchair would benefit more from him so he is back with the trainers.

All this I need my dog in the Wal-Mart cart with me cause I have anxiety. GTFO of here.

ESA is a scam for people who have bullcrap issues. That's why the ADA doesn't recognize them. If you have real issues than you would get a service dog trained for you.

Tell me what does your snake in a backpack do for you emotionally. What a crock. Does it crawl out and alert you to cues of your anxiety?

If your animal doesn't meet the 3 question criteria set by the ADA then you have a PET. This goes for all of these fuzzy dogs in walmart and all of these compassion support pets...

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Originally Posted by ElliotNess

All this I need my dog in the Wal-Mart cart with me cause I have anxiety. GTFO of here.

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Wal-Mart is not public property. Stores are private property so they can choose to permit ESA's or even any animals on their premises or not.

i am not going to get into it.... i have been in contact with the National Service Animal Registry for the last 5 years about what can and cannot be registered as a service animal or an ESA..... but me taking my snake out in public is no different that someone taking an unregistered animal either as a service animal or an ESA into a store or out for a walk... if i am going to take her out with me i am not going to leave her in a hot car and get in trouble for cruelty to animals and like i said most of the time no one knows that she is with me because she is in my backpack.... but because of how bad my PTSD and Anxiety Adjustment Disorder is, I have to her with me to keep me from having really bad anxiety attacks or if something cause me to have flashbacks to the reason why i have PTSD.... i guess from now on I am just going to keep my mouth shut on things when someone who asking a question about something that i may know something about

I'm going to try and keep this as civil as possible.

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Originally Posted by ElliotNess

I think all these comfort and emotional support crap is comedy. I had a service dog and I think that someone in a wheelchair would benefit more from him so he is back with the trainers.

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People who suffer emotionally is funny to you? What is wrong with you that you laugh at people who you know nothing about. I'm not talking about those who abuse the ESA certifications. I'm talking about people with legitimate issues.

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Originally Posted by ElliotNess

ESA is a scam for people who have bullcrap issues. That's why the ADA doesn't recognize them. If you have real issues than you would get a service dog trained for you.

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Anxiety and depression is a bull crap issue? I have both so I have bull crap issues? Tell me, how is this a bull crap issue? I could have registered my dog years ago as an ESA but I didn't because I always lived in places where dogs were allowed and because if an apartment or landlord didn't allow pets, they don't deserve my money. This has nothing to do with being disabled. You're talking about two completely different things. It would be the equivalent of me saying I have anxiety and this guy next to me suffers from seizures, we're in the same boat. No, we aren't. Not even by a long shot.

What is a real issue since you seem to know EVERYTHING there is to know about "real issues"

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Originally Posted by ElliotNess

Tell me what does your snake in a backpack do for you emotionally. What a crock. Does it crawl out and alert you to cues of your anxiety?

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Do you know what an emotional support animal is supposed to do for a person? This isn't a medical response dog who is trained to lay in front of you when seizing or alert you if you're going to have a diabetic emergency. What about this guy? He has depression and PTSD but oh wait, those aren't "real issues" so he obviously doesn't need the ducks. He just has bull crap issues. My reptiles are calming and help me relax but I'm not going to try and take them out in public and flash an ESA card every time someone questions me. They help with my anxiety much like petting a dog lowers your blood pressure.

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Originally Posted by ElliotNess

If your animal doesn't meet the 3 question criteria set by the ADA then you have a PET. This goes for all of these fuzzy dogs in walmart and all of these compassion support pets...

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Once again, how do you know what someone is going through? What about a rape victim suffering from anxiety or PTSD? Must be a bull crap issue because it's not a dog that's traditionally used as a service dog and it's a small fuzzy dog. Obviously that small dog can't do anything to help someone.


If I receive an infraction, so be it but you are all kinds of ignorant and should stop talking. I have zero patience for idiots like yourself. You're a disgrace.



@arianauchiha2017, please stick to the regular text format. The bright colors and large font size are nice but can be a bit of an eyesore. Literally.

This kind of thing boils my blood. So many people abuse the use of ESA and SA when they don't even know ADA laws. THERE IS NO REGISTRY FOR SERVICE ANIMALS OR EMOTIONAL SUPPORT ANIMALS. REGISTRIES ARE A SCAM. Emotional support animals do not have the same function as a service animal.
SNAKES CANNOT BE TRAINED, ONLY CONDITIONED. Therefore, how do they do tasks for people with PTSD, Autism, Diabetes, the blind or even seizures? That is the whole point of a service animal.
An Emotional Support animal is only allowed into housing, and even then, landlords can decline. They are not for purpose out in the public. They are only to provide emotional support/comfort to one person while in home.
Service Animals provide the handler with tasks, such as notifying the handler of symptoms and when to take their medications. This takes a willing dog and lots of training and time.
Using the those scam registries to bring Fluffy into your favorite restaurant, into housing cause you don't want to rehome Fluffy or find a different home is ABUSE of the system and you should be ashamed.
THE ONLY TIME YOU SHOULD HAVE AN SA OR AN ESA IS WHEN YOUR DISABILITY MAKES IT HARD FOR YOU TO FUNCTION IN YOUR DAY TO DAY LIFE.
I have depression, social anxiety, and even PARANOIA but I do not misuse the system since I can do everyday tasks.

Bottom line, snakes will be ESAs when snakes become domesticated. Please follow ADA laws because it IS illegal to fake a service animals and you do ruin it for those who actually need one.

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Originally Posted by andrewross8705

I'm going to try and keep this as civil as possible.

People who suffer emotionally is funny to you? What is wrong with you that you laugh at people who you know nothing about. I'm not talking about those who abuse the ESA certifications. I'm talking about people with legitimate issues.

No people who abuse the reason that the ADA exists. Where did I laugh at someone with legitimate issues? And for clarity I consider LEGITIMATE as a recognized disability or disorder in the medical community. You seem to just blanket accept "issues" so please explain to me the lady who pushes around 4 Chihuahuas in a grocery cart then when asked she says "my emotional support"... GTFO with that nonsense.

Anxiety and depression is a bull crap issue? I have both so I have bull crap issues? Tell me, how is this a bull crap issue? I could have registered my dog years ago as an ESA but I didn't because I always lived in places where dogs were allowed and because if an apartment or landlord didn't allow pets, they don't deserve my money. This has nothing to do with being disabled. You're talking about two completely different things. It would be the equivalent of me saying I have anxiety and this guy next to me suffers from seizures, we're in the same boat. No, we aren't. Not even by a long shot.

What is a real issue since you seem to know EVERYTHING there is to know about "real issues"

See legitimate issues above.
But seeing you know so much about me, I am inviting you to my appointment on Sept 13th at Loma Linda VA hospital. Just the usual follow-up for my PTSD, Depression, Anxiety ... you know my every day struggle. If you aren't available that day, there is weekly meetings and classes for Anger Management you can attend. How is it up there sitting on your high horse now? Hey was your "issues" caused by land mines, snipers, almost dying in a C130 accident, death, dismemberment? Oh ok so its not the same as the 62 year old single guy whose wife left him cause he was an aszhole so he takes his dog everywhere now?



Do you know what an emotional support animal is supposed to do for a person? This isn't a medical response dog who is trained to lay in front of you when seizing or alert you if you're going to have a diabetic emergency. What about this guy? He has depression and PTSD but oh wait, those aren't "real issues" so he obviously doesn't need the ducks. He just has bull crap issues. My reptiles are calming and help me relax but I'm not going to try and take them out in public and flash an ESA card every time someone questions me. They help with my anxiety much like petting a dog lowers your blood pressure.

Americans With Disabilities cites that emotional support dogs or animals do not have the training to do specific tasks in assisting a person with disability or impairment, unlike service animals. Hence, the pets may not be allowed to accompany their owner in public places ie. restaurants, stores, hotels.

I'm not psychic but I am going to guess the same thing as a pet... a warm fuzzy you get from a gerbil, goldfish so basically nothing special.

Once again, how do you know what someone is going through? What about a rape victim suffering from anxiety or PTSD? Must be a bull crap issue because it's not a dog that's traditionally used as a service dog and it's a small fuzzy dog. Obviously that small dog can't do anything to help someone.

Again you are just making nonsense statements looking to stand on shallow ground.

You probably think its ok to park in a handicap spot cause they are obese right? If the doctor says its a medical related issue, guess what YOU GET A PLACARD. All others are just fat and lazy.


If I receive an infraction, so be it but you are all kinds of ignorant and should stop talking. I have zero patience for idiots like yourself. You're a disgrace.

@arianauchiha2017, please stick to the regular text format. The bright colors and large font size are nice but can be a bit of an eyesore. Literally.

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No people who abuse the reason that the ADA exists. Where did I laugh at someone with legitimate issues? And for clarity I consider LEGITIMATE as a recognized disability or disorder in the medical community. You seem to just blanket accept "issues" so please explain to me the lady who pushes around 4 Chihuahuas in a grocery cart then when asked she says "my emotional support"... GTFO with that nonsense.

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ElliotNess

I think all these comfort and emotional support crap is comedy. I had a service dog and I think that someone in a wheelchair would benefit more from him so he is back with the trainers.

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You think it's comedy. Do you cry at comedy? No, you laugh. You think emotional support crap is comedy. How is emotional support a laughing matter? I'm not talking about the lady who is pushing around 4 chihuahuas in a grocery cart. I also don't widely accept issues. I have issues myself and I don't appreciate those who abuse ANY system regardless of what it is. You're assuming I accept issues left and right. Don't assume, it makes you look bad. If that lady is pushing around 4 dogs, chances are, she's abusing the system or just says they are ESA without documentation. She's no different than the people who take the motorized carts because they don't want to walk around the store.

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See legitimate issues above.
But seeing you know so much about me, I am inviting you to my appointment on Sept 13th at Loma Linda VA hospital. Just the usual follow-up for my PTSD, Depression, Anxiety ... you know my every day struggle. If you aren't available that day, there is weekly meetings and classes for Anger Management you can attend. How is it up there sitting on your high horse now? Hey was your "issues" caused by land mines, snipers, almost dying in a C130 accident, death, dismemberment? Oh ok so its not the same as the 62 year old single guy whose wife left him cause he was an aszhole so he takes his dog everywhere now?

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I never claimed to know everything about you. You're the one making assumptions about me and other people. I have anxiety, depression and a whole host of other problems including cardiac and tissues diseases. Mental illness is mental illness and yours is not different than mine, Jim or Jane's. If we have it, we have it. Do you think you're the exception and get immunity to criticize others because of what you experienced? I have plenty of respect for veterans and work with several. The vets I have no respect for are the ones who think they are above everyone else and are entitled to bash on anyone else who tries to relate to them. To be clear and so you can't attempt to twist my words. I'm not saying you are that guy. I'm saying I have no respect for those who act like that and unfortunately there are quite a few out there.

My anxiety and depression runs in the family but it's also been amplified from working as a firefighter/EMT. Responding to see a kid murdered, a family dead after being hit by a semi, dismembered motorcycle riders, shootings, burn victims, overdoses, a SIDS call with hysterical parents and witnessing a suicide during a standoff. How is YOUR issue above mine or anyone else's? I respect that you served/still serve this country and I respect my current public service employees because it's a harrowing job and it will never get easier. You comparing someone whose wife left him because he was an arzehole to his wife is not even up for debate. You're building a straw man with that logic.

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Americans With Disabilities cites that emotional support dogs or animals do not have the training to do specific tasks in assisting a person with disability or impairment, unlike service animals. Hence, the pets may not be allowed to accompany their owner in public places ie. restaurants, stores, hotels.

I'm not psychic but I am going to guess the same thing as a pet... a warm fuzzy you get from a gerbil, goldfish so basically nothing special.

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ADA and ESA are completely separate. Why are you even attempting to put them in the same category? That's like saying ice and fire are the same thing. I'm fine with ESA animals being prohibited from going into PRIVATE places. A restaurant, store or hotel is not public property. If Home Depot doesn't allow someone to bring an ESA inside, that's their choice and I can respect that. Again, look at the article I linked. The man has ducks and they provide a benefit to him. Service animals provide a service. Emotional support animals provide just that. Emotional support. Do you see the difference now?

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Again you are just making nonsense statements looking to stand on shallow ground.

You probably think its ok to park in a handicap spot cause they are obese right? If the doctor says its a medical related issue, guess what YOU GET A PLACARD. All others are just fat and lazy.

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How am I making a nonsense statement when using a rape victim as an example? Please, elaborate on that. If you can't, then stop assuming because once again, you're making assumptions when you don't know me. I don't think it's acceptable for someone to park in a handicap spot if they are obese. Where did I even come close to implying that? You're the one reaching for things that aren't there so you can build your straw man. Just so we're clear, I don't agree with people that use the placard to park in a handicap spot just because they have a family member that is disabled and was given the placard. There are multiple people in my office that do that and have openly admitted to doing it because they don't want to park further away. I'm also against people who attack others because they don't look like they are disabled.


You're reaching for straws and making baseless assumptions with no evidence or facts to back them up. Next time, don't assume you know me when you don't.

From what I have seen esa animals are more often that not just an excuse to be allowed to take your pet where others can't take theirs. Then again I think ptsd is about as over diagnosed as fibromyalgia and adhd.
No, I am not a heartless person either. I am a realist who has spent 20+ years in public safety and have had a front seat to the progression of this s#$t show.
On and off duty I have been attacked by "service dogs" who in fact were simply untrained poorly behaved pets that someone went online a purchased a 75.00 certification that they needed this animal to function comfortably in public. Well how about the people who have anxiety when they are forced to be in a grocery store with a dog and they are germaphobes? Or those that are simply scared of dogs/cats/ or whatever animal you think you need. Who's comfort takes precedence?
The real sad part here is those that truly need this stuff are more often than not too proud to admit they need it. They instead, internalize, process and move on. They do what they have to and find a way to survive without expecting the rest of the world to make an exception for their precious feelings.

I don't purport to be an expert in any of this in any sense of the word, but have an interesting note.

I have PTSD and have not found animals to be directly helpful in particular. I enjoy spending time with them and they make me happy, I enjoy the process of caring for them but don't find them to be therapeutic necessarily .

However, I've noticed an immediate calming effect when handling my snake. He totally chills me out. I had a typical PTSD nightmare for me this morning and got up to handle him and it really helped. I haven't had that feeling with an animal before. I don't know what that's about but just something to note. Everybody experiences things differently. I think that's the therapeutic feeling others have experienced. That doesn't mean I'm going to take him everywhere or anything but just thought I'd share.

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Originally Posted by ElliotNess

I think all these comfort and emotional support crap is comedy. I had a service dog and I think that someone in a wheelchair would benefit more from him so he is back with the trainers.

All this I need my dog in the Wal-Mart cart with me cause I have anxiety. GTFO of here.

ESA is a scam for people who have bullcrap issues. That's why the ADA doesn't recognize them. If you have real issues than you would get a service dog trained for you.

Tell me what does your snake in a backpack do for you emotionally. What a crock. Does it crawl out and alert you to cues of your anxiety?

If your animal doesn't meet the 3 question criteria set by the ADA then you have a PET. This goes for all of these fuzzy dogs in walmart and all of these compassion support pets...

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I agree with you, and I'm saying this as someone with severe service related anxiety and depression. I love my snakes but I don't see how they would bring any sort of comfort in a public area (my biggest trigger). Even my dogs do very little to calm my symptoms and they are very keen to detecting emotions. Service dogs are a completely different story, an animal that is helping you with a physical task is very different than one providing you your subjective safe space. I also noticed someone accused you of finding people with emotional suffering funny. Virtue signaling at it's finest. I didn't see it that way at all.

Here it is plain and simple. ESA is Black Lives Matter. Someone came up with the idea of something to help and it became a shihtshow. There are more false claims of ESA than real "users".

Service dogs are trained to perform a function to assist someone. ESA are PETS ..

Did you get your ESA from a trainer?
So YES I find ESA comedy.... cause it has become an excuse to take your pets in stores.

I also agree that alot of crap is overdiagnosed... if it doesn't exist, they make a name for it and call it a disorder.... lol

So it may have been a good idea but ESA is now nonsense because of the abuse.... not that it was ever legitimate in the first place....

How do you spell ESA = PET

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Originally Posted by RamMac

I agree with you, and I'm saying this as someone with severe service related anxiety and depression. I love my snakes but I don't see how they would bring any sort of comfort in a public area (my biggest trigger). Even my dogs do very little to calm my symptoms and they are very keen to detecting emotions. Service dogs are a completely different story, an animal that is helping you with a physical task is very different than one providing you your subjective safe space. I also noticed someone accused you of finding people with emotional suffering funny. Virtue signaling at it's finest. I didn't see it that way at all.

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I'm always the bad guy cause I tell the truth and it usually hurts... Thankfully there are ESAs cause if they are lucky it helps with hurt feelings....

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Originally Posted by ElliotNess

I'm always the bad guy cause I tell the truth and it usually hurts... Thankfully there are ESAs cause if they are lucky it helps with hurt feelings....

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Just gonna jump in here for a minute. Telling the truth is good, but you also have to communicate it in a way that shows thoughtfulness to others. Think of the difference between a teacher correcting a student and the kid in the back of the class "correcting" the same kid by cussing and making fun of him. What you are saying is a valid stance, but the words you are using and the order you are using them in is disrespectful and inflammatory. Just take your quote above as example. You are making yourself the victim "I'm always the bad guy". "I tell the truth and it usually hurts" I read this and think *its not the truth that hurts its how you say it.* You then go on to attack people who have ESAs.

But this is the truth and you'll just snap at me since you think you're all that!
-That's just an example, I would never say that to someone. Notice the difference. Correcting yourself can hurt and can be difficult. But obviously you're a tough guy who can handle that ;)

You are correct and I don't mean to attack those who need an ESA. I am irritated at the fact that people hide behind someone else's legitimate issues. So if I came across rude, my apologies.

I find this whole topic ridiculous, but nevertheless interesting. ESAs? WTF?

2 semesters ago (before I transferred colleges), I would see students and their "emotional support animals" all over campus, in classes, in the library, etc. These were NOT registered service animals, these were pets people had certified by whatever means so they could keep their cat/dog/whatever in their dorm rooms and bring them to class with them. Several people I asked readily and unashamedly admitted to this. Most animals were NOT well trained, often disruptive and just generally in the way, and the owners felt no need to correct the issue because of their "service animal status".

Yes, I know it is the colleges decision to allow ESA's since they are not legally required to allow anything less than a registered service animal. Yes, I know not all ESA owners are this discourteous, rude, or blatant about abusing the system if that's what they're doing. But I do think there is a real problem, especially with young people (and this entitlement culture these days), condoning or normalizing the abuse of medical or government programs when they do not need or qualify for aid. Some people feel they need their pet to be certified as an emotional support animal; okay, go ahead, but be realistic with your expected accommodations and don't be rude to others over those accommodations. Animals are great for destressing, relaxing, feeling happy-- the warm fuzzy feeling you get when you hug a dog or snake or whatever animal can really help with mood and emotional state. I don't deny that and I don't judge anyone who feels that way, I feel the same. But saying you need an emotional support animal to ride in the car and in the shopping cart with you or sitting next to you in class or a restaurant whenever you leave the house because of your "social anxiety" is a stretch. I find it hard to believe so many healthy young adults are that emotionally and socially crippled.

Agreeddd Trisnake agreed.

I mean I have issues, but they aren't so damaging to the way I function every day for me to have to bring my animal with me wherever I go. When I get home? Yeah I hug my dog, I'll hold my snake, but seriously??? Some people do have social anxiety that affects their lives and the way they function, but you're right- it's a stretch. Besides, if your animal physically can't help you, or isn't trained to even help you the right way, how are you benefitting? Maybe it makes sense to some but I personally don't see it.

I mean I think it's awesome that some colleges allow certain pets on campus/in dorms, but in class? That seems really distracting.

Imma be honest here and say that the minors and young adults of this time for some reason seem to feel that they're entitled. Not EVERYONE, of course, but a decent amount. The kids in my school seem to think they deserve utmost respect and leniency from teachers even if they don't treat them that way, they're always getting the newest thing and feel like they NEED/SHOULD have it, to the point where it's disgusting.... I don't belive this is any different. I think that a good amount of the people in my age group feel that they're entitled to have their pet with them just because the people who ACTUALLY DO NEED IT have it. Life isn't fair, and everyone doesn't always get/need the same things.

@Trisnake Funny that you mention young people as part of the problem, because the only person I know who's used an ESA that way is anything but young. Granted, I don't know many college-age kids, but old people can be pretty entitled too.


I do agree that it's a problem. ESA status shouldn't grant anything but the ability to have an animal in your home, so people taking them out in public have no right to do that. That said, I know more people who have actual service animals. They're so well trained that they make the people around them look ill-behaved, usually because those people don't understand that they're not supposed to pet, touch, or offer the animal food.


When a real service animal is in public, 90% of the time you won't even notice it's there. It will sit quietly until/unless it's services are needed, perform them on command, and never make noise, make a mess, or get distracted by what's going on around it.


You just can't get that with a snake, and you probably never will. It's not a good idea to take snakes out in public anyway, since it stresses most of them out. Carting one around in a backpack can't be healthy for the snake, even if the owner finds it's presence comforting. I hope people come to their senses before someone gets hurt.

Comparing an ESA to a service animal is comparing apples to oranges.

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Originally Posted by andrewross8705

Comparing an ESA to a service animal is comparing apples to oranges.

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they're both fruit. ;)

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

they're both fruit. ;)

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And both esa and service animals are in fact animals yet are very different at the same time.