New Ball Python Owner - Issues with Temperature

Hi everyone,

I am going to buy my first ball python (for my son) today, and I have been trying to set up his terrarium for the last few days and get all the temps right, but I'm having a little trouble getting it perfect. Here are the details:

The tank is a glass exo terra terrarium 36x18x12 so roughly 33 gallons from what I can tell. The substrate is "Forest Floor" and I have about 1 inch think of it down. I have the two hide boxes and a bunch of decorations. For heating I initially just had a UTH rated for 30-40 gallon tanks, but that wasn't bringing it too temp even with it set at it's max temp via the thermostat I have (108), so yesterday I purchased a heat lamp "reflector dome" with a red heat bulb 50w. With that on top on the hot side of the tank the temps are reading about 88 hot side and 74 on the cold side.

From what I have read that's a little under what it should be. So now my question is, should I return the lamp to maybe buy a bigger one with a 100w bulb or is there another solution to this issue? Any help would be appreciated, as I said I'm new to all this, but I have done tons of research over the last month.

I can post a picture if one is needed. I am reading the temps from a "zoo med" dual thermometer and hydrometer, one on each side. I know these can be highly unreliable, so now I'm wondering if maybe the reading is wrong, but I can feel that the cool side substrate does feel pretty cool to the touch. They are stickied to the back wall about 6 inches above the bottom of the tank. I wanted to maybe buy a better thermometer, but I am having issues finding anything better at local stores. Oh, and the temp in the house is usually around 74-80 where the tank is.

Please let me know if any additional info is needed and thanks again for any help.

Don't buy the snake today.
You did not mention humidity. Do you have a hygrometer? It should be 50-60% humidity. A lamp will kill your humidity. You need belly heat, so the uth is good to keep and is good you are regulating it with a thermostat. You should be reading the temp on the glass floor, not on top of the "forest floor". It could very well be 108f down there and the snake will get severe burns if she burrows (and she will).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevin8998

Hi everyone,

I am going to buy my first ball python (for my son) today, and I have been trying to set up his terrarium for the last few days and get all the temps right, but I'm having a little trouble getting it perfect. Here are the details:

The tank is a glass exo terra terrarium 36x18x12 so roughly 33 gallons from what I can tell. The substrate is "Forest Floor" and I have about 1 inch think of it down. I have the two hide boxes and a bunch of decorations. For heating I initially just had a UTH rated for 30-40 gallon tanks, but that wasn't bringing it too temp even with it set at it's max temp via the thermostat I have (108), so yesterday I purchased a heat lamp "reflector dome" with a red heat bulb 50w. With that on top on the hot side of the tank the temps are reading about 88 hot side and 74 on the cold side.

From what I have read that's a little under what it should be. So now my question is, should I return the lamp to maybe buy a bigger one with a 100w bulb or is there another solution to this issue? Any help would be appreciated, as I said I'm new to all this, but I have done tons of research over the last month.

I can post a picture if one is needed. I am reading the temps from a "zoo med" dual thermometer and hydrometer, one on each side. I know these can be highly unreliable, so now I'm wondering if maybe the reading is wrong, but I can feel that the cool side substrate does feel pretty cool to the touch. They are stickied to the back wall about 6 inches above the bottom of the tank. I wanted to maybe buy a better thermometer, but I am having issues finding anything better at local stores. Oh, and the temp in the house is usually around 74-80 where the tank is.

Please let me know if any additional info is needed and thanks again for any help.

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welcome! here's what i've gathered from you post:

first: pictures always help! feel free to post your setup.

okay, get a reliable digital thermometer/hygrometer. i can almost guarantee the ones you have are giving inaccurate readings. this should be step 1.

a UTH does not heat ambient (air) temperatures, it is only meant to provide belly heat. what type of thermostat are you using brand-wise? jc.

return the bulb+dome and get a 100 watt CHE (ceramic heat emitter); you'll need a dome with a CERAMIC socket for the CHE bulb. beeps don't like light and a CHE does not give off any light as opposed to the bulb. you'll need to have an ambient heat source if the room is consistently 75° and below.

also, if you can, get an IR temp gun. this will save you so many headaches in the future.


YOU'RE A COOL PARENT!!! :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RickyNY

Don't buy the snake today.
You did not mention humidity. Do you have a hygrometer? It should be 50-60% humidity. A lamp will kill your humidity. You need belly heat, so the uth is good to keep and is good you are regulating it with a thermostat. You should be reading the temp on the glass floor, not on top of the "forest floor". It could very well be 108f down there and the snake will get severe burns if she burrows (and she will).

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x2 don't get the snake today. you need to dial in your husbandry before anything.

all the info Ricky provided is important to note as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RickyNY

Don't buy the snake today.
You did not mention humidity. Do you have a hygrometer? It should be 50-60% humidity. A lamp will kill your humidity. You need belly heat, so the uth is good to keep and is good you are regulating it with a thermostat. You should be reading the temp on the glass floor, not on top of the "forest floor". It could very well be 108f down there and the snake will get severe burns if she burrows (and she will).

---

I have a hygrometer too and that is showing about 50-60 on each side consistently so I am not worried about the humidity that seems fine. I have seen it go up or drop a little but it always corrects itself so that seems good.

Well the probe for the UTH thermometer is under the substrate so that's what is set at 108 right now so the glass floor is probably about that temp, but I only raised it that high to make the tank heat up which is still not working so I can lower that temp if I need to supplement it with a bigger lamp....

As for measuring the temp of the actual floor of the substrate, I don't know how I can accurately do that...

Buy a temp gun, mine was $17 off eBay. Get rid of the zoo med therm/hygrometer and buy a acurite digital thermometer/hygrometer with a probe.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Etekcity-Las...72.m2749.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AcuRite-0206...kAAOSw4A5YspfI

I use this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Ther...72.m2749.l2649

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevin8998

I have a hygrometer too and that is showing about 50-60 on each side consistently so I am not worried about the humidity that seems fine. I have seen it go up or drop a little but it always corrects itself so that seems good.

Well the probe for the UTH thermometer is under the substrate so that's what is set at 108 right now so the glass floor is probably about that temp, but I only raised it that high to make the tank heat up which is still not working so I can lower that temp if I need to supplement it with a bigger lamp....

As for measuring the temp of the actual floor of the substrate, I don't know how I can accurately do that...

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are you using a thermoSTAT or a thermoMETER to measure the UTH?? they are VERY different.

if it's a thermoMETER: you NEED to regulate the UTH with a thermoSTAT

if it's a thermoSTAT: the probe should not be in the enclosure where the snake can urinate/poop on it, push it around and cause a temperature spike or drop. the thermostat probe should be sandwiched between the UTH and the outside bottom of the enclosure.

Your Thermostat probe should be on the outside glass floor between the uth and the glass. Your thermometer probe should be on the inside glass floor, not on top of the forest floor.

Read this:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-With-Pictures!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RickyNY

Your Thermostat probe should be on the outside glass floor between the uth and the glass. Your thermometer probe should be on the inside glass floor, not on top of the forest floor.

Read this:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-With-Pictures!

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i always forget the stickies!!! OP please read through the post linked!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

welcome! here's what i've gathered from you post:

first: pictures always help! feel free to post your setup.

okay, get a reliable digital thermometer/hygrometer. i can almost guarantee the ones you have are giving inaccurate readings. this should be step 1.

a UTH does not heat ambient (air) temperatures, it is only meant to provide belly heat. what type of thermostat are you using brand-wise? jc.

return the bulb+dome and get a 100 watt CHE (ceramic heat emitter); you'll need a dome with a CERAMIC socket for the CHE bulb. beeps don't like light and a CHE does not give off any light as opposed to the bulb. you'll need to have an ambient heat source if the room is consistently 75° and below.

also, if you can, get an IR temp gun. this will save you so many headaches in the future.


YOU'RE A COOL PARENT!!! :gj:

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So if I buy that thermometer you linked, do I buy two one for each side and also where do I place it? Just on top of the substrate against the back? Sorry if these questions sound dumb, I'm very new to this.

Also okay I see about the CHE, I was looking to buy one of those yesterday but the pet store I was at didn't seem to carry any, but it's the same as a dome right in that it takes bulbs too, but it's labeled ceramic instead? I'll try and see if I can find that today. I would prefer to not buy stuff online at this point I'm trying to get everything right as fast as possible.

The thermostat is a "Jump start" one I got off amazon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

are you using a thermoSTAT or a thermoMETER to measure the UTH?? they are VERY different.

if it's a thermoMETER: you NEED to regulate the UTH with a thermoSTAT

if it's a thermoSTAT: the probe should not be in the enclosure where the snake can urinate/poop on it, push it around and cause a temperature spike or drop. the thermostat probe should be sandwiched between the UTH and the outside bottom of the enclosure.

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It is a thermostat, I'm sorry for the confusion. Hmm I see, I did not know it's supposed to be outside the glass in between the UTH, I'm gonna have to fix that today. Thank you for the info.

The thing is my thermometers do NOT have a probe to them nor can I find one for sale that does have a probe. So is it possible for me to use thermometers for inside the tank without a probe? I don't want to spend 100+ on one with a probe.

Kevin, please read the link I posted. It will help you a lot, if you still have questions after that we'll help you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevin8998

So if I buy that thermometer you linked, do I buy two one for each side and also where do I place it? Just on top of the substrate against the back? Sorry if these questions sound dumb, I'm very new to this.

Also okay I see about the CHE, I was looking to buy one of those yesterday but the pet store I was at didn't seem to carry any, but it's the same as a dome right in that it takes bulbs too, but it's labeled ceramic instead? I'll try and see if I can find that today. I would prefer to not buy stuff online at this point I'm trying to get everything right as fast as possible.

The thermostat is a "Jump start" one I got off amazon.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevin8998

It is a thermostat, I'm sorry for the confusion. Hmm I see, I did not know it's supposed to be outside the glass in between the UTH, I'm gonna have to fix that today. Thank you for the info.

The thing is my thermometers do NOT have a probe to them nor can I find one for sale that does have a probe. So is it possible for me to use thermometers for inside the tank without a probe? I don't want to spend 100+ on one with a probe.

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i only use one per enclosure. yes, just set it inside. the only dumb question is the one you don't ask!

a CHE is a ceramic bulb. the dome is separate, but needs a ceramic socket. a regular dome doesn't have the correct socket for the CHE. just make sure the dome has a ceramic socket.

that's a good thermostat, but one that should be considered a temporary solution until you can save up for your forever thermostat Herpstat. yes Herpstat is pricey but they're the best thermostats on the market and this forum can't recommend them enough. you can use the Jumpstart for a couple years but they have been known to fail wide open (ON full-blast).

yes you can use a thermometer without a probe, but you'll need some way of monitoring the enclosure floor. here's a cheap thermometer with a probe that i use. or you can get an IR temp gun.

This one is only $10
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Ther...72.m2749.l2649

Haha taylor, you're too fast! You beat me in every post. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RickyNY

Haha taylor, you're too fast! You beat me in every post. :D

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they don't call me the Keyboard Ninja for nothin' :ninja: :P

Ricky and Taylor, thank you very much for the info.

I read through that post a few times, but I still have a couple questions.

So today I will take apart my tank and start over by putting the probe for the UTH thermostat outside the tank. Then I will order the thermometer you guys linked off amazon so I can have one with the probe. But according to the guide at the end when he's talking about measuring the temps he refers to knowing both sides temps but on the instructions he's only using one probe that he puts on the hot side above the UTH under the substrate... How am I supposed to know what the other temps are in the tank like on the cold side that is supposed to be 80ish?

Do I need two one for each side or no?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevin8998

Ricky and Taylor, thank you very much for the info.

I read through that post a few times, but I still have a couple questions.

So today I will take apart my tank and start over by putting the probe for the UTH thermostat outside the tank. Then I will order the thermometer you guys linked off amazon so I can have one with the probe. But according to the guide at the end when he's talking about measuring the temps he refers to knowing both sides temps but on the instructions he's only using one probe that he puts on the hot side above the UTH under the substrate... How am I supposed to know what the other temps are in the tank like on the cold side that is supposed to be 80ish?

Do I need two one for each side or no?

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you're very welcome. :)

you can get those AcuRite thermometer/hygrometers at walmart, too. FYI. just not the probed one.

you can use the thermo/hygrometer we're talking about on the cool side to measure those temps. you can also use an IR temp gun to measure temp all over the enclosure. the probed thermometer goes inside over the UTH. that's all sides covered, right?

ALSO, if your UTH is one of those adhesive ones: be VERY, VERY carful about removing it. only peel back enough to get the probe as close to the middle as you can. then i'd recommend you use aluminum tape to adhere the UTH back on the enclosure.

As usual, tttaylorrr has it under control, and one of our newer members, RickyNY has jumped right in with quality advice as well.

My suggestion basically is a "ditto" to what has already been said. Study the stickies on basic husbandry and how to set up enclosures.

I understand you want to get this done asap, but waiting to bring the snake home will DEFINITELY be in the best interest of you AND the animal.

Getting your setup all dialed in will save you a LOT of potential headaches, as well as provide a safe, healthy environment for the animal. Granted the excitement is intense when getting a new pet, this is a pet that will live for 30+ years, so waiting another week would be best in the long run.

Yes, you need 2. You can have 2 with probes or 1 with probe and the other without. I have the one with probe over the glass right above the uth. On the cool side I have one without a probe, it just seats on top of the substrate and it measures ambient temperature. I found out with a temp gun that the cool side always matches the ambient temp. I only worry about the temperature on top of the uth, because you can burn your snake. Mine reads 90f with the thermometer probe and 92 with the temp gun (that's right on the glass, not the aspen I use) If I read the temp on top of my aspen with the temp gun it read 86f... and I'm not worried about this temp, I know underneath this is 92f. My snake can burrow to reach warmer temps if she wants to.
But Kevin, you don't want the glass at the bottom reading 108f, just so your temp on top of your forest floor read 90f...this is a mistake. Your snake will burrow and touch the glass that's 108f and burn itself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

As usual, tttaylorrr has it under control, and one of our newer members, RickyNY has jumped right in with quality advice as well,

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Thank you brother, you're very kind. Everything I know, I learned here. And I figure as much as you and taylor help the new members your fingers most hurt from all the typing and some one else should give you guys a rest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

you're very welcome. :)

you can get those AcuRite thermometer/hygrometers at walmart, too. FYI. just not the probed one.

you can use the thermo/hygrometer we're talking about on the cool side to measure those temps. you can also use an IR temp gun to measure temp all over the enclosure. the probed thermometer goes inside over the UTH. that's all sides covered, right?

ALSO, if your UTH is one of those adhesive ones: be VERY, VERY carful about removing it. only peel back enough to get the probe as close to the middle as you can. then i'd recommend you use aluminum tape to adhere the UTH back on the enclosure.

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I don't know why I'm so confused lol. But okay so I was just thinking one thermometer/hygrometer (the one you linked) so that would be used for the cool side, but the only other thing would be the probe for the thermostat on the outside of the glass under the UTH so that's why I was saying nothing to measure the remaining side. I'd need to buy two of those thermometer/hygrometers that you linked correct? Unless one only needs temp and the other both temp and humidity? I feel like that's a lot of wires going around too.

Otherwise of course just use the IR temp gun for the remaining side but that won't measure humidity....

And about the UTH thank you very much for that tip because yeah it's one of those adhesive ones so I'll try to be very careful!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevin8998

I don't know why I'm so confused lol. But okay so I was just thinking one thermometer/hygrometer (the one you linked) so that would be used for the cool side, but the only other thing would be the probe for the thermostat on the outside of the glass under the UTH so that's why I was saying nothing to measure the remaining side. I'd need to buy two of those thermometer/hygrometers that you linked correct? Unless one only needs temp and the other both temp and humidity? I feel like that's a lot of wires going around too.

Otherwise of course just use the IR temp gun for the remaining side but that won't measure humidity....

And about the UTH thank you very much for that tip because yeah it's one of those adhesive ones so I'll try to be very careful!

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a few posts back i linked a thermo/hygrometer that has a probe. this thermo/hygrometer is for the warm side, with the probe placed underneath the substrate so it's measuring the enclosure floor. the non-probed thermo/hygrometer is for the cool side.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RickyNY

Thank you brother, you're very kind. Everything I know, I learned here. And I figure as much as you and taylor help the new members your fingers most hurt from all the typing and some one else should give you guys a rest.

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hahahaha!! My pleasure!!

Honestly, and I believe I can speak for tttaylorrr on this as well, I do it because I love these amazing animals. Also, I was new once too.

When I first got into keeping snakes years ago (1998 if I remember correctly), I wasn't aware of any resources like this forum. I basically just winged it with a heat lamp, a heat mat, and a cheap thermometer/hygrometer. Thank goodness I found this forum BEFORE I got back into the hobby a year or so ago. I did a LOT of homework and realized how lucky I was that my snakes never had any health issues, burns or worse. Thankfully, this time around I was prepared. I was also in a MUCH better place in my life and was actually fascinated by these animals far beyond just thinking they were "cool" pets that were easy to care for and fun to watch eat. Now, they truly fascinate me and I love watching them and learning about them.

Luckily, I found this forum and it opened my eyes and I have learned a TON from the people here, and I continue to learn on a daily basis.

So, for that, I say "Thank you BP.net and all the members, admins and mods who make it work!!!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Honestly, and I believe I can speak for tttaylorrr on this as well, I do it because I love these amazing animals. Also, I was new once too.

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absolutely. i just want the newcomers to get the correct information and help them along so they can get to the fun part already!!! i learned everything i know from here, so i try and return the favor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RickyNY

Yes, you need 2. You can have 2 with probes or 1 with probe and the other without. I have the one with probe over the glass right above the uth. On the cool side I have one without a probe, it just seats on top of the substrate and it measures ambient temperature. I found out with a temp gun that the cool side always matches the ambient temp. I only worry about the temperature on top of the uth, because you can burn your snake. Mine reads 90f with the thermometer probe and 92 with the temp gun (that's right on the glass, not the aspen I use) If I read the temp on top of my aspen with the temp gun it read 86f... and I'm not worried about this temp, I know underneath this is 92f. My snake can burrow to reach warmer temps if she wants to.
But Kevin, you don't want the glass at the bottom reading 108f, just so your temp on top of your forest floor read 90f...this is a mistake. Your snake will burrow and touch the glass that's 108f and burn itself.

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Aww this is the post I completely missed while typing out my confused response. Lol.

Thanks very much guys I think I got it all down now. I'm gonna redo the tank and order the stuff and see how it goes. I'll update with the progress and I guess I'll wait to buy the snake, there is a expo this weekend where I live and I know it's best to buy them there so that's probably what I'll do.

You're welcome Kevin,you're great man!! You're one of the easy ones, we get some people here that read the advice and then tell us that "no, I don't think that's the right way, I'm going to do it my way" kind of attitude. Your son will be happy with its ball python and you will be happy to care for it the right way. :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

absolutely. i just want the newcomers to get the correct information and help them along so they can get to the fun part already!!! i learned everything i know from here, so i try and return the favor.

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Yup, helping the newcomers get over the "frustrating newbie hump" and into the "enjoying their pet" part gives me a good feeling. Sharing the knowledge that people shared with me once upon a time is a great way to help this hobby as a whole.

Haha thanks I was hoping I am not too much trouble but yeah you guys are the experts. But anyways I did have one more issue. My enclosure top is screen but it was plastic bars crossed like a + through it and the lamp in the pic below is the one I'm gonna return and get a bigger one but as you can see by the pic, it doesn't look like it'll fit on just the screen part and I'm pretty sure the bars are plastic so I can't put the lamp on top of them... Is there a solution to this issue?

https://imgur.com/gallery/5BcbD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevin8998

Haha thanks I was hoping I am not too much trouble but yeah you guys are the experts. But anyways I did have one more issue. My enclosure top is screen but it was plastic bars crossed like a + through it and the lamp in the pic below is the one I'm gonna return and get a bigger one but as you can see by the pic, it doesn't look like it'll fit on just the screen part and I'm pretty sure the bars are plastic so I can't put the lamp on top of them... Is there a solution to this issue?

[IMG]Tank https://imgur.com/gallery/5BcbD[/IMG]

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if you have a smartphone download the free app Tapatalk, or upload the images to Imgur or another photo hosting site.

Yeah, I couldn't see the picture.

Okay thanks i don't know why but imgur wouldn't work so hopefully this does. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...cb703a4e76.jpg

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevin8998

Okay thanks i don't know why but imgur wouldn't work so hopefully this does. https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...cb703a4e76.jpg
Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

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Hey everyone, the pic above is my tank but the CHE in the pic is only rated for 50w bulbs so I was gonna return it for a bigger one to heat the whole tank and place it in the middle but the bigger one won't fit anywhere in-between those black rods going across the screen... Is there a solution to this? Or should I just use two of these smaller ones, one on each side?

Are you sure you got a che? I have never use one, but I thought they didn't give off any light. Does yours look like this?:
[IMG]https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2F5kGtlws.jpg[/IMG]

Kevin, where do you live in the US? Do you have winters? Because you will have a hard time keeping that tank at 50% humidity during winter with that lamp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RickyNY

Are you sure you got a che? I have never use one, but I thought they didn't give off any light. Does yours look like this?:
[IMG]https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2F5kGtlws.jpg[/IMG]

Kevin, where do you live in the US? Do you have winters? Because you will have a hard time keeping that tank at 50% humidity during winter with that lamp.

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I don't believe the one I have is a CHE, it has a ceramic socket but it doesn't look like that it's a regular dome. I'm gonna go return it right now and exchange it for a proper CHE but my concern still is an issue with those bars blocking the surface area of the screen top idk that a CHE like you pictured would fit, but I will try.

I'm in California where its very hot mostly but we get winter for about 3 months and it'll drop to 40 at the absolute lowest overnight.

Yeah that's cold enough during the night. I have my ball in a small room and I have a heater that keeps that room at 80f all day and night, so I don't have to use a lamp to keep ambient temps. If this is not an option for you, then you will need 2 small lamps (so they fit between the bars).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RickyNY

Yeah that's cold enough during the night. I have my ball in a small room and I have a heater that keeps that room at 80f all day and night, so I don't have to use a lamp to keep ambient temps. If this is not an option for you, then you will need 2 small lamps (so they fit between the bars).

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Hmm yeah the heater thing wouldn't be an option so I'll see if I can find anything at the store for a small ceramic heater and then I guess just buy too. This ended up being so much more complicated than I thought lol

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Tell me about it! Before finding this forum I thought snakes only needed a tub, water and food once a month :rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevin8998

Hmm yeah the heater thing wouldn't be an option so I'll see if I can find anything at the store for a small ceramic heater and then I guess just buy too. This ended up being so much more complicated than I thought lol

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

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don't get discouraged!!! once you've got everything dialed in, the rest is a breeze! this is the hardest part, and it gets soooo much better! [emoji3]

Yeah idk. I'm getting semi frustrated with these bars that are on my screen top because it's making it so complicated.... The bigger domes won't fit and they get hot so it'll burn the plastic.. I'm trying to find a solution to that issue. Do you guys think putting aluminum foil tape over those plastic strips on the screen lid will allow these domes to sit on top without any fire hazard?

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