feeding in a feeding tub causes organ damage and kills snakes?

Now I feed all my snakes in their cages. I do feed hatchlings in small containers as a rule, they always eat better for the first few times.
She was telling another person that feeding in tubs will kill his snakes, causing severe stress, regurges eventual organ damage and death.
I told this person she was overreacting. She got mad and is saying Im an idiot. BTW this was for colubrids if that makes a difference.

So am I an idiot, while its not the recommended practice, Im thinking its not a death sentence for most snakes(at least thats my take).

If a snake swallows substrate while eating it can cause some pretty nasty issues but if your snake is on newspaper or substrate isn't a factor, feeding in the tub is fine.

Every person has a preference with how they feed their snakes, though. I feed mine out of their tubs in separate bins because they're on a substrate, but I also don't want the scent of delicious rats left over in their tubs and it's easier to keep an eye on them just in case. Plus they're used to it, and I have a system going that just makes it easier to clean and whatnot all at once.


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I know many Corn Snake owners who feed their snakes in a feeding bin properly, for the entire life of the snake, without a single problem. Once I passed the 6th Corn acquisition, it became too cumbersome. And when I added in several different species, I expanded my knowledge base, and I've never bothered again.
The pros for corns, who are very active when in hand:
-they associate the bin with feeding and get down to business when placed in it.
-no chance of substrate ingestion.
-no mouse mess (blood, squished out feces) in your viv.
-no chance of a "wrapped and dragged" that was never actually eaten smelling up the entire room and "germifying" the viv.
-they never associate opening the door with feeding.
Feeding in a separate bin would not work for many species, like GTP's and most BPs, for example.
And just like the bin and eating becomes a conditioned response, I have found that other responses can be conditioned. Sauza, for example, uses a twisted paper towel to boop the snoot, so Caesar knows it's NOT feeding time. I now do that, too, and it works for every species I have.

I feed all of my snakes inside their enclosures and even though I don't see any benefit to feeding in a separate bin I don't believe it's a deadly practice. I just think it's more stressful for the snake and the keeper especially for those with larger snakes and collections. I've never had any impaction issues from substrate ingestion or increased cage aggression. I do have some very food oriented critters that will go on high alert when the enclosure door opens but a quick tap with a hook or paper towel roll and they calm right down.

Actually I was asking if it was true that feeding in a tub could cause your snake to die. Has there been any cases of snakes dying as a direct result of being fed in a separate tub?

I personally dont have a problem with either way unless your dealing with large snakes like retics, then I think its more dangerous to tub feed(just from what Ive read).

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Originally Posted by Miranda2

Actually I was asking if it was true that feeding in a tub could cause your snake to die. Has there been any cases of snakes dying as a direct result of being fed in a separate tub?

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The short answer is NO. What would cause the snake to regurge/become injured/die would be mishandling on the part of the owner. Picking the snake up while still swallowing, putting pressure on the "mouse bump", dumping the snake back into the viv... instead of allowing the snake to fully swallow and crawl back into his viv from your assisting hand or directly from the tub. None of this is a direct result of tub feeding; all of it is owner mishandling. And I don't know a single person who has ever had this happen (all are Corn Snake owners).

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Originally Posted by Miranda2

Actually I was asking if it was true that feeding in a tub could cause your snake to die. Has there been any cases of snakes dying as a direct result of being fed in a separate tub?

I personally dont have a problem with either way unless your dealing with large snakes like retics, then I think its more dangerous to tub feed(just from what Ive read).

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The short answer is no. A snake will not die because you feed it in its enclosure. The person that told you this is the idiot, not you. As stated above, the only potential issue could be the ingestion of a very large piece of substrate that the snake's digestive tract cannot handle. There is an episode of ViperKeeper where he removes a very large piece of substrate from a young snake's stomach if you are interested in an extreme case.

Wow... Delena even started the post with the same sentence. LOL.

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Originally Posted by Miranda2

Actually I was asking if it was true that feeding in a tub could cause your snake to die. Has there been any cases of snakes dying as a direct result of being fed in a separate tub?

I personally dont have a problem with either way unless your dealing with large snakes like retics, then I think its more dangerous to tub feed(just from what Ive read).

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No. That makes no sense.

If anything I'd say feeding in cage with items the snake can strike with their body or head during feeding would be more dangerous than feeding in a empty tub. Not that I believe either is dangerous.

I also feed on substrate and have been for years without issue. It's not always sanitary in nature and I'm sure they pick up some debris on occasion. I've yet to see one post about a snake having complications from ingesting substrate.

The last thing I want is for a snake I'm handling to get the sudden idea that it's time to eat. I'm inclined to maintain feeding as closely associated with their own space/enclosure as possible. Keep it simple - less chance of a surprise that way.

I have no issue with people feeding in a separate place. I only have issue with bogus excuses people use as a reason for doing so. Like that "If you feed your snake in it's cage it will associate opening the cage with feeding and you are more likely to get bit."

There's no real danger to the snake if you do want to move for feeding, for whatever reason. Some of my animals are more skittish than others. I have 1 snake that will regurgitate if there's simply too much human activity in the room. This snake would be a good poster child for the anti feeding bin people but he's more of an exception than the rule. He gets fed a couple days before the rest of my animals, when there's generally the least amount of spot cleaning required, so he doesn't get too disturbed. Most of my snakes can be picked up and moved, if gently, even while eating and they wouldn't skip a beat. Heck, I have plenty I could probably juggle and they wouldn't relinquish their precious meals.

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Originally Posted by John1982

Heck, I have plenty I could probably juggle and they wouldn't relinquish their precious meals.

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I literally chuckled out loud at the thought of this, then I realized, somewhere out there, there's probably an idiot trying to juggle snakes...

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

I literally chuckled out loud at the thought of this, then I realized, somewhere out there, there's probably an idiot trying to juggle snakes...

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I have come close to accidentally juggling them. I have a couple that will, without fail, strike and wrap while hanging half-way out of the tub. The juggling happens when trying to catch said snake with rat attached when the strike was a little too enthusiastic. Then I have others... must be a full moon, raining, with the wind out out of the east before they will eat anything. I am exaggerating a little of course, but such extreme behavioral differences in a single species always amazes me.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I have come close to accidentally juggling them. I have a couple that will, without fail, strike and wrap while hanging half-way out of the tub. The juggling happens when trying to catch said snake with rat attached when the strike was a little too enthusiastic. Then I have others... must be a full moon, raining, with the wind out out of the east before they will eat anything. I am exaggerating a little of course, but such extreme behavioral differences in a single species always amazes me.

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Ok, now I'm chuckling picturing you (despite having no clue what you actually look like, hahahaha) juggling snakes with rats hanging out of their mouths!!! :rofl:
I had a rough morning at work, this made my day better. Thanks!

I've had to catch quite a few of my happy campers from their strikes right out the door. :O I've never had one let go. If anything, they hang on tighter. :gj:Don't you just gotta love them!!! :P

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Ok, now I'm chuckling picturing you (despite having no clue what you actually look like, hahahaha) juggling snakes with rats hanging out of their mouths!!! :rofl:
I had a rough morning at work, this made my day better. Thanks!

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Yeah, it would even be funnier if you saw it in person. Picture an old, bald, short redneck dressed like Jimmy Buffet with a beer in one hand and feeding tongs in another. I am the poster child for a don't try this at home video.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Yeah, it would even be funnier if you saw it in person. Picture an old, bald, short redneck dressed like Jimmy Buffet with a beer in one hand and feeding tongs in another. I am the poster child for a don't try this at home video.

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Probably why we get along!

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Yeah, it would even be funnier if you saw it in person. Picture an old, bald, short redneck dressed like Jimmy Buffet with a beer in one hand and feeding tongs in another. I am the poster child for a don't try this at home video.

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LOL :rofl:

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Probably why we get along!

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Yeah, I'm one of those odd people that is forced to wear multiple faces. At home I can be super relaxed and just be myself. At work, I have to somewhat presentable and act like a professional (keyword is act). When I compete at kendo, military mode kicks back in and I have to convince myself I am only half as old as I am. My family is only a generation out of the coal mines. Backwoods values run deep.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Yeah, I'm one of those odd people that is forced to wear multiple faces. At home I can be super relaxed and just be myself. At work, I have to somewhat presentable and act like a professional (keyword is act). When I compete at kendo, military mode kicks back in and I have to convince myself I am only half as old as I am. My family is only a generation out of the coal mines. Backwoods values run deep.

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I always used to say "I wear a mask" when I was working at the country club. I had to present myself as a good, prim and proper young man while at work, but was back to the fun-loving idiot goofball that I really am. Since leaving the CC and moving to the kitchen a few years back I can be myself more since I'm not in the customers view, but still have to keep it in check and be the adult in the room, being management and all...

Three out of my four I feed in a seperate container because they eat f/t. And they do just fine. The one I feed in his enclosure because he eats live and is really snappy. I can still hold him and stuff. But they all are fine doing the way I do. And have never regurged or anything. So if that makes me an idiot. Then I'm an idiot with happy snakes.

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Originally Posted by SPIDERBALL

Three out of my four I feed in a seperate container because they eat f/t. And they do just fine. The one I feed in his enclosure because he eats live and is really snappy. I can still hold him and stuff. But they all are fine doing the way I do. And have never regurged or anything. So if that makes me an idiot. Then I'm an idiot with happy snakes.

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Before I can judge if you're an idiot or not I need to know why you feed three f/t in another enclosure?


Probably not an idiot but may be a failure in time management. Lol!


I feed wet f/t rats in natural substrate without issue. No plates, paper towels, or special treatment.

You serve your FT wet? I thought they wouldn't eat them unless they were dry. I have to try that!

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Originally Posted by DLena

You serve your FT wet? I thought they wouldn't eat them unless they were dry. I have to try that!

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Yep, soaking wet. Straight from the warm water to their mouth. Not a one seems to notice.

Boy that would save a lot of time, and plastic baggies

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Originally Posted by DLena

You serve your FT wet? I thought they wouldn't eat them unless they were dry. I have to try that!

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I have hognoses who would eat it frozen if they could and others who will only eat when it's still warm and has to be wet. Other snakes could care less, as long as it's thawed.

To be fair, the person arguing with the OP may very well be saying that feeding in a separate bin can cause extra stress, which can cause regurging, which can cause organ damage and thus death.

This is true.

They were probably told a lessened version of this by someone and then they have set it in their head as the worst possible version and so that's the Truth to them.

The facts are that you can feed in a separate bin or in the enclosure without any real risk to the snakes. Many people use either method without qualm and every keeper should do what works best for their snakes.

But trying to insist that the forum confirm that "feeding in a bin doesn't cause death" is almost as twisted as the person saying what they said.

A vet will say "If you feed your dog chocolate, it could poison it" and one person will declare "Chocolate is poison to dogs in large enough doses" and feed their dogs a small amount without any harm. One person will declare "ANy amount of chocolate will kill a dog instantly". Neither one is really true to the facts.

Instead of trying to be Right, try to impart some extra facts where you can.

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Originally Posted by DLena

Boy that would save a lot of time, and plastic baggies

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Yes, it does. I used to put them in bags and try to keep them dry but it never seemed to go well. So then I started trying to dry them off after removing them from the water. In the end I found that a waste of both time and effort.

Now I put all my rats in a small tub and then the bathtub to add hot water. After they are thawed and warmed I carry the entire tub in my snake room and serve them. It works well for me. Much quicker and easier and the snakes certainly don't mind.

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Originally Posted by DLena

I know many Corn Snake owners who feed their snakes in a feeding bin properly, for the entire life of the snake, without a single problem. Once I passed the 6th Corn acquisition, it became too cumbersome. And when I added in several different species, I expanded my knowledge base, and I've never bothered again.
The pros for corns, who are very active when in hand:
-they associate the bin with feeding and get down to business when placed in it.
-no chance of substrate ingestion.
-no mouse mess (blood, squished out feces) in your viv.
-no chance of a "wrapped and dragged" that was never actually eaten smelling up the entire room and "germifying" the viv.
-they never associate opening the door with feeding.
Feeding in a separate bin would not work for many species, like GTP's and most BPs, for example.
And just like the bin and eating becomes a conditioned response, I have found that other responses can be conditioned. Sauza, for example, uses a twisted paper towel to boop the snoot, so Caesar knows it's NOT feeding time. I now do that, too, and it works for every species I have.

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When I purchased my ball python the reptile guy said to feed in a tub so I did - Then I hear from people not to do it, but I continued to do so because I didn't see any adverse effects. I now do it with my 3 boas as well. It works, I have a system set up and when they get in the tub - it's game time. At no other time are they in "feed mode" and that includes the seconds before putting them in their feeding tubs when I grab a quick weight on them. I'll probably continue this procedure until they are just too big to move to feed I guess, they have a lot of growing to do before I figure that out.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Yeah, it would even be funnier if you saw it in person. Picture an old, bald, short redneck dressed like Jimmy Buffet with a beer in one hand and feeding tongs in another. I am the poster child for a don't try this at home video.

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LMAO - I can see the thread title now - "Hold my beer."

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Originally Posted by DLena

You serve your FT wet? I thought they wouldn't eat them unless they were dry. I have to try that!

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Originally Posted by KMG

Yes, it does. I used to put them in bags and try to keep them dry but it never seemed to go well. So then I started trying to dry them off after removing them from the water. In the end I found that a waste of both time and effort.

Now I put all my rats in a small tub and then the bathtub to add hot water. After they are thawed and warmed I carry the entire tub in my snake room and serve them. It works well for me. Much quicker and easier and the snakes certainly don't mind.

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I was told it helps it go down easier by the reptile guy I got my first snake from. I thaw them in 1 big baggie overnight in the fridge, then on feeding day put them in warm water for 20 mins or so, change the water so it's pretty warm and put each feeder in it's own plastic cup in the feeding tub to "pre-scent" for about 10 mins and just a quick paper towel wipe before weighing and feeding - knock on wood never a refusal yet. That includes my ball python I just switched to weaned rats from xl mice with no issues (was worried because I've heard the horror stories of lifetime mousers).




To the OP - I'm a member, not sure how much longer, of a ball python group on facebook that will remove posts, and/or kick you out of the group if you condone, or describe feeding in a separate tub. They'll also flip their :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: if you post about bathing your ball python. Another reason I like this group - constructive criticism goes a long way vs. the previously described actions. There are a lot of keyboard warriors out there that are experts, but in the end you do what works for you and your animals, with the animals best interest in mind of course. You'll find there are members here with YEARS of experience that offer advice - NOT dictate the way you should do something, unless of course we're talking a certain death of your animal due to an action you're taking (ie. housing multiple snakes together, using a heat rock, or UTH without a thermostat, etc.). Bottom line - read everything you can and formulate a plan from that.

I didn't read all the responses so ignore what has been repeated.

Feeding in separate bins is an old wives tale which has been debunked for years. It was believe feeding the cage made snakes cage aggressive.

Feeding a small snake in a separate bin can be done but isn't ideal imo. All it does is stress them out and create a higher chance for a regurg.

Snakes have been eating all kinds of debris mixed with their dinners for millions of years. Your one snake is not going to an exception to it unless it eats something like a paper towel or hand towel or something REALLY big it cant puke up or pass out the other end.

All if my snakes have eaten substrate and have been fine. My baby suriname got a full mouth of Eco Earth. So much that she couldn't even close her mouth and sat there for hours with her mouth open with basically a giant mudball in her mouth. I had to pick her up point her head down to the floor, prop her mouth open with the Q-Tip stick and spray her mouth out with a spray bottle. I had to do it 2 times which is why I quit using Eco Earth for my babies and all together. I use aspen for babies and Reptichips for my adults.

Now trying to feed a large constrictor like a burm, retic, boa in a separate bin can result in injury to you or the snake or death in you. I have fed all my snakes in their cages for years like I mentioned and none of them are cage aggressive. Even my retic who I've only had about 10 months is fine with me reaching into his cage once he knows food isn't coming. Same with the boas.

And if you feed wet or dry or semi wet F/T, throw down a sheet of thick cardboard, sheet of printer paper or newspaper down before feeding. I feed all my snakes semi wet F/T in that I thaw them in bags and then rinse them off under hot water, then just fluff them up a little with a paper towel. Then I just slide open the cage doors, hang the food inside the door ways and they grab them. In the case of my big snakes, they rip the food off the tongs so I have to grab the snake while its coiled on its food and then slide a sheet of printer paper under them and drop them down on it. My little snakes aren't big enough to rip the food so I just hold it with forceps with them hanging onto the food lol and put down a sheet of printer paper and set them down on it. After everyone is done and moved off the papers, I pull them out and done.

I have a BP who will only eat his prey if it is wet. I take it straight form the water and he strikes almost immediately. If it's too dry, I give it another dunk in the water and he eats right away. I've tried the hair dryer, he didn't take the prey. Finicky little animals!! :D

I only told her, I thought she was overreacting. Which is to say her way was the only right way or your snake will die.
I feed in cage..However Ive had hatchling corns that would only eat when moved to a small tub overnight.Never had a regurge either or had one die from it.Had I not moved them to a small tub to feed they may have died.

I have always provided food in a separate bin. I use a substrate from Good Ole Hemp, and it's very soft, but it's very small pieces. He could easily ingest some of it when he strikes to eat. So I put him in a clean bin to make sure he eats the mouse and only the mouse. Plus, I get to see him up close through the process which I think is very fun to watch!

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Originally Posted by Merriah

I have always provided food in a separate bin. I use a substrate from Good Ole Hemp, and it's very soft, but it's very small pieces. He could easily ingest some of it when he strikes to eat. So I put him in a clean bin to make sure he eats the mouse and only the mouse. Plus, I get to see him up close through the process which I think is very fun to watch!

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What will happen if your snake ingests substrate?

Please provide firsthand experience - not what you've "heard" on a forum.

Thanks!

Results depend on what the substrate is, snake's size and how much is swallowed. A few grains of sand or a bit of leaf is harmless; it passes through and is expelled with the feces.

A web search with "sand impaction leopard gecko" (minus the quotes) as keywords will get you a lot of hits.

Corn cob bedding has rather large pieces that swell when moisture is added. That can cause fatal impaction if swallowed.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/13939272/n...lanket-python/ has a piece about a Burmese python that swallowed an electric blanket.

Once, years ago, I opened up a friend's dead California king snake. Substrate was kitty litter. The only thing I could find wrong was a 2 mm piece of kitty litter in the lung. IMO, inhaling that was the cause of death, and I crossed kitty litter off my list of acceptable substrates.

I feed in a different container so my snake dosent get stuff in its mouth that it shouldn't it also allows me to do another cleaning of the cage and I wait a little after he's eaten and I just lightly grab him and put him back and have had no problems

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Originally Posted by paulh

Results depend on what the substrate is, snake's size and how much is swallowed. A few grains of sand or a bit of leaf is harmless; it passes through and is expelled with the feces.

A web search with "sand impaction leopard gecko" (minus the quotes) as keywords will get you a lot of hits.

Corn cob bedding has rather large pieces that swell when moisture is added. That can cause fatal impaction if swallowed.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/13939272/n...lanket-python/ has a piece about a Burmese python that swallowed an electric blanket.

Once, years ago, I opened up a friend's dead California king snake. Substrate was kitty litter. The only thing I could find wrong was a 2 mm piece of kitty litter in the lung. IMO, inhaling that was the cause of death, and I crossed kitty litter off my list of acceptable substrates.

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A snake is not a leopard gecko....the cerastes I used to keep always ingested sand as do the shovel nosed snakes I currently keep. They ate and crapped just fine, as they do in the wild living in and on....sand.

Corn and kitty litter are crappy substrates as are glass, nails and thumb tacks. Impaction from wood substrates, fiber substrates and even sand in snakes is a non-issue....well, I guess if a bunch of people with no direct experience with it say it's an issue over and over again, it can take on a life of its own.

Substrate ingestion is no big deal. They eat full bones and fur a little bit of dirt isn't going to kill them. Getting a giant chunk of wood is a bit different but I'm gradually moving away from wooden substrates in general.

As far as the tub thing. You can do it. Or not, literally no difference.

I'm still trying to understand HOW tub feeding would cause organ damage???? I don't understand the logic.
I have my older b.p. on cypress mulch and got a scare the first time I fed him on that substrate. He ingested what I thought was a fairly large, and rigid bit of bark, with the rat pup. It's very possible I'm overreacting, but since then, I feed him in a large tub with a newspaper liner, which is placed right next to his enclosure. I wait right there till he's finished eating and starts to crawl out of that tub. I then very gently pick him up and return him to his normal enclosure. He seems to be fine with it and it certainly makes ME feel better. LOL My younger b.p. is already on newspaper as a substrate so I feed her in her enclosure. So far, everyone is happy. :-)
I would be very interested though, in any documented evidence of organ damage that was directly related to tub feeding. I'm always willing to change my mind IF presented with reliable documentation that there's a better way. Anecdotes don't qualify as "factual" for me.