New to pet snakes, any veteran advice?

So I am looking to get a new pet snake, but tank size will be a bit of an issue. On the internet I have heard many suggestions for getting ball pythons or corn snakes, and far too many arguments about their respective tank sizes. I need to know what size tank both go in, and which one is smaller. It would also be nice to know of any other info, such as which one has better feeding habits, which one eats less, which one costs less, and any other beginner advice.

Thanks in advance, Brittin

If you want to use a tank get a corn snake.

If you want a snake that eats f/t regularly get a corn snake.

Another good option for a great eater in a good size is a king snake.

We have a section of caresheets that will give all the basic info about many different snakes.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

If you want to use a tank get a corn snake.

If you want a snake that eats f/t regularly get a corn snake.

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Ok, thanks. A corn snake sounds good, but what actual size would the tank/terrarium/aquarium need to be. Space is limited, so that's my problem.

40-breeder size tank, or 36"x18"18" enclosure.

Corn snake has better eating habits, eat less (only eat jumbo adult mice at the largest as adults) but more frequently than ball pythons, and costs less as morphs.

If you need a small easy snake, I'd also suggest Kenyan sand boas.

A 40 gallon tank? Really? do you know of any snakes that go into something smaller? I can't really go much above a twenty gallon tank, though I can still try.

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Originally Posted by MixMiner66

A 40 gallon tank? Really? do you know of any snakes that go into something smaller? I can't really go much above a twenty gallon tank, though I can still try.

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Why?


Have you looked at thermostats? That's where your money should go it you're using belly heat.

It's not the cost of a large tank, it's the space that the tank takes up. Also, why should I spend a lot of money on a thermostat? I had a pretty cheap one picked out already.

What thermostat did you get? Brand and model.

Again, this is the one that I am thinking about getting, if and when I get a snake: https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Econo...e+for+reptiles

Also, could somebody please tell me: Is there a good beginner snake that can go in a twenty gallon tank?

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Again, this is the one that I am thinking about getting, if and when I get a snake: https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Econo...e+for+reptiles

Also, could somebody please tell me: Is there a good beginner snake that can go in a twenty gallon tank?

Again, this is the thermostat I am going to get when and If I get a snake: https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Econo...e+for+reptiles

Also, I need to know, is there a beginner snake that can go into a 20 gallon tank?

That's a thermometer, not a thermostat.
Don't get that thermometer, get a digital one like this: https://www.amazon.com/AcuRite-02067...ter+with+probe. They are more accurate.
You will need a thermostat.

But first read this sticky: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...With-Pictures!

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Originally Posted by MixMiner66

Also, I need to know, is there a beginner snake that can go into a 20 gallon tank?

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Male California King snake
Savu Python - but they need a decent amount of humidity
Sand Boa

Ok so let me get this straight, a thermostat is what controls how hot your heating mat gets and thermometer is what monitors it, but what you sent me does both? Also, the tank in that thread is not going to be as fancy as mine. I'm not planning on getting a lamp, second hide, or store bought substrate.

Did you see my kenyan sand boa suggestion?

There's also western hognose, but not all are chill, though they almost never actually bite.

No, that's just a digital thermometer. This is a thermostat: http://www.reptilebasics.com/ve-100 or https://www.amazon.com/MTPRTC-Contro...ile+thermostat

Skip the lamp and use newspaper for substrate... very inexpensive. You will need a heat mat or Flexwatt tape controlled by the thermostat of your choice, no ifs ands or buts... you will need a thermostat even if you have to wait a while to save up money.

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Originally Posted by MixMiner66

Ok so let me get this straight, a thermostat is what controls how hot your heating mat gets and thermometer is what monitors it, but what you sent me does both? Also, the tank in that thread is not going to be as fancy as mine. I'm not planning on getting a lamp, second hide, or store bought substrate.

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The 2nd hide isn't just for show, it's to provide a proper basic setup for a snake, so they can choose when to warm themselves up or when to cool down.

You need to read up on tstats. Not knowing what one is tells me you have research that needs to be done.

A thermometer measure the temp.

A thermostat regulates the power delivered to your heat source to control it. Tstat for short.


I like Herpstats.

http://www.spyderrobotics.com/index....=index&cPath=1

Buy cheap and you'll get cheap. If you think a tstat is expensive you don't want to see the bill from a title get to treat a burn from a cheap tstat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MixMiner66

Ok so let me get this straight, a thermostat is what controls how hot your heating mat gets and thermometer is what monitors it, but what you sent me does both? Also, the tank in that thread is not going to be as fancy as mine. I'm not planning on getting a lamp, second hide, or store bought substrate.

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You may need a lamp depending on your living conditions. You have much reading to do. All the info is here for you.

Start here.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ius)-Caresheet

I agree. Reading this thread more research is in order. These are very common issues that have very common answers. While I applaud you asking there are also stickies as well. I would wait a while. Just my opinion of course.

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Originally Posted by KMG

Buy cheap and you'll get cheap. If you think a tstat is expensive you don't want to see the bill from a title get to treat a burn from a cheap tstat.

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I think he meant "exotic vet". I took in a burned snake (rescue) a few months back, vet bill was $300. A decent thermostat is $50-60.

i'm going to check them out, but right now most of the evidence is pointing towards the Californian king snake

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Originally Posted by KMG

You may need a lamp depending on your living conditions. You have much reading to do. All the info is here for you.

Start here.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ius)-Caresheet

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Basically, I have done enough research on everything other than thermostats and that was only because I have never even heard a website mention one before. The problem is that most of the stuff i'm reading is contradicting other research.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

I agree. Reading this thread more research is in order. These are very common issues that have very common answers. While I applaud you asking there are also stickies as well. I would wait a while. Just my opinion of course.

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Thanks, but as I said before, I have researched everything except thermostats, and that was because on all of the numerous websites I had been looking at, not one ever mentioned one. The other main reason for this thread is because ALL of the information I have read has contradicted something else, but the same is true here. I really just need to know if I can keep a corn snake or a ball python in a twenty gallon tank, because so far it's about 50/50 on who says yes and no.

P.S: A couple posts ago somebody said that the second hide wasn't just for show and I know that, but only a small portion of the websites I have looked at actually agree that it is necessary and especially since I am on a budget, I will have to skip it.

For a 20gl long (make sure it is the "long" version that is longer and not taller), I'd suggest looking at a female Kenyan sand boa. They get about 3' (males are much smaller), are good eaters, don't have picky humidity requirements, etc. They don't even really need hides (they bury themselves in the substrate). It is still great to provide them with options...rocks, climbing branches, etc. but they stay buried most of the time. If you want a snake to watch, then a male king snake will be more visible and active during the day. KSB are easy to handle though and a solid beginner option. If you go with the king, a hide on both the warm and cool end will be needed.

I agree with the poster about about the Accurite thermometer... It is a good choice. A deacent thermostat that doesn't cost a ton, which I have used in the past, is the hydrofarm. It is an "on/off" type thermostat, but seems to work pretty well. I LOVE my herpstats though and think they are the best / safest on the market...They cost a good bit of $$, but are worth it in the long run.

If you are using a glass aquarium, make sure you get a heavy duty mesh top and very good locks / spring locks to keep it on the tank. Many snakes have managed to escape via loose screen tops and a king snake will be an avid climber and probably a good escape artist. Luggage straps may also be a good option to help secure the top of the tank.

Holding proper heat may be difficult and you will need to cover 3 of the sides of the aquarium..it may help to use some form of insulation board for this. If your room temps drop too low (check the care sheet for whatever species you go with), then a heat lamp (I prefer ceramic heat emitters to leave on 24/7) may be in order.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

I think he meant "exotic vet". I took in a burned snake (rescue) a few months back, vet bill was $300. A decent thermostat is $50-60.

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Ok, so you agree with him that I should go for a pretty expensive thermostat? There's an intro level one on that website for $99, do you think that that would work?

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Originally Posted by artgecko

For a 20gl long (make sure it is the "long" version that is longer and not taller), I'd suggest looking at a female Kenyan sand boa. They get about 3' (males are much smaller), are good eaters, don't have picky humidity requirements, etc. They don't even really need hides (they bury themselves in the substrate). It is still great to provide them with options...rocks, climbing branches, etc. but they stay buried most of the time. If you want a snake to watch, then a male king snake will be more visible and active during the day. KSB are easy to handle though and a solid beginner option. If you go with the king, a hide on both the warm and cool end will be needed.

I agree with the poster about about the Accurite thermometer... It is a good choice. A deacent thermostat that doesn't cost a ton, which I have used in the past, is the hydrofarm. It is an "on/off" type thermostat, but seems to work pretty well. I LOVE my herpstats though and think they are the best / safest on the market...They cost a good bit of $$, but are worth it in the long run.

If you are using a glass aquarium, make sure you get a heavy duty mesh top and very good locks / spring locks to keep it on the tank. Many snakes have managed to escape via loose screen tops and a king snake will be an avid climber and probably a good escape artist. Luggage straps may also be a good option to help secure the top of the tank.

Holding proper heat may be difficult and you will need to cover 3 of the sides of the aquarium..it may help to use some form of insulation board for this. If your room temps drop too low (check the care sheet for whatever species you go with), then a heat lamp (I prefer ceramic heat emitters to leave on 24/7) may be in order.

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Wow. Thanks, that's almost everything that I needed in a single post. Thank you, I'll keep it in mind. Also, I live in Alabama so the under tank heater should probably be enough, right?

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Originally Posted by MixMiner66

Ok, so you agree with him that I should go for a pretty expensive thermostat? There's an intro level one on that website for $99, do you think that that would work?

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Dang, they've gone up. If you're talking about the Herpstat Intro then yes that will be fine.

If you're in Alabama then a UTH that is regulated by a decent thermostat will suffice for a king snake, unless you crank your home A/C down below 70*F.

Definitely make sure the screen top is well-secured, those little clips aren't enough and eventually will fail and go flying across the room when your snake puts enough pressure on the lid. King snakes are escape artists.

Another less expensive option for a thermostat is this: https://www.amazon.com/MTPRTC-Contro...ile+thermostat

You always get what you pay for, of course, but this is an option until you can get a better model. Just make sure you pay attention to your temps and get that accurite thermometer. But I know quite a few people that have used this option for a single snake setup.

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Originally Posted by MixMiner66

i'm going to check them out, but right now most of the evidence is pointing towards the Californian king snake

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All depends what you want from your snake ..

I have 5 Royals / Balls and 4 King snakes and Hybrid ( King X Milk ) snake ....

Royals are great for handling a they're so placid , slow moving and docile ( hardly ever bite or nip ) .... wheras my King snakes are all really vibrant colours , very active in the Viv , crazy-scary feeding response , when handling they are rather fast moving and inquisitive plus there is always the chance of getting a little nip or two for no reason :)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MixMiner66

i'm going to check them out, but right now most of the evidence is pointing towards the Californian king snake

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MixMiner66

Thanks, but as I said before, I have researched everything except thermostats, and that was because on all of the numerous websites I had been looking at, not one ever mentioned one. The other main reason for this thread is because ALL of the information I have read has contradicted something else, but the same is true here. I really just need to know if I can keep a corn snake or a ball python in a twenty gallon tank, because so far it's about 50/50 on who says yes and no.

P.S: A couple posts ago somebody said that the second hide wasn't just for show and I know that, but only a small portion of the websites I have looked at actually agree that it is necessary and especially since I am on a budget, I will have to skip it.

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Welcome! You've come to the right place to get the most accurate advice you can. This forum is loaded with knowledgeable people who have years upon years of experience with thousands of snakes. You're going to find contradictory information everywhere, including this forum. However, this forum is by far the best place I've found for quality, reliable information and good people who are passionate about these animals.

A thermostat is one of the most important, if not most important, piece of equipment you can buy and is a MUST. Unless you want to put your snake in danger, risking serious burns, or possibly heat spikes which can be fatal.

I wouldn't keep a corn or a BP in a twenty gallon as an adult, so if you don't have room to upgrade it may not be a good idea to try. I also wouldn't plan on a Kingsnake being in a 20 gallon forever either. My Cal King is 4ft long and 677grams and still growing, albeit slowly at this point. He is in a 40 gallon breeder and uses EVERY square inch. I can't imagine him crammed into a 20 gallon. It would honestly break my heart to put see him in a 20 gallon.

That being said, he is hands down my favorite snake ever. From size, to how he handles, to feeding response (he's never skipped a meal, eats BP and corns refusals) to appearance, to ease of care I love everything about him. He's an absolute sweetheart. With the exception being when he's in shed, then he's a jerk. But, I know him and expect this and just leave him alone while he's in shed.

If a 20 gallon is a make or break, then I would give my 100% vote for a male western hognose. Awesome little snakes, tons of fun!!! Curious and alert, entertaining and adorable. They handle well, despite sometimes being feisty at first. Their defense strategies are hysterical and fascinating. From the way they flatten out to appear bigger, to the hilarious hiss which doesn't scare anybody, to even rolling over and playing dead tongue out and all. I absolutely LOVE my hognose and am 10000000% sure I will be adding a few more to the family.

As for your comment about being on a budget and cutting out one hide: Maybe it's best to wait a while and save up. Do some more research and find out what snake is best for you while you save. It's always smart to have some cash stashed away for any unexpected expenses. Equipment fails, vet visits are almost inevitable, etc.... If you can't afford a second hide (which is proper husbandry for a healthy snake) then you can't afford a vet visit. Hides are pretty cheap and can even be made form items at the dollar store, which is super cheap, so no reason to not provide the proper setup for your new pet.

I've got experience keeping BPs, Kings, corns and hognose and personally would only keep a hognose in a 20 gallon as an adult.

Anyway, I hope I helped.
Feel free to ask any more questions you may have.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

I think he meant "exotic vet". I took in a burned snake (rescue) a few months back, vet bill was $300. A decent thermostat is $50-60.

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Swype strikes again!

Thanks for the correction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MixMiner66

Basically, I have done enough research on everything other than thermostats and that was only because I have never even heard a website mention one before. The problem is that most of the stuff i'm reading is contradicting other research.

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Many sources are. Stick with the caresheet and suggestions here and you'll be fine.

As for heat sources. Does your home ever drop lower than 75? If so, you may need a secondary heat source for those times.

A uth does nothing for your air temp.

Okay, so if you're going for cost-effective, another thing you might want to consider is getting a male ball python (normal morphs are around $20-$40) and putting him in a tub setup!! Get a sterilite underbed tub with latches, around, 18L - 33L (the smallest you can get away with for a male is a 9L, and even a 33L is technically smaller and cheaper, a lot cheaper, than a 20 gal tank) and drill/melt holes in it with a lighter and a screwdriver/drill. You're still gonna need a thermostat and heat mat (the kind without the sticky back, like MicroClimate, Fluker's premium heat mat (small), and FlexWatt heat tape work best for tubs), of course, and use newspaper or paper towel as substrate. Depending on the size of the tub, you'll get away with a single hide. You can get smaller tubs for a snake like a ball python (especially the males, that are smaller) because they do not move a lot and they feel safer in snug environments. They don't need any supplemental lighting and will do just fine on paper towel with a water bowl and hide. Tubs are ideal for ball pythons because they hold humidity well and all you have to do is mist the paper towel substrate with water once a week to keep the humidity up. But, of course, as with any enclosure, you'll wanna check humidity levels and temps daily. If you find that your tub is too humid, just add more holes. That'll help prevent scale rot. However, as you know, BPs can be somewhat picky eaters. If you're having trouble getting him to eat, you can try submerging your f/t food item's head in HOT water, and grab it with the feeding tongs by the scruff of the neck rather than the tail, to try to coerce a feeding response. It usually works. :D

I forgot to add, I would recommend an 18L or 33L tub. Tubs have the floorspace without unnecessary height added. You can get a clear tub, but if the snake is stressed, try throwing a towel over the tub or get a tub that's darker, like, a black or smoky tub. This may eliminate a need for a hide if a towel thrown over the tub turns the snake's whole enclosure into a hide. Of course, it's always better to provide your snake with a hide or two from the start, and the only way I would think it's alright to only get one hide is if the only way to provide two is to get them too small for the snake. Does that make sense??
(by the way, im borrowing this account with permission from the user, lol. I've been keeping snakes for 10 years)

Hides also don't have to be expensive. Ever eat Ramen noodles? Those black plastic rectangular containers can be turned into hides very easily - just run them through the dishwasher, use scissors or kitchen shears to make an access hole, smooth any sharp edges with an emery board, and it's done.

So, for a buck (or 50 cents on sale) you've got a cheap lunch at the office and a snake hide.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Hides also don't have to be expensive. Ever eat Ramen noodles? Those black plastic rectangular containers can be turned into hides very easily - just run them through the dishwasher, use scissors or kitchen shears to make an access hole, smooth any sharp edges with an emery board, and it's done.

So, for a buck (or 50 cents on sale) you've got a cheap lunch at the office and a snake hide.

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Hey that's exactly what I do...