Raising Ball on Mice?

I have this bias against mice, so I am fine with throwing them into the jaws of my Ball Python (Thomas) when he gets hungry (he's on live). But people tend to think that mice are bad for balls, and that you're supposed to feed them rats.

I like feeding my ball live because it provides him with still some natural sense of being an animal, and I get to know what it's been eating and how it has been living, and to me it's like fresh vs. frozen vegetables. But the problem is, I'm fine with giving him live mice but I honestly love rats and think they're absolutely adorable and hilarious little things. I would never want a mouse as a pet, but a rat would be something I would grow an emotional attachment to.

Can my BP thrive on only mice (multiple mice per week, he's been getting hungrier lately) and still be healthy? I want him to be healthy and happy (if snakes can even feel 'happiness'), but at the same time I don't want to be feeding him something that I find cute. Which may mean I just shouldn't have a ball. :P

He's been getting very hungry lately, so I don't know if I should just give him multiple mice or feed him rats...I'm at a crossroad right now. Does anyone have experience with this?

All BS about rats are better for him. The problem is mice is small. When snake becomes 2kg you might need many mice to feed him. Which is time consuming and expensive

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Originally Posted by VIP CONSTRICTORS

All BS about rats are better for him....

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Agree 100%. If anything I say mice are better nutritionally. The diet mice prefer is much leaner vs the diet rats prefer and is more similar to the diet of African Soft Furs = mice are a leaner protein source.

Yes your BP will do fine on mice, gram per gram it's all the same, the only difference is that with rats you can feed one with mice you need to feed multiple.

People prefer rats because of the convenience (feeding one prey vs multiple) and because the cost is lower to feed one rat vs multiple.

At the end of the day feed what works for YOU and YOUR animals.

I'm no expert, but I feed mine mice. They are both around 300 grams so they are on the brink of outgrowing an x large mouse. I feed them mice because they are cheaper. As soon as they will take small rats I will probably switch them over rather than feeding 2 mice.


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I'm very confused it's been said on here numerous times feeding rats is better?

I'm very confused it's been said on here numerous times feeding rats is better nutritional ? Now not so much?

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

I'm very confused it's been said on here numerous times feeding rats is better?

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Not better nutrition wise. They are pretty much the same as far as nutrition goes.

Rats get significantly bigger than mice so a single rat can equal many mice.

It is quicker and cheaper to feed a single rat than multiple mice. So therefore, better.

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

I'm very confused it's been said on here numerous times feeding rats is better nutritional ? Now not so much?

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mice and rats are almost equal nutritionally. the reason most of us push for switching over to rats is because once the animal gets older, the largest mice will not be a big enough meal for the snake. rats are bigger, so you will need only 1 appropriately sized rats vs however many mice. this is also cheaper. also, feeding multiple feeders in very taxing on the snake's digestive system, and their digestion is already a big deal on them.

No no no It has been said multiple times rats are nutritionally better. Sorry it has. Sad.

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

No no no It has been said multiple times rats are nutritionally better. Sorry it has. Sad.

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because it's been said doesn't make it true.

here's nutrition info on all the feeders from Rodent Pro
http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

No no no It has been said multiple times rats are nutritionally better. Sorry it has. Sad.

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http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

Wow Taylor, you are a keyboard ninja. I need to hire you. LOL

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

Wow Taylor, you are a keyboard ninja. I need to hire you. LOL

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:ninja::ninja::ninja::P

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Wow Taylor, you are a keyboard ninja. I need to hire you. LOL

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Hahah this is too funny, He sure is!

Then ninja a search on here, and see what you find about what was said or advised. And It has, multiple times. Deb has stated it multiple times search search.

And no I don't want to make trouble, but I know it's been promoted on here as such multiple times. If we're helping people, then help them.

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By the way I'm a mouser.

I've read that rats provide more protein than an equal weight of mice because the snake is getting more meat on one rat, and more fur and skin on the multiple mice, per equal weight meal.
I know you like rats as pets, but FT would solve that problem. (No longer warm, soft, and cuddly) :rofl:
Even if the nutrition equals out, the cost doesn't.

Having said that, go with what works for your snake (if he's healthy, no need to change) and then you (pet preference).
As an afterthought, though, if you continue with live, rats are probably not a good thing. They can do some serious damage in an eye blink.

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

No no no It has been said multiple times rats are nutritionally better. Sorry it has. Sad.

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The difference is minimal and since there is no study on BP nutritional requirement no one can make such a claim.

If you feed the same amount of food in grams your animal will grow at the same rate the problem is when people feed mice they will feed less than if they feed rats and vice versa.

The it's better when it comes to rats come down to cost and convenience.

This applies to BP now if we talk about colubrids yes one prey is better than another but it is because of the size prey fed and fat content of the same size prey (different debate entirely)

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

No no no It has been said multiple times rats are nutritionally better. Sorry it has. Sad.

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It's just one of those incorrect 'facts' that get passed around and become gospel . Like when you see a comment saying that if your Royal hides away 24/7 they must be happy , yet if you add some branches they spend hours each evening climbing around . Are we to believe that they are not happy as they're choosing to climb and not hide away ??

I've seen scientific data showing mice / rats are identical nutrition wise . It's just what the other guys have said .


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The closest pet store to me only go up to medium feeder mice. Two of mine are on f/t small mice. The other two refuse f/t, so they're on live. I just go buy 16 frozen and 16 live. Keep the live in a tub. Keep the f/t in freezer, and hope I don't confuse them for a tv dinner. Do that every month. May have to feed more often. And may end up being costly. But at $1.29 each, it hasn't been too bad so far.

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Originally Posted by SPIDERBALL

The closest pet store to me only go up to medium feeder mice. Two of mine are on f/t small mice. The other two refuse f/t, so they're on live. I just go buy 16 frozen and 16 live. Keep the live in a tub. Keep the f/t in freezer, and hope I don't confuse them for a tv dinner. Do that every month. May have to feed more often. And may end up being costly. But at $1.29 each, it hasn't been too bad so far.

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I have the opposite problem at my local store. They have retired breeder mice then "small" rats that are to big for my snakes. Got a small rat one day and there was no way my 300g snake was going to eat it. Weighed the rat at over 100g. I didn't think to check it til I got home. My bad. I've found rodentpro sells xlarge mice for $.80 ea. Or comparable sized weaned rats for $1.25 ea. Cheaper to feed mice for the time being in my case. The other thing is I would imagine a mature animal would have more calcium and other minerals than an underdeveloped one?


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I remember years ago when it was said a rat was better nutritionally than mice. I remember when people used to say feeding multiple feeders at a time wasn't good for your snake. I remember when it was accepted and recommended to soak your snake for long periods of time. I remember a lot of things I was told in the beginning that aren't necessarily true today.

This is still an evolving industry. More people involved in the industry means more knowledge learned and spread.

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Originally Posted by aquajunky02

I have the opposite problem at my local store. They have retired breeder mice then "small" rats that are to big for my snakes. Got a small rat one day and there was no way my 300g snake was going to eat it. Weighed the rat at over 100g. I didn't think to check it til I got home. My bad. I've found rodentpro sells xlarge mice for $.80 ea. Or comparable sized weaned rats for $1.25 ea. Cheaper to feed mice for the time being in my case. The other thing is I would imagine a mature animal would have more calcium and other minerals than an underdeveloped one?


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Yeah but shipping is what kills me

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Originally Posted by SPIDERBALL

Yeah but shipping is what kills me

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They come to my local reptile show roughly once every 2 months. You may check your local shows and see if they attend?


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I feed a lot of mice to my ball pythons, mainly because I breed them and always have way too many LOL. I have a huge Jungle Woma Spider female that is a big mouser, she will almost never take a rat, but she will take multiple mice. The good thing about breeding mice is that they never get too big for my snakes. I have to use my rats before they get to a certain size otherwise they grow up to be 1.25 pounds each! That's one of the reasons I bought my dwarf / super dwarf retics was to eat the big ol rats that didn't get used up in time. Most snakes that are picky eaters will take a mouse over a rat, so I like to have them on hand. Mice are great for ball python hatchlings! Cost isn't really an issue for me since I raise all my own rodents, I just fill the trays with food in my rodent rack and it keeps them pretty much the whole week without having to top off.

Here's my Jungle Woma Spider female. She is doing great on a diet of mice:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...oma_spider.JPG

cchardwick, how many mice does she eat?

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Originally Posted by RickyNY

cchardwick, how many mice does she eat?

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Ditto. Big girl like that has to be several a feeding no? I have a male that's a lil under 600 grams. Little bastard will not take a rat it's driving me nuts. He will take 3 mice in one meal. Really want to get him switched as I breed rats. May just have to with hold meals till he take a rat who knows. Right now it's not such a pain as I'm at the pet store for dog food somewhat regularly anyway but I hate having to keep a separate enclosure for mice. And not for nothing they stink a heck of a lot worse than my rats. Have the rats in my basement and don't even notice long as I keep up on the tub maintenance. Have a few mice for a few days and I know right away [emoji90][emoji90][emoji90]

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cchardwick, do you pre-filled before you feed? Or, do you feed live?