Feeding Question

For an adult. If you are feeding large rats. how often would you feed? I've had plenty of people tell me once a week. As long as the snake maintains the rectangular body shape you are fine. That is what I do. But I just had a recent FB encounter in a BC group with a guy that went nuclear at the idea of feeding a boa weekly ever. Something about boas having a slower metabolism than pythons so you feed them less often no matter the size. Apparently his rant got so bad it got deleted.

What do you guys think.

Boas do have a slower metabolism than pythons and any boa over a year old should be feed 10 days to 4-5 weeks depending on the size. I feed all my boas every 7-10 days when on mice. After they graduate to weaned/small rats at about 1.5 years old, then its every 2 weeks. When up to medium rats, every 3-4 weeks. When up to large rats, every 3-5 weeks. Generally more in the summer and less in the winter. And more for females and less for males. These are all guidelines and you as the owner will need to watch and learn your own snake. Some handle the food well, some dont and gain weight fast. Also when they go through growth spurts, you can feed a little heavier. Key is to maintain that squarish look.

And remember, a happy boa will ALWAYS be hungry and ready to eat. They are opportunistic feeders. Heck my baby suriname and salmon bci just ate yesterday but when they smelled food today for my dumerils, they both went crazy and my suriname struck the cage door 2 times i walked by and did the hovering ready to strike pose. My bci was glued to the front of the door watching every move with huge eyes. Even now, if i wiggle my finger above the litter dam outside the cage, my baby suriname slowly creeps out and comes towards my finger lol. And they both just ate yesterday like i said. Happy boas are always hungry.

And to answer your question specifically, a large rat for an adult should be given every 3-5 weeks depending on the snake. I generally give my 6.5' female a large rat every 4 weeks with a rabbit here and there every 4-5 weeks depending how big the rabbit is.

How I feed. Appropriate sized mouse the first two years. Little to no lump after a meal.

Mice – Every 14 days
Weaned-Small Rats– Every 3-4 weeks
Medium-Large Rats – Every 4-6 weeks
Jumbo Rats – Every 6-8 weeks


The older they get the less they seem to need. My 13 year old eats a large rat every 8 weeks or so now.

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

For an adult. If you are feeding large rats. how often would you feed? I've had plenty of people tell me once a week. As long as the snake maintains the rectangular body shape you are fine. That is what I do. But I just had a recent FB encounter in a BC group with a guy that went nuclear at the idea of feeding a boa weekly ever. Something about boas having a slower metabolism than pythons so you feed them less often no matter the size. Apparently his rant got so bad it got deleted.

What do you guys think.

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They had good reason to be concerned.

Do you think a boa eats weekly in nature? Compound that with captive bred, fatty prey that we feed and you have a disaster in the making unless you don't care if your boa, which is very capable of living beyond 20 years, will die off early.

Manifestation of fat in a boa isn't something you'd catch externally unless it was too late.

I'm not sure why folks miss out on the book Vincent Russo wrote, THE COMPLETE BOA CONSTRICTOR but the book does explain the diet of boas. Mick Mutton and Vin also spoke of over feeding in captivity on a podcast show. Grab a copy of the book if you don't have one. You will be happy you did.

Gus Rentfro, who is a world authority on boa constrictors states that it is "Entirely to east to over feed a boa, but almost impossible to under feed one."

A large rat every 21 days to a month is plenty for an adult boa constrictor.

In my opinion, mixing up the frequency of feeding and the prey type and size is the best way to go.

I don't feed my boa from Late October until late March or early April. Yet still he grows. Maybe even more-so when he doesn't eat.

You have to think about what reptiles were designed to do. They are extremely efficient and capable of going long periods without food, and our keeping disrupts their natural cycle no matter how hard we try to provide the proper elements. This whole topic is much more complex than a feeding schedule.

There is simply no reason to feed and adult boa weekly. I'd even state that almost NO snake, other than a young, developing animal needs weekly feedings.

Think long term, as in 20 plus years.

If you are specifically asking about boas, you will not hear an intelligent, well researched boa keeper ever talk about weekly feeding an adult boa.

My adults are fed once a month give or take a week or two.

When boas/pythons eat, their organs change (they get larger*) and it can be very taxing on their system. Not to mention how easy it is to overfeed them (a boa can have fatty deposits without looking 'obese').

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/...ng-snake-heart

Stuff like this is where my confusion comes from I guess. This guy seems like he knows what he is talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4T5C5_Qyew

He talks about feeding his biggest a jumbo rat once a week about 20 mins in this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLGC48DdxQk

Most people vastly overfeed snakes. Personally my dumerils boa I fed every two weeks for the first couple years, now he eats every 2 to 3, he's about 2.5 now and on small rats. Was on adult mice before. My boa constrictor at about 6 feet long and 5 years old gets a medium prey item every three-four weeks and gets a couple large meals thrown in over the course of the year.

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

Stuff like this is where my confusion comes from I guess. This guy seems like he knows what he is talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4T5C5_Qyew

He talks about feeding his biggest a jumbo rat once a week about 20 mins in this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLGC48DdxQk

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I've comment on these videos before as I thought some of the info was not productive.

I like his passion and he does have some good advice, but like so many,,,,, feeding frequency and amounts seem to escape even the most well intentioned keepers.

Vin Russo, Gus Rentfro and Eugene Basset are excellent sources.

Boas in particular benefit from the "less is more" attitude.

As I mentioned above, this is a complex subject and there are many factors involved, however 90% of the time conservative feeding is the healthiest approach, and knowing your animal is also important.

Grab the book if you can!!

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Originally Posted by Gio

Manifestation of fat in a boa isn't something you'd catch externally unless it was too late.

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I believe this is one of the most important but unknown aspects of boa care and health.
I'm sorry you encountered such an aggressive rant, this can be a contentious topic and I know there is a lot of contradictory info floating around out there*. That is why i use facebook mostly for cool snake pictures and classifieds but this group for real information. Not only are the users here extremely knowledgable, but also a more mature and respectful decorum is maintained. I hope they've helped solve your feeding dilemma, many of the above users are the ones who helped me start my boa hobby, they also reccomend Vin Russo's book, which i've read cover to cover and keep on my desk at all times (i got to meet him this weekend at the White Plains expo!).

*Regarding Jordan's "Snake Feeding 101" video, it pains me to contradict him because his videos were very influential to me. When I only knew that i wanted a snake but nothing else about the hobby at all, his videos alone were what really convinced me that boas were the way to go. I think that he has a ton of integrity, that he cares deeply for his animals, that he is very knowledgable about many aspects of husbandry, and that his is the most accurate, positive, and charismatic characterization and depiction of boas - but i dont think his feeding habits are correct.

Thanks guys for the civil responses. You guys are always good about this stuff.

Coming from BP land I am used to the guidelines being just that: Guidelines.

When I first researched this years ago. It was like this:

Baby once a week
Yearling every 10 days or so.
2 yrs plus every 2-4 weeks depending on prey size.

All those the "appropriately sized food." I had always understood appropriately sized food as food that doesn't cause such a big bulge that they might throw it up.

I went from 1 mouse to 3-4 mice at once to small rats. Was on small rats for a long time every couple weeks. I remember actually being concerned because she was as big as pics I'd seen online of similarly aged boas. I was assured that she was fine and keep doing what I was doing. So as she got bigger I upped the size to match. She's on what rodent pro calls extra large right now. Looks like as appetizer. She's big enough to eat a rabbit for sure but I can't bring myself to do it yet since I have a pet rabbit. And that would just be....weird.

So I started reading where some folks you didn't have access or couldn't afford rabbits just fed them smaller meals more often. As long as the keeps their rectangle shape they should be fine. And that made perfect sense to me since I come from BP land and that's a perfectly acceptable thing to do there.

So that's what I have done the past couple months since reading about it and seeing Jordan's videos.

I might get that book you mentioned later. But at $60 I can't swing that right now. Seems worth it based off the reviews on Amazon.

While going off on a rant may not have been the best way for that Facebook poster to get his point across and perhaps he would benefit greatly from reading Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People, he was absolutely correct: a large rat every week is way too much food for any adult boa, and yes in general boas have slower metabolisms than pythons do so they should be fed less often.

A general rule I like to use when feeding is to take the animal's age, add one, and that's the number of weeks between feedings. So, a one year old is fed every two weeks, a two year old is fed every three weeks, etc.

Once the critter is eating every four weeks I'll leave females on that schedule, males will get pushed out to six weeks, and I offer feeder rabbits (because they're low in fat) that are about 75% of the boa's girth so there really isn't a food lump visible after it eats.

People tend to do that more on Facebook 🙄

Anyways glad you were able to find the information you need. I feed my adult male no more than once a month but usually it's about every six weeks

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

All those the "appropriately sized food." I had always understood appropriately sized food as food that doesn't cause such a big bulge that they might throw it up.

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IMO "appropriately sized food" for a boa is something the same thickness as the boa. You don't want it to cause a bulge (it will bulge up a bit within 24-48 hours regardless). Pythons, specifically the 'giants', can handle food that leaves an obvious bulge. While boas *can* it's generally not a good idea.

My largest girl was just over 8' and I fed her two XL rats (f/t) at one time every 6 weeks. She could handle a small rabbit, which I did a few times but at that time my source was $10/lb and it was way too expensive. The one small rabbit would last her for 2 months before she needed to be fed again and left a slight bulge. The 2 XL rats didn't leave a bulge and she did great on that diet for over 10 years. My other adults (which are in the 6-7' range) do great on one XL rat per feeding.

I am also glad you are asking questions, we were all there once trying to figure out what was best.
One of my first posts on kingsnake back in the day was 'is my boa a BCi and BCc' :D

April,

So this is what perplexes me. If it's ok to feed multiple smaller prey once every few weeks then why not one every couple? I am just wanting to understand it better.

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

April,

So this is what perplexes me. If it's ok to feed multiple smaller prey once every few weeks then why not one every couple? I am just wanting to understand it better.

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Check out the link I posted earlier.
Feeding causes their organs to swell which is taxing on their system.
One appropriate sized meal (if that is one item or two smaller items that make up the same amount) causes one digestion period.
One smaller item fed more often means they are having to go through the digestion process more often. The organs (heart, liver, etc) swelling up and going down much more often.
I hope that helps explain?

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

April,

So this is what perplexes me. If it's ok to feed multiple smaller prey once every few weeks then why not one every couple? I am just wanting to understand it better.

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Its not. 2 XL every 6 weeks is too much. If I was two small it would be better but 2xl is a lot of food to feed consistently. I could literally not fed my 13 year old boa at all in the next 12 months and if she even lost a pound I'd be really surprised. Like mentioned before by someone I don't feed for about 3 months at all during winter.

This is my 13 year old 8ft girl. She gets large rats every 8 weeks or so with that 3 month fast in winter (which is really just an extra month between meals on this schedule). I do offer a 1-2lb rabbit about once a year now just to change it up. I had bloodwork done on her last year that came back exceedingly normal according to the vet. She was surprised since she's used to seeing issues from her clients with boas and they don't tend to be as old. I've had this one her whole life from when she was a month or two old from a pet store. I've fed her very little from the start. She started on mice then moved to rats. She's always been fasted too except for maybe the first year. I was lucky that when I was young a boa breeder took an interest and made sure my mother and I had the correct information.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2FtzMkMDE.jpg

And here is another point of confusion. Just in this thread, there are 5 different "ways" to feed. Some are more than just "this is how I do it" but seem to also say "this is THE way to do it."

I did look at that article. But it didn't seem to be Boa specific but snake generic using a burmese as the example. And it didn't say anything was bad about that. If fact it seemd to imply it was good and they were trying to make it happen in mice and eventually people with medical issues.

I am going to start feeding less often again but I am not going to do months between just for rats.

This topic is actually excellent discussion and everybody is considerate of other folks and their methods. NO board should be filled with attitudes that make others feel slighted and dumb for asking questions.

Snakes are not rocket science, not at all but they are also very, very complex. Unless you are very well read, and researched as a keeper, you will more than likely fall in the middle ground of the feeding and husbandry scale. It's OK, there are always areas we can improve in our own setups and there is always new information coming.

I tend to dive deeply into the field studies and biology of the snakes I keep. I read several posts on this board monthly or even weekly about royal pythons refusing food. I asked the same questions years ago, but now from really looking into the wild lives of reptiles, it is crystal clear to me why the longest living snake, at least documented captive snake, was a royal python.

Royals live long because many, not all, will self regulate their feeding frequency. I'd put heavy, heavy odds on the older the snake is, the less it has eaten throughout its life.

Less food, and more exercise usually equals better health. Captive prey is much more fatty than wild prey.

I can only touch on a few things as the topic grows each time you add an element. For instance, breeding plays a part in this. I don't use any of my animals for that purpose. My male boa never experiences the hormonal cues a female boa will give off as I don't have a female boa in the house. His activity may be less because of that, and he may eat more often than refuse because of that.

Gus Rentfro told me personally that it was completely possible for my male BC to grow to the size of a female if I were to keep him as a pet only.

BTW, I started out slightly over feeding him in his first year and maybe 2 IMO.

Now, I rely heavily on information I read and have been told about seasonality and its relation to diet and activity levels in captive boas.

I drop my temps at night plus for an extended period in the fall when I will not feed from late October or early November until late March or early April.

If you were to see my male boa in person, you'd think he was made of steel.

I challenge him once in a while with large prey like a rabbit, but then follow up with an extended period with nothing and when the next meal comes his way it is something very small. In the wild he can't order from a supplier, and his millions of years worth of evolution supersede anything I decide.

Technically, you could feed 2 prey items at a time. I'm sure a wild snake, given the opportunity would certainly go for it. However it is probably rare and you have to make up for "doubling up" on the other end.

Do you see where this is going? Nothing is set in stone other than the fact almost all wild snakes run into a feast and famine situation.

My two favorite snake books are THE COMPLETE BOA CONSTRICTOR and THE COMPLETE CARPET PYTHON

There some other good books that are more field study oriented out there too. THE BIOLOGY OF BOAS AND PYTHONS

All of those books are worth reading. As a matter of fact read everything you can and see where it takes you.

Think long term when it comes to snakes.

The bottom line is still the quote I read from Gus Rentfro and posted earlier.

"While it is almost impossible to under feed a healthy boa constrictor, it is entirely too easy to over feed one."

I want this one next! One of the breeders I bought from posted it.
The Reproductive Husbandry of Pythons and Boas by Ross

First I have to buy the one about old world Ratsnakes I've been eyeing but that one is over $100 so I've been delaying a bit.

I don't keep boas but I am 100% with what GIO says. So many people get upset when balls fast. I do not. I love the fact that they self regulate. I have a couple that eat no matter what. It is going to be interesting to see if they have the longevity of the ones that go on extended fasts. I am going to talk to my vet the next time I am in and find out if there is a test he can run for fat comparing an animal that fasts with one that does not.

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

I did look at that article. But it didn't seem to be Boa specific but snake generic using a burmese as the example. And it didn't say anything was bad about that. If fact it seemd to imply it was good and they were trying to make it happen in mice and eventually people with medical issues.

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I couldn't find the paper I wanted to link so I found one that explained the changes as scientifically as possible via a quick google search. Just because it wasn't boa specific doesn't mean it didn't apply in general. The 'good' in that article is how they can use the findings for hearth growth in other species, the point I was trying to show was about how rapid organ expansion and contraction may not be good. Need to give the snake's body time to 'rest'. I really wish I could find the write up someone had done about this (which included boas) but I could not find it. Sorry if my information is not helpful to you.

I did mention my other boas and how I feed them and what has worked for me. My oldest boa was euthanized this year as her health was declining, she was 28 years old. My next 2 oldest boas are both 19. Different things work for different people, slow growth and spaced out feedings have worked for me and seem to help the longevity of my snakies.
:gj:

Here is another article. Python again but it goes along with what is being talked about.

Thank you everyone for being so civil about everything even with the disagreements. I did a LOT more online research. The common consensus is anywhere from 2 to 6 weeks based off prey size and snake size. So I am going to find a happy middle ground and just keep an eye on her.