Update from new owner, please help

Hello again!

This is our current set up. Even with diy and much much smaller hides we are concerned because our snake is balled up in the corner. We are seriously considering alt for housing. We plan to attempt a feed Wednesday. If we cannot successfully feed by then we will switch energy to a bin. Bin recommendations welcome and appreciated. Help with tank also desperately needed and appreciated.

We diy a dimmer system with an automated thermostat on the way, as well as adding tinfoil for humidity (from the diy forum)
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2FnYO8mwD.jpg

There is waayyyy to much open space in there. I no doubt feels very exposed, you need to fill all those open spacing with something, whether it be foliage or branched or really anything. I'm sure he is it that corner because everywhere else just feels to open and he doesn't feel safe


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1. Cover the sides and back with thick paper for added security.

2. The hides being white are probably allowing the inside to be lit up which will not make the snake feel secure. Get dark colored containers instead that will be dark inside.

3. Clutter up all the open space in the tank to give the snake cover and concealment while moving around. Fake plants, crumpled newspaper, moss, etc.

Probes for the heat/humidity sensor should sit lower to the ground, to monitor the level the snake will be sitting at. Consider hot gluing them to the glass if the snake ends up pulling off the suction cups regularly.

Agreeing with KMG otherwise. Darker/thicker hides. Clutter, such as fake plants, substrate, moss, pvc tubing; preferably a bit of dabbling in all of them to see which your BP ends up preferring for their living situation.

I second pretty much all of what has already been said.

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Originally Posted by Thelittlecoggirl

Hello again!

This is our current set up. Even with diy and much much smaller hides we are concerned because our snake is balled up in the corner. We are seriously considering alt for housing. We plan to attempt a feed Wednesday. If we cannot successfully feed by then we will switch energy to a bin. Bin recommendations welcome and appreciated. Help with tank also desperately needed and appreciated.

We diy a dimmer system with an automated thermostat on the way, as well as adding tinfoil for humidity (from the diy forum)
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2FnYO8mwD.jpg

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Everything has already been said to be honest .

I'd picture yourself in that setup but try and think like a baby snake ...

Clearly need a warm and cooler side with ideally identical hides at each end ( plus others if possible dotted around ) .

I'd then put dark paper on three sides ( already suggested ) and get to a local woods / forest and collect some branches and pieces of dead/dried bark - can't really have too much clutter . I also get cheap fake foleage from one of the Pound shops .
The snake will then feel happier and more secure and certainly more likely to settle down and even eat .


Good luck !!

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I'd picture yourself in that setup but try and think like a baby snake ...

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Clever way to make the point you were trying to make, Zinc. I like it!!!! :gj:

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Clever way to make the point you were trying to make, Zinc. I like it!!!! :gj:

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That's my Aspergers kicking in :)

LOL. Think like a ball.

Female...
Most days. Let me see how little I can do today and how small a place I can fit my gigantic butt into.
After dark. Food guy is in the room. See if he has rat. Nope. Go back to sleep.
10% let me out to play.
Another 10%. Leave me alone. I don't like you.

Males...
Daytime. Sleep.
Nighttime. I know this is the thousandth time I have tried, but maybe this time I can find a way to get to that girls tub.
Comes to front of tub, you going to let me go on a date tonight?
80%. Stop trying to feed me you know I only eat six months out of the year.

All...
Oh wow! Poop! Let me see if I can paint a picture.

To the OP. There are reasons beyond just saving space that breeders keep balls like this.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...62e3bea1ce.jpg

The biggest being it is super easy to keep the animals content, healthy, and "happy" with minimal maintenance.

I'd question wether snakes stacked up in small containers in racks are 'happy' to be honest.

Have a Royal / Ball in a Viv /rub with a hide ( preferably two ) and a water dish and it's fair to say you won't see much of them ...

Add some branches and fake foliage and the same Royal will be out roaming and climbing for hours every evening .

I prefer the latter if only as they're be getting some exercise . .. I also think they're happier climbing and slithering around or else they wouldn't bother and just stay in their hides ..


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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I'd question wether snakes stacked up in small containers in racks are 'happy' to be honest.

Have a Royal / Ball in a Viv /rub with a hide ( preferably two ) and a water dish and it's fair to say you won't see much of them ...

Add some branches and fake foliage and the same Royal will be out roaming and climbing for hours every evening .

I prefer the latter if only as they're be getting some exercise . .. I also think they're happier climbing and slithering around or else they wouldn't bother and just stay in their hides ..


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We are going to have to agree to disagree on this. They are not human. To assign human thought processes and or needs is a mistake in my opinion. I observe the behaviors of these animals a lot. My snakes are handled often and are out of their tubs a lot. When out of their tubs they will exhibit one of two behaviors. The shy ones "run" and will find the smallest darkest place they can find to hide in. The "better adjusted ones" are content to sit around my neck, lay where I put them, or play horse for my daughter's barbies. Males are more active than females and will climb given the opportunity but it is not because they are bored. They are looking for females or they are hungry. Ball pythons are feast/famine animals. As such they will only expend energy when they have to. I have yet to see an adult female attempt to climb. When given a choice they will go down rather than up. Most of my girls are heavy bodied animals. They are not built to climb, move fast, or move far.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this. They are not human. To assign human thought processes and or needs is a mistake in my opinion. I observe the behaviors of these animals a lot. My snakes are handled often and are out of their tubs a lot. When out of their tubs they will exhibit one of two behaviors. The shy ones "run" and will find the smallest darkest place they can find to hide in. The "better adjusted ones" are content to sit around my neck, lay where I put them, or play horse for my daughter's barbies. Males are more active than females and will climb given the opportunity but it is not because they are bored. They are looking for females or they are hungry. Ball pythons are feast/famine animals. As such they will only expend energy when they have to. I have yet to see an adult female attempt to climb. When given a choice they will go down rather than up. Most of my girls are heavy bodied animals. They are not built to climb, move fast, or move far.

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You'll have to excuse the copy and pasted account below .

I found it to be rather enlightening ... taken from another reptile site .



"I have a friend who has been living in Ghana for a few months and befriended some snake people involved in catching wild ball pythons, among other native snake species! Exciting stuff, he got deets on where ball pythons are found, straight from the trapper/exporter (named Gyasi) himself… I told him to ask for more exact percentages on where they're mostly found in Africa:

55% in “the bushes / branches" near ponds

25% under rocks

10% under trees when they are well fed/full

10% around trash areas (like literally in piles of trash apparently LOL)

No mention of termite mounds or “hiding in holes their whole life”, at least from this trapper. Go figure?
My friend also hasn’t seen very many grassland areas or open areas in Ghana at least where he is, even the drier areas have a lot of low-growing trees.
He went with his trapper group on a short expedition lately too, and that sounded exciting, getting to see the native range and habitat of these animals.
In conclusion: ball pythons have a very wide natural habitat range! They are not solely ambush predators like gaboons, and definitely not living in holes and hiding their whole life. Funny thing, the trapper mentioned nothing of holes or termite mounds himself haha. I think my friend brought up the "holes and termite mounds" thing, since I asked specifically about how this is always preached in the states, and Gyasi was just like "?????" If the holes thing is from other trappers, it must be only one very small part of how ball pythons live!
My friend is on this forum, but he never posted before. I'm trying to get him to eventually post a short journal and pics of the habitat and the various wild caught snakes there, it would be fun! (I've seen the pics already bahah)
Anyway, I think these are exciting and interesting details, because I personally believe at this point that the average keeper/breeder's knowledge that is constantly preached in the states on their natural habitat and living conditions are apparently quite skewed. And it's always nice to be more informed about the animals we are keeping and the way they are kept. The more knowledge, the better !"




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Originally Posted by Zincubus

You'll have to excuse the copy and pasted account below .

I found it to be rather enlightening ... taken from another reptile site .



"I have a friend who has been living in Ghana for a few months and befriended some snake people involved in catching wild ball pythons, among other native snake species! Exciting stuff, he got deets on where ball pythons are found, straight from the trapper/exporter (named Gyasi) himself… I told him to ask for more exact percentages on where they're mostly found in Africa:

55% in “the bushes / branches" near ponds

25% under rocks

10% under trees when they are well fed/full

10% around trash areas (like literally in piles of trash apparently LOL)

No mention of termite mounds or “hiding in holes their whole life”, at least from this trapper. Go figure?
My friend also hasn’t seen very many grassland areas or open areas in Ghana at least where he is, even the drier areas have a lot of low-growing trees.
He went with his trapper group on a short expedition lately too, and that sounded exciting, getting to see the native range and habitat of these animals.
In conclusion: ball pythons have a very wide natural habitat range! They are not solely ambush predators like gaboons, and definitely not living in holes and hiding their whole life. Funny thing, the trapper mentioned nothing of holes or termite mounds himself haha. I think my friend brought up the "holes and termite mounds" thing, since I asked specifically about how this is always preached in the states, and Gyasi was just like "?????" If the holes thing is from other trappers, it must be only one very small part of how ball pythons live!
My friend is on this forum, but he never posted before. I'm trying to get him to eventually post a short journal and pics of the habitat and the various wild caught snakes there, it would be fun! (I've seen the pics already bahah)
Anyway, I think these are exciting and interesting details, because I personally believe at this point that the average keeper/breeder's knowledge that is constantly preached in the states on their natural habitat and living conditions are apparently quite skewed. And it's always nice to be more informed about the animals we are keeping and the way they are kept. The more knowledge, the better !"




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That was posted here by Red about a month ago.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

That was posted here by Red about a month ago.

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Fair enough .... makes for interesting reading though IMHO


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Did he look in termite mounds?

If I were a State Trooper and all the cows I've ever encountered were roaming loose on the interstate, I might conclude that all cows live on highways and roads.

Of course ball pythons do have to come out and get water or move to a new place or roam to find a mate, many reasons. But there's video of python hunters literally breaking open the termite mounds to retrieve the snakes inside. So a friend who heard from a guy who talked to some guys who found ball pythons in random places doesn't mean that the python hunters from the videos didn't actually find all but one of the balls in the termite mounds.

Ball pythons have always done quite well in smaller, darker bins. Many times when someone comes in with a problem feeder snake, it is a tank keeper. Some solve the issue with crowding the tank. Some move to bins.

The ability to keep temps and humidity and security all correct in a bin, resulting in my snakes eating on a regular basis and having whole sheds on schedule means that I will do what works and what seems to keep my snakes healthy and relaxed.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Did he look in termite mounds?

If I were a State Trooper and all the cows I've ever encountered were roaming loose on the interstate, I might conclude that all cows live on highways and roads.
.

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Literally laughing out loud at this!! :rofl:

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Did he look in termite mounds?

If I were a State Trooper and all the cows I've ever encountered were roaming loose on the interstate, I might conclude that all cows live on highways and roads.

Of course ball pythons do have to come out and get water or move to a new place or roam to find a mate, many reasons. But there's video of python hunters literally breaking open the termite mounds to retrieve the snakes inside. So a friend who heard from a guy who talked to some guys who found ball pythons in random places doesn't mean that the python hunters from the videos didn't actually find all but one of the balls in the termite mounds.

Ball pythons have always done quite well in smaller, darker bins. Many times when someone comes in with a problem feeder snake, it is a tank keeper. Some solve the issue with crowding the tank. Some move to bins.

The ability to keep temps and humidity and security all correct in a bin, resulting in my snakes eating on a regular basis and having whole sheds on schedule means that I will do what works and what seems to keep my snakes healthy and relaxed.

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I'm only guessing here but I'm thinking that guys who's living is to hunt and catch Royal pythons PROBABLY know where best to look .... just a hunch of course .

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Did he look in termite mounds?

If I were a State Trooper and all the cows I've ever encountered were roaming loose on the interstate, I might conclude that all cows live on highways and roads.

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I'm going to say that it's probably because termite mounds take a heck of work to dig out, so it's a lot easier to find them in those other places.

And given that, it means many ball pythons live in these other places as well. It's just that some keepers believe ball pythons SOLELY live in termite mounds, and can't live anywhere else, and use that as if it's a strict fact. That is all.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

I'm going to say that it's probably because termite mounds take a heck of work to dig out, so it's a lot easier to find them in those other places.

And given that, it means many ball pythons live in these other places as well. It's just that some keepers believe ball pythons SOLELY live in termite mounds, and can't live anywhere else, and use that as if it's a strict fact. That is all.

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LOL. I heard some of those things are like concrete.

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Originally Posted by jodanornodan

lol. I heard some of those things are like concrete.

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yep. Lol

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

"I have a friend "

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Enough said. How many BS stories start like this? Even if its accurate, its hearsay. If hearsay isn't admissible in court why should it be gospel here?

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Originally Posted by SiXandSeven8ths

Enough said. How many BS stories start like this? Even if its accurate, its hearsay. If hearsay isn't admissible in court why should it be gospel here?

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Huh... If you don't believe me, that's fine. I can only bring out the photos he took of the trapper's other snakes. Just seems really petty to post photos he took just to be like "See, online person? PROOF"

That was my thread, btw.

I would say something other than "friend", but it literally is my friend who worked in Ghana for 6 months. At least I named the trapper.

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Originally Posted by SiXandSeven8ths

Enough said. How many BS stories start like this? Even if its accurate, its hearsay. If hearsay isn't admissible in court why should it be gospel here?

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Because very few of us are actually herpetologists on this board. There is only one here that I know for sure is. Very few of us have traveled the world and I would say that no one on this board that I know of has hunted balls in their home territory. It is all we have. I agree to never take people's word at face value, but when it matches other observations the chances of it being factual are much higher.

I do not doubt that this account is true. I also believe it is one person's account and it is just part of the story.

Besides, this information came from Red which adds weight to its validity. She has consistently proved herself to be an experienced, rational, thinking human being and tends to be able to call bull when she sees it.

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Originally Posted by SiXandSeven8ths

Enough said. How many BS stories start like this? Even if its accurate, its hearsay. If hearsay isn't admissible in court why should it be gospel here?

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I don't think anywhere was Red's thread being presented as GOSPEL TRUTH but it was a fun share of information of what results were found in Ghana. There is no aggressive stance in it at all, nothing that argues ball pythons never lived in termite mounds, rather "hey they found ball pythons in places OTHER than termite mounds, how cool is that?"


So I'm having trouble seeing why you're taking it as such a challenge to dismiss it as nothing more than "BS" regardless of Red's knowledge, experience and connections with other people in the hobby/herp field.