Defensive Behavior in a Bigger Tub

Hey guys! So I posted on my progression thread that I upgraded jumbi to a 60qt (35x18.75x7). I've left him alone pretty much all day yesterday since he moved and all day today until I got back home from work tonight.

I checked on him tonight since his head was hanging out of his hide like normal, and I guess when I opened the tub it startled him a little.

I lifted his hide and saw something that I have never really witnessed with him before. He was in a ball. lol. He was so scared and he wouldn't let me touch him and he even hissed a little bit.

Now I know change can certainly stress them out, but it was just such odd behavior coming from him. In the year that I have had him, he has always been so lax. So I guess my question is, is it just the big change? Any thoughts on going back to the smaller 28qt? Or should I just leave him be for the next couple days to adjust? Tomorrow's feed day so I was just gonna leave him either way.

Just wanted thoughts on this and if any of you more experienced keepers have experienced this, please do share! :)

I'd still try and feed him, otherwise I'd treat him as a new arrival let him settle for a week or two.

Sent from my 5056W using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ogre

I'd still try and feed him, otherwise I'd treat him as a new arrival let him settle for a week or two.

Sent from my 5056W using Tapatalk

---

I meant that I would feed him and then leave him either way haha sorry[emoji28] but yeah, I was planning on doing that. Thanks for your feed back!

I have no observed this particular behavior in ball pythons, but I have seen something similar with kingsnakes. Typically when you put a ball python in a cage that has them feeling insecure, they will be a bit more skittish and then simply stop eating until they are moved to a smaller enclosure or the cage is cluttered up to their satisfaction. However, I once moved a young kingsnake from his tub into a large 36" x 18" exo-terra in the thoughts that he would prefer the extra space. However, the result was a lot of hissing, wall surfing within the tank, and defensive biting attempts. Once I moved him back into his tub, this behavior ceased and he was reasonably mellow again.

Any time a snake moves enclosures, there is a chance that they will be stressed by the move and show observable changes in behavior. It is possible that your snake will calm down in time. That said, I might try the following:

1. First, double check your temperatures and make sure they are not off.
2. I would "clutter up the cage with hides, fake plants, crumpled newspaper or papertowels, etc. This seems to work remarkably well with ball pythons that feel their enclosure is not secure enough. I suspect this will solve you problem.
3. See if he will take food. If he will take food, he will probably settle in shortly. If he will not take food, see step 2 and step 4.
4. If you are unable to get him to chill and eat, I would move him back into his tub. After he gains another 100g or so, try the larger enclosure again.

I am of the opinion that no realistically sized enclosure is too large for any reptile, but as the snake is growing, it make be easier simply to let him grow a little more in a smaller environment. Also, keep in mind that this might just be an isolated incident. Any animal can be startled from time to time and snakes occasionally hiss at their keepers even if they are otherwise content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Regius_049

I have no observed this particular behavior in ball pythons, but I have seen something similar with kingsnakes. Typically when you put a ball python in a cage that has them feeling insecure, they will be a bit more skittish and then simply stop eating until they are moved to a smaller enclosure or the cage is cluttered up to their satisfaction. However, I once moved a young kingsnake from his tub into a large 36" x 18" exo-terra in the thoughts that he would prefer the extra space. However, the result was a lot of hissing, wall surfing within the tank, and defensive biting attempts. Once I moved him back into his tub, this behavior ceased and he was reasonably mellow again.

Any time a snake moves enclosures, there is a chance that they will be stressed by the move and show observable changes in behavior. It is possible that your snake will calm down in time. That said, I might try the following:

1. First, double check your temperatures and make sure they are not off.
2. I would "clutter up the cage with hides, fake plants, crumpled newspaper or papertowels, etc. This seems to work remarkably well with ball pythons that feel their enclosure is not secure enough. I suspect this will solve you problem.
3. See if he will take food. If he will take food, he will probably settle in shortly. If he will not take food, see step 2 and step 4.
4. If you are unable to get him to chill and eat, I would move him back into his tub. After he gains another 100g or so, try the larger enclosure again.

I am of the opinion that no realistically sized enclosure is too large for any reptile, but as the snake is growing, it make be easier simply to let him grow a little more in a smaller environment. Also, keep in mind that this might just be an isolated incident. Any animal can be startled from time to time and snakes occasionally hiss at their keepers even if they are otherwise content.

---

He did feed for me yesterday :) thankfully his appetite did not change. He is over 1000g and he just was too cramped in he 28qt in my opinion. He is my darling noodle pet so I wanted to give him the extra space. Keep in mind that I know his behavior very well and he typically adapts to change rather quickly.

He is a very easy going bp and has never held up to the name "ball" python lol. Which is why it threw me off that he was acting so weird. He is acting normally now though! He's thermoregulating and he ate fine. I guess it was just an off night for him [emoji28]

But thank you so much for your response. I always love hearing other people's feedback!

he's probably still getting a feel for the new place, this doesn't sound too out of character. Yellow has only ever hissed at me once and it was when i was lifting his hide, so maybe it was just Jumbi's time to hiss lol. they have off days like the rest of us. probably just cranky he had to move.

i wouldn't read too much into it now, but if the attitude (hissing) persists you might need to reevaluate the husbandry.

41qt is the biggest any bp will ever need a 60 is huge and if I saw the size right at 1,000g that's a massive space and he's probably insecure. You won't typically see balls in racks that are settled they're pet rocks for a reason. I'd try dropping to 41's and he will live his days just fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BMorrison

41qt is the biggest any bp will ever need a 60 is huge and if I saw the size right at 1,000g that's a massive space and he's probably insecure. You won't typically see balls in racks that are settled they're pet rocks for a reason. I'd try dropping to 41's and he will live his days just fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

He's doing perfectly fine now! He's acting like his chill self again [emoji28] but if I do see anything wrong with his behavior, then of course I will downsize him. But for now he's behaving like he used to in the 28qt. [emoji5]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

so maybe it was just Jumbi's time to hiss lol. they have off days like the rest of us. probably just cranky he had to move.

---

Hahaha yeah, that for sure was his time. Now he's just noodling around like nothing ever happened. [emoji23]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BMorrison

41qt is the biggest any bp will ever need a 60 is huge and if I saw the size right at 1,000g that's a massive space and he's probably insecure. You won't typically see balls in racks that are settled they're pet rocks for a reason. I'd try dropping to 41's and he will live his days just fine.

---

But aren't you supposed to multiply the ball python's length with 1 for the length of the tub, with 0,75 for the height and with 0,5 for width. And that is the minimum size for the bp's tank.
If you take a ball python of the usual size (about 48 inches), then a tank the size of 35 inches is too small. Decorations can also help if the tank really is too big. So I believe he's just fine in the bigger enclosure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Caali

But aren't you supposed to multiply the ball python's length with 1 for the length of the tub, with 0,75 for the height and with 0,5 for width. And that is the minimum size for the bp's tank.
If you take a ball python of the usual size (about 48 inches), then a tank the size of 35 inches is too small. Decorations can also help if the tank really is too big. So I believe he's just fine in the bigger enclosure.

---

Nope. Most males will be fine in 28's as they stay smaller. I have a 3k+ girl in a 41 she will never need anything bigger. Typically 41s are for big females so a 60 is way overkill. Ball pythons prefer small tight spaces. They're not roamers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can have larger vivs or rubs just don't have loads of open space - add some branches and / or pieces of dried bark ( from woods -forests) and Royals will climb and explore for hours in the evening time .
If you leave just space they will feel insecure and be simply nervous / anxious and even nippy ..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BMorrison

Typically 41s are for big females so a 60 is way overkill. Ball pythons prefer small tight spaces. They're not roamers.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

I think that it all really depends on the snake. The way I see it, a 60qt has a floorspace very similar to a 40g which is what a lot of owners use for their adult bps if kept as a "display pet." But I do understand that it is a good rule of thumb that small spaces are preferred by most bps. Mine is just a weirdo that likes to roam at night lol. I am always making sure he is fine in his setup & making his health my top priority :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbzapanda

I think that it all really depends on the snake. The way I see it, a 60qt has a floorspace very similar to a 40g which is what a lot of owners use for their adult bps if kept as a "display pet." But I do understand that it is a good rule of thumb that small spaces are preferred by most bps. Mine is just a weirdo that likes to roam at night lol. I am always making sure he is fine in his setup & making his health my top priority :)

---

Out of my 9 bp's they're all the same as far as husbandry requirements. I thought I would bring these points to you before there is an issue. Things are never a problem until they are type deal. Honestly ball pythons are the worst display pets on the planet. A happy ball is almost always hiding. While the floor space is similar the height is typically drastically different which can make husbandry harder holding proper temps and humidity. I thought the same way you are now a decade ago about space requirements.

Things to think about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BMorrison

Out of my 9 bp's they're all the same as far as husbandry requirements. I thought I would bring these points to you before there is an issue. Things are never a problem until they are type deal. Honestly ball pythons are the worst display pets on the planet. A happy ball is almost always hiding. While the floor space is similar the height is typically drastically different which can make husbandry harder holding proper temps and humidity. I thought the same way you are now a decade ago about space requirements.

Things to think about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

If you had some branches in there AND they climbed and roamed in the evenings would you then assume that they were UNHAPPY as they're supposed to love hiding !?!


I'm not saying this about you but I've seen similar comments many times and quite often their snakes are kept on absorbent paper roll , in a small plastic rub , one hide and a water dish and then they say that the snake just hides away all the time and I'm thinking ... "What the hell is there for them to do anyways ? "


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zincubus

If you had some branches in there AND they climbed and roamed in the evenings would you then assume that they were UNHAPPY as they're supposed to love hiding !?!


I'm not saying this about you but I've seen similar comments many times and quite often their snakes are kept on absorbent paper roll , in a small plastic rub , one hide and a water dish and then they say that the snake just hides away all the time and I'm thinking ... "What the hell is there for them to do anyways ? "


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

---

Really it's the perfect scenario for a ball python aka pet rock. I keep racks so I don't really view them often anyhow feed, water, clean, occasionally handle etc they're a relatively easy stressed species. Hardy a bit yeah sure but they're certainly not a great reptile as far as handling and most prefer not to be. Being crepuscular if they are going to be active at all it will be between evening night dawn etc I've got healthy balls and they're kept in optimal conditions. I'm just one of those old school keepers who would suggest other herps as better display and handling pets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BMorrison

Really it's the perfect scenario for a ball python aka pet rock. I keep racks so I don't really view them often anyhow feed, water, clean, occasionally handle etc they're a relatively easy stressed species. Hardy a bit yeah sure but they're certainly not a great reptile as far as handling and most prefer not to be. Being crepuscular if they are going to be active at all it will be between evening night dawn etc I've got healthy balls and they're kept in optimal conditions. I'm just one of those old school keepers who would suggest other herps as better display and handling pets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

It's probably just a case of snakes behaving differently then , mine are out and about each evening and I have to say are my best snakes to handle as they're so friendly and docile and happy to sit in my lap or hang around my neck - when I'm doing a bit of spot cleaning and washing the water bowl or whatever . They're also THE go-to snake if we've someone visiting who wants to hold a snake or wants their child to hold a snake for the first time to give them some confidence .


I also regard them as great display animals ...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...77975be823.png

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...12d1208124.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a3f46b924b.jpg

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Also one of my unrelated pair of HC Albino Royals eating in synchronicity even though they're given the daft label as being fussy and finicky eaters :)



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...eb82df06c1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0e2d87c696.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...34d82930c1.jpg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk