Scaleless Head Question...

Does anyone have any experience with the scaleless head gene? I'm thinking of getting into it but I'm wondering if any or all of the lines have been proven to result in a totally scaleless snake? If I invest I want to be sure I end up with a scaleless super form. I also see a lot selling as scaleless heads that have more or less scales, some don't even appear to be missing more than a single scale while others are missing a large portion of the scales on the head. I assume the one with fewer scales has a better chance at producing a scaleless snake?

Here's one of the best examples that I've seen:

Edited to conform to TOS

https://www.morphmarket.com/us/c/rep...-pythons/68385

Brian of BHB tried all scaleless. Proved to not work out.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

Brian of BHB tried all scaleless. Proved to not work out.

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That's false-- there's been no evidence to suggest that there is anything wrong with the fully scaleless ball pythons. WHS actually has one of their scaleless pastel males (according to their Facebook at least) breeding and eating like a champ right now, so I'd take a look if you're worried about them being infirm, as I think that's just a urban legend spun up out of the rumors and secrecy going on in the earlier days of the project. BHB as usual is pretty quiet about the scaleless but that doesn't mean theyre being silent because of a defect.


The BHB line of scaleless and the WHS line have been proven genetic with with fully scaleless offspring being produced from scaleless head parents, though I don't know if the lines are compatible. As far as I know those are the only two proven lines. Also the amount of scales missing on the het parent shouldn't influence its ability to create scaleless offspring, it's still het scaleless, but it may affect expression (i.e. High or low) with a completely scaleless ball python being the highest expression; that's me assuming the genetics work like other scaleless snakes, like rats and corns, though.

So I know BHB produced a scaleless snake with the scaleless head, he has an episode of snakebytes showing it. It's a codominate gene, scaleless being the super form.

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BHB and Winston Smith lines have both produced scaleless.

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Originally Posted by Ogre

It's a codominate gene, scaleless being the super form.

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This. And people are starting to breed them into other morphs as well... I believe I saw on the Reptile Report that someone produced a nuclear scaleless baby this year.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

BHB and Winston Smith lines have both produced scaleless.

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Neat, was wondering seeing about this. Only saw bhb's scaleless.

I've seen a few scaleless morphs on facebook and youtube. A scaleless enchi and a scaleless spider butter possible fire.

I'm not sure how I feel about them. On one hand they have an amazing look that's all their own. Beautiful contrast. I'm sure the texture is out of this world. On the other hand, taking the scales away seems to wash out all the color. The scaleless enchi was nearly all black and white, the spider butter too. It's kind of a shame all the rich yellows and oranges are gone. I'd love to see a scaleless pied someday though, I'm sure that would be awesome.

Overall, I think it's a gene that would do better when bred with pattern mutations than color mutations. Could make some great combos, depending on what you do with it.

Here's a link: https://www.facebook.com/TheReptileR...type=3&theater

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

Brian of BHB tried all scaleless. Proved to not work out.

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some one knows nothing of what they speak...

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Originally Posted by Amos1974

some one knows nothing of what they speak...

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I watched his videos. He does scaleless corns. And scales head BP. He stopped the full scale BP. And your comment was a little rude. Btw.

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Originally Posted by Amos1974

some one knows nothing of what they speak...

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True, but in boxing this is known as hitting after the bell. The poster had been corrected weeks ago.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

I watched his videos. He does scaleless corns. And scales head BP. He stopped the full scale BP. And your comment was a little rude. Btw.

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As near as I can remember, Brian produced the first homozygous scaleless. What happened to that animal I don't know. That said I still smell something sticky with that project. Maybe I am wrong. I hope I am. A lot of people have sunk a lot of money into it.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

As near as I can remember, Brian produced the first homozygous scaleless. What happened to that animal I don't know. That said I still smell something sticky with that project. Maybe I am wrong. I hope I am. A lot of people have sunk a lot of money into it.

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this is true. From a clutch of four I believe two were full on scaleless. He was so excited. Their first shed was successful but then after that there was no updates. I think one passed away and never heard About the last one. I know he wasn't continuing the full scaleless. People have been asking him. And thank you for your posts.

I don't remember who it was but I saw a breeder on face book that had one come out half shapeless and have not straight down the center of the back. Weirdest thing I have ever seen.

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Originally Posted by KatsuragRyuketsu

I don't remember who it was but I saw a breeder on face book that had one come out half shapeless and have not straight down the center of the back. Weirdest thing I have ever seen.

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I think you mean Half Scaleless, it's the Scaleless Mojave which happened to be half scaleless and it was produced by Jessy Johnson @ Freedom Breeder

Yeah that's the one. Creepy and cool at the same time. Sorry just noticed my phone auto corrected scaleless to shapeless.