Ball python hasn't eaten since adoption

Sorry for the long post, but I want to give as many details as possible.

I've been looking for threads that are similar to my situation, and although I have found plenty of threads on the topic of not eating, all of them have had their snake eat before. I'm a first-time reptile owner. I bought a male desert spider ball python about five months ago, in late March. Since then, he has denied food. I'm unsure of his exact age, but he is an adult that was previously used for breeding so I figure he's at least a few years old. I know that denying food for such long periods of time is common in ball pythons and is normal for adults, but the fact that he hasn't eaten at all for me yet makes me wonder if there is something wrong with my husbandry. I have researched ball python husbandry heavily and I can't seem to find any problems. His previous owner told me that he was a good eater and that he had eaten a few days prior to his adoption. The part that is confusing to me is that the breeder told me he had been eating crawler mice. At the time, I was not particularly educated on the sizing and names of mice so I thought nothing of it. So, a week after we adopted him I bought a live crawler and was surprised at how small it was. I tried to give it to him and he didn't seem to pay any attention to it at all. The next time I attempted to feed him, the employees at the reptile store and I both agreed that he should be given adult mice instead. He seemed much more aware of the adult, but still did not go for it. This continued for the next few months. I have tried both live and f/t mice. Recently he seems much more interested in the prey items, live and f/t alike, but still has not actually eaten. I'm going to try a live hopper mouse next with the hope that he might be willing to eat something that isn't as big as the adults. I attempt to feed him weekly.

He lives in a 40 gallon terrarium. He has two hides. The one he spends the most of his time in is one of those black plastic box hides. It has a heating pad underneath it. Next to that is a water bowl, and on the opposite side of the tank is a half-log hide. I only see him in the log hide in the morning, and he usually moves into the plastic hide between 7am and 9am. The ambient temperature in the terrarium is usually between 78F and 81F while I keep the hot side of the tank between 85-91F. That is maintained by an overhead black light heat lamp. The humidity is kept between 55 and 65% and I raise it to 70-80% while he's in shed. I use a digital thermometer and hydrometer to record these numbers. He's kept on paper towels at four or five layers thick.

His behavior seems normal. He stays in his hide for the day and comes out at night. He will be in and out of his hides and he doesn't seem to have any problems. He does have a spider wobble that is very noticeable but I don't believe it's the cause of any problems. The first couple months of him being here were clearly stressful for him, however. He was in shed when we adopted him and within the first two weeks he got moderate thermal burns from a heat pad that we've since replaced. We took him to a vet as soon as we could so no infection occurred. Still, the fact that we had to take him out daily to put the antibiotic and the ointment on him stressed him out as well. This resulted in a very bad shed. There were pieces of shed coming off of him for weeks. The burns have since healed completely. A few weeks ago he had a pretty much complete shed, which was a great sign. He doesn't seem to be as stressed anymore. I only handle him about once per week, when I'm cleaning out his cage. I usually clean it after a failed feeding because the mouse pees and poops everywhere. Then I handle him and let him roam around the room for a few minutes, then he's put back into his cage.
If anyone has any advice, it will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. :)

The fact that he got burned tells me you didn't have a thermostat. Do you have a thermostat now or did you just get a weaker heat pad?

Also - toss the log and get a matching plastic hide to put on the cool side. The logs don't offer much security and he may choose to be in the plastic hide during the day even though he wants to cool down.


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We had a thermostat when he got burned so the heat pad was probably too strong. We have a weaker one now.

Thanks for letting me know about the log, I'll get the new identical hide as soon as possible.

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Originally Posted by g928

We had a thermostat when he got burned so the heat pad was probably too strong. We have a weaker one now.

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Where is the probe for the thermostat?
It would not e the fault of the UTH source if it is properly regulated.

Sorry, I meant we have a rheostat. With the new heater we haven't had any problems and it's on the low setting.

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Originally Posted by g928

Sorry, I meant we have a rheostat. With the new heater we haven't had any problems and it's on the low setting.

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You really should be using a thermostat instead of a rheostat. You may be able to dial in your rheostat, but if the air temperature in the room changes then the heat pad temp will change too.


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So what is the temperature of the glass the UTH is attached to UNDER the substrate?

I'm not sure of the exact temperature but I'd estimate that it's 80-90.

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Originally Posted by g928

His previous owner told me that he was a good eater and that he had eaten a few days prior to his adoption. The part that is confusing to me is that the breeder told me he had been eating crawler mice. At the time, I was not particularly educated on the sizing and names of mice so I thought nothing of it. So, a week after we adopted him I bought a live crawler and was surprised at how small it was. I tried to give it to him and he didn't seem to pay any attention to it at all.

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A crawler mouse is too small for even a hatchling ball python. This might be as simple as "rat" getting mixed up with "mouse" somewhere along the way. Have you ever offered a crawler rat?

I was thinking he may have mixed it up as well. If my snake rejects the hopper I'm going to try a crawler rat next.
On that note, do you think the store would take the hopper back? I was able to return a mouse before, but that was only because it happened to be pregnant and ended up giving birth before I could feed it to my snake. There's nothing wrong with the hopper and if my snake eats the rat crawler I'm not sure what I should do with the mouse, as I wouldn't want to keep it.

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Originally Posted by g928

I'm not sure of the exact temperature but I'd estimate that it's 80-90.

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Exact is what you want. How would you estimate such a huge gap in temperature?

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Originally Posted by g928

I'm not sure of the exact temperature but I'd estimate that it's 80-90.

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That is a HUGE gap. Do you have a temp gun?

My thermometer doesn't have a probe that can be placed under the substrate. Is there a different method that could be used?
Edit: I don't have a temp gun either.

You really need to know your temps. How can you say you've read up on husbandry and can't find any issues with yours? Yet you don't know your temps within a 10 degree estimate?
Your temps are a vital part of your husbandry

Buy a temp gun..... Lowes, Walmart, Home Depot, Amazon.. They are not hard to find.
Husbandry needs to be on point and not guessed. Its not like a dog or cat that can run away, its kind of stuck in your care.

I keep track of the temperature of everything else. I should have taken more care to pay attention to the temperature under the substrate. Is there anything I can do right now to get an exact reading without a probe or temp gun?
Edit: I'll look for one as well, thank you.

I'm going to order an identical hide as well as a temp gun-- thank you everyone for your advice so far.
Is there anything else wrong that you see with the husbandry?

I would suggest you look over the stickies on this forum about setting up enclosures.
Pretend you're starting at step one and read through the basics again, and follow what you read.

Change those things that need changed, get an exact temp in all the various places, especially on the surface of the glass over the heat pad and also how are you checking the humidity? I know you said digital, but I just wondered which type?

Once all of that is switched around, I would definitely try a rat crawler. Are you feeding him in the cage without disturbing him? I.E. placing the prey in and leaving him alone for a while? A crawler should be harmless to him so leaving it in for him to smell and find it should not be dangerous(live adult mice can be a danger though).

The temperature and hydrometer are recorded on the same device. There's no probes or wiring or anything like that, it's battery powered.
I feed him in his cage, but I have had to keep a good eye on it because I know live feeding can go wrong very easily. After I get the new hide and get all the surface temps, I'll let him settle into the new setup for a few days and then I'll try the rat crawler and I'll completely leave him alone.

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Originally Posted by g928

The temperature and hydrometer are recorded on the same device. There's no probes or wiring or anything like that, it's battery powered.
I feed him in his cage, but I have had to keep a good eye on it because I know live feeding can go wrong very easily. After I get the new hide and get all the surface temps, I'll let him settle into the new setup for a few days and then I'll try the rat crawler and I'll completely leave him alone.

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Generally speaking I'm sure you'll be fine ...

That temp/ humidity gauge sounds dodgy to be honest though ... if it's one if those stick on ones which are basically not suitable for this purpose .

These are 3 dollars off eBay and will suffice !

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017...71e802e4b5.jpg




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Quote:

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Originally Posted by g928

My thermometer doesn't have a probe that can be placed under the substrate. Is there a different method that could be used?
Edit: I don't have a temp gun either.

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These are about 12 dollars off eBay ..

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017...f0c11c3439.jpg

This is what I use to measure the temperature and humidity: https://www.amazon.com/ThermoPro-Hyg...ords=thermopro

I ordered a temp gun already, it will get here in a few days.

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Originally Posted by g928

This is what I use to measure the temperature and humidity: https://www.amazon.com/ThermoPro-Hyg...ords=thermopro

I ordered a temp gun already, it will get here in a few days.

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I've seen so many reports of those things giving really unreliable humidity readings plus the temp readings whilst fairly accurate are only 'ambient ' temps .... so they're the temperature of the air around the device .
These are no use for telling what the ACTUAL temps of the floor at the warm side are or the ones directly over the heat mat or directly under the heat lamp . You need one with a wired probe


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I was going to use the temp gun I ordered for getting the floor temps and other surface temperatures. What is an ideal temperature for the heat mat surface?

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Originally Posted by g928

What is an ideal temperature for the heat mat surface?

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Around 93 degrees under the substrate.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Generally speaking I'm sure you'll be fine ...

That temp/ humidity gauge sounds dodgy to be honest though ... if it's one if those stick on ones which are basically not suitable for this purpose .

These are 3 dollars off eBay and will suffice !

[IMG]http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170705/60fecdceb833e877ea207071e802e4b5.jpg[/IMG

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Do you have a link or the specifics on the make/model?

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Do you have a link or the specifics on the make/model?

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Well ....I have two very similar looking ones ( like the photo) bought about 4 years apart from different sellers on eBay - different manufacturer as well .
They give pretty much exact same readings as well !

I posted a photo of both readings a while back ...

The temp gun came in today, and the temperature of the heat pad underneath the substrate looks good. On Saturday I'm going to try a rat crawler.

The terrarium could be too big, I have had royals that don't like too much space, once in a small enclosure they have eaten fine, 40 gallons will probably be big if he was a breeder male, my adult males are in a 24 litre or 5-6 gallon rub, it may take a week but don't give him any attention, hope this is any help


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Definitely try a Rat. I have snakes that will only eat rats and snakes that will only eat mice. I also had a snake that would only eat white mice, not black. They can be very particular.

I bought the rat crawler, and just now he struck at it. He dragged it into his hide and I'm not going to disturb him for a long time but it looks like our problem is solved.

Thank you everyone for the advice. Even though the problem here was that I was offering him mice, not rats, I'm still very thankful for all the input. It will help me prevent future problems.:)

I'm guessing your snake didn't eat because he was burned. I got a snake in the mail that arrived really beat up. He completely healed after a couple months and still didn't take his first meal for 6 months.

Most of my snakes prefer mice over rats, but if you can get them on rats it's much better because you can use bigger ones as they grow. The prey item should be between 5% and 10% of the weight of the snake, never much over 10%. I weigh all my snakes occasionally and put their weight above their tubs so I can weight the rat or mouse and figure out which snake should have it based on weights. Although some big snakes will only take adult mice.

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

I'm guessing your snake didn't eat because he was burned. I got a snake in the mail that arrived really beat up. He completely healed after a couple months and still didn't take his first meal for 6 months.

Most of my snakes prefer mice over rats, but if you can get them on rats it's much better because you can use bigger ones as they grow. The prey item should be between 5% and 10% of the weight of the snake, never much over 10%. I weigh all my snakes occasionally and put their weight above their tubs so I can weight the rat or mouse and figure out which snake should have it based on weights. Although some big snakes will only take adult mice.

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That's likely too. I'm unsure if he would have taken mice if the circumstances were different but I'm more comfortable feeding him a crawler rat that can't hurt him either way.
The next thing I want to do is get him on frozen. I'm planning on feeding him live a few more times to get him on track and then I'll try a frozen rat.