Do I intervene orthe wait some more

I have a killerbee yellowbelly that is going on 20 weeks off feed. His weight before his fast had gotten to 569 grams. He is now sitting at 495 grams. I know husbandry is going to be the first thing mentioned. He is in the exact same set up as my other 3 balls and he is the only one not eating. I have plexi tanks, 83-84 ambient 89-90 for the hot hide. coconut husk bedding, everything on thermostat and monitored by thermometers. My question is is it time to "assist" feed or do I continue to wait? What is considered too much weight for them to lose? Also his last couple meals were rats. I have since tried rats and mice and all live, pre-killed and F/T. Every now and then he will strike at one but never coils. Don't know if this is BP stubbornness, his spider wobble causing a problem or something else that I can't see. His behavior otherwise seems normal. He roams the cage at night, switches between his hot and cool hides and is drinking as evidenced by the fact I still find urates in his enclosure. His last shed also went with no problems. Recommendations????

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Try african rat

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Originally Posted by VIP CONSTRICTORS

Try african rat

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No where to get those around me. Also if rather not run the risk of him imprinting on something I can't readily get. I breed my own rats so that's what id like to stick with

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You do not assist feed an animal that knows how to eat and that is healthy.

The first thing you do you make husbandry changes (always do that before offering alternative preys), because an animal is in the same setup than other identical animal does not mean that that setup works for that specific animal.

Downsize as much as you can V18 tub (or similar foot print) or 12 quarts tub or similar foot print, provide aspen or coco coir chips as bedding, wait a week and offer food. I would also recommend to lower the temps and not go higher then 86/88 on the warm side and 78 - 80 on the cool side.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

You do not assist feed an animal that knows how to eat and that is healthy.

The first thing you do you make husbandry changes (always do that before offering alternative preys), because an animal is in the same setup than other identical animal does not mean that that setup works for that specific animal.

Downsize as much as you can V18 tub (or similar foot print) or 12 quarts tub or similar foot print, provide aspen or coco coir chips as bedding, wait a week and offer food. I would also recommend to lower the temps and not go higher then 86/88 on the warm side and 78 - 80 on the cool side.

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This is a new one on me and one I have never tried. Why the lower temps?

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

This is a new one on me and one I have never tried. Why the lower temps?

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. Hey J, I have heard of the lower temps before in younger balls who are picky feeders and those that are off feed. Some juveniles and sub adults who are having feeding issues respond better in a few degree decrease sometimes. Definitely true with hatchlings who are being picky feeders too. I would also consider a trial run with 100% cypress mulch as a alternative as well.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

. Hey J, I have heard of the lower temps before in younger balls who are picky feeders and those that are off feed. Some juveniles and sub adults who are having feeding issues respond better in a few degree decrease sometimes. Definitely true with hatchlings who are being picky feeders too.

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This is really interesting to me at least. I have always assumed the opposite. The key word being assumed. Generally, the animals in my collection that go off food go off as it gets cooler and then go back on as it gets warmer. I wonder what is different about the hatchlings that triggers a feeding response at slightly lower temps.

Well I keep the whole room heated so I don't know that I want to drop the temps for all of them. I could lower his hot spot I suppose and see if that does anything.

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Probably has to do somewhat with the immature thermoregulatory systems in the younger animals as opposed to the adults. Like the humidity percentages seem to work in the opposite fashion as it relates to ages and extremes.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

This is a new one on me and one I have never tried. Why the lower temps?

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Because the temps are a bit high on both side especially for a spider, Spiders seem to do better with slightly lower temperature. And with a cool end of 84 it would actually be better not to have a hot spot all together than have both.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Because the temps are a bit high on both side especially for a spider, Spiders seem to do better with slightly lower temperature. And with a cool end of 84 it would actually be better not to have a hot spot all together than have both.

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Perhaps I will try that then, I can pull his heat pad and see what changes. He does move between hides tho so wouldn't that seem to indicate that he is still thermo-regulating? If it was too hot wouldn't he just stay on the cool side?

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DISCLAIMER: The people who have been responding have more experience than I do, much more. But I was wondering, with an ambient room temp and ambient enclosure temps of 83-84, do you really need the hot spots? I've heard of people using only ambient room temps in their snake rooms, and I believe 83-84 is in that "ideal" range.

I could be mistaken, I'm only going on things I've read and not personal experience, so I guess I'm asking as well as making a potential suggestion.

Thanks...

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

DISCLAIMER: The people who have been responding have more experience than I do, much more. But I was wondering, with an ambient room temp and ambient enclosure temps of 83-84, do you really need the hot spots? I've heard of people using only ambient room temps in their snake rooms, and I believe 83-84 is in that "ideal" range.

I could be mistaken, I'm only going on things I've read and not personal experience, so I guess I'm asking as well as making a potential suggestion.

Thanks...

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I am on 84 to 88 ambient only and it works for me so in theory you are correct. If the OP boosts to 84 the hot spot is no longer needed. I was just really curious about the the drop temp suggestion since it goes counter to how I have always thought. I suspect there is possible truth in what Albert said. Immature thermo regulation. And maybe some truth in the same vein with spider as Deborah suggested where their thermoregulation is possibly quirky. Something for me to think about since I will have quite a few spiders hatching next month.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I am on 84 to 88 ambient only and it works for me so in theory you are correct. If the OP boosts to 84 the hot spot is no longer needed. I was just really curious about the the drop temp suggestion since it goes counter to how I have always thought. I suspect there is possible truth in what Albert said. Immature thermo regulation. And maybe some truth in the same vein with spider as Deborah suggested where their thermoregulation is possibly quirky. Something for me to think about since I will have quite a few spiders hatching next month.

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Ok, I thought I was on the right track but was thinking 83-84 might be about as low as the ambient room temps should be. And I also believed that you were one of the people I knew of and respected that uses ambient temps in a temp controlled room. Thanks!

...and yeah, Albert and Deborah are two of the members on this forum I have learned a lot from and have a huge amount of respect for. I always pay extra attention when they post.

I had a male banana fire spider fast from early last august until last week, live African soft fur got him to feed and he just took a FT small rat this evening. Tried lower temps, higher temps, bin size, substrate, changing humidity, everything I could think of and more, ASF did the trick.

We have a male who doesn't eat from late September until late February every single year. Its just this one. The first time I thought he was dying haha he was one of our first BPs. But for the rest of the year he eats like a boss...weekly....without fail. We also have had some of the young snakes not eat unless the room was dark. But we don't feed live.

We have an ambient temp of about 84...the room is dedicated to just critters. But we use belly heat in the tubs meaning the half with heat is technically the hot spot. Correct me if I'm wrong but is it suggested you don't need that if the ambient is high enough? What about digestion without under tank warmth? TIA!

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Originally Posted by monks98

We have a male who doesn't eat from late September until late February every single year. Its just this one. The first time I thought he was dying haha he was one of our first BPs. But for the rest of the year he eats like a boss...weekly....without fail. We also have had some of the young snakes not eat unless the room was dark. But we don't feed live.

We have an ambient temp of about 84...the room is dedicated to just critters. But we use belly heat in the tubs meaning the half with heat is technically the hot spot. Correct me if I'm wrong but is it suggested you don't need that if the ambient is high enough? What about digestion without under tank warmth? TIA!

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I run ambient only in my snake room and it runs between 84-88. I have a separate rack in another room that I use for quarantine that has a normal heat tape setup. The only thing that has heat tape in it in my snake room is my incubator. I have experienced zero difference as it pertains to the animals doing it one way or the other. It is just easier for me to run ambient only for the majority of my collection. A lot less failure points to check.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I run ambient only in my snake room and it runs between 84-88. I have a separate rack in another room that I use for quarantine that has a normal heat tape setup. The only thing that has heat tape in it in my snake room is my incubator. I have experienced zero difference as it pertains to the animals doing it one way or the other. It is just easier for me to run ambient only for the majority of my collection. A lot less failure points to check.

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When you say 84-88 does that mean you adjust based on time of year or you just have that much fluctuation in the temp?

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Originally Posted by OTorresUSMC

When you say 84-88 does that mean you adjust based on time of year or you just have that much fluctuation in the temp?

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I kind of get a fake summer/ winter thing going. I live in florida so ambient does not require that much effort. Heat maintains to 84 which I don't even have plugged in right now. AC keeps it below 89. So, I run a little warmer in the summer than I do the winter.