First BP for son

We got our son his first snake for his 14th birthday. We got a super friendly mojave from petsmart. Not my first choice of where to get it from but he had been there several months, he is very docile and we got a great deal on him and a full setup during the zoo med sale Saturday. Unfortunately, we listened to the girl at petsmart that said everything we needed was in the kit and I started buying other things we needed before I found the forum. So, the biggest issue its too much heat from the uth. I made the mistake of getting a rheostat instead of a thermostat. Before we realized how hot it was getting, the uth had the bottom glass at 125. We kept adjusting the setting down a far as it will go and it's still about 110. Is there something wrong with the uth, or will a true thermostat correct the issue? Obviously, the therm probe won't be between the glass and uth. What's the best way to attach it to the outside, cover the probe with aluminum tape completely? And Before you ask, we have temporarily unplugged the heater completely and are using heat lamps for now.

Thanks for your help in advance, already learning a lot.
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Originally Posted by slseals1969

Is there something wrong with the uth, or will a true thermostat correct the issue? Obviously, the therm probe won't be between the glass and uth. What's the best way to attach it to the outside, cover the probe with aluminum tape completely? And Before you ask, we have temporarily unplugged the heater completely and are using heat lamps for now.

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a good thermostat with proper probe placement will correct the heat issue; i would get a cheap thermostat to use for a year or so until you can save up for your forever thermostat. the thermostat probe DOES go between the glass and the UTH, and you use a probed thermoMETER or IR temp gun to measure the temp of the floor within the enclosure. do NOT tape over the probe, you can tape over the insulated wire but not the probe itself.

please read over the stickied thread on How To Set Up a Glass Enclosure if you haven't already.

lastly, welcome!!! beautiful lil mojave. :)
:welcome:

My personal preference is 100% direct contact of the UTH against the bottom of the cage. As such, I hot glued my Herpstat probe directly to the bottom of the UTH and it works like a charm. Use a temperature gun to measure the cage's floor surface temp and adjust the thermostat accordingly. My thermostat is set ~5F higher to achieve a 90-92 hotspot on the floor...

Don't tape the probe as mentioned above, Herpstat actually advises against foil tape, use hot glue or even duct tape to secure the wire if needed. Electrical tape will not hold...

Nice BP btw!

A reliable thermostat will correct the issue, but it needs to be installed properly which means secured on the UTH itself.

If you are currently using a dimmer it does not adjust the temps and has ambient temp rise so does the temps from the UTH.

Dimmer are a temporary solution and need to be re-asjusted daily if the room is not stable.

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Please don't take this the wrong way, just curious. My uth doesn't have the channel for the thermostat probe, so if I had put it between the tank and uth it would basically be taped down. How is that different from tapping it to the outside?

Thanks again for your replies. I did read the tank setup sticky, unfortunately it was after I set up my tank😀

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Originally Posted by slseals1969

Please don't take this the wrong way, just curious. My uth doesn't have the channel for the thermostat probe, so if I had put it between the tank and uth it would basically be taped down. How is that different from tapping it to the outside?

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because the heat gets trapped and builds up between the UTH and the glass, then dissipates upwards. taping the wire (either to the glass or the UTH) and placing the probe between the UTH and bottom of the enclosure provides a stable placement of the probe with as few variables as possible that could cause an inaccurate reading. taping it to the bottom is not going to read the heat that's moving up through the bottom of the enclosure, but rather the UTH itself and the surrounding air. the most accurate reading will be between the UTH and the bottom of the enclosure.

TBH it might not be a huge difference in accuracy, but i try to be as accurate as possible.

Ok, got everything dialed in. Thermostat keeping temp in the right spot. Got an auto mister to keep humidity where it needs to be. He wouldn't eat first couple weeks. Waited until night to try this time and he finally took the mouse. Problem is he's been working on swallowing it for at least 20 minutes now. It's just a fuzzy so it should be no problem for him. Definitely much smaller than gods thickest part. Haven't weighed boom but according to Persmart they had him since last August so at least a year old. They said they were feeding him multiple fuzzies so that's what I went with but he's still only got it about halfway into his mouth.

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Looking at him he should be on hoppers or adult mice. They feed them to maintain not for growth. I'm sure once his feeding is completely established it will be quicker. He might have caught it at an odd angle too.

Are we talking fuzzy mice?
If so, they are waaay too small for your snake. So are hoppers. BPs eat hoppers as hatchlings, only for their first few (3-5)meals and quickly move to adult mice. As you can see on the chart below, even hoppers are fed only for the first few weeks of a BPs life.
If you're talking rats then you're probably ok, but not knowing his weight it's tough to say.
Please don't listen to the pet store employees. It's very rare to find one who has a clue.

I hope this chart helps....https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ecc71ea322.jpg

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Please don't listen to the pet store employees. It's very rare to find one who has a clue.


Ooof, that hurt! Lol

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

Please don't listen to the pet store employees. It's very rare to find one who has a clue.


Ooof, that hurt! Lol

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we know of one who does 😀

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

Please don't listen to the pet store employees. It's very rare to find one who has a clue.


Ooof, that hurt! Lol

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There's exceptions to every rule :D

Ok, I'm moving up to larger mice. I didn't want to go too far since he was struggling with a fuzzy and gave up twice when he couldn't get it right. Went to Petsmart on the way home this evening. I was going to just go to hopper but next size they had from fuzzy was medium mouse so I decided to give it a shot. He had a little trouble with it but finally choked it down and then slurped up a fuzzy right behind that.

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Originally Posted by slseals1969

Ok, I'm moving up to larger mice. I didn't want to go too far since he was struggling with a fuzzy and gave up twice when he couldn't get it right. Went to Petsmart on the way home this evening. I was going to just go to hopper but next size they had from fuzzy was medium mouse so I decided to give it a shot. He had a little trouble with it but finally choked it down and then slurped up a fuzzy right behind that.

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awesome to hear 😀

Here's a couple pictures of him munching.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e0bd517944.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c5dffaa1cd.jpg

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Very pretty snake! Your son looks so happy looking at it too :)

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Originally Posted by slseals1969

Ok, I'm moving up to larger mice. I didn't want to go too far since he was struggling with a fuzzy and gave up twice when he couldn't get it right. Went to Petsmart on the way home this evening. I was going to just go to hopper but next size they had from fuzzy was medium mouse so I decided to give it a shot. He had a little trouble with it but finally choked it down and then slurped up a fuzzy right behind that.

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yeah!!! Great to see!

Fuzzies AND HOPPERS are way too small. Stick to the appropriate sized prey. I think you're underestimating what size prey snakes can handle. That being said, there obviously is too big. I honestly don't think you can get a much better reference than the feeding chart I posted earlier.

...and if you were concerned the adult mouse was too big, why would you feed an additional fuzzy? I'm just confused. You went in hoping for hoppers (too small) came out with a med mouse (depending on weights, possibly the right size) that you thought would be too big, so you fed more???

I don't think you over fed, I'm just curious what your logic was??

I know he needs more food. All indication from Persmart is the largest thing they have fed him is fuzzies. He's only been eating for us a few weeks now. He's had no problems with the scrawny PetSmart fuzzies I bought but he had struggled with the slightly larger fuzzies I got elsewhere, to the point of getting frustrated after 30 minutes and completely giving up. Given this information, I didn't want to jump from the smallest size to the absolute largest size in the first jump. I figured I would try something larger, feed more often and multiples as I gradually moved him up in size. Thank you for all the information but this is my first rodeo and I'm trying to do what I think is best for the snake. Sorry I didn't do it the same way you would have.

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Originally Posted by slseals1969

I know he needs more food. All indication from Persmart is the largest thing they have fed him is fuzzies. He's only been eating for us a few weeks now. He's had no problems with the scrawny PetSmart fuzzies I bought but he had struggled with the slightly larger fuzzies I got elsewhere, to the point of getting frustrated after 30 minutes and completely giving up. Given this information, I didn't want to jump from the smallest size to the absolute largest size in the first jump. I figured I would try something larger, feed more often and multiples as I gradually moved him up in size. Thank you for all the information but this is my first rodeo and I'm trying to do what I think is best for the snake. Sorry I didn't do it the same way you would have.

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No apologies necessary. I was just asking. We know you're new and we're trying to help you and your snake.
You've done nothing wrong, just a bit different from what has worked for many, many, experienced keepers who have years of experience with thousands upon thousands of BPs.
That being said, there are many ways to achieve the same results, and as long as you're learning and doing what's best for you and the animal we're happy to help.
Keep studying and learning and you'll be fine.
Sorry if my comment came off negatively, that wasn't my intent.

I am trying to learn as much I can and there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum. Thanks for everyone's support and comments. Now the question is, as we move up in size, should we try to switch to rats, or just stay with mice?

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In the long run it will be better to be on rats, if for no other reason than you will always be able to feed a single prey item. An adult ball can eat a lot of mice in one sitting.

I hear ya. There is a lot to learn, but you're in a great place and doing well.

The biggest pro I see in switching to rats is feeding just one rat per feeding, where mice, even jumbos, will require more than one per feeding, up to as many as 5 with female BPs.

So you're looking at much easier feedings as well as spending less money by switching to rats.

My girl is 11 mo. 259g and on rat pups. It looks like a struggle but she gets them down. How much does your boy weigh. He looks like a healthy young man.

Unfortunately that's the one thing I have not done is weigh him, I've been more concerned about getting him to eat and getting temps and humidity dialed in. I need to get him on the scale after I've given him a chance to digest a bit.

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Looks and sounds like you're doing pretty well. I got my first BP (first snake, as well) almost two years ago. A female Mojave. :) I was concerned with over/under feeding. It's kind of an rough suggestion (that many argue) that snakes should eat a prey item that is 10-15% of their body weight. Since I worry about everything, I bought a kitchen scale that goes up to 5000g and started weighing my snake and the mice, then rats that I was feeding her. It did make me feel a lot better about it.

The first six months, I fed her about every 5 or 6 days. If she ever didn't eat, I'd try again at 10 days. At 6 months or so, I went to every 7 days. That worked fine for about 6 months.


Now, it's different. She may eat every 7 days for a few feedings, and most recently, she didn't eat for about 3 months. I offered, she just didn't want to eat. Just don't be too worried if you ever have a week where he doesn't want to eat. It likely won't happen at a young age because they grow so fast and need that protein. With a scale, if they don't eat, you can track their weight, and if it's not really dropping, it's usually nothing to be overly concerned about.

Also, if you haven't read or been told, they don't really poop very much. You may not see him poop until he sheds... or maybe not for a month at a time. If so, don't be alarmed. When they are young, they absorb most of their prey and don't really have a lot of waste. you'll know when they do though... lol

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

I
Also, if you haven't read or been told, they don't really poop very much. You may not see him poop until he sheds... or maybe not for a month at a time. If so, don't be alarmed. When they are young, they absorb most of their prey and don't really have a lot of waste. you'll know when they do though... lol

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ya, you will know. Boople goes about every three weeks and it's about as big as a rat pup lol. I'm like jeez girl you lost some weight with that one lol!

So, we picked up some rats at Repticon on Saturday. We have successfully fed him three of the medium mice every four days. I picked up both rat pups and weanlings. I was going to fed him the last mouse from the snack pack I got at PetSmart but since I had the rats out anyway I decided to thaw one of the pups and go for it. He didn't even hesitate to wrap the sucker up but then he dropped it and gave the whole thing a very thorough once over flicking it from head to tail. Then he kind of backed up and just looked at it for a few seconds. I really thought he wasn't going to take it. Then he grabbed it again. He started on the back of the neck and fumbled around a bit then he pulled it further back in his hide where we couldn't see him very well. A few seconds later he scooted back close to the opening and we could see he had it all sorted out and he sucked it right down quicker than any of the mice so far. Guess we'll move the feedings out to five days and see if he's interested. We did finally take the chance to weigh him. Hee was 12 oz, which I believe concerts to 340g. A large pup should be about right for him until he picks up a little more weight but now that we are closer to the right size food it shouldn't take long. Very happy that he took the switch to rats so easily.

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Nice! :)

Awesome!!!!