Ibd?

We just picked up another moonglow boa, about 3 weeks ago, at the MidAtlantic Reptile shie. We're told he's about 1yr old. We have a super moonglow who is also 1yr. The breeder said they're from the same clutch. Either that, or just born the same time. Well, she's about 4ft & he's about 1ft & as thick as my thumb. The breeder said he's that small from being on the road & not fed as often. Fair enough.
Our concern is he's showing signs of IBD. He ate the 1st day (about 3 weeks ago) & has shown no interest since. He's gone into shed but what's come off was in pieces. We've had to soak him & start to remove the rest. The most alarming part is he's tolting his head backwards & twisting it around (like Stevie Wonder). I've also noted some "star gazing" signs but wasn't totally sure if it's just bc he's out of his enclosure & curious. Last night, he was very lethargic during handling. We're getting him to the vets asap but I wanted to ask on here. Until last night, I had no udea about this disease. I have a video clip but need to get it uploaded.

You need to rule out overheating and pesticides before you go the IBD route. Please let us know what the vet has to say.

A lot of snakes will stargaze or show symptoms that mimic IBD when they are badly sick, and there are a lot of other problems (as noted above, pesticides or overheating), or even other diseases besides IBD. I wouldn't ever throw those three letters around without a positive test from the lab at the University of Florida.

Hopefully the new arrival has been properly quarantined well away from your other snakes. If it dies I would have it necropsied.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

A lot of snakes will stargaze or show symptoms that mimic IBD when they are badly sick, and there are a lot of other problems (as noted above, pesticides or overheating), or even other diseases besides IBD. I wouldn't ever throw those three letters around without a positive test from the lab at the University of Florida.

Hopefully the new arrival has been properly quarantined well away from your other snakes. If it dies I would have it necropsied.

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Thanks for the input guys. We check his temp regularly w/the temp gun, as well as being on a digital thermostat. We bumped up the humidity bc we knew he was in shed. I wouldn't know where any pesticides would come from. We only clean w/diluted Chlorhexidine. He's on a coconut husk substrate. We were thinking of putting him on Reptibark.
You know how it is looking stuff up online. Lol everything is the worst case scenario. I think my husband got an appointment for tonight.

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Originally Posted by awyatt10

Thanks for the input guys. We check his temp regularly w/the temp gun, as well as being on a digital thermostat. We bumped up the humidity bc we knew he was in shed. I wouldn't know where any pesticides would come from. We only clean w/diluted Chlorhexidine. He's on a coconut husk substrate. We were thinking of putting him on Reptibark.
You know how it is looking stuff up online. Lol everything is the worst case scenario. I think my husband got an appointment for tonight.

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Well, my husband came home & he was dead. 😢 We're checking w/our vet about a necropsy. Sucks! Thanks again for the input.

Sorry to hear. Definitely get the necropsy done if you can.

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Originally Posted by awyatt10

Well, my husband came home & he was dead. [emoji22] We're checking w/our vet about a necropsy. Sucks! Thanks again for the input.

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Thats awful. Please keep us posted. Id like to know what it is and what the breeder has to say as I'm sure you'll contact him.


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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

Thats awful. Please keep us posted. Id like to know what it is and what the breeder has to say as I'm sure you'll contact him.


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Oh we definitely plan to contact him. We did everything by the books, & how we have with our other 2 snakes. Totally dumbfounded on this one. I want to make sure the breeder doesn't have any issues on his end either. I'm really bummed bc I hate to think this snake suffered any bc of something we may have overlooked. It just seemed so sudden. It had only been 3 weeks having him. Blah!!!

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Originally Posted by awyatt10

Oh we definitely plan to contact him. We did everything by the books, & how we have with our other 2 snakes. Totally dumbfounded on this one. I want to make sure the breeder doesn't have any issues on his end either. I'm really bummed bc I hate to think this snake suffered any bc of something we may have overlooked. It just seemed so sudden. It had only been 3 weeks having him. Blah!!!

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Ive been looking at 3 Moonglows and a snow so its funny that the morph. I decided against buying one because im told they "yellow" with age, but they sure are cool looking.


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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

Ive been looking at 3 Moonglows and a snow so its funny that the morph. I decided against buying one because im told they "yellow" with age, but they sure are cool looking.


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We've had no issues with the super moonglow. She was snow white when we got her. She's a year old and is now, I think, creamier w/a yellow hue. She's an amazing snake. Great disposition & a phenomenal eater. She eats way better than our ball does.

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Originally Posted by awyatt10

We've had no issues with the super moonglow. She was snow white when we got her. She's a year old and is now, I think, creamier w/a yellow hue. She's an amazing snake. Great disposition & a phenomenal eater. She eats way better than our ball does.

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Ive never heard of a Super.. Bob Clark and MCR has the ones i was looking at. I cant imagine the price of a super as a regular one is more than I think they should be now that they are more common.
I hope your other one is ok and that its a isolated incident.


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You can google them. They're beautiful. Aaaand pricey. We paid close to $1000 for her.

We're definitely keeping a close eye on the other 2. The worst thing we've ever experienced, other than this, was when my blue tongue skink came home with mites. I NEVER want to go through that mess again.

So we contacted the breeder, just to update him. He was very appreciative we did that & that we weren't yelling at him. (I can't believe people are rude enough to to that.) Anyway, he said he loved dealing w/us, each time we've purchased a snake from him, that he'd be willing to send us another snake. We explained that's not why we were calling, but he insisted on checking his inventory. He also said, in his experience, he's had a few snakes have similar occurrences. Just a random incident where they're doing well, don't eat at the next feeding & are dead in a week. What a crappy situation.

Very sorry to hear of this. It sounds like the breeder is working with you though. That makes things a little easier to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

Ive never heard of a Super.. Bob Clark and MCR has the ones i was looking at. I cant imagine the price of a super as a regular one is more than I think they should be now that they are more common.
I hope your other one is ok and that its a isolated incident.


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Sorry to hear your snake died. I would definitely be giving the breeder a piece of my mind. Also with how fast he died, I would have a necropsy done especially if you have other snakes. Not saying it's IBD as that is kind of rare but with how fast the snake died, i would be worried.

Super moonglow is just a super hypo basically since you only need 1 hypo, albino, anery to make a moonglow. Add another hypo gene and you have super although you wont know until later. It's not like a hypo looks really any different than a super hypo.

Also if i had my choice, i would definitely go with Matt Cook. That little Moonglow possible super hypo girl he was selling was on my radar but i had picked up Gina already and i dont have a cage available atm. If i did, i might have snatched her up but you are right that anything kahl will yellow with age. Some more than others. I mean here is a perfect example. Vicky as a baby in the first pic and her just over 3 years later.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...d8b144cc_h.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...24fcdd76_h.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Sorry to hear your snake died. I would definitely be giving the breeder a piece of my mind. Also with how fast he died, I would have a necropsy done especially if you have other snakes. Not saying it's IBD as that is kind of rare but with how fast the snake died, i would be worried.

Super moonglow is just a super hypo basically since you only need 1 hypo, albino, anery to make a moonglow. Add another hypo gene and you have super although you wont know until later. It's not like a hypo looks really any different than a super hypo.

Also if i had my choice, i would definitely go with Matt Cook. That little Moonglow possible super hypo girl he was selling was on my radar but i had picked up Gina already and i dont have a cage available atm. If i did, i might have snatched her up but you are right that anything kahl will yellow with age. Some more than others. I mean here is a perfect example. Vicky as a baby in the first pic and her just over 3 years later.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...d8b144cc_h.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...24fcdd76_h.jpg

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WOW thats a good pic example Sauzo!!! Matt sent me pics and was really honest about it and said the same thing you did. That yellow is still gorgeous but its good to know they do/can change.


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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

WOW thats a good pic example Sauzo!!! Matt sent me pics and was really honest about it and said the same thing you did. That yellow is still gorgeous but its good to know they do/can change.


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Yup, I've given Matt crap about dealing with only kahls as what i am mostly searching for is a sharp snowglow female if i go with another morph. Dont find too many sharps though as a lot of people just deal with kahls. And me personally, I'm on my locality BCC kick now and really want either a Peruvian, North Brazilian or a male Suri from Chris Wolf to go with Gina one day if i ever decide to breed.

Oh and if you ever decide to go with a BCC and want pure blood locality stuff, hit up Chris Wolf. Pretty much all his stock is from Gus Rentfro and Vin Russo as Vin and him are buddies and he believe in keeping all his stuff pure blood even the locality stuff like not mixing another unknown suri into his Rentfro Pokigron stuff etc.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Yup, I've given Matt crap about dealing with only kahls as what i am mostly searching for is a sharp snowglow female if i go with another morph. Dont find too many sharps though as a lot of people just deal with kahls. And me personally, I'm on my locality BCC kick now and really want either a Peruvian, North Brazilian or a male Suri from Chris Wolf to go with Gina one day if i ever decide to breed.

Oh and if you ever decide to go with a BCC and want pure blood locality stuff, hit up Chris Wolf. Pretty much all his stock is from Gus Rentfro and Vin Russo as Vin and him are buddies and he believe in keeping all his stuff pure blood even the locality stuff like not mixing another unknown suri into his Rentfro Pokigron stuff etc.

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Yup i'll check him out.. And Vin is sending me a White Diamond the end of next month. They should hatch beginning of July.


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What!!?? You bought a white diamond boa aka Princess white boa???!! Dude, adopt me!! I need a sugar daddy like you lol :D

And I didn't know Vin was breeding them. I thought only Jeremy Stone was making those things.

OP - I'm sorry to hear the boa died. if you take the boa in for necropsy, make sure to put the body in the fridge and NOT the freezer. Freezing will degrade the tissue and it will not be useful for pathology testing. Depending on your vet and the lab they use, be prepared for the cost. Sometimes the reason is hard to pin down, even with a full necropsy and testing. It most likely was not IBD but I understand wanting to get the tests done to rule it out. The two I had done were in the $400+ range (for full IBD tissue pathology testing).

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

And I didn't know Vin was breeding them. I thought only Jeremy Stone was making those things.

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Alex at BoaRepublic is also working with those, I'm sure there are others. I, personally, wouldn't touch those with a 10 foot pole. Weren't all the offspring supposed to be surrendered back to the Brazilian government and that's why they changed the name to 'fire'? yeah. no thanks.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

What!!?? You bought a white diamond boa aka Princess white boa???!! Dude, adopt me!! I need a sugar daddy like you lol :D

And I didn't know Vin was breeding them. I thought only Jeremy Stone was making those things.

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Noooo lol Vins White Diamond BEL not a Boa. I already had a female reserved. The Moonglow i was considering as another large constrictor but i think I'm sticking with pythons after some of the reading/research I've been doing. Going on 30 years having them as pets and its hard to teach a old dog new tricks lol.
I absolutely love a BCI head shape i gotta say.


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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

OP - I'm sorry to hear the boa died. if you take the boa in for necropsy, make sure to put the body in the fridge and NOT the freezer. Freezing will degrade the tissue and it will not be useful for pathology testing. Depending on your vet and the lab they use, be prepared for the cost. Sometimes the reason is hard to pin down, even with a full necropsy and testing. It most likely was not IBD but I understand wanting to get the tests done to rule it out. The two I had done were in the $400+ range (for full IBD tissue pathology testing).



Alex at BoaRepublic is also working with those, I'm sure there are others. I, personally, wouldn't touch those with a 10 foot pole. Weren't all the offspring supposed to be surrendered back to the Brazilian government and that's why they changed the name to 'fire'? yeah. no thanks.

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I'm not sure the whole story behind Jeremy Stone and the white diamond boas. While i dont condone what he did, he was far from the first. Heck, Sampson Pruitt has a colorful history and so does Tom Crutchfield. And honestly without Tom Crutchfield, a lot of the stuff we got today would not have been so.

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

Noooo lol Vins White Diamond BEL not a Boa. I already had a female reserved. The Moonglow i was considering as another large constrictor but i think I'm sticking with pythons after some of the reading/research I've been doing. Going on 30 years having them as pets and its hard to teach a old dog new tricks lol.
I absolutely love a BCI head shape i gotta say.


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Oh lol. I was like dang, you are filthy rich lol.

Bah, my vote definitely goes to a moonglow over a BEL pet rock haha.

I got my required pied BP and thats it. But then again, I'm pretty much a boa junkie although retics are a close second.

Heck go for a SD retic. I love Caesar. He is a total character and would definitely be one of my must keep if i had to cut down my collection. Him, Rosey and Gina are my most personable and social snakes. I couldnt imagine ever having to get rid of them.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Oh lol. I was like dang, you are filthy rich lol.

Bah, my vote definitely goes to a moonglow over a BEL pet rock haha.

I got my required pied BP and thats it. But then again, I'm pretty much a boa junkie although retics are a close second.

Heck go for a SD retic. I love Caesar. He is a total character and would definitely be one of my must keep if i had to cut down my collection. Him, Rosey and Gina are my most personable and social snakes. I couldnt imagine ever having to get rid of them.

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Well the balls are really something I figured my girls could get familiar with. I have my Burm to interact with and that's what I think I'll be getting another one of if not a Retic