Our first S.F.E.

Mike was feeding Baby the 6 month old b.p. last night and the oddest (but rather funny) thing happened.

Baby hit the mouse as usual, very fast and aggressive. I don't know if she missed a bit or Mike let go too fast with the hemostats but the mice sort of flipped in the air and Baby jumped and the dang mouse ended up partly underneath Baby.

Now here's the funny bit LOL. Mike decided he was going to "help" Baby by tugging the mouse out with the hemostats. Well Baby has now instructed my dear husband about the "don't touch MY mouse" rule! Faster than the blink of an eye she made two strikes towards the hemostats and one at Mike's hand. None of them connected and I believe she was just warning him off as I'm sure she could have bite him if she was serious about it.

The truely hilarious part was when our 14 year old son and our 12 year old daughter both chimed in at the EXACT moment that Mike decided to "help" Baby....."don't do that....you are going to make an S.F.E.!!!!!" Being a good lil wife, I of course tried to NOT laugh....much!

Anyway, Mike is fine, Baby is fine and promptly snarfed down her mouse after making her point. We checked her visually and will recheck her again tomorrow to make sure she didn't actually connect with the hemostats.

It's a good lesson tho for our family. Even though Baby is a lovely snake that very easy to handle, she isn't domesticated and we overstepped a boundary. I'm actually glad she did it and the kids were there so we'll all remember to respect our snakes and not get complacent with them.


~~Jo~~

I almost made the same mistake last week with my big girl. I told you about the bite and coil that she gave me when I first got her. She weighs 1500 grams, but it looks like she should be 2500. I figured she was just very hungry and my thumb must have looked very mouselike.

Anyway, last week I was feeding her two small rats and when I placed the first one in there, she struck at it but it dropped down in front of her. She didn't see it, so I thought I would just pick it up with my tongs and give it back to her. The only problem was that she was eyeing my hand again (maybe she remembed that it tastes better than a rat). Fortunately I didn't get close enough for her to strike this time and instead gave her the second rat. When she hit that one, I grabbed the first one and eventually gave it to her later.

I'm glad to hear your husband didn't get hit, and hopefully he'll be a bit more cautious next time. And if any S.F.E lessons are to be made, it's better to get it over with when your snake is still small. :D

Ha....I get struck at a few times during every other feeding especially my female.Once the scent of mouse gets in the air....anything warm and moving will get nailed. That is why she is no longer in the tub that is 'face height' :D

You know Daniel sometimes I swear these snakes are getting almost trained that the hemostats mean food. Is that possible? There's been a couple of times where I have the hemostats in hand but Mike is off p/king the mouse in another room and Baby especially will almost "key up" at the sight of the shiney hemostats.

Can a snake do this or am I just imagining a response?

Like I said I'm glad this happened. With such nice natured snakes it's awfully easy to get a bit "lazy" and forget for a moment they aren't puppy dog friendly, though certainly not an indication she's "mean" or it was anything more than an S.F.E. on our part.


~~Jo~~

I don't know about the hemostats, but I do realize that they can tell when Monday (feeding day) comes around. Usually they will be in their enclosures for the majority of the day....but on monday....everyones head is peaking out of their enclosure...just waiting for some food all day :D

Daniel I swear Baby has only one thought in her head any day of the week...."got mice? how about now? hey buddy, can you spare a mouse?"



~~Joanna~~

my spotted python eat f/t and we have a bowl on top of her tank thats just for thawing and when we mo the bowl she knows its time to eat

yeah, feeding time can be fun! i have a few that will come out of their tubs and go get the rats if i let them! lol. i certainly wouldn't want to feed them in a seperate tub!!!


vaughn

What size hemostats do you guys use? Mine are 12'' in length, is that a good length?

Our hemostats are smaller than that. We have to special order the 12" ones or order online. For now while our snakes are small these will do but not apparently for much longer LOL.

Vaughn, there's no way in heck I would feed Baby outside her tank and then handle her. Even after her 2nd mouse she's very hyper alert for awhile in case a third mouse might wander by. No way would I be touching her then LOL. (Hmmm Baby's idea of heaven...a self-serve mouse buffet!)


~~Jo~~

I use 10" bamboo tongs, since hemostats aren't really available around here. They seem to work fine (both of mine are yearlings) and I feel better about the snakes striking bamboo on accident, as opposed to metal.

Both of mine will only strike if the mouse is within about 4 inches or less, so I'm not worried about them heading for my hand. :)

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

I swear these snakes are getting almost trained that the hemostats mean food. Is that possible?

Can a snake do this or am I just imagining a response?
~~Jo~~

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They can learn simple associations :)

Oh, I have done that! Only it was when I thought that my adult male, Goblin, was not interested in his rat after cnostricting it and then ignoring it for an hour. Iwent to grab the rat with my bare hand (DUH lol) and he struck and coiled around me! I of course, being the level headed individual that I am, shrieked like a little girl and jerked my hand ack, and somehow he must have tasted my yucky hand and not wanted it, cuz he released right away. But it did bleed a bit!

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Originally Posted by kavmon

yeah, feeding time can be fun! i have a few that will come out of their tubs and go get the rats if i let them! lol. i certainly wouldn't want to feed them in a seperate tub!!!


vaughn

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one of my girls in particular is like that. she is the sweetest thing and has never bitten me but she KNOWS when it is time to eat. i have to have the rat in tongs ready to go when i crack her tub open because she comes lunging out immediately on feeding day. she strikes and coils, half in and half out of her tub usually hanging upside down with it until i (using tongs) lift and coax her back inside of her tub far enough that i can close it. the second i walk into the room with even the slightest hint of rat she is ready to go but any other day she is just as sweet and calm as can be. :)

Hades pouts after he strikes and misses. Then he'll stare the rat down for quite sometime as my arm is dying. Sometimes he pouts so much I have to close the box up and let him have some alone time with the rat until he eats it. Kozma does this a lot too...plays with his food...then hisses when you try to take it away. Never been bit during feeding time though. It'll happen soon enough :)

about that remebering the hemostat thingy back there i dont know if this applies to BPs but many animals (including humans) respond to whats called conditioning which is different than memory. they dont have specific memories of the shiny stick thingy bearing the offering but they start to associate certain causes "causing"certain events again maybe doesnt apply to BPs

I do have my snakes trained to a conditioned response. As some of you already know I base my feeds on bowel movements. Since I don't like the idea of being bit I have ques I use to let my snakes know when it is feeding time. First thing is to get their attention if they are in their hides but I have to go through the routine even if they are out. I will tap the backside of the enclosure firmly, I don't hit it, don't want to scare them. Then I will move to front side and gently scracth the front left bottom of the enclosure. Then it is a matter of the snakes comming out of the enclosure or checking out the scracth if already outside. Once they check they know I will be offering food shortly there after (it works like a charm for me and I get a great feeding response). I have two of my snakes conditioned to this response but I have yet to try it on the Boa.

Forrest

Hmm... conditioning is very common in primates and domesticated animals (dogs, cats etc). But, since snakes have a much lower brain function, I'm not sure if conditioning is possible. I'd check some of my Zoology texts, but all the books are old and outdated, so effectively useless. Good topic for a research paper :).

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Originally Posted by iceman25

They can learn simple associations :)

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I certainly think so. Before I moved Issa to his new cage, I would put newspaper down over cocanut coir (to avoid a missed strike and a mouthful of coir, which happened once). After a while, I'd put the newspaper down and Issa would go straight into hunt mode. (this is before I show up with a rodent, which can be a while, espeically if I haven't started thawing yet).