Bad Frozen rats

Hi.
I got about ten frozen rats few days ago. My snake eats on sundays so he should eat now. I thawed those two rats now to give him but they look terrible so im worried.
Please look at the pictures and suggest should I toss it away? Tommorow I will be delivered frozen feeders from a well known supplier so I guess I can skip feeding now, feed tomorrow and again on sunday? He is waiting for food, out of the enclosure stearing at me whole day, poor snakey, but Im scared to give him this.

This rats came in a plastic bag with holes, I asked the guy are they freshly frozen but I kinda dont believe him. He gave them to me for free so I didn't want to be ungratefull with asking questions. .

Rats have some kind of terrible growings on their ears, feet and tail, like its frostbites, all boney, sooo badly killed and packed.. im scared for my snakes health so thinking of throwing it all away.
What do you think?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d6150fb715.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6e9cdcadab.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...621e4d92a7.jpg

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It looks absolutely gross... Toss it away plz

I would toss all of them....

Ya I tossed it away. wondering has anyone seen this before

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Gross. Poor Rats...wonder what those living conditions were like before killed. I would have tossed them too. YUCK!

It looks to me like the owner/killer used dry ice to kill the rats.

Those white spots look like dry ice burns. This means the rats were allowed to crawl on the dry ice while they were being gased. Also the process was done too fast and the rats did not gently fall asleep. You can tell this by the horrid expressions on a few of them.

.. thinking it was cause of the bad plastic bag and maybe they were wet or thawed and frozen again but badly killed by hand definitely. Ones jaws are crushed. Cant ever buy live rat cause it would end up like a pet..

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This is one of the reasons why i feed my snakes live prey

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Originally Posted by Dutti

This is one of the reasons why i feed my snakes live prey

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Why? So you're not given some rats that appear to have been killed incorrectly and poorly packaged?

I've used a few sources for my frozen feeders and since they were reputable places I have had no complaints or quality issues.

Whenever someone says live is this or that it makes me picture myself trying to feed my big Blood her XXL rat and each time I come to the same conclusion, which is that would be a terrible experience for all three of us, that being me, my snake, and the opossum sized rat.

The BRB I own was bought from a family whose kid lost interest. He is a great snake and super inquisitive but the previous owner feed live (because that's all he'll eat) and the rat chewed a hole in the snake(silver dollar size). Luckily they had a good vet but the snake still carries the scar. Now while you're going to say "but they weren't watching close enough," and I agree. How long does it take for a large rat to do damage before you can stop it? I'm not willing to risk that.

I'll just keep buying from reputable businesses.

As the saying goes "you get what you paid for"

Personnaly I would toss them.

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That's terrible. I'm not sure why people don't properly fresh kill.


The entire setup cost less than 20.00.

I purchased this glass jar with a metal lid from Walmart for 4.92(Kitchen).
https://www.walmart.com/ip/DNP-2QT-C...-Teal/51755721

I purchased a 2 pack of valve stems from the auto department for 2.03.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Slime-Val...1-1-4/45791096

I then bought a CO2 tire inflator from the bike section for 11.38.
It comes with a 16g but it fits a 12g flush. The 16g is better for tires but hard to source.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Slime-CO2...lator/49455294


Steps are simple.
1. Drill a hole slightly smaller than the valve stem "collar" in the lid and through whatever sealing material. Mine was waxy coated paper.
2. Insert the valve stem through hole.

The CO2 inflator has a trigger so you can slowly put them to sleep and then let them pass and feed fresh killed HUMANELY. I understand that if you have 200 snakes this could be expensive but if do it properly, it shouldn't be that much.

So I only euthanize 2-3 at a time because of feed schedule. So 1 12g cartridge with do 2-3 sessions, possibly more or less if you use different sized chambers . A 25ct of CO2 is 13 dollars. So about 50 cents a cartridge or .25 cents a session. You can put quite a few per session because you are removing oxygen so it doesn't affect the outcome.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Copperhea...5-Pack/3139301

I could not fresh kill. That of course is just me. Same reason I cannot have a farm. I get attached to all my animals lol. It is a weakness. Kudos to those who can. I can totally see the benefits of it.

Thanks Eliot.. Nice post.
I suggested that to the guy but no use.
My nice rodents have arrived so hopefully I forget those poor rats...


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The white spots could be freezer burn versus CO2 burns. The look on their faces is just gnarly though.

I think you did the right thing tossing those rodents Pit. I guess there are pros and cons to buying locally. I don't have a trusted local supplier so I have to purchase my feeders online. I use Perfect Prey and Big Cheese and I've never had any issues with the quality of their feeders. Sometimes it's worth paying a little more for that extra peace of mind.


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ps10t2s7cd.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

Why? So you're not given some rats that appear to have been killed incorrectly and poorly packaged?

I've used a few sources for my frozen feeders and since they were reputable places I have had no complaints or quality issues.

Whenever someone says live is this or that it makes me picture myself trying to feed my big Blood her XXL rat and each time I come to the same conclusion, which is that would be a terrible experience for all three of us, that being me, my snake, and the Opossum sized rat.

The BRB I own was bought from a family whose kid lost interest. He is a great snake and super inquisitive but the previous owner feed live (because that's all he'll eat) and the rat chewed a hole in the snake(silver dollar size). Luckily they had a good vet but the snake still carries the scar. Now while you're going to say "but they weren't watching close enough," and I agree. How long does it take for a large rat to do damage before you can stop it? I'm not willing to risk that.

I'll just keep buying from reputable businesses.

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Surely they were not watching as the rat bit the BRB. For a rat to be able to bite the snake, one of the following must happen:

1- The snake don,t want to eat and the owner is not watching and left the rat with the snake(did not take it out). So its owner fault.
2- The rat is much bigger than the snake, the size of the prey is wrong. Also owner fault.
3- Putting the rat suddenly with the snake. The owner should let the snake smell the rat first to let it get into a hunting mode.
Other than that i don,t see a chance for a rat to bite a hungry snake.

You don,t beginn feeding the snake live prey with a XXL rat. You beginn when the snake is young and increase the size of the prey gradually as the snake grows. If you feel comfortable feeding frozen, then its the right thing to do. The main thing is that the snake is healthy, growing and eating.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dutti

Surely they were not watching as the rat bit the BRB. For a rat to be able to bite the snake, one of the following must happen:

1- The snake don,t want to eat and the owner is not watching and left the rat with the snake(did not take it out). So its owner fault.
2- The rat is much bigger than the snake, the size of the prey is wrong. Also owner fault.
3- Putting the rat suddenly with the snake. The owner should let the snake smell the rat first to let it get into a hunting mode.
Other than that i don,t see a chance for a rat to bite a hungry snake.

You don,t beginn feeding the snake live prey with a XXL rat. You beginn when the snake is young and increase the size of the prey gradually as the snake grows. If you feel comfortable feeding frozen, then its the right thing to do. The main thing is that the snake is healthy, growing and eating.

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I disagree.

A rat most certainly can harm a snake even being the proper size, owner watching, or getting a snake in "hunting mode." If the snake doesn't get a great coil the rat can will bite and chew until it goes out. This can be all it needs to harm the snake.

I've fed live. I've had bites on my snakes. I've had to thump their head to make them stop. It made me feel terrible. At the end of the day dead rats are safest and most humane option for both the snake and rat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

I disagree.

A rat most certainly can harm a snake even being the proper size, owner watching, or getting a snake in "hunting mode." If the snake doesn't get a great coil the rat can will bite and chew until it goes out. This can be all it needs to harm the snake.

I've fed live. I've had bites on my snakes. I've had to thump their head to make them stop. It made me feel terrible. At the end of the day dead rats are safest and most humane option for both the snake and rat.

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Big snakes don,t have to coil to kill the rat. My 8 months Dumerils Boa don,t coil anymore to kill the large mice that he is eating. His bite is enough to kill it. Once my yearling BCI has his mouth on the rats face, it,s finished. The rat has no face anymore.

"most" breeders even do F/T mice/rats just for the factor mentioned above and only feed live if it is a last resort. why is this being debated? lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dutti

Big snakes don,t have to coil to kill the rat. My 8 months Dumerils Boa don,t coil anymore to kill the large mice that he is eating. His bite is enough to kill it. Once my yearling BCI has his mouth on the rats face, it,s finished. The rat has no face anymore.

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Large mice?

Get back to me when you're dealing with rats.

Mice put up much less fight and have less fight to give.

Any snake eating large mice is not big. IMHO.

The largest I ever had to feed live were medium rats when I first got my BRB. Those guys really had something to live for. Though my BRB is long(6+) and takes medium rats his head is not big and wide and his bite doesn't kill on contact. You can't judge all other snakes and feeders by your limited experience with large mice. My big Blood could kill a large mouse by laying on it.

One day your snake will be taking medium rats and we'll see how you feed then. Until then you can only speculate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

Large mice?

Get back to me when you're dealing with rats.

Mice put up much less fight and have less fight to give.

Any snake eating large mice is not big. IMHO.

The largest I ever had to feed live were medium rats when I first got my BRB. Those guys really had something to live for. Though my BRB is long(6+) and takes medium rats his head is not big and wide and his bite doesn't kill on contact. You can't judge all other snakes and feeders by your limited experience with large mice. My big Blood could kill a large mouse by laying on it.

One day your snake will be taking medium rats and we'll see how you feed then. Until then you can only speculate.

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I gave you 2 examples. My 8 months Dumerlis Boa who eats large mice and my yearling BCI who eats medium rats. It seems you saw only one! As i told you, once my BCI has his mouth on the rats face, its finished. The rat has no face anymore. My BCI is 4 feet long. If that rat want to put up a fight, i will say "bring it on". My BCI eats live rats since he is 3 months old.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dutti

I gave you 2 examples. My 8 months Dumerlis Boa who eats large mice and my yearling BCI who eats medium rats. It seems you saw only one! As i told you, once my BCI has his mouth on the rats face, its finished. The rat has no face anymore. My BCI is 4 feet long. If that rat want to put up a fight, i will say "bring it on". My BCI eats live rats since he is 3 months old.

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So your BCI is batting a thousand but one day it will miss the face. When it does you may get the opportunity to learn just what I'm talking about and gain more experience to draw from.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

So your BCI is batting a thousand but one day it will miss the face. When it does you may get the opportunity to learn just what I'm talking about and gain more experience to draw from.

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Even if he missed the face. The power of his muscle is devastating. The rat can,t bite under such huge pressure. And if it does, it will be a weak and harmless bite under such pressure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dutti

Even if he missed the face. The power of his muscle is devastating. The rat can,t bite under such huge pressure. And if it does, it will be a weak and harmless bite under such pressure.

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Devastating?

Like you've experienced it and know how the feeder feels. Lol!

I'll just again add that I've seen live feeders bite and hurt snakes. It can happen no matter what you think.

Harmless? Not always.

But,

You're right. I'm wrong.

And,

Im done.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

I think you did the right thing tossing those rodents Pit. I guess there are pros and cons to buying locally. I don't have a trusted local supplier so I have to purchase my feeders online. I use Perfect Prey and Big Cheese and I've never had any issues with the quality of their feeders. Sometimes it's worth paying a little more for that extra peace of mind.


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ps10t2s7cd.jpg

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Nicely packed :) looks professional, thats how you'll sell and people will buy again

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

Devastating?

Like you've experienced it and know how the feeder feels. Lol!

I'll just again add that I've seen live feeders bite and hurt snakes. It can happen no matter what you think.

Harmless? Not always.

But,

You're right. I'm wrong.

And,

Im done.

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I have read several articals that BCI,s are one of the most powerful constrictors in the world. They have more crushing power than a burmese python which is twice their size. Many boa keepers raise them like if they were corn snakes. Here is an opinion of someone who is more experienced than me:
http://www.deanos-exotics.com/common...imperator.html

Get back on topic with the original post.

Quite a debate you two :)

I personally wouldn't feed my snakes live pray, only if last resort. Accident can happen and I don't want any scars on my snakes as their safety is my responsibility and I would feel soooo bad if any got hurt.
A Snake can be a strong bad ass biter as much as it wants, but, the bigger feeder the more danger. People do what they want, they all have their opinions and ways..
I chose mine to be as human if possible and for no risk for my snakes, if it eats thawed rodents- lucky me. If it eats live - like some snakes at my workplace, im having my eyeballs on the feeder ready to react if necessary as my boss wants me to feed live so I do so.
With both feeding experience and never had an accident, my beloved snake at home eats thawed cause im just paranoid for all of my animals :)


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The moral of the story is to buy quality food, euthanize humanely and OMG is correct. My 6+ foot BCI got bit for a quick second cause even though he was a beast I slid a herpstat in the gap and stopped the bite.... monitor your feeds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

I think you did the right thing tossing those rodents Pit. I guess there are pros and cons to buying locally. I don't have a trusted local supplier so I have to purchase my feeders online. I use Perfect Prey and Big Cheese and I've never had any issues with the quality of their feeders. Sometimes it's worth paying a little more for that extra peace of mind.

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Going forward, I will only purchase from Big Cheese and Perfect Prey. I wasn't overly thrilled with Rodent Pro when I bought rat pups and hopper mice but repackaged them into better freezer bags. I decided to give them another chance because I know you can't exactly package the smaller feeders in a neat and orderly fashion and I could pick up the feeders at the show and save on shipping. It was a large order and more than $120 at the show than what I priced out online when making a list of what all we needed. Their website said save by ordering ahead and picking up at the show. I figured the savings would be on the cost of shipping. They drastically inflate their prices at the show but don't tell anyone that and it's not listed on their website.

I kept my cool but there were 5-6 other people wanting to get feeders and I told them we're paying more because we're at the show and wouldn't it be nice if we were told that prices were inflated at the show? The guy I was working with started apologizing and said he'll give me the online price this time and come back over 'here' to get the order. I gave them my list again and they started putting everything together. They gave me XS pinkies when the list said PEACH fuzzies then they gave me 3 bags of peach fuzzies when I only asked for one, tried to charge me for 3 and said my list said 3. I should have walked away right then and there but I was running low because everyone started hitting growth spurts. My own fault. Their packaging of the rat crawlers and large adult mice was less than stellar and a few rats had feces stuck to their fur or appear to be shoved in the bag prior to being frozen because they were essentially in a ball.


Sorry, to go off on a rant. Maybe I'll throw up a review of my experience of them in the business section.