Update on "Beginner just got a Burm."

As luck would have it, I caught the pet shop owner today when she was taking care of the animals (they're closed on Sundays). I explained what happened and she immediately agreed to work with me. She did feel that the clerk thought I knew more than I did (How, I'll never know. If someone asks if you have a book on snakes as well as what type of housing they need, they are CLEARLY new to snakes) and that he's not the type to intentionally lie to someone. I'm still bothered by the fact that he recommended the Burm to us as a first snake. When I see him again, I'll say something good naturedly but pointedly about NEVER recommending a Burm as a first snake, no matter how docile he is as a 5 month-old. The owner said she'd swap snakes, give me a store credit, order a Corn - whatever I want her to do. Told her I'd bring him back tomorrow morninng (wasn't planning on catching her this afternoon so didn't have him with me).

They have a year-old male California King. Didn't mind being handled but definitely an escape artist. They realized that he was out when they went to show him to me. Luckily, the escapee was caught while still in the reptile room. What can you guys tell me about these guys? My understanding is that the males will go 3-5 feet. This one looked to be about 2 1/2 to 3 feet. Gorgeous markings - black with yellow. She also has a couple of baby Balls.

Thanks for all of your help. I've learned more in 24 hours than I have in the last 6 months. :eyepoppin Time to go research the Kings.

Melissa

well it depends what you are more interested in pythons or colubrids. i am a ppython guy all the way(i also like boas lol) but if you are a colubrid guy i would still go with a baby king/corn anyway just cuz it's a lil more fulfilling (IMO).

here's a care sheet for kings
http://ball-pythons.net/modules.php?...warticle&id=14

here's one for balls
http://ball-pythons.net/modules.php?...warticle&id=52

and here's one for burms just in case ya wanted some more info
http://ball-pythons.net/modules.php?...warticle&id=16

have a nice one ;)

Brian

Quote:

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Originally Posted by normballpython2

well it depends what you are more interested in pythons or colubrids.

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At this point in life, I just want an easy-going, easy-care snake that won't get big enough to require it's own room. :confused: I enjoy snakes and find them very interesting. I also think the right snakes make great pets. However, I have no intention of turning this interest in snakes into a multi-thousand dollar life-altering extreme hobby. I view our relationship with a snake just as I do with the 2 dogs, the guinea pig and the fish we already have. We love them dearly, give them the best care that we possibly can provide, treat them as valued members of the family and will keep them with us until they go on to pet Valhalla. However, just as I have no intention of having 5-6 Shih Tzu's to go along with the one we currently have, I have no intention of owning half a dozen herps of varying degrees of difficulty. I grew up in the country with a father who was terrified of snakes and was taught to fear them. However, a wonderful biology prof who was also a herptologist helped me see the light. I want my children to respect snakes but not to fear them. I feel that the best way to accomplish this is by allowing them to have one as a pet and teach them the difference between venomous and non-venomous snakes.

Please tell me this is the right attitude to go into snake ownership with.
Melissa

Here's a few links from breeders and such. Some have prices associated with different colors/patterns of kingsnakes or caresheets.

http://swreptile.com/kingprice.html

http://www.greatbasinreptiles.com/html/calkings.html (some really nice pics!)

http://www.vmsherp.com/CarePages/CareCalKing.htm

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/CareCalKing.html


~~Jo~~

I would go with the Kingsnake, they are very forgiving if care needs get a little outa wack for some reason. They are also much better eaters. The Down side to a king is they are probley the world best escape artists above any other snake I have owned. They are a more slender snake than a Bp and do tame down pretty well though some can be hissy when in there enclosure.

Personally I think that's an excellent attitude Melissa and I would think that with proper information you're family will do very well with an appropriate snake.

I've found our 2 ball pythons to be excellent additions to our busy household. They have taught my own children respect for a creature often feared by others, to be patient, calm and respectful of these unique animals that are so unlike a dog, cat, pet rat, etc. Also with their eating habits the children are seeing the predator/prey interaction (tho we feed pre-killed the snake still strikes and coils as it would a live prey item). The lessons of patience especially are interesting. To watch them learn that they cannot hold the snake whenever they feel like it (especially during the "no touch" first week or so) and 48 hours after it eats. Also since they are nocturnal, the kids learned to go with the snake's cycle as far as daily handling.

They will even remind me if I have one of the snakes out and haven't immediately noticed it looking antsy....very funny when my 12 year old says..."mom the snake's had enough" LOL.

Our snakes are a part of our household, just like the other pets (fish & pet rats *not food*).


~~Joanna~~

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Originally Posted by melissafred

...However, I have no intention of turning this interest in snakes into a multi-thousand dollar life-altering extreme hobby... However, just as I have no intention of having 5-6 Shih Tzu's to go along with the one we currently have, I have no intention of owning half a dozen herps of varying degrees of difficulty...

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that's what i thought too just over a year ago when i got my first ball python (which was also my first herp other than the anoles). :D oh how quickly things change! your attitude is great and i think the addition of a snake will be a fun and rewarding one for your household. :)

:banana:

Thanks Joanna and mledee. :)

Regarding the no-handling rule. The Cali King that we're interested in has been at the shop for a while and has been handled a lot, which I'm guessing is why he didn't show any signs of unpleasantness with me today. Assuming I get him tomorrow, he'll be alone for a good 5 hours until the 12 y/o gets home and will be by himself every day for at least 8 hours per day. Do you guys think it will be a problem if DS and I hold him a little bit each night for the first 3-4 nights, as long as we watch for signs of stress?

Also, we're going to keep the cage we bought for the Burm (roughly 3'x2'x4' and all screen mesh). From what I'm reading, this guy will appreciate the length of the cage. I'm going to get him a hide as well as a tree limb to stretch out on. Do you think the cage will be ok or should we try to enclose it at least partially with Plexiglass?

Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou.
You guys on this board have been tremendously helpful and a sanity saver.:worship:
Melissa

I'm sorry Melissa I'm not at all familar with all mesh cages or if they are appropriate for king snakes other than you obviously know they are lil escape artists. Hopefully someone else here can help you with that issue.

As far as handling I know it's tough to hear...leave the snake be for a week...and you really should do what you think best but all the best advice we got here was to set up the cage, pop in the snake and other than fresh water and checking for waste, leave it completely be for the first week.

Think of it this way, the snake had to adjust to that pet store, now he'll have to adjust to your home. If you give him time to adjust in his own snakey way then offer him a nice juicy mouse (btw what has he been eating? frozen/thawed, pre-killed or live? what size mouse?) you're really upping your chance for a successful first feeding.

Once you get him feeding well, then gentle daily handling is a great thing in my mind for both snake and human. Just remember to give him 24-48 hours after a feed with no handling.

I know it drove our family nutsy that first week but oh has it paid off with our snakes. They both took their first feeds perfectly and haven't missed a step since and are lovely to handle. Again tho this is only how we do it, not the only way to do it.

Oh btw have you gotten something yet to hold the mouse when you offer it to the snake?

Found this for you when I did a general search on what to look for when purchasing a king snake. Hope it's of some help....

Things to look for in a healthy snake:

• firm rounded body
• clear eyes (may be a little cloudy if about to shed), no discharge from eyes
• no signs of mites (check especially around head/eyes, look for dusty specks on body, check hands after handling snake)
• no open mouth breathing or gasping for breath
• inside of mouth uniformly pink (reddened areas or cheesy looking matter may indicate mouth rot)
• shiny smooth skin with no scabs or sores
• clean vent with no swelling in area
• should move smoothly with no tremors

A new snake may not be all that tame, but should settle down fairly well with gentle handling. A snake that is distressed will wave its body in the air trying to escape. Most king and milk snakes will settle down after a bit and wrap itself gently around your hands."


~~Joanna~~

The enclosure is it a Reptarium? If so I would not advise keeping a snake in that since they are zipper shut a motivated snake could work his way out were the zipper closes.
Snakes are solitary animals and need little to know human interaction. The tolerate us more than they like us, some tolerate us better than others. I would leave him alone untouched for the first week or so to settle in, I know this will be hard for a 12 y/o but its best for the snake.

Thanks. Solitary Confinement it is for the first week.


As to the type of cage, I have no idea - no label on it. However, I'll definitely ask about it tomorrow (Shucks, I can't tell you the brand name of our guinea pig cage, puppy crate or aquarium either! :P ) I just looked at it pretty thoroughly. The spline holding the mesh in looks snug. The door to the cage opens outward and is held in place by 2 plastic things (similar to what is on the back of some picture frames) that you turn up & out of the way to open the door. I'm thinking about adding a lock of some sort just to add a 3rd level of protection. Knowing I have a thing about getting bigger & better, I'll go to all of the recommended cage websites and probably wind up with something from one of them within a few months, if not sooner.

Joanna, thanks for the info. I've been checking out all of the care sheets I can find on Corns, Kings and Balls. I have no intention of getting in over my head again.

You have a great attitude about owning a snake Melissa! I am glad you got it sorted out as far as the burm too. I am sure that a snake in your household will be very rewarding for all of you.

We had a california kingsnake not too long ago, my daughter bought him for herself, and I ended up caring for him, however, colubrids are no longer in my interests. I had lots of king snakes over the years though, and they were all great and easy to care for. However, I would not use the type of caging you are describing, I would go out and get a big rubber maid, they are easy to clean, cheap and easy to secure and light weight. The king we had before I gave him to my Dad (Dad just fell in love with him), eats well and is never a problem. In fact, he still lives in his rubber maid and I am pretty sure he will not outgrow it as it is HUGE. Plus it is easier to keep your heat right in rubber maids than the type of caging you have described. I hope you keep us all updated on your adventures, and we sure would love to see pics of your new arrival. Have a great day!

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...&N=2006+113495



Here's a picture of the cage that we have. It's on the Dr.'s Fosters and Smith website. Is plexiglass safe for use with snakes? My thought was to put it around the outside of the cage. I'll have to think about how to secure it (too tired to do so right now) but I know it can be done. I'm used to doing small projects on our RV so this shouldn't be hard as long as I know what materials are safe to use with snakes.

Thanks!

Melissa

Yep, plexiglass is fine, although it scratches easily(clean with caution-no abrasive cleaners). You can drill through it and secure it to the enclosure with zip cable ties. I would put plexi on all of the sides, even the top and the bottom part of the front. This will help hold in heat as well as a little humidity. You can keep the door uncovered for air flow.

I prefer rubbermaid/sterilite/iris tubs just for the fact that they hold heat/humidity better and the snakes feel more secure in them. The ones I have had for Amani, my ball, have all been see-through and secure(locking lids). The most expensive tub would probably be the one she is in currently. It cost $14 from Target. If this screen cage ends up not working out, just know that there is another option to go to.

Another thing is that if the snake poops in the screen enclosure, it will be a pain to scrub each time(and colubrids go and go and go everytime you turn around, hehe). With a tub, you just pick up the feces/urates, spray with a little nolvasan disinfectant, and wipe clean. I spot clean while Amani is in the enclosure, and deep clean with Amani in a pillowcase on my mom's lap :) Deep cleaning is a breeze as well. Put the tub in the bathtub, get some Dawn/Palmolive/etc, wash the tub and dry. If you put plexiglass on the F.A.Habitat, that is alot of nooks and crannies to get clean and just seems like a waste of valuable time, especially if you have children running around.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from using the enclosure you already have, I'm just trying to save you some time and "pain in the butt" moments :)

If you want pictures of rubbermaid/sterilite enclosures, let us know. Most look quite nice, and since you may get a Kingsnake, they are very good at keeping the snakes INSIDE where they should be, LoL.

Thanks for the info Becky. Will have to see if there's anyway I can solidly affix the plexiglass to the inside of the bottom for now. I'm not real wild about the current cage but we paid $75 for the darn thing. Payday is in the next couple of days. May just say to heck with it, pimp the current cage on Ebay and get a glass aquarium. I like the way they look. Will probably wind up putting a bungee cord around it lengthwise plus stacking a couple of books on top.


Melissa

Melissa, thanks for posting the site that has the enclosure I plan on ordering one of those for my Water Dragon it should work out awsome for him how sturdy is it?

I'd get rid of the mesh,and get a rubbermaid container.I got a 32 qt. and it should last my Ball Python for at least another 6 months-year.In your case it should last a lifetime.I would leave him alone for a week except for changing water.And beleive me,I know how hard it is to resist holding a new herp on the first day. :) Good Luck!You could always sell the mesh cage on Reptimart. It's just like Ebay,but it is for herp enthusiasts, and some water dragon owners might be looking for some.

Funny thing is with that enclosure the web site shows it with bearded dragons, talk about a wasted space and semi unsafe enclosure for a BD, I would be worrie about them climbing and falling since they can climb but they are not the best of climbers. that and proper heating for a BD in that would be near impossible.

It's working out great, surprisingly. So far, Crash seems to be pleased with his surroundings. My son put a good 6"-8" of aspen substrate in and he loves hiding in it during the day when the lamp is off. Greg says that around 7 p.m. or so, he'll come out and lay on top of it, to bask in the lamp, sometimes going up on to the wood piece we've got in there.

It's sturdier than I expected. It has a solid bottom, which will make cleaning eaiser when it's time to disinfect the whole cage. Security hasn't been an issue. The door is on the side and has 2 screw-in plastic closures that you turn to lock the door shut. I don't take any chances - always check it for any signs of loosening or holes every day. However, it's been solid as a rock. Greg has it in a corner of his room where it isn't drafty and is darker during the day. He switches on the lamp between 4:30 and 6:00 p.m. and leaves it on till he heads for school - usually 7:30 a.m. or so.

Melissa

Sometimes, odd cages like that can work for you. I have one of my ball pythons in a weird plexiglass/metal type of cage with sliding doors in front. It does have a perforated metal top, but I just cover it with sheets of plexiglass around shed time, to retain humidity.
You said that there are no drafts in the room; that is important with open-type cages. I am not knowledgible on the keeping of kingsnakes, but you should keep an eye on your temperatures and humidity.
I think you made the right chioce regarding the Burm. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mlededee

that's what i thought too just over a year ago when i got my first ball python (which was also my first herp other than the anoles). :D oh how quickly things change! your attitude is great and i think the addition of a snake will be a fun and rewarding one for your household. :)

:banana:

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I'm with Mlededee -
I purchased my first Ball Python about a year and half to two years ago.
I had no intention of purchasing more, nor breeding them.
Until the more time I spent taking care of Morgan, and watching her grow the more I became amazed by these creatures.
Poking around the internet I found different amazing morphs.
Which got me into purchasing my trio of Albino hets.
In the hope of producing my own Albinos.

Anyways, long story short.
Once you get a snake, I highly doubt you'll be able to settle with one.
Personally, I'd say go with a Ball Python, they grow to a nice handle size, and they're extremely docile on the most part.
I know you won't be disappointed if you go with a Ball Python.
:cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leon

Once you get a snake, I highly doubt you'll be able to settle with one.

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Isn't that the truth! Crash has settled down nicely and we're really enjoying him. OTOH, I'd love to get a Ball for me. However, DH has put his foot down. He says that with 2 dogs, 1 guinea pig, an aquarium full of fish plus Crash, we're at our pet limit. All the more reason for me to volunteer at the pet store! :) I can play with the baby Balls to my heart's content.