Why scaleless balls are not everywhere yet? Everyone has them not only BHB

I am pretty new at this so please educate me.
Other than BHB lots of breeders have heads. So why no full scaleless available yet?

It takes ~3 years to raise a female...
I expect that over the next year or two there will be a lot more produced. Whether the breeder chooses to publicly show off the animals is a completely different story

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I haven't been following the situation closely, but I don't think anybody has seen a picture of a scaleless ball that's more than a hatchling. I believe people are questioning the survivability of full scaleless ball pythons since we have yet to see one make it to even sub-adult size. If Brian@BHB had a surviving sub-adult or adult scaleless, I'm sure it would be all over his youtube channels, but other than the "unveiling" and a couple other short pics of it in vids that came out shortly after it was hatched, there has been nothing. Leaves me to believe it didn't make it, and I would suspect the same from similar situations with other breeders, Could be wrong though.

Other breeders also showed fully scaleless babies...

Lets say 45 breeders currently have Scaleless Heads or Scaleless Balls within the last 4 years.

The snakes are now 1-2 breeding seasons for the oldest snakes. Which produces 50% Scaleless Heads, or 100% Scaleless Heads.

These snakes need a year or two to grow to adulthood and be bred back to produce 25% Scaleless Balls.

So, in total we are looking at 2 years per generation with 2 needed generations. That's 4 years total to produce your own Scaleless Balls.

With 8 egg clutches (high) and 50% odds that's 4 scaleless heads in the first generation. And 2 scaleless balls in the second. That generates about 4 scaleless per breeder. These are desirable as breeders and lets say they want to keep 2.

So we have about 90 Scaleless on the market right now. Each of these was probably pre-sold before the eggs hatched.

Perfect but if it was presold someone sold it. I dont see anyone selling anything

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Originally Posted by qwerty53

Other breeders also showed fully scaleless babies...

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Oh for sure. But have we seen any adults? Even Brian's would be over 3 years old now since he produced it in late 2013. Where are the adult pictures?

When I say presold, I mean the reptile was probably sold between breeders before the eggs were even hatched. You're not going to see them. Keep an eye out the next 2 years, though.

Edit, who had the first one? I remember watching a video on youtube that showed that first one everyone had been freaking about, as an adult

Maybe he doesnt want anyone to see it so people think it died and keep running towards it. But I dont see a problem. Other snakes can be scaleless and they are fine.

Anyways assuming its not fatal superform. Is it worth getting into it with current 3k prices? Hoe fast the market kills the whipped cream of a morph and it becomes a $500 snake?

Why are they not everywhere, well first the price tag when the project was first released not that long ago they were $50000 for a pair of scaleless head, this past season (2016) is the first year that scaleless animals have been produced by someone other than BHB whom produced the first scaless animal (two originally one male and one female, the status of those animals is unknown)

The scaleless animals produced in 2016 are scaleless fire, scaleless pastel, scaleless super pastel, scaleless mojave.

We are still yet to see recessive combos.

People seems to think it's easy and they should be everywhere but again it take time and money not to mention not everyone is interested in this project.

I believe that now that the price of scaleless head has come down to an acceptable level and this project has been taken to a new level by people who have decided to share their work we will see more scaleless in the future but let's say that the initial drama did not help the project.

If you want your money back, get either a full scaleless, or scaleless head with 1-2 other morphs. You're looking for a male. Get a few 3 morph females or more, breed breed breed. The results may take a while but when you have the only Scaleless Pastel Lesser Spider, you'll be making your money back

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Originally Posted by qwerty53

Hoe fast the market kills the whipped cream of a morph and it becomes a $500 snake?

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About 2-3 years, as soon as the offspring from the 3k snakes hit the market.

That's the problem, everyone is breeding for the morph. Luckily that means a market flooded with that morph alone. Then you have the people who are breeding designer morphs, those go for a lot more, the possibilities are higher and there is a larger market for it.

Hence breeding for the designer morphs. If the 3k snake becomes $200, you can still sell the designer morph for $1000.

How old is albino pied and how much was it few years ago?

thanks

11 years. But it's also 2 recessive traits, which is a pretty big difference from codominant traits, which tend to tank in price significantly faster.

Brian from BHB sometimes shows mr smooth, his adult male that was the first hatched, in his videos. He states the reason it doesn't do it often is because many people are against the scaleless mutation and he doesn't like taking the heat. It's surely alive tho.

What's a bit strange to me is seeing a lot of scaleless head (the single dominant form of scaleless) dumped on the market from breeder that just hatched scaleless (seen from both BHB and WHS). They might just be trying to capitalize on the hype but I'd think they would wanna keep them.

I still think if there was really something wrong with the project it would be known by now.