A fresh new contraversy!

Greetings all and welcome to pumba's corner, where anythign may be discused and everyone's input is welcome!

(How was that for a first line)
Now on with the rant!

I spent about an hour on the phone the other evening with a well known and very nice lady in my comunity. She is one of the nicest people I have ever had the pleasure to meet. Unfortunately she and I were discusing an issue that I have a hard time with and she was pushing. To give a bit of backgruoud, she is the leader of the "Christian Coalition" in our little community. By the way, this is not a problem to me because of my religous belief but rather because it is another instance of people trying to govern morality, which in my opinion is between whoever and God. In fact I did attend the same church as she at one time. By the way, the Christian Coalition is the folks that go to the City Council meetings when issues like outlawing the sails of Pornographic movies and mags, and selling alcohol on Sunday are on the table, and of course they oppose these things.

Any way, the new agenda is video games. We have a small business in our town that is not only an ISP but they also have a lan center. They have about 12 computers on line that whoever in the area can go in and for $4.00 an hour play games, stay off the streets, not drink beer, and not smoke dope. They also have PS2 and X-Box. Anyway, I am sure you have all seen the issue with the game Grand theft Auto on the news. This is what spawned their problem with this lan center because if you are at least 18 years old, you can rent this game there and play it on the PS2. The games that are mostly played are Battlefield 1942, Counterstrike, Half Life, Battlefield 2, and other war simulation games.

THis bunch is now starting a thing trying to get the City to outlaw this game center. FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS FUN!!!!!!!!!!!! What in the world is this. She told me during her quest to make me think this place was evil and needed to be abolished, that "Ted Bundy was a nice man untill he saw a Playboy magazine" and that is what made him kill all thoes people. She also told me that she read that a young boy was adicted to video games and this made him go out and kill 8 cops... And on and on and on and on!

What is this world comming to. Is there a direct link between killers and things like porn and video games. Maby, but not only thoes things, and thoes things coupled with other indicators are only personality charicteristics of thoes who are killers. Acording to her, these kids playing these games are going to start killing people all over the world. I tried to explain to her that any one of them things are not the cause of the bad behavor, but say someone who wets the bed, burns things, torchers animals, and plays violent video games or watches porn is probably someone who will do very bad things. She couldn't grasp the concept that they are BAD, and thier being bad brings them to embrace the above listed things, and not only one of them things, but multiple, and usually all of them.

Why in the world in today's society, do we insist on taking personal responcibility out of every bad thing that someone does, and finding blame somewhere else. Why is it that it is always someone elses fault that a dirt bag kills someone rather than just because he was an evil sadistic person, and will always be that person. This is no diferent that the lady that sued McDonalds because she spilled hot coffie on her lap and they had the odasity to not have a warning on the cup that the contents were hot. ARGGGGGGGGG! What did she think the coffee was cold. Was it usually cold. I always thaught coffie was served hot. How in the world did she win that. Or like the guy that sued an elderly couple because there dog bit him on the leg. He won millions for pain and suffering. (Stop before you side with that man for a moment) In this case this man sued from inside the walls of a prison, and was bit by the dog while he was breaking into their house!! HE WON!

It wasn't the lady's fault she was a bit clumbsy that day and burnt herself with coffee, it was McDonalds because they didn't label the cup.

It wasn't the fault of the dirt bag who broke into a house and got bit,,,NOOOOOO it was the fault of the elderly man and woman, they shouldn't have had the odasity to own a dog and keep it loose INSIDE THEIR HOME, heaven forbid someone break in, they might get bit, and we can't have that.

This kind of links back to that Cop thing I posted before, and sorry about this but I am getting tired of people trying to have government legislate morality. I can't help but feel it is the personal responsibility of parents to raise their kids, and of one's self to do what is right.

Like the saying, "It takes a neighborhood to raise a child." HA, that is milarkey, My mom and dad raised me, with a soft hug or kiss and a iron hand, which ever was needed at the time. Personal Responcibility, what ever happened to it? Argggg, Raaaaaaa, ERRRRRRRR!

And that concludes todays episode of Pumba's corner. May you all have a plesant evening, and come back next week when we will discuse whatever comes up. Or even hav a guest speeker........

Cheers
Ray

Ray I completely agree with you. It irritates me to no end, that people like that win lawsuits. They should be smacked for their stupidity not awarded tons of money. Responsibilty has gone out the window, and you can blame everything on your upbringing or some elusive mental disease. Bologna. If people were held accountable for their own actions, we might get somewhere but it's not gonna happen anytime soon. Ok, now that you got me all riled up....when's that guest speaker coming? ;)

[begin sarcasm]Don't ya just love this wonderful country we live in. I just so enjoy others telling me what is morally right and informing me of what I should and shouldn't be subjected to. I'm 32 years old and I'm in no position to make those life changing decisions on my own. I'm glad that there are those that are ready and willing to make them for me.[/end sarcasm]
I think it's a crock. Stupid people piss me off. When are we gonna learn that all these stupid lawsuits, ignorant laws, excessive censorship, and lenient punishments are killing this country? I view censotship as a violation of my rights. What gives someone else the right to tell me what I can and cannot see or hear? I'm not a child. Parents censor their children and teach them what they need to know about the world but damn it, don't censor me. If I want to hear curse words on TV or see sex scenes, that's my choice. Violent video games and movies can't make someone go out on a killing spree. We all have the capacity within us for good and evil. Those with a predisposition for evil can possibly be triggered by these things but for the average person violent games and movies will not cause them to go kill people. I mean if you gonna do away with violent video games then I guess all those games depicting war have to go as well. We don't want people playing them then getting that itch and joining the millitary so they can go over to another country and kill people. Heaven forbid. To all those out there who would try to censor me, I have two words for you - "Bite Me." I'm not gonna go any furture cause I'll go off on a tangent and you'll never get me to shut up. Just remember kids, a little common sense goes a long way.

I know I'm brand-spankin' new here, But I must say I agree with poo-poo on frivolous law suites BUT... as far as the old lady w/ the coffee... She had her lid impropperly placed on the cup by a McDodo tard. It was thier fault it spilled as she sat down in her seat. Also, she had originaly only asked THAT McDodos HELP her with the Dr. bill (22,000) it was an extream burn to a very sensitive area. They in so many words told her to "feck off". She then had no recorse but to sue them. She then only wanted Dr. bills + lawyer and court costs. They desided to drag in 20 lawyers and try to defame her and slandered her in court. Even after her multi million dollar award they spent twice that amount on thier defense and tied up the court system for 3+ years. They should have payed the 22K and this would have NEVER been news. Instead they spent 35+ million to drag this poor lady through the mud. Any-way, I just had to let that out, SORRY!!!!

Pumba: E-mail her this link: http://gr.bolt.com/articles/violence/violence.htm

It's an article about how youth crime has actually declined since all these supposedly "overly violent" video games have become mainstream. Lots of pretty charts and such. It's an interesting read for all these people who are positive that GTA and the like are creating a violent society of displaced youth.

What I don't understand is why they're trying to shut this video game place down if the people who are playing the games are over 18? I could possibly understand if they were letting anyone who wanted to play the MA games, but c'mon, they're ADULTS. The store is obeying the rules by not letting kids play their games, where's the problem?? Are we as adults so incapable of making our own decisions that we need someone who doesn't know a thing about us to be making the decisions for us? I HATE that crap. If you want to live your life that way, by all means. But who the hell are you to say that's the way I have to live mine?! What makes your way of life soooo much better than mine? I can't stand people who think they're better (or more right in their way of thinking) than everyone else. Makes me literally sick to my stomach. RAWR.

I still disagree with the whole McDonalds thing. Back to personal responcibility, if you have a cup with hot contents, keep it pointed upwright unless you are drinking it. This is why people who are drinking coffee in cups with no lids don't get burned. The auspice for the win on that case was lack of warning. This is why if you go there and get coffee, there are warnings all over the cups. Also I realize this is a sensitive area, but commmon, $22,000 in dr bills? If the coffee was at a boil, I could see it, but it aint. I have dumped coffee over on myself before, and it was coffee from McD's, Fresh, (MY fault by the way) and other than a few moments of discomfort, and alot of embarasment, it was over, No blisters, no burns. I ain't buying it. That was a farce for themoney all of the way. I agree that they probably could have gotten away with just paying her origonal asking price for the buy off, but I would have faught that as well. That is just my opinion.

CHeers
Ray

A part from snakes my life is video games pretty much. I hate it when ppl say that video games make you stupid and evil. I am really into the medal of honor series. Playing those games has made me more interested in history cause i want to know what happened at those battles that i play in. I know that sounds kinda wierd but its true.

Interesting thread...here's my .02 cents.

As far as the Grand Theft Auto game, it's been pulled from Wal-Mart and from Blockbuster (rental) apparently because of the hidden sexual content. Okay I get that and as a parent I understand that hidden content is unethical. With 4 kids I do appreciate rating labels on games and music and movies to assist in making decisions about what is appropriate. Please note I said assist...not decide for me what or what not myself or my children should be exposed to.

What I don't get is the game was already rated Mature and therefore should not be available for someone under 18 to rent or buy anyways so what was the point pulling it? One of our local rental places that pulled it rents out adult movies. Again I'm confused....I can not rent a video game but I can rent a sleazy DVD that could as easily get into my minor children's hands as a mature game could if I can't be bothered to make some smart parenting decisions.

I do believe in community responsibility but I believe a helluva lot more in parental responsiblity. It ticks me off no end (here comes the soapbox) when society allows and even encourages this whole "poor me I'm a victim" mentality. Let's just blame everyone else for how we act or how our kids turn out...society...video games...movies....music. How sad is it to blame an outside issue like that, when in my mind it's about setting an example in how you live your life for your kid's to see. The world is full of pressures and poor role models, I figure it's my job as a mom to say..."well you will make your own decisions one day, for now I will help you and more importantly show you right from wrong".

None of my kid's are perfect, neither my husband or I are perfect but at least we try and we don't go around blaming this or that when one of our kid's messes up. We went through some tough stuff with our oldest during her early teen years....hard as it was we faced it and more importantly made her face it. No excuses. No blame. No poor me I couldn't help myself. No bad cop picked on me. She did wrong, we helped her stand and face it. I think we all learned something.

So I guess in the end my mind set is....life happens...you deal with it straight up....no excuses. If life did give you a lot to handle or you didn't have the best set of choices....you still have a choice....victim or survivor. I think there's a lot more self-respect in the second choice but that's just my .02 cents.


~~Jo~~

Actually, on the McDonald's thing, I was listening to Handle on the Law (I think that's how you spell his last name) which is on talk radio. People call in with questions about different legal situations.


He brought up the McDonald's case and said that it was never presented to the public the way it happened. What happened was that the cups that McDonald's was using at the time were not proper for that amount of heat and what happened was that the bottom of the cup fell out and the hot coffee scalded her private areas and he had seen the pictures and they were SEVERE burns.

He is also against frivolous lawsuits, but in this case said that this suit was justified.

I was not aware of that before I heard it. As a result of this case, McDonald's re-designed their coffee cups to withstand the heat of freshly brewed coffee.

I normally don't get involved with threads like this, but I couldn't resist commenting on the ethics of what WalMart chooses to sell and not sell.

Did you know that any kid can walk into any WalMart and for $7.38 (in most places) purchase a copy of the movie "Platoon" on DVD on which they can watch a scene where actors Kevin Dillon ("Bunny") and Charlie Sheen ("Taylor") basically torture a paraplegic, mentally challenged Vietnamese child by shooting at his foot and making him "dance" as well as a scene where a group of soldiers are caught gang raping a Vietnamese girl that is obviously meant to appear under the age of 18?

(BTW, much of the ammunition used in the Columbine massacre was also purchased at Walmart).

But, Walmart won't sell a video game with a "mature content" warning on it because there is a possibility that there are a couple of kids out there that may or may not be smart enough to hack professionally manufactured and copyright protected software and apply an internet download (also a hack not released by the manufacturer) that shows simulated intercourse between 2 digitized characters without displaying genitalia?

I'm certainly not a tree hugger or looking to take long walks in a park with Michael Moore, but .... as a parent, I think WalMart sucks!

-adam

Yep Adam I agree there. It's so two-faced and just them caving into political pressure to look "family friendly".

As I said in my post, we have a video store here locally....funny enough with the word Family in it's name...where you can't rent certain games but they have that lovely little room in the back corner that any kid can sneak in to, they would rent me porn that comes home to a house full of kids, and they have in the past rented movies that were clearly R rated to one of my kids who was just as clearly NOT 18. Talk about a ridiculous double standard.

I'm not advocating for Grand Theft Auto. It is a very violent game that I personally, in my own home, would restrict certain age groups from playing. I just dislike political pressure that thinks it should replace my decision as a parent or a person.


~~Joanna~~

Lawsuits:

In the Mc. Donalds case, from a medical stand point, yes, she could have very well of totalled those huge amounts in medical expenses, you have to take into account infections and things happen during the healing process that we cannot always control. This coming from not only a former surgical technician who worked in a hospital, and a person whose son was almost killed last summer due to a car hitting him. The complcations that came from the intital injuries cost just as much to take care of as the initial injuries themselves.

Initial Injury: Lacerated Liver
Fix: X-tra blood and surgery
Secondary Problem: More bleeding and infection- causing more surgery and meds

It all really adds up and until you see it, you really have no idea. Was not trying to sound mean there guys and gals, just making apoint.

But I do agree, Mc. Donalds should have settled initially when they had the chance, and she was at fault too, common, COFFEE IS HOT! She should have used some common sense, Mc. D's error was not initially putting "CONTENTS HOT!" on the cup and someone took advantage of that cause she could Mc. D's thought everyone had common sense, unfortunately, they were wrong.

Censorship:

Censorship really makes me mad. B/c I as an adult am old enough to decide if I want to watch/play/participate in any thing that others deem not moraly right. Besides, I waited till I was 21 to be legal to do anything I want.... I was good..most of the time :evil grin: .. up till then. I should have the right to make my own choices. My Mom raise me and my brother in a house that we could talk about and ask about anything and get honest answers. Now this does not mean Mom neccessarily told us "ALL" of a story with all detail when we were younger, she more than likely told us what we needed to know for our age till we got older. She had to use common sense and her own judgement. I remember that Mom did not senesor our music, our video games or stuff on tv and cable tv.. but porn was not allowed~ I asked her about this before she died, I wanted to know why she rasied us the way she did. She began reminding me that most of what we watched, was watched as a family at home anyhow, and that often times, we did talk about situations brought up in programming, she also reminded me that she could tell me what album I was listening to at any time ~ reason why, she made it her business to listen to some of the new music, b/c she knew it would produce opportunities to talk with us more about right and wrong and responsibilities. She made it her mission in life to bring things up in a way we were receptive to talking to her about this stuff... she also went on by saying that the most important lesson SHE learned while raising us was this: Pick and Choose your battles wisely. I asked her what that meant, she told me, that she realised that when my brother and I left the house with our friends for the day/weekend/whatever, we were not in her direct knowledge of things we were doing, and that she knew she could not guide us then, and that she had taken the opportunity to teach us in our home the things that meant the most, and hoped we would carry those lessons with us outside of her home. She knew that the things we were exposed to outside of her home we would most likely see no matter what b/c there is always another parent who really dont take the time she took with us, but at least there was more chance it was something she had discussed with us at some point and that we would choose to not copy that in our daily lives. I feel my brother and I faired well, me more so. I know right from wrong and I know all about responsibility and taking responsibility for my actions. It really is a pity that ppl must put the blame and responsibility on things like movies and games and such, when it is they that decide their own actions. I guess what she meant was that she knew she could not fight and win the "battles" caused by being out of her home, but she could win the ones in her home... I know she did not spend much energy fighting us on stuff outside the home that would have been out of her control, but she sure did use the energy at home. I think Mom raised us well, all b/c she left the lines of communication open to us, we felt comfortable talking to her..so we did. Mom did not leave much a secret, not even about sex type stuff. She offered birth control (appropriate to each child) and told us she did not condone us out having sex, but that she knew we would do it anyway if we chose to do so and that she would rather have us protected. I feel it was her not hiding stuff, and being realistic about what she could and could not control outside her home and honesty about everything that made her job as a parent easier for her. In fact, it was her candidness about sexual stuff that left me not really interested in it to try it too early. However- I remember a time where she messed up, and made alcohol a mystery to me a bit much, it in fact made me more interested, cause I had questions... well, that back fired on her.. I started drinking from a 15 year old bottle of JD that had never been opened.... (it was from her wedding party).. got me sick and in the hosp. with my stomach pumped and filled with charcoal at 14 years old. And her a hosp. bill and ambulance bill. Let me tell you, she did not yell or anything later about it.. she knew that my quiet misery with a head ache was merely enough to make me not want to do that again for awhile.. and she was right.

In short... it is us parents who teach our children right from wrong and about responsibility.. but it is not our faults if they choose to be butt~monkeys later in life; esp. if you have done as my Mom did and taught us. I do not feel it is neccessarily the movies and video games and music that make someone be a butt~monkey, it is thier own decision.. they just may get ideas... and to me, even if given the idea via another carrier, they still can choose not to carry it out. Ppl should start taking responsibility for themselves and quit blaming other factors or other ppl for thier mistakes and indecretions.

The stores do not sell certain materials because they think the kids will do something bad and it will get blamed on them. When situations of children committing violent acts hit the news, everyone is always looking for someone to blame. People blame the artists who write music and the companies that make video games, but you rarely hear people blame the parents. I come from a really close family and I have some good friends that don't. I have seen what role parents play in what kids think is right and wrong. When I was growing up, my parents always knew what I was watching, what I was doing, and what I was listening to. They made sure to tell me the differences between reality and what i saw in movies or video games. I remember when I was a little kid, I got 'spanked' and lectured by my father because I pointed a toy gun at my bother and was pretending to shot him(we were playing cops and robbers or something like that)....I never have point any gun...real or fake... at a person since then. That one little correction that my dad made changed the way I look at guns. I am 100% what my parents made me, and if any parents out there wants to blame their child's bad behavior on movies, music or videogames then they need to quit placing blame on others and admit that their child is messed up because they have screwed up.

I have spent the last 10 years of my life serving this country in the USAF to preserve the freedoms I was born with, not so that some christian rights activist can tell me what I can and cant play/listen to/watch. Now in the same respect I also serve to give stores like Walmart the right to sell or not to sell certain games/movies/music.

I have to say, that in some way, this thread is like a breath of fresh air to me. Why? It just proves that there ARE people out there who, like me, are just plain SICK of being morally forced into submission by "religious" zealots. I have my own set of morals, and I do not in ANY way consider myself "immoral", just because I don't let myself be controlled by fundamentalists. I am sure that most of you would agree with me on that point!
About the shop in your area, Pumba: there was a similar shop in my town (it shut down due to poor leadership.) All of the people who played/rented computers there were adults, and were there basically to be able to hookup with others who wanted to play (they played mainly Unreal and Quake.) They harmed no one in doing this. When the night was done, they went home and fell asleep and woke up for work or school the next day; they didn't go out and shoot people! They had a simple hobby, and so did other grown adults. They were not criminals! What, is it going to be like that one movie (forget its title) where we are judged guilty now for crimes we haven't even committed "yet?"
I seriously hope that I will be dead and buried before all of our entertainment is screened and deemed "sanitary" by insane zealots whose only goal is to make me convert to some religion that's outdated and sexist. There, I went off on my rant for tooday. :)

Oh in my long rant previously I forgot this lil nugget. Our nice little community way up here in Michigan can't keep a teen center going for love nor money. Everyone who tries either can't seem for "some" reason to even get a business license or they get shut down for ridiculous reasons.

We had a lovely one going for awhile. The man originally opened it as an internet cafe but then realized our local teens had nothing to do so on Friday nights it was a teens only night. Music, dance contests, computers, Xbox and PS2, a pool table and snacks and pop to buy. Get this...he even bought pizza out of his own pocket as he felt some of the kid's hadn't had a proper dinner before they came out. It was a really reasonable entrance price and a great tool for us parents.....be good or no Friday night deal! He even had security people there.

Well geesh they shut him down! Let's see....well some kids went outside and around the corner into an alley to smoke cigarettes....he was told that he had to put a stop to that. It wasn't on his property but somehow our lil town said it was his fault. He can't legally prevent someone from stepping outside his establishment, he can't babysit a flippin 16 year old, but it was his fault so they said. Oh and the kids sometimes hung out outside. His security did ask them to either enter or move along....but apparently it was okay for the adults at the bar down the street to hang out and talk outside!

I went to see this place when my oldest wanted to go there. It was fantastic, I would have died to have such a cool place to hang out at her age. It got the kids off the street and out of their cars and having fun! The owner commented that hardly any parents bothered to check the place out...they were just glad to dump their teens there or didn't even know where their kids were. That's why he fed them free pizza (even if all he could afford was 1 slice per kid).

Sorry for the long post but isn't it sad. Our town "fathers" decided this place was just not okay....guess we really need yet another stupid gift store for the silly wealthy tourists to buy yet another silly useless Michigan souvenier which was likely made in China anyways.

End of story, the gentleman moved his business to another town (lucky them) and our teenagers are back to hanging out at the waterfront where they continue to be harrassed because oh my they might bother more silly rich folks in their silly yahts who like to go to bed at 9 p.m.

~~Joanna~~

Jo, your post hit the nail right on the head. Think of how you feel in your teenage years; there's all thie energy, all sorts of emotional upheaval, and nowhere to let it out. Unless you go with your friends and seek out hidden places to "hang out" and drink or smoke, and then you're considered bad. And what was your alternative? Go sit at home and listen to your parents argue? Oh wait, I am describing my own teen years again! hehe.
It is so sad that the guy who made that youth center, was forced to move. Sounds like he was a guy who actually cared, heaven forbid, and was realistically tryin to make an alternative place for kids to hang without breaking the law. I might have sunk to some pretty bad lows in my life, and I might still hold jobs that I am not thrilled about (including shoveling horse poop), but nothing would disappoint me more than being on that low level of smarm which is occupied by your town's governors! ::waits for someone to either sue me or blame my attitude on being the product of a divorced home, or some other crud:: lol!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ginevive

What, is it going to be like that one movie (forget its title) where we are judged guilty now for crimes we haven't even committed "yet?"

---

Minority Report

Yeah I can so see that happening in this country. If it can be dreamed up for TV the US will figure out a way to apply it to everyday life.

The McDoodles thing I think was drug out on purpose for publicity. I remember when that happened, there were a lot of people in the town I lived in that started going more ofter to see if something would happen to them so they could sue. Greedy you know what's!

When we're children we pout and say that we can't wait to be grown-ups so we can do whatever we want. When we grow up and try to do whatever we want, there's someone there trying to tell us what to do. I just want to live my life, do as I please. I'm not hurting anyone. No I'm not like a lot of other people in this world. I like being a individual. I live a happy life with my husband, two dogs, a snake, and a lizard. I haven't gone out and killed anyone though I've wished that certain people I know would just drop dead (that's a whole nother rant). Who hasn't felt that at some point? I'm not an immoral person. I just think and believe and act a little differently. I'm pagan, extreemely opinionated, and hate seeing people getting hand-outs instead of hand-ups. The general population in this country has gotten so damn lazy it's absolutely rediculous. When will the stupidity and madness end!?

Yep it was maddening Gin. Some of us wrote to the paper but nothing was done. It wasn't even a real teen center....just one night a week it was teens only but apparently one night is one night too many for some folks.

Your comment about that movie made me think of something I saw on t.v recently about genetic testing. They were talking about testing for some inheritable diseases and helping people make decisions about their future based on their probability of actually exhibiting the disease. Sad to say some people didn't take the testing not out of a personal decision but because they were terrified the information would get out if they tested positive.

Now this isn't positive for anything except a higher risk factor for something but apparently that information can wreck a life, give insurance companies a reason to refuse or charge more for coverage, etc. I would have thought that kind of information was priviliged but we all know not much of anything is anymore.

Isn't that awful that! Bad enough you might find out that you have a genetic risk for something but to be made to suffer for a disease you might well never actually get or not even take a test that could help you make more informed decisions for your future or your children's future is just so wrong.

~~Jo~~

That's sad. Even a person's cell phone records are publicly available, if someone pays a fee to certain websites. Not that I have anything to hide, but, please... that IS the one drawback to this era of amazing Internet and wireless technology. :(

Joanna I had to deal with that issue just last year. I have a very strong family history for breast cancer, and since my mom was diagnosed premenopausal my (and my sister's) risk skyrockets. They do have a genetic test that can be done, but I was told many people don't have it done for fear of being dropped by insurance companies because it could be considered a preexisting condition. The law hasn't caught up with science yet and has left many people in a lurch. I think this is completely ridiculous, and makes me want to scream!

That just makes my blood boil Christie. That you and your sisters might have to not take a test that you should have every right to take considering your risk factors is just.....I can't even find the words that are postable!

You hit the nail on the head. The law is so far behind the scientific community it's ridiculous. That an insurance company can call a genetic factor a "pre-existing condition" when you do not in fact have a condition at that point is a legal loophole that somebody ought to sew the heck up!

Sorry I just really dislike insurance companies and there are times I truely miss the socialized medical system I grew up with in Canada.


~~Joanna~~

Yeah, I think it's completely pathetic. I now have to do so much precautionary checks it's not funny. I have to do yearly mammograms and visit doctors every six months to do physical exams, starting at age 30 instead of the normal 40. That's soo much cheaper than say, just doing the stupid test. Of course I'm not too sure I want to know yet. There's also the problem, if I switch insurance companies now my rates will probably skyrocket. Grrrrr. :mad:

I remember when mum wanted to take the test. The doctors told her that our insurance rates would skyrocket, or they would drop us. And it would be near impossible for any of us to either switch or get insurance after the test.

It's enough to make me want to beat the insurance company people with blunt objects. :bonk:

That is beyond disgusting, deplorable, sickening *stutters and goes off to find even more words that aren't so foul I can't type them*!

To put a doctor in a position to have to advise a woman and her daughters to NOT take a test that could well save their lives or at the very least put some fears to rest and avoid needless, repetitive testing just so some low-life, blood sucking insurance company won't find out..........GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I'll stand in line in a snowstorm to volunteer to hold em for you while you bash em!

I used to work for an insurance company (not health insurance tho but still as bad) and now I remember exactly why I quit working there.


~~Joanna~~

Sweet. They'll never see us coming.


I'll bring the bats..er you bring the juice boxes.

haha you can't properly beat insurance people without being hydrated.:p

* completely off subject

My sisters chameleon(spelling?) is pregnant! woohoo!

Joanna thanks for the support. It's nice to know that's it not me overreacting, but that other people have the same reaction. I don't have any bats, but if you can lend me one.... ;)

LoL I have boys...I have bats! Remember to I'm originally from Canada and had two hockey playing older brothers....hockey sticks!


~~Joanna~~

Oh I almost missed that bit! Whose got the preggie chameleon? (sp)

Now hockey sticks I have, believe it or not. My husband is a hockey freak and even spent a summer up in Canada on a internship. (ever been to La Tuque (sp?)) I'm not too bad with one either :devilish:

Second to the youngest, Jessica has the chameleon. Now those are high maintance animals. UGH! And since they're visiting me too, she and I are taking care of them.

My hubby Mike is a hockey freak as well (did your husband hoot and holler when they finally announced NHL is back on for this season?). Heck I delivered my last baby right between the Stanley Cup playoff games of 2001. Watched the game Saturday night...had the baby noon on Sunday...home Monday afternoon...watched the game on tv that night LOL (I'm a good well trained Canadian hockey wifey!)

Congrats on the preggie chameleon. They have a male and female of those at our local pet store. I hope they find the right buyers as I've heard they are quite a challenge to take care of. Awfully cute tho with the color change and the goofy eyes that look in two directions at once.

Not only did he hoot and holler, but then proceeded to start complaining about draft order and all that. My husband also had hockey on, in the delivery room, while I was in labor with our first born. You can see his hockey jersey in the background and he also had a small hockey outfit ready to bring our son home in. Not to mention the small hockey stick and puck that he place in the crib for first pictures. ugh. :rolleyes:

Oh Christie how funny! The first thing Mike noticed about the absolutely beautiful labor & delivery suite was that it had cable TV!!!!! I think our husband's are soul mates!

Let's see....hockey madness in our home....Mikey saw his first game on TV at age 32 hours old....Mike taught him to stomp around and chant "Stevie Y....Stevie Y!" (Steve Yzerman, Capt Detroit Red Wings and a Canadian I might add)....his first winter coat was a Detroit Red Wings one that Mike would kill me if I got rid of (we are apparently saving it for the first grandson...geesh)...one of Mikey's favorite DVD's is the one commemorating the 2002 Stanley Cup win by gee guess what team....

It goes on and on Christie....are men just wierd or what?????

Oh just thought of a major upside to all this hockey craziness. Whilst our respect husbands are glued to the TV we can spend hours shopping for our favorite critters online or hanging out in reptile forums LOL!

Btw who does your hubby cheer for?

Yeah, I always refer to myself as the hockey widow. My formal dining room was changed into the sports room, where the bubble dome hockey game resides. An autographed Wayne Gretsky jersey hangs on the wall. And my husband is totally obsessed with "The Miracle". His favorite hockey teams are the Canadiens and Capitals, although he did root briefly for the Avalanche when they got Patrick Roy. :rolleyes: I got this call and my husband sounded like there had been some major catastrophe, and it scared me to death only to find out it was due to the trade. grrr!

Oh and I doubt my husband will much care where I am while hockey's on. I may even be able to get agreement for all sorts of stuff while he's not paying attention. We'll see how it goes :D

Hmmm any lawyers on this forum? I think a "hmmmmphhhffff" or any sort of hockey trance induced grunt should be considering a legally binding agreement!


~~Joanna~~

Oh I second that notion!!! :clap: :D (so what if that YES! was a response to that awesome goal, I was sure he was responding to me - how was I to know? :devilish: )