Desert Enchi Lesser?

I just got this guy and was curious about other people's opinions. He was sold to me as a Desert Enchi Lesser. What does everyone think? Does he look like he could have all three of those in him?

I don't know too much about Deserts, (not to be confused with Desert Ghosts), other than the fact that the females are infertile. I like the Desert BPs that I've seen, but I'm not sure how it looks when mixed with other morphs. It doesn't look like the two pictures I've seen on WOBP, but the snake on there looks much younger (and you never know what was done with the pictures).

No big deal what he really is, but I thought it would be nice to hear opinions [emoji3] . I like him either way, but I know some have a dislike for the Deserts and how they were handled before everyone knew about the breeding limitations.

Haha... to complicate things a little, he's also supposed to be 100% Het for Orange Ghost. I'll worry about that part later (maybe) [emoji3] .

I'd love to hear all of the good and bad, no matter if the opinions are from experience or just guesses. If you happen to have a Desert, (or even just an opinion about them), jump right in with whatever you want. If you have a picture of a Desert or Desert combo that you'd like to share, please feel free to do so.

Thanks in advance for any and all opinions (you won't hurt my feelings at all). I didn't pay too much, and I'm just a curious guy [emoji3] .

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...b9c8b44ddd.jpg

In my opinion he looks like an enchi lesser. The desert gene really makes things pop, and the markings are very solid and dark. I'm just not seeing desert in there.


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This is what it would look like if it were a desert lesser enchi.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...05ecdf0f99.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ab755baa5c.jpg


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That's quite a difference. I really appreciate your posts on this. I'm wondering if I was purposely mislead, or if they made a mistake :) . They were pretty knowledgeable about the females being infertile and said they were positive with the genetics... very curious :) .

Thanks again. I'm always open to more opinions on the matter... (even if I get no Desert votes)... it's all good :) .

Here's another shot just for fun (with slightly better lighting). He still doesn't look like the other picture though :/ .

Either way, this is probably a better representation of his color.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f26377f81b.jpg

Try to post some photos in natural light without the flash.
I am not too familiar with the Desert gene but we all know there is Enchi in that animal.
I'm just not sure about the Lesser........:confusd:

Thanks for the suggestion. I will definitely do that. It's a dark, rainy day right now, so hopefully it brightens up a little later.

I have no experience at all with Deserts. We have a couple of Enchis, a couple of Lessers, and a couple of Pastel Lessers. I can see the Lesser and maybe the Enchi in this guy, but I'm not sure that there is a third gene or not.

If I get lucky and it brightens up outside, I'll take a few better pictures without the flash.

Thanks for the suggestion and reply, I appreciate it :) .

I've got a feeling signals got crossed somewhere. They said it was het for ghost? I think it's actually a Desert GHOST Enchi Lesser, just from going out and looking at a few pictures online. I'm not an expert though, and everything is moot until otherwise proven through breeding :)

http://www.morphmarket.com/us/c/rept...-pythons/61678

I don't have any experience with deserts or lessers, though that is obviously enchi, but as far as them deliberately misleading you, who knows? It doesn't take much research to find out about female deserts being infertile, so I wouldn't necessarily use that to prove that they seem to know what they're talking about.

Im can only compare to the Desert Enchi on WOBP

I'm not sure. She said that he's actually 4 genes - Desert, Enchi, Lesser, and 100% Het for Orange Ghost. She said that the 4th is a Recessive gene, so I'd need to pair him to another Het Orange Ghost or an Orange Ghost female to go for 4 visual genes. I knew what she meant, but I find it's always just best to listen :) . She seemed pretty confident, but who knows :) .

You are right about needing to prove through breeding in the end :) .

Thank-you for the reply :) .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

I've got a feeling signals got crossed somewhere. They said it was het for ghost? I think it's actually a Desert GHOST Enchi Lesser, just from going out and looking at a few pictures online. I'm not an expert though, and everything is moot until otherwise proven through breeding :)

http://www.morphmarket.com/us/c/rept...-pythons/61678

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It's hard to say. It didn't sound like she had done research to try and prove anything to me though. I had asked if she was 100% sure he was a male and after saying yes, she just told me to make sure that if I ever breed him and got Desert females to only sell them as pets as they would be infertile. I had already knew that, but it was nice to hear her tell me that. I didn't have my probes with me, and I can't pop, so I was just hoping that he was at least a male in case he was a Desert (I bought him knowing that I may not know for sure). I was "lucky" that he decided to pee on me while extending his "junk" out enough that I could at least KNOW he was a male :) .

He may not be what she thought, but I don't think she knowingly misled me. I didn't pay much for him either way, and I knew that I may not know one way or the other exactly what he was when I bought him. It's fun to hear what others have to say about him though :). I'll try to breed him when he's out of quarantine and go from there. Hopefully I can figure it out one way or the other. My wife wants a Super Enchi anyway... so if nothing else, we can work towards a Super Enchi combo :) .

Thanks for replying. I appreciate everyone's responses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Meerna

I don't have any experience with deserts or lessers, though that is obviously enchi, but as far as them deliberately misleading you, who knows? It doesn't take much research to find out about female deserts being infertile, so I wouldn't necessarily use that to prove that they seem to know what they're talking about.

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He doesn't look the same to me when I look at the Desert Enchi or the Desert Enchi Lesser. I'll do as you suggested if the sun comes out and get some better pictures that might be easier to identify. As I said, no big deal either way, but it's interesting. I'm used to seeing Lesser combos, but not really Enchi combos (and I've never seen a Desert in person before this possibility). He just kind of looks like a Lesser and something else to me (and I think I see the Enchi influence as others seem to). It would be cool if there is Desert in there as well (except for the female infertility), but I have seen some nice examples of BPs with Desert mixed in. I realize that I have no experience with the Desert morph, but I still have my doubts about this guy having it in him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Im can only compare to the Desert Enchi on WOBP

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Maybe see if you can get photos of the parents?

I would think if yours had Desert present it would be much brighter. Here is an Enchi Lesser het Hypo I produced last season. You can see how bright she is without the Desert gene. She is 300 grams.

[IMG]http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...psbxdcul9x.jpg[/IMG]

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

Maybe see if you can get photos of the parents?

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I don't think that there's any chance of that as she told me she got him from a different province when he was a baby (she's had him about 3 years) :/ .

I appreciate the suggestion though... and I'll still ask [emoji3] .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rlditmars

I would think if yours had Desert present it would be much brighter. Here is an Enchi Lesser het Hypo I produced last season. You can see how bright she is without the Desert gene. She is 300 grams.

[IMG]http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...psbxdcul9x.jpg[/IMG]

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She's way brighter than my guy... (really beautiful girl!). Going by your picture, I'm now doubting that he even has both Enchi and Lesser in him [emoji3] .

I appreciate your post and seeing the picture for comparison... thanks :) .

It stayed dark here all day, so I couldn't get a natural light picture of him yet. I'm not sure it will make much of a difference now.... The more I look at him makes me think that I'm just seeing a weird single gene Lesser (at least compared to our other Lessers that we've had/still have).

In the end, it isn't the end of the world either way. I didn't lose much over him, and I like him. He's pretty friendly, and he'll get a good home with us. He's not overly thin, but I think he could put on 100 grams or so (he's just under 600 grams now).

I am still curious about him... I can't help it :) . If anyone else has some opinions, please feel free to jump in. When I can get a better lighted picture, hopefully it will help.

I definitely see enchi in there. The pattern and the way there are no spots or alien heads at all. I really think it's an enchi lesser. Both a desert enchi, and a desert Lesser have way more of an orange tone to them. I don't think desert is in that snake at all but you'd have to breed it to be sure. It is a male so you could breed it even if it was a desert but I don't think it is.


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I really appreciate the reply... thanks very much :) . I'm hoping that you are correct about him being an Enchi Lesser. I can definitely still work with that :) .

I really don't think there is Desert in there at all either. As was suggested by ladywhipple02, I'm starting to think that there was some confusion when this Ball Python was originally bought. She said it was a Desert Enchi Lesser, 100% Het Orange Ghost. I think that there is a good possibility it's actually an Enchi Lesser HET Desert Ghost (Haha... or I'm really hoping ;) ). At least with it being a male, I can get a couple of combo females that are also Het Desert Ghost and then see what happens. If I don't get Desert Ghosts, I can try again... or just not bother.

Mysteries are always fun :) . I sent an email to the woman that I bought him from to see if she could help figure out the mix-up. I don't think anything was done on purpose or with any kind of malice. I'm pretty good with reading people and I believe that she's an honest, good person. Mistakes happen, and especially with all of the genes we have flying around with Ball Pythons, I can see things getting mixed up here and there very easily :) .

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I definitely see enchi in there. The pattern and the way there are no spots or alien heads at all. I really think it's an enchi lesser. Both a desert enchi, and a desert Lesser have way more of an orange tone to them. I don't think desert is in that snake at all but you'd have to breed it to be sure. It is a male so you could breed it even if it was a desert but I don't think it is.


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It was still pretty gloomy here today, but I did get a reply from the woman that I bought him from.

She said that she was sure he was sold as a Desert Enchi Lesser (100% Het for Orange Ghost). She couldn't say for sure, but that's what she was told. She did have a baby picture of him, so I'll add that to this thread.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f2f8cb5a8e.jpg

I'm still not seeing desert. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...eb9b5a5f09.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...43ff97e955.jpg


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It would look like this if it had desert in it... Butter is the same as Lesser.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d134b7c44e.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...488350ac27.jpg




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I'm quite sure that you are right. I think that the person that sold him to the previous owner was "mistaken" :) . I appreciate the confirmation.... Thanks :) .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

It would look like this if it had desert in it... Butter is the same as Lesser.


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...d134b7c44e.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...488350ac27.jpg




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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

It would look like this if it had desert in it... Butter is the same as Lesser.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d134b7c44e.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...488350ac27.jpg




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Can you please expand or explain this comment ...

I knew ( thought ) that a Lesser was the same as a Lesser Platinum but I've never heard or seen that a Butter is the same as a Lesser .

I supposedly have a young Butter Royal ( seen below )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Can you please expand or explain this comment ...

I knew ( thought ) that a Lesser was the same as a Lesser Platinum but I've never heard or seen that a Butter is the same as a Lesser .

I supposedly have a young Butter Royal ( seen below )

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http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2017...add395b352.jpg

Lesser and butter are two different names for the same morph.

A while back a platinum was imported. At the it was unknown what it's genetic make up was. When it bred, it made animals that weren't quite platinum, so they got called lesser platinums. It was unknown at the time that the non-lesser animals had the daddy gene. It took a while to figure out what was going on. But now we know a lesser and daddy gene make platinums.

Butters were imported as you see them today, just single morphs. There have been a couple lines called either lesser or butter imported since then also.

Doesn't stop them all from being the same morph, just brought into captivity at different times.