Burns / Infection / Unknown Disease : One of the Worst Snake Owners

To those who have seen my thread on Dave, you may have more of a feel for this. If you do not know Dave, he's a python I got from my friend's step dad and a week into his arrival he fell into a nasty case of slipped skin disease.

The thread: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...les-Just-Split

He's made a full recovery.

But if you know or if you don't know, the previous owner of Dave has two other snakes. Another ball python and a red tail boa constrictor. I recently went to my friend's house again and of course I took out Scorchmuffin, the other ball python. He's about four feet long and pretty skinny but not as famished as Dave once was. As usual, his cage looks the exact same : filthy, full of urates, feces, and old shed and the water bowl is all dried out. I take him own and brush off loose shed of his. He's breathing heavy, about 20 breaths per minute with every one having a wheeze. Poor thing. I couldn't believe I didn't feel it on him. I turn him over and what I see... Oh, man, I thought Dave had it bad.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m%2Fbgpyd1.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2F2n69ez4.jpg

How long has this been going on to let it get that bad? He's about four feet long and it goes halfway down his body to the very tip of his tail. Two whole feet of him is like this. Once I show my friend, she wonders if it was the heat pads which have burned him before. Yes, but those were minor burns that only reddened his undersides. That could be one of the causes but only one. It's not alone. Arthur, her step dad, comes downstairs in the basement where he keeps his snakes and he sees this. Does he looks surprised? Yes. Ariana, my friend, asks the question I wanted to know. "Does he need to go to a vet?"

"No."

No? Let's break this down.

• His cage is filthy and there is no clue of how long those lacerations have been open
• His cage and himself smell awful and I can't decide if it's infection of just poop (or rotting scales)
• He has multiple open wounds
• This is on his underside, leaving him very vulnerable to infection
• He's bleeding in some areas
• It is most likely very painful for him to even move that side of his body as when I held him, he mostly held it limp
• It's covers over his duct as well, making bowel movements painful or more difficult
• Some scales are quite literally falling off as we speak
• Bedding was very stuckon him in some places

Do I need to go on? Arthur claimed that he has some antibiotic cream that he could use. That's fine. That's good. However, the man simply went back upstairs, leaving the snake to us, the cage messy, and he didn't come back with any medical supplies to help him. I cleaned out his bowl (full of algae or mold) as best as I could and filled it with water but we eventually took it out after he took a very long drink because we didn't want the dirty bowl to aid in an infection. By we, I mean me and Ariana (and her friend Jaina who was over at the time). We tried to bandage the poor thing by ourselves to at least help but of course snakes are very difficult to bandage. It stayed on for a couple hours but came off in the morning. That morning, I woke up before my friends and I took it upon myself to clean his cage, unplug the other heating pad that he didn't unplug. (Arthur unplugged one heating pad so it didn't worsen but apparently he was heating pads on both sides which is bad enough but he didn't even remember to take out the other one. God.) I took out all the bedding and replaced it with paper towels after trying to scrub off that cage. Urates were embedding into the wood, as well as old shed.

His five year old son (do you call it a step-son?) helped me. The five year old helped me with something the owner of the animal was too lazy to do. Yeesh.

I put him back in to rest. But, honestly, I can't do anything for him. I don't have the money myself to offer to take him to the vet; nor can I take him home and care for him until I can get enough.

- - -

However, I'm not here to ask how to handle this. I know how to handle it. I'd do the same process as I did with Dave except with some extra precautions. The issue is that he's not my snake. Dave was given to me by the same guy and look what happened to him. Look what happened to Scorchmuffin. Is Slick, his boa, coming next? He only seems to care for that one, though, so he'd probably give him medical treatment. I don't even know if Ariana is going to bother him into treating the poor guy.

Anyway, does anybody know what this is? Burns with a mixture of some weird deficiency? Has anybody seen anything similar?

I know it's not too late to save the guy but the issue is I can't. I'm towns over from them and I can't tell Arthur what to do even if I try. I don't want him to go alone, though. Scorchmuffin is a very sweet snake that doesn't deserve this in any way, shape, or form. Even if Dave didn't make it he'd have over fifty people to bid him a loving goodbye. Scorchmuffin deserves that, too, I suppose. I'm going to try my best to get this incompetent owner to do something about it but I can't make promises.

I pray he's as strong as Dave.

Personally I'd turn those pictures in to animal control and have that animal taken. Even if they just put him down it's better than what Hes going to suffer through

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I'm just sick.

I have to be careful what to write, because my insides are churning, but I know this isn't your fault and you did the best you could.

But I'm still mad. I'm still sick. Those are terrible pictures, terrible wounds. Doesn't that guy (a$$hole) know that snakes feel pain? And he left that poor thing to sit with half the body rotting in painful infection, in urates and poop, in filth, on to hot heating pads. Wth. And he wasn't even EMBARRASSED ???

Seriously, I think I would possibly just have to loose a friend over this. Because I would turn that person in. And his step daughter might have a problem with it. But I couldn't not do anything. That snake (and any really) needs to be taken away. Being put down would be kinder then leaving it there that way.

I would ask for that snake to be released, either to you or to a rescue that will hopefully step up when asked. If they refuse, I would tell them I'm calling animal control. There simply is no excuse, no excuse whatsoever.

Ok, I can feel the heat rising again and my blood pressure is going up. So I will step out , because I'm furious.

@mama_arty I thought about that, actually. I'm going to talk to my friend and see if Arthur is doing anything about it and if what he is doing will make him recover. Dave had smaller lacerations, yet he still got antibiotic cream AND shots. I don't think cream will help if there's an infection settling in, anyway.

I want to hear from others, too. I just don't want to be hated by Arthur if animal control shows up and takes him away. He doesn't seem to care for his snakes, but his reputation may matter more. Who knows? If he's doing nothing then I have no choice.

@zina10 I see your point. I have my angry side as well saying the same thing, however I'm not going to lose Ariana's friendship because of it. Like I said before, if he's not doing anything then I will forward it to animal control.

I wouldn't trust that person to treat a cockroach.

If that is how he kept that snake, what is going to change now. Nothing. That snake may even be to far gone, toxic. "Slapping on some cream" is not going to do it. You already know what it takes.
And the cage will have to be sanitized and spotless, cleaned EVERY day, while the rotted skin and blood comes off. It would be a long term and intensive treatment, do you really think that guy would do all that?

I don't want you to get in trouble with anyone. I understand things can be complicated.

But this is unacceptable. If the snake stays with the guy its better off dead asap.


edited to say: Sorry I'm so snappy and mad. Those pictures are REALLY hard to look at. I can't imagine how that poor animal must be suffering.

It's one in the morning for me. I'll be calling my friend tomorrow and talking to her about it. I agree, but I also don't agree. Then again, I'm being too generous. Still, he either has to take drastic measures or lose his snake.

What you described is far beyond owner incompetence. It is absolute indifference to the suffering of the animals in his possession.


If he isn't willing to turn them over to you, and you can take them to a rescue, he should be turned in to the authorities and made to surrender them. There is no way he can be trusted with animals. Your friend should understand.

Man and I felt like crap because I didn't check on one of my balls for a couple weeks because I was waiting for the rats to give birth and it had 3 small patches of scale rot because somehow it's tub was the only one of 4 that was building up condensation. Took about a shed's time of neosporin, but damn this is baaaad

By the way, there is scale rot in there. The patches of scales have a distinct red/brown color that I recognize. It is probably systemic by now and needs more than some neosporin and a clean cage, it needs actual antibiotic treatments.

You can guess the length of time by the amount of poop. Count each cluster and that's probably 1 week per cluster

Nixon, unfortunately, that man has to be stopped. ALL animals need to be removed from him. What he is doing is not incompetence, not ignorance, not laziness...it is CRUEL and it is INHUMANE and it is TORTURE. I would love to see that man stuck in a cage and let to live and suffer the way he treats his snakes and any other animals he may be keeping.

nice to see you around, Nixon. i read through every page of Dave's recovery, shed a couple tears for you both, and seeing this type of abuse from the same owner Dave was rescued from is beyond infuriating.

if your friend is truly your friend, and they fully understand the animal abuse going on in their own home, they should be completely understanding of any actions you take with proper authorities. if this had been an animal with fur i can believe she would have called proper authorities herself.

i highly encourage you to take this route, and properly vet anyone you speak with on the conditions of Dave as well. i'd go so far as to show them your Dave thread; it's a real-time timeline of the abuse and extensive recovery. heck, i think i'd want to talk to someone in person (but i understand if that's not possible for you).

you're and incredibly smart, caring, and brave young person, Nixon. i know you can do right by these animals as well as have this person understand the repercussions of their neglect and abuse by having authorities show him what happens when you abuse an animal.

i wish you the best of luck.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

nice to see you around, Nixon. i read through every page of Dave's recovery, shed a couple tears for you both, and seeing this type of abuse from the same owner Dave was rescued from is beyond infuriating.

if your friend is truly your friend, and they fully understand the animal abuse going on in their own home, they should be completely understanding of any actions you take with proper authorities. if this had been an animal with fur i can believe she would have called proper authorities herself.

i highly encourage you to take this route, and properly vet anyone you speak with on the conditions of Dave as well. i'd go so far as to show them your Dave thread; it's a real-time timeline of the abuse and extensive recovery. heck, i think i'd want to talk to someone in person (but i understand if that's not possible for you).

you're and incredibly smart, caring, and brave young person, Nixon. i know you can do right by these animals as well as have this person understand the repercussions of their neglect and abuse by having authorities show him what happens when you abuse an animal.

i wish you the best of luck.

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^^^very well said^^^

Try to find a reptile rescue in the area where your friend lives and see if you can get advice from there. Sometimes just calling animal control isn't enough, you need to get hold of a specific person there who has a clue about keeping reptiles.

He gave Dave over to you, is there anyway to convince him of giving over the other two, even if you need to immediately turn them over to a rescue if you yourself don't have resources, it might be easier to convince him to surrender them willingly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

He gave Dave over to you, is there anyway to convince him of giving over the other two, even if you need to immediately turn them over to a rescue if you yourself don't have resources, it might be easier to convince him to surrender them willingly.

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I agree with the sentiment on this, but it is likely that the rescue is going to think that the snakes belong to the OP regardless of what they say. The act of kindness may create problems the OP does not want to deal with. I know what I would do but that does not belong on a public forum.

Nixon, I also read your whole thread about Dave. I know we were all really impressed by your (and his!) perseverance and care. One suggestion could be setting up a GoFundMe page to ask for donations toward the vet bills for this snake - I bet a lot of folks here would happily pitch in a few bucks, especially since we know you have a track record of successfully rehabilitating an animal with extensive care needs. I know this sounds like asking for hand-outs, which lots of us really don't like to do. But don't think of it that way - you're just doing what it takes to help and animal in need, and giving other people who care a way to help.

It really sounds like the most likely way that those two remaining snakes have a chance at anything other than a slow, painful death is for them to be turned over to you, and I know your parents might start to wonder how many snakes you're going to end up with. But I would also expect that if you don't feel you can keep that many snakes long term, the forum could also be a way to find a good forever home for them once they're ready to be adopted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coluber42

Nixon, I also read your whole thread about Dave. I know we were all really impressed by your (and his!) perseverance and care. One suggestion could be setting up a GoFundMe page to ask for donations toward the vet bills for this snake - I bet a lot of folks here would happily pitch in a few bucks, especially since we know you have a track record of successfully rehabilitating an animal with extensive care needs. I know this sounds like asking for hand-outs, which lots of us really don't like to do. But don't think of it that way - you're just doing what it takes to help and animal in need, and giving other people who care a way to help.

It really sounds like the most likely way that those two remaining snakes have a chance at anything other than a slow, painful death is for them to be turned over to you, and I know your parents might start to wonder how many snakes you're going to end up with. But I would also expect that if you don't feel you can keep that many snakes long term, the forum could also be a way to find a good forever home for them once they're ready to be adopted.

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Wonderful idea. Based on Nixon's success with Dave I'd pitch in.

I would use YouCaring, as GoFundMe has done some hinky business stuff in the past before, but other than that yes, wholeheartedly agree.

I would donate as well, but please don't feel guilty if you are not up to it. There's a reason a very large percentage of rescuers either get burned out or end up being animal hoarders. Even apart from the money, it's a lot of work and a lot of emotional labor. There's a very difficult line you have to draw so you can help where you truly feel able and accept that not all suffering animals can be your responsibility. You've done amazing things for Dave. Getting animal control involved for the others may be the best route. Even that is a sacrifice you will be making to fix something that is not your fault. The most difficult thing is always accepting that we can't help every animal and choosing what is within our limits.

I understand. I'm waiting to get in touch with my friend. She will understand. She knows he doesn't take care of his reptiles. I really just have to be careful about this. You guys might think that it's easy but I don't want him to stop our friendship or from visiting. I don't know how he'll react; ESPECIALLY if his boa gets taken away. That's the only guy he actually cares about, although he still lags on the cage cleaning and feeding. I'm only human and I'm very nervous about the whole thing.

Other than that, thank for telling me parts of what he has. For sure, animal control will be called but I'm not so sure about all his animals being taken away. They have two dogs and some leopard geckos as well as a cat. They're all fine, except Arthur never cleans the leopard gecko cage (which he gave to his 5 year old son which won't know how to properly sanitize the cage.) and the other members of the family take out the dogs. The cat mostly hides under the bed and is more attached to the mom, I think, but he's doing good. He's probably the healthiest animal.

I can be very mean when I want to be. I can be the cruelest person someone could ever know but God...
I would be devastated if even my guinea pigs were taken away and those two are becoming more of a nuisance. I still love and take care of them, though. They're getting pretty old so their time will come shortly.

Moments like this I wish I could see the outcomes. I'll do what I can. Scorchmuffin will defiantly be taken.

Nice going, me, I didn't notice the second page.

I'll think about it. My mom said no more animals as we have enough as it is. I wish there was someway I could simply fund for him getting healthcare while he stays somewhere else. I also thought about taking him and sending him over but yeah, they could accuse me. I'll have to talk to my parents about this. They'll probably lean on the animal rescue more than the funding, although I'd love to take this into my own hands. I know for a fact they'll probably just put him down but, man, Scorchmuffin has been through a lot as Dave has, too, and he deserves a chance. Obviously, if it's out of control then there's nothing that can be done. But as long as somebody tried.

Got to respect the parents wishes. If it was my kid asking, I think what may work is knowing the survival prospects are slim in the first place and if you promised to adopt it out once it was well.

Selfishly my biggest concern would be bringing an animal in that condition anywhere near my collection. Could end up saving one and killing a bunch. If you do end up taking care of it, keep it far, far away from Dave.

Guys!

I talked to my mom and she said she would allow me to keep Scorchmuffin for awhile to aid him. I told her about the fundraiser I could start so there could be enough money to get him proper treatment. The only thing is that Arthur is going to have to hand him over. I can move my rats to a smaller tank for the time being, because we might just give Dave to a rescue organization after he's received treatment and has healed well enough (if he does so). I don't trust Arthur one bit.

Oh, but I should talk about my friend.

Last night, I called her to talk about Scorchmuffin and how it may come to be that I'll end up calling animal control. I couldn't even get to that part until she says, "Well, we didn't give you permission to post those pictures."

I really don't want to go into a long paragraph of why what she said is wrong in multiple ways because you guys can figure.

Anyway, pray I get him. When he gets well enough he's going to a more reliable person.

That makes me so angry and sad at the same time. I don't understand how anyone could treat an animal like that. Please speak up about what's going on so his remaining snakes can get the help they deserve.

permission is not needed for those photos, just so you know. you were invited into the house, there was no consent needed.

Seems to me, if they were aware that you took photos, then, w/o anything else said at the time by them on it, you had tacit permission to use the photos (they are your property) as you see fit.

Honestly, if/once you get the snake away from them, I'd have absolutely nothing further to do with these folks. They are bad news.

I'm worried, though. I don't have many friends and she's one that stuck with me since junior high. She always does this crap, though, saying that people don't have permission to look up a YouTube video on her computer even though they're her friend and they're inside her house only wanting to show something funny or cool. She can be a complete brat at times and she's God awful to her little brother who has quite literally asked me to take him home because she's so mean to him.

At the same time she's a good friend. She's funny and we can joke about a lot of things others don't find amusing. We play the same games and like the same things. On days like those the good outweighs the bad but it's starting to drift differently. I remember she'd always hate Slick, the boa, because he bit her. Can you really blame him? I want to give her a firm backhanded slap sometimes. He was scared. He was taken out of his tank at the wrong time and hid under a couch. She then tried to grab him from the front. It's not his fault she's not aware of how to handle a threatened snake. He's a sweet snake that gets grumpy when he's hungry because he's not fed properly. He's underweight to no surprise and I'd be pissed, too. She always hates it when I ask Arthur to take Slick out. Come on, man. Give the guy some love. I doubt these guys ever get handled outside of me coming over there.

I'm having issues at the moment because she removed me from her contacts on Skype. Obviously, I have multiple ways of contacting her but getting in touch is not the point. I got in a fight with her cousin today and I don't know if that triggered it or my phone call. She's hot-headed and will probably get over it but I don't want that to effect if I get Scorchmuffin or not.

I can still hear what she said. "Everything's fine; you don't need to worry about a thing because we have it under control."

Dave would've died there.

I think honestly the thing is... does she value you and your friendship? All relationships are two way streets, including platonic ones. If she just wants a fair weather friend who will never speak up for honesty and compassion, then ultimately, that's not really a friend, that's a butt-patter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nixon

I'm worried, though. I don't have many friends and she's one that stuck with me since junior high. She always does this crap, though, saying that people don't have permission to look up a YouTube video on her computer even though they're her friend and they're inside her house only wanting to show something funny or cool. She can be a complete brat at times and she's God awful to her little brother who has quite literally asked me to take him home because she's so mean to him.

At the same time she's a good friend. She's funny and we can joke about a lot of things others don't find amusing. We play the same games and like the same things. On days like those the good outweighs the bad but it's starting to drift differently. I remember she'd always hate Slick, the boa, because he bit her. Can you really blame him? I want to give her a firm backhanded slap sometimes. He was scared. He was taken out of his tank at the wrong time and hid under a couch. She then tried to grab him from the front. It's not his fault she's not aware of how to handle a threatened snake. He's a sweet snake that gets grumpy when he's hungry because he's not fed properly. He's underweight to no surprise and I'd be pissed, too. She always hates it when I ask Arthur to take Slick out. Come on, man. Give the guy some love. I doubt these guys ever get handled outside of me coming over there.

I'm having issues at the moment because she removed me from her contacts on Skype. Obviously, I have multiple ways of contacting her but getting in touch is not the point. I got in a fight with her cousin today and I don't know if that triggered it or my phone call. She's hot-headed and will probably get over it but I don't want that to effect if I get Scorchmuffin or not.

I can still hear what she said. "Everything's fine; you don't need to worry about a thing because we have it under control."

Dave would've died there.

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This is a toxic situation, the more contact you have with these folks the more you will succumb to it. I can only infer that you are in high-school, and can tell you that this is when kids start to become the adults that they will eventually be. It seems like you are becoming a responsible and compassionate person, but from what i've seen here, this other person is not. There are lots of people who will like the same jokes and games as you but the ties that bind are the values that you share - again, from what i've seen here and in your post about Dave, its would seem that you and this person do not have many values in common. Your persistance in helping these animals is truly admirable, and i'm sure you will pursue it further, but beyond that i would highly reccomend that you remove this person from your life. It might seem like a bummer now, but 15, 20 years from now you'll look back and be glad you stopped hanging out with the crazy kid who tortured her pets (and her brother, apparently). Good Luck.

@Nixon- I think all you're doing is great. You're wise beyond your years and you have a big heart in you. Never lose that.
That being said, you are still young and this a lot to handle. It would be a tough situation for anybody, regardless of age. Unfortunately, this situation is time sensitive due to the well-being of the snake and the severity of the injuries. This makes your decision even harder, I believe. How you handle it is up to you and only you. I'm confident, based on everything I've read in this thread as well as the original Dave thread, you will do what you feel is best for you and the snake. I know it's a hard decision and I'm just going to quickly share some life experience and let you do with it what you choose.
I know you say you don't have many friends, but remember, you're young. You probably haven't met your REAL, closest friend yet. When you're that young, friendships seem like the whole world. And sometimes they can be. I'm 38 and there are friends I've had since Jr High that to this day I would be there for in an instant. But MANY, MANY friends have come and gone. Sometimes people change, sometimes life changes. But you will ALWAYS meet new people and make new friends. Choose the ones you want to be close with wisely, and remember: toxicity can be contagious. Don't let anybody else bring you down or change the awesome person you seem to be.

I would bypass the friend and directly ask the step dad if you can take the snake. I don't know how you did it with Dave but if he let you take one of his animals once it gives me hope that he'll allow you to rescue another. If he says no (and I doubt they would be polite about it), the next step is contacting the proper authorities. Honestly, it seems like your friend is quite dominant in your friendship, and not in a way that's remotely healthy. Also, imo, someone who justifies and defends blatant animal abuse is not someone worth the time or personal investment of caring empathetic human beings. (and this is my point of view based on life experiences with similar individuals, not just the one below)

Somewhat relevant story time: In junior high I was at a friends house, out in the back yard with her dog. We weren't terribly close but had known each other for many years and would hang out outside of school on occasion. There was a stray kitten walking along the fence and she went over to pick the little thing up. It mewed and I thought it was absolutely adorable, a cute little grey striped puff ball just old enough to be on it's own. She held it for a moment, scratched it behind the ears, and then out of the blue grabbed the poor thing by the scruff and threw it full force into the wooden fence. The little thing yowled and bolted off, apparently relatively uninjured. Needless to say I was shocked, horrified, and enraged all at once... almost made things physical, I was that mad. Her excuse was that it drives her dog nuts when they walk on the fence and she can't stand the barking, even though her dog had sat idly by during the whole incident. She "just wanted to make sure they don't come back". Yeah, total bull. I said some pretty harsh things, not just to her but to her mom and actually got her grounded for a few weeks. One "friendship" down the drain, but I don't think I could have lived guilt free if I hadn't said or done anything in that instance.

Scorchmuffin isn't just a whole other ball game here, it's a league of its own. What you are witnessing with that animal isn't just one instance of abusive treatment, it is prolonged abuse and negligence which at this point have coalesced into what I consider to be torture. Forcing an animal to live in its own waste in an environment where the floor is essentially a low-intensity hot plate, cooking alive for months on end with no relief is torture, pure and simple. You're a good person Nixon and you know what the right thing to do here is. That animal (and all animals really) need to be out of that house and of the care of that family.

Also--- how ironic is it that his name is Scorchmuffin:rolleyes:

Trisnake, I usually find myself climbing for dominance in unstable friendships and I'm usually the one to cause the fights and to tear down who I thought were my friends. Yes, I can be very kind and considerate - to animals. She's done plenty to piss me off and if she gets in the way of me saving this poor guy then tough luck. My mother says to not call animal control because, mostly, she doesn't want me to lose a friendship but I'm losing one anyway so why bother? She also doesn't want them to get mad and target us.

What's he going to do? Shoot me? He owns guns. If he wants to spend years in prison then be my guest. I doubt he's the type of person to do that, though. The most he'd do is never welcome me to their house again.

Oh, but Ariana. I gave her a rat quite a while ago that was originally a feeder rat but man, the little guy was so sweet. The others usually are untamed and bite fingers but this one was so loving so I let her keep it. I would feel bad if they were eaten. That and her dog is the only animal she cares about. She's always buying things for her rat such as a play pen, a hammock, and she's always taking her out. That's good and all but why can't you treat the snakes like you treat her? Her room is in the basement where the snakes are so it's not like the leopard geckos on the second floor that she never gets to see. I thought she likes Scorchmuffin but honest to God all she cares about is pissing me off with her anime and her rat and dog.

The only reason I feel bad is because of my mom. She's always pushing me to make new friends but, you see, I don't like people. I already found my soul mate and we've been together for 5 years now. She agrees with me on this whole mess. God, I wish she was my sister. She lives in Washington and I'm all the way in Illinois. I could only cope last night because of her.

Anyway, I realized I was on a snake form. My mom said that Ariana's mom replied but she didn't say that she said yes so I'm a bit anxious about the answer. Wish me luck.

And yes, very ironic.

They said no. They said "he's getting better" and "we'll take him to a vet if he gets worse."

I absolutely doubt it. They said they don't want us to interfere but right now I am angry. They said they don't want their information online. Well, too bad. "Art has been taking care of snakes all his life."

Are...
Are you lying to me now?
Do you really expect to believe that the man who caused two snakes to almost (and one might) meet their maker? Sadistic. Real funny, Tiffany. All your family does is mistreat animal, vape in front of children, and mistreat your daughter until she takes it out on her friends. A real happy picture.

But, guys. My mom is really pressing me to not call animal control. She's trying to make me promise, but I said that promises are nothing. I'm so confused on what to do at this point. They say they're doing things but God, I highly doubt it. Infection is set in. It could be already too late. And they're going to get away with it. I really can't do it. I can't disobey my mother but at the same time it's so easy; and so right. Oh, if only Ariana was still on my contacts so I could give her a proper, "goodbye. Her whole family is a mess. You can't expect to collide two storms and expect good results. Just a week ago I went her birthday party and it was so much fun.

This stress is killing me.

I don't think I can call animal control. Honestly, I'm afraid.

Nixon, I responded earlier saying you needed to get involved, but honestly, I think the best move now is to completely detach yourself from the situation.

The animals are important, but you are more so, and this has all of the indicators of a potentially very ugly situation. I completely commend you on your caring for Dave, and all you've done for the other animals still in the :cens0r: care. But this one won't end well for you. What you are attempting to do is the 100% right thing, but at this point, without the support of your parents, it becomes exponentially harder. If they can't be convinced to back your move, then please just walk away from this fight. Do try and convince them to go to the authorities. Pull the "what would you do if this was a puppy or a kitten?" However, if they are adamant that they don't want to cross this guy because he is dangerous - well, there might be a valid reason for it. We out here on the web aren't in a position to judge that. Though, I would ask if he was so dangerous, why do they allow you to visit in the first place? In the end though, it is their house, their rules, and it sounds like they have your safety in mind (good parents). I'd respect their wishes. At the very least, you gave the :cens0r: a wake up call that there is legal jeopardy in what he is doing.


As for the friendship, I'm sorry dude but that is toxic. I've had very few true friends, so I know exactly why you don't want to lose someone you think of as a long term friend. It doesn't work when one person puts in all the effort. I've been there too. She's not really a friend, and you deserve better.

I just hope for the best with Scorchmuffin. When I get back into contact with Ariana I'm going to quite literally give her the giant middle finger. Her entire family is nonsense on unneeded stress. As long as I have my one friend who talks to me frequently then I'll be alright. But I feel the problem was the pushing. Most were telling me to call animal control which, yes, is the right thing but I got my whole life ahead of me and I don't need this @$$ of a family targeting me throughout.

Sure, I'm mean. I'm a little messed up. I piss people off. But, God, at least I try to stop. Ariana went from borderline rude to an enemy.

I'm sharing about this family when I go to the reptile show. Dave is the main part so of course they'll be mentioned. One by one they'll be hated - but never truly known. (Obviously, not going to give out their last name.)

In the end, at least I saved one. Dave is slithering around right now, curling about his hiding log. He's happy; comfortable. I recently fixed my gram scale. I got him at less than 395 grams (2 and half foot snake) and now he's about 750. Thank you all for the support, though, through both of these stories. It's been an emotional roller coaster. I wish we could've rescued Scorchmuffin but those chances look slim now. Maybe somebody else will knock sense into them.

Thank you, everybody. It's been a journey.

Nothing about what Nixons mother has supposedly said concerns his or their safety in any way. What I am inferring here is that she just wants her child to have friends and be normal and make things easy on everyone. Not taking into account and quite frankly not caring that they're literally torturing animals in their basement. I'm sorry but I would have to disobey my parents on this one, it is absolutely not right what they are asking of you.

Ignoring the situation and forgetting about it while these animals continue to suffer, when you very well CAN do something about it, is wrong, and that's what they're asking of you. Maybe I am bullheaded, maybe I am crass, you could even consider me to be rude. But I honestly don't care what I am as long as those animals are rescued, whatever fate they meet.

I wouldnt worry about retaliation; its the quickest way to earn yourself more interactions with law enforcement, and I doubt they would want anything to do with that if they get their house raided and their animals taken. Which, at this point, is what I fully believe should happen.

You could even do it anonymously. Just don't warn them or they may let them go before it happens. Things like this just really make my blood boil...

EDIT: you could even blame it on me, nasty old Trisnake turning them in since you posted the story on the internet ;)

Same. I AM a parent, and I would absolutely be 100% behind my kids if any one of them came home to tell me about a sick, neglected animal at a friend's house. If it were me, I'd be going down there to have it out face-to-face with the other adults, because that's not something a kid should have to worry about weighing on their conscience, and if they resisted then AC would be called. Friends come and go.. The good ones are willing to talk and listen. I married my best friend from high school, but cut loose another freind that I had been practically siblings with since grade school because she wouldn't respect my boundaries. Number is never so important as quality.

Though as a note: if you are worried about animal control taking all the animals including the dog and rat, my experience is they will not seize right away unless the animal is in clear danger and will instead require the owner to seek vet care, then do wellness checks from that point on to see if the situation is getting better. If the rat and dog have no signs of neglect they usually won't be seized, but they will keep tabs on the other animals in the house just in case. Scorchmuffin is bad enough they may seize him on sight and leave the other one with instructions to clean up their act or else.

I don't care if they're all taken. From all the crap she's put me through I'd love to see their reaction but my mom is saying how they told her specifically for us not to get involved. She says at that point we can't do anything because of consent? (Obviously, you don't need consent but still...) I really don't want to go against my mother. I get it. You guys really feel for these animals but I'm sixteen, already stressed as it is and I can't handle this situation alone. I'm in the dark.

Right now, all I'm feeling is pressure from everybody telling me to do the one thing I can't do. I'm sorry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nixon

my mom is saying how they told her specifically for us not to get involved. She says at that point we can't do anything because of consent?

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Of course they don't want you to get involved and call animal control; animal neglect and abuse is a crime. That's like a bank robber asking you not to call 911! And consent has nothing to do with it, if you see a crime you can report it and leave the investigation up to the authorities.

Now, I can tell you that most animal control folks don't know much about reptiles. They can handle dogs, cats, and livestock just fine, but reptiles and birds aren't their area of expertise because they don't come across those types of animals very often. That's why I suggested contacting a rescue to see what they recommend.

The only thing you would be doing alone is calling the relevant people; they will handle the rest.

I'm going to be honest here. You did great with Dave, and I understand that you're young. But quite frankly in this instance I don't care. Age isn't an excuse, and stressed or otherwise, if you turn away here youre in the same boat as them.

You justifying not acting is the same as you justifying the abuse that's taking place. There is literally no reason for you to let this go on, yet that is the choice you're making. You have the ability to save this animal and do the right thing, but you withhold that from a poor suffering creature. And why? Because you don't want to rock the boat? Because you're "stressed"? Gee, I wonder how much stress Scorchmuffin is going through... I'm sure he'll understand.

and before you think "oh, look at that mean old adult picking on a poor 16 year old! put yourself in his shoes!", I'll leave you with this; I'm 19. I still live with my parents. I am enrolled in school full time and I work part time. Big whooping deal that you're stressed, everybody who lives life is. Doesn't keep them from doing the right thing.

You're a real nice person, aren'tcha? You think this is so easy for me? You think life is so carefree that I can just do anything you guys can ask me to do? You can take your opinion, roll it up sideways, and stick it where the sun don't shine. Somebody might as well lock the thread from here. I've done all I could. I'm not going against my mother and getting in trouble in all sorts of angles just for this. It sucks, I know, but if we lived in a world where everything worked out then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

What happened to you being supportive? I wasn't even going to call you an adult because to me you don't act like one. You're really going to attempt to put this much on me through the internet. Tough luck, kid. I'm not budging. I did all I could and I'm not breaking the boundaries. I'm already in enough trouble as it is and there's no way one person on the internet is going to make hell out of my life.

"but the snake is going through worse-"

I at least saved Dave. Be grateful for that. One is better than none. Yes, he's in pain but for God's sake is that really my fault? Why must you punish me? I only tried to help.

I'm not calling animal control and that's final. It's easy for you to say that sh!t because you're sitting states or countries away not even feeling what I'm feeling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sallos

Nixon, I responded earlier saying you needed to get involved, but honestly, I think the best move now is to completely detach yourself from the situation.

The animals are important, but you are more so, and this has all of the indicators of a potentially very ugly situation. I completely commend you on your caring for Dave, and all you've done for the other animals still in the :cens0r: care. But this one won't end well for you. What you are attempting to do is the 100% right thing, but at this point, without the support of your parents, it becomes exponentially harder. If they can't be convinced to back your move, then please just walk away from this fight. Do try and convince them to go to the authorities. Pull the "what would you do if this was a puppy or a kitten?" However, if they are adamant that they don't want to cross this guy because he is dangerous - well, there might be a valid reason for it. We out here on the web aren't in a position to judge that. Though, I would ask if he was so dangerous, why do they allow you to visit in the first place? In the end though, it is their house, their rules, and it sounds like they have your safety in mind (good parents). I'd respect their wishes. At the very least, you gave the :cens0r: a wake up call that there is legal jeopardy in what he is doing.


As for the friendship, I'm sorry dude but that is toxic. I've had very few true friends, so I know exactly why you don't want to lose someone you think of as a long term friend. It doesn't work when one person puts in all the effort. I've been there too. She's not really a friend, and you deserve better.

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^ THIS ^

Nixon, I think your last post on the thread is spot-on. Forget certain trolling instigators here. Obviously i have no idea if there is an element of actual danger here. Pursuant to the comment above, seems like your folks wouldn't want you over there in the first place if there was, BUT even if there is not - you could be getting yourself and the rest of your family since you are a minor (emphasis added for instigators, not you) into a huge, ugly, expensive, long, drag-out legal situation. You may be in the right, but you can still be sued. They may not have a case against you, but you'll still need to pay a lawyer. You might be the good-guy of the story, but you will still suffer if it goes in this direction. Dude, you saved a desperate animal, take the win, dont make yourself into a martyr.

Nixon, this is my two cents: step away for a little while. Stop posting and reading, you've heard all the angles and all the opinions. There's a lot on your shoulders right now. Take a break from the forum and other people's opinions and take some time for you, you deserve it!!! Take some time to think, on your own, what is best for you right now. Maybe take a breather and then talk to your mom again, maybe your mind is made up. Right now, I believe some time to think on your own will lead you to what your best plan of action is. And whatever you choose, it's your choice and it's ok.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nixon

You're a real nice person, aren'tcha? You think this is so easy for me? You think life is so carefree that I can just do anything you guys can ask me to do? You can take your opinion, roll it up sideways, and stick it where the sun don't shine. Somebody might as well lock the thread from here. I've done all I could. I'm not going against my mother and getting in trouble in all sorts of angles just for this. It sucks, I know, but if we lived in a world where everything worked out then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

What happened to you being supportive? I wasn't even going to call you an adult because to me you don't act like one. You're really going to attempt to put this much on me through the internet. Tough luck, kid. I'm not budging. I did all I could and I'm not breaking the boundaries. I'm already in enough trouble as it is and there's no way one person on the internet is going to make hell out of my life.

"but the snake is going through worse-"

I at least saved Dave. Be grateful for that. One is better than none. Yes, he's in pain but for God's sake is that really my fault? Why must you punish me? I only tried to help.

I'm not calling animal control and that's final. It's easy for you to say that sh!t because you're sitting states or countries away not even feeling what I'm feeling.

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Oh, I'm not trying to change your mind! It's obviously made up... Just letting you know how I (and I'm sure others) see it buddy :) I never said it was easy, though it's certainly not as hard as you're making it. And I never said it was your fault he was in the position, but now, it IS your fault it's continuing. I was supportive until you decided a life wasn't worth the effort to make a phone call. Oh... and you didn't try ;) You almost tried.

Also feel the need to point this out-- you CHOSE to post this thread, and you were looking to upset and ignite people's temper with it. Well, congrats, you accomplished that, so don't cry when it gets turned on you for basically throwing this situation back in our faces. You shouldn't have posted this in the first place if you didn't plan to do anything about it.

Wait... you did plan to do something? What happened to that idea?:rolleyes:

Yeah, keep rolling out excuses.... they're fun to read ;)

Actually Trisnake, you're not helping at all, and should maybe stop because I think you're getting a bit too emotionally involved in this now.

Nixon, you do the best that you are able to in whatever situation you find yourself it. That's all any of us do. If in the future you look back at whatever choice you end up making and think you made a mistake, well then, it's a lesson learned. None of us can know how a volatile situation is going to play out. For what it's worth, if you call animal control, there should not be any legal repercussions for you. @bcr229 is correct; animal abuse is a crime and you will not get yourself or your family in any legal trouble for reporting it, especially if done anonymously. You won't have any control in what happens to any of the animals after that point, so that I think is going to be the hard part. The authorities could very well euthanize the snakes, or turn them over to a rescue, or take the family at their word that's they're working to fix things and leave it that. You will probably never know, but at this point, without the support of your parents, I don't think you're going to have much ability to do anything more yourself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

Actually Trisnake, you're not helping at all, and should maybe stop because I think you're getting a bit too emotionally involved in this now.

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Honestly, this whole thread was obviously intended to get people emotionally involved. Are the others who furiously ranted about how terrible god awful this step dad is, "oh the things I would do to someone like that" etc, and wanting to set up a gofundme too emotionally involved as well? Or is it only so when it gets negative towards someone present on the forum, and not some no-name nobody? He chose to post on a public forum. He asked for opinions. He got them. I don't care if they're helpful at this point because he's already made his choice.

Awww, a 16 year old is too stressed out, give me a break; welcome to life! Is there any way that this kid could be held at all responsible for seeing the abuse firsthand and NOT reporting it?

Thanks a lot you two. I know I should listen to Craig but this bait, mm. You two are influencing my behavior at the moment, you know this, right? You think I'm just going to bow to you for being a jerk? Use your head if you have one.

I still love how somebody is trying to get me in trouble even though I rescued one of their snakes and still helped the other. (As I said, I sanitized his cage before I left) But to you you're going to say that it's no enough. You're going to say that I started this entire thing to get people angry because I won't do anything. The hell, man? I never started this thread with the thought of animal control in my mind, actually. I was more on board with figuring out what's wrong with him and going from there.

But since the entire family hates me now, that's useless.

And by the way. My mother still as authority over me. This is her house under her rules and yes, I have gone against her before but not today.

I also love how you gave me a negative rep for "abusing an animal and cursing." yeah ok go call peta

Nixon, Nobody else has walked in your shoes, and nobody else has to today or ever. Don't let the negativity influence you, rise above that. You are currently surrounding yourself with negativity (none created by you) both in the "friends" home (although that seems to be at a crossroads, for the better) and also on this forum. From everything I've read on Dave's thread and on this thread, you seem like a pretty amazing kid. I have seen the negativity taking it's toll on you though, your attitude has changed since this thread took a different turn. I can't blame you. Like I said before, you have a lot on your shoulders. I do, however, believe that you will rise above this, learn from the whole thing, and walk away a stronger person who continues to do great things.
Believe me, I would love to see these animals taken from this family and I would love to see some sense literally beaten into this man. Only you know what's best for you and your family right now and I support your decision. Please don't lose your passion, it's a rare gift.
Also, please don't let this situation/thread sour your view of the forum, this really is a great place for us snake lovers, and you belong here.