**GRAPHIC** Reminder to always monitor live feedings!!!

This is a photo I came across. The owner offered a live rat and without witnessing the snake kill that rat, they went to sleep. Warning graphic but it's an important reminder https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...9a&oe=595822DB

... plz no


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This is exactly one of the biggest reasons I stopped feeding live. Jeez, just looking at that makes me sick and sad. I'm gonna go cuddle with Calliope now...


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[emoji27]


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by highqualityballz

This is a photo I came across. The owner offered a live rat and without witnessing the snake kill that rat, they went to sleep. Warning graphic but it's an important reminder https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...9a&oe=595822DB

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I am sorry but there is more to it than not watching a snake while feeding, that what many people would like other to believe and this is why they are pushing the F/T agenda and you are falling right for it.

I have been breeding both snakes and rodents for a decade and I can assure you that responsible live feeding can be done safely and this is not responsible live feeding, not even a always monitor feeding warning.

Rodents don't just attack a snake and shred it to pieces exposing flesh and bones, that happens when a feeder is starved and dehydrated and then left hours or but more often days with a snake, of course no one will admit that, they would rather say "look this what happen when you feed live or don't monitor feeding"

When you feed live th majority of the time If not snatched before hitting the cage floor the feeder will go in a corner, groom itself and fall asleep and has not time to inflict such damage when left 10 to 15 min with a snake.

I wish people would think before posting pictures like that (thinking they help others by doing so) that type of picture always have a back story whether the owner admits it or not.

You don't educate people trying to scare them off with pictures that are not representative.

Crazy when old pictures get shared as new ones smh. But agreed with everything Deborah said, think before posting.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I am sorry but there is more to it than not watching a snake while feeding, that what many people would like other to believe and this is why they are pushing the F/T agenda and you are falling right for it.

I have been breeding both snakes and rodents for a decade and I can assure you that responsible live feeding can be done safely and this is not responsible live feeding, not even a always monitor feeding warning.

Rodents don't just attack a snake and shred it to pieces exposing flesh and bones, that happens when a feeder is starved and dehydrated and then left hours or but more often days with a snake, of course no one will admit that, they would rather say "look this what happen when you feed live or don't monitor feeding"

When you feed live th majority of the time If not snatched before hitting the cage floor the feeder will go in a corner, groom itself and fall asleep and has not time to inflict such damage when left 10 to 15 min with a snake.

I wish people would think before posting pictures like that (thinking they help others by doing so) that type of picture always have a back story whether the owner admits it or not.

You don't educate people trying to scare them off with pictures that are not representative.

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As the owner of a single BP who refuses F/T, I second this from my limited experience. I saw that picture floating around on FB today and immediately thought, time to try F/T again. However, reading Deborah's comment, her experiences have been very similar to mine. The live feeders I buy get put into a small cardboard box, which I place in my T-8 as soon as I get home. I know within five minutes whether Monty is interested or not judging by if he comes out of his hide. There are sometimes where the rat needs to run around the cage a little bit in order to attract the necessary attention. 9 out of ten times the rat hangs out in a corner until Monty strikes or until it is removed. Knowing your animal helps a lot with this. There is a lot more to this story than being put out there.

Ugh, I wish I hadn't seen that...

I know there was a warning and I wish I hadn't clicked on it.

Like Deb said, though, that was not a "overnight" feeding error. I call BS on that. That rat been feasting for a while.

Feeding, just like every other aspect in pet/snake ownership needs to be done responsibly. Whether live, FT, prekilled or whatever. I always cringe when I hear about "stunning" the rodents and such. I know they are food, but really, why torture them.

They should be well fed and watered and treated well, before being fed off. Lessens the chances of them going in "primed" and aggressive. Besides, its the right thing to do. On another forum I read a story on how someone stunned a rat 3 times!!! And it still lived. They said it was "wonky" but since it survived 3 stunnings plus the snake didn't want it, it "earned" life and they were going to just let it live. What the heck. What kind of life is that. Of course its wonky if its skull was near crushed 3 times. Things like this just make me sick. I'm sure that poor rat passed away eventually.

I feed FT because I'm fortunate enough that all mine take that, while its the most economical and easy choice for me as well. If others feed live, because for them it makes more sense, then I have no problem with it. But it needs to be done right.
If accidents happen, then the experienced handlers know how to treat the wounds or they will have the means to have it treated by a vet if it comes to that.

That picture displays no feeding mistake. It displays stupidity and cruelty on the owners part. The snake had to pay, and the rat will die, too. How they could go ahead and take a picture like that, I cannot fathom. Perhaps they should put that in their wallet and look at it each time they are tempted to get another pet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I am sorry but there is more to it than not watching a snake while feeding, that what many people would like other to believe and this is why they are pushing the F/T agenda and you are falling right for it.

I have been breeding both snakes and rodents for a decade and I can assure you that responsible live feeding can be done safely and this is not responsible live feeding, not even a always monitor feeding warning.

Rodents don't just attack a snake and shred it to pieces exposing flesh and bones, that happens when a feeder is starved and dehydrated and then left hours or but more often days with a snake, of course no one will admit that, they would rather say "look this what happen when you feed live or don't monitor feeding"

When you feed live th majority of the time If not snatched before hitting the cage floor the feeder will go in a corner, groom itself and fall asleep and has not time to inflict such damage when left 10 to 15 min with a snake.

I wish people would think before posting pictures like that (thinking they help others by doing so) that type of picture always have a back story whether the owner admits it or not.

You don't educate people trying to scare them off with pictures that are not representative.

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First off I feed live when need be, this was not to scare anyone but to show them the dangers of leaving a live rodent with a snake for a long period of time without supervision. Whether you like it or not there is a risk with feeding live without supervision whether the rodent is happy or not. Again I feed live, f/t, and p/k, I have 0 problems with people feeding live. If you think about it, what if that guy read this post before leaving that rodent with the snake overnight? Could've saved his snake. Nothing wrong with showing people what COULD happen with live feeding if you don't know what your doing!

Of course you shouldn't leave a live rodent with a snake. But I don't think that happened overnight...

But I HAVE seen damage that did happen overnight.

If feeding live, you should always take the time to make sure the rodent was killed and eaten. Once the rodent is grabbed and constricted, you should give the snake privacy. But after some time one should make the rounds and check on everybody.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by highqualityballz

First off I feed live when need be, this was not to scare anyone but to show them the dangers of leaving a live rodent with a snake for a long period of time without supervision. Whether you like it or not there is a risk with feeding live without supervision whether the rodent is happy or not. Again I feed live, f/t, and p/k, I have 0 problems with people feeding live. If you think about it, what if that guy read this post before leaving that rodent with the snake overnight? Could've saved his snake. Nothing wrong with showing people what COULD happen with live feeding if you don't know what your doing!

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Again this is not representative of live feeding only a scare tactic that you are promoting by posting this picture, if you think this is what happen when responsible live feeding is done, time to think again.

You don't leave a starved and dehydrated feeder overnight, that's not live feeding, that's ignorance, lack of common sence, stupidity and neglect.

You are comparing apples and oranges by comparing responsible live feeding and neglect as that's the bottom line.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Again this is not representative of live feeding only a scare tactic that you are promoting by posting this picture, if you think this is what happen when responsible live feeding is done, time to think again.

You don't leave a starved and dehydrated feeder overnight, that's not live feeding, that's ignorance, lack of common sence, stupidity and neglect.

You are comparing apples and oranges by comparing responsible live feeding and neglect as that's the bottom line.

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Exactly I agree, but whether the rat is starved and dehydrated or not it shouldn't be left overnight. That's all I'm saying. Again I have no problems with live feeding as I do it and sometimes it's a must with some snakes, but if it takes a graphic pic to put some sense in the dumb people that throw in a rat and then check again the next day, then so be it.

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Originally Posted by zina10

Of course you shouldn't leave a live rodent with a snake. But I don't think that happened overnight...

But I HAVE seen damage that did happen overnight.

If feeding live, you should always take the time to make sure the rodent was killed and eaten. Once the rodent is grabbed and constricted, you should give the snake privacy. But after some time one should make the rounds and check on everybody.

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That's all I'm saying. Some people won't take this seriously though but given that picture I posted it may be a different story. Leaving a rodent overnight is careless and stupid whether the rodent is well taken care of or not.

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Originally Posted by MidSouthMorphs

Crazy when old pictures get shared as new ones smh. But agreed with everything Deborah said, think before posting.


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Just came across it, didn't know how old it was. Whether it's old or not thats irrelevant. You Never know someone may learn from this, so your opinion means nothing!

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Originally Posted by highqualityballz

Just came across it, didn't know how old it was. Whether it's old or not thats irrelevant. You Never know someone may learn from this, so your opinion means nothing!

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So time is irrelevant but the fact that it is not reflective of live feeding is? Well ok :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by highqualityballz

Just came across it, didn't know how old it was. Whether it's old or not thats irrelevant. You Never know someone may learn from this, so your opinion means nothing!

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Not going to get into an argument here, not the place. But the original post is irrelevant, if this happens to someone's snake, they need to consider never owning a pet again.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

So time is irrelevant but the fact that it is not reflective of live feeding is? Well ok :rolleyes:

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This whole post was about leaving a rodent OVERNIGHT!!!! You keep saying this not reflective of live feeding and I keep telling you I'm talking about leaving a rodent overnight. What part of that do you not understand?

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Originally Posted by highqualityballz

This whole post was about leaving a rodent OVERNIGHT!!!! You keep saying this not reflective of live feeding and I keep telling you I'm talking about leaving a rodent overnight. What part of that do you not understand?

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So you warn people for something no intelligent human being would do?

I guess you have little faith in the people here.


And again you educate people you don't try to scare them off.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

So you warn people for something no intelligent human being would do?

I guess you have little faith in the people here.

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Hahaha. There are a lot of new keepers that visit here and don't know much. Better safe than sorry. My intention was not to scare anyone about live feeding, just trying to show them what can happen if your an idiot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

So you warn people for something no intelligent human being would do?

I guess you have little faith in the people here.

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To be fair this is easily a mistake someone who does not know better could make. I think it is easy to forget that as obsessed with these reptiles are we are that the general public knows only a small amount of information about snakes that is in majority misinformation. I think the OP point was this is what can happen when snakes are fed live rats irresponsibly and your point is that this will not happen if you feed live responsibly. In reality it seems you both agree responsible live feeding is a must.

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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

To be fair this is easily a mistake someone who does not know better could make. I think it is easy to forget that as obsessed with these reptiles are we are that the general public knows only a small amount of information about snakes that is in majority misinformation. I think the OP point was this is what can happen when snakes are fed live rats irresponsibly and your point is that this will not happen if you feed live responsibly. In reality it seems you both agree responsible live feeding is a must.

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Agreed. Thank you!

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Originally Posted by Deborah

So you warn people for something no intelligent human being would do?

I guess you have little faith in the people here.

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TBH there are a LOT of things experienced keepers here believe to be common sense that some owners (usually new) just don't even think about. Things that have "danger bad idea" written all over them may seem perfectly fine to someone who is not familiar with the hazards of their practices. Lots of people
go to the pet store, pick up a rat, drop it in their snakes enclosure as soon as they get home, walk away and never think twice about it. They're not all morons, they just don't know any better. Forums like this are where people learn to know better... even if the picture is an extreme example and obviously took place over an extended period of time, it definitely shows why you shouldn't toss a starved and panicked feeder in an enclosure and go to bed. Even if it probably won't look like that, a dead snake is something you very well may wake up to. People need to know why priming a feeder and supervision during feedings is so important-- full, calm, well cared for feeders are the safest feeders.

Uneducated does not equal unintelligent.

EDIT: AntTheDestroyer beat me to it!

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Originally Posted by Trisnake

TBH there are a LOT of things experienced keepers here believe to be common sense that some owners (usually new) just don't even think about. Things that have "danger bad idea" written all over them may seem perfectly fine to someone who is not familiar with the hazards of their practices. Lots of people
go to the pet store, pick up a rat, drop it in their snakes enclosure as soon as they get home, walk away and never think twice about it. They're not all morons, they just don't know any better. Forums like this are where people learn to know better... even if the picture is an extreme example and obviously took place over an extended period of time, it definitely shows why you shouldn't toss a starved and panicked feeder in an enclosure and go to bed. Even if it probably won't look like that, a dead snake is something you very well may wake up to. People need to know why priming a feeder and supervision during feedings is so important-- full, calm, well cared for feeders are the safest feeders.

Uneducated does not equal unintelligent.

EDIT: AntTheDestroyer beat me to it!

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Exactly!

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Originally Posted by zina10

But after some time one should make the rounds and check on everybody.

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This. I feed live. I do so because it is convenient for me. I also have several that simply refuse f/t and I do not wish to feed both. Not two weeks ago I put a rat in with my female black pastel. Watched her hit and coil. Put her tub back. Continued feeding. Ten minutes later I checked to see who had eaten to remove any live feeders. And the rat in with the black pastel was alive, if a bit ruffled. Now I saw her strike and coil. For some reason she let go. But she ate perfectly normal next feeding. As long as you are mindful you will not have any problem feeding live

We had a ball python come into the vet hospital where I used to work because an owner left the rat in overnight. There were several superficial areas of skin loss, and one hole that went right into the coelomic cavity of the snake. We had to anesthetize her and sew adjacent ribs together in order to close the hole. One of the other techs ended up adopting her from that person. So bad wounds do happen from rats being left overnight, which also happens.

Also, live feeding when the snake is blind can lead to instant issues, like my rat snake that I took on who was bit into the sinus cavities in the face and had a major infection because the owner only ever fed live. She never left the rats in with him, but because he couldn't see he was being constantly bit by his prey after striking and coiling.

So, live feeding can be done in a way to minimize risk, but even watching a snake can't prevent an injury if a bad strike occurs. Most of the time those bites will be harmless. Sometimes they can be severe. It's something you have to be prepared for and accepting of if you feed live.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here...
I can see the points from both sides here, but in this case I can't see any reason the OP was wrong in posting as a warning or educational tool. Let's be honest, plenty of questions come up on this forum that many of us shake our heads at, roll our eyes at, and probably lose a little faith in humanity when we read them. Some people just don't know any better. Sometimes it is plain stupidity or ignorance, sometimes it is somebody wanting to know how far they can push boundaries without "serious" consequences, sometimes they simply don't know any better due to a lack of education on the topic. You often hear the saying that "no question is a stupid question", and as long as the person asking has a genuine desire to learn, I agree.
....so, I see no harm in the OP starting this thread, as an educational tool for newbies. Who knows, there may be somebody out there who has the mindset that snakes eat live rats in nature, they cohabitate, so why can't they ''cohabitate" within the enclosure until the snake decides it's time to eat it? Maybe somebody who works a night shift stopped by the local pet store to grab a feeder rat while out running errands during the day, drops the rat in the enclosure and heads to work, figuring "the snake is nocturnal by nature, so it'll eat tonight while I'm at work". By the end of an 8+ hour shift, a lot of damage may have been inflicted on the snake (obviously not to the degree in the OPs pic)....
Maybe this thread prevents that?

Like I started with, I'm playing devil's advocate here, but I can certainly see why the OP felt the need to share here.
However, it could have been worded better and elaborated on before people started throwing digs at one another....

This is another case of the internet making someone's ignorance famous.

In a time where it is way too easy to research everything I cannot believe how stupid people can still be.

[QUOTE=Spiritserpents;2521112
.

So, live feeding can be done in a way to minimize risk, but even watching a snake can't prevent an injury if a bad strike occurs. Most of the time those bites will be harmless. Sometimes they can be severe. It's something you have to be prepared for and accepting of if you feed live.[/QUOTE]

I've always wondered about that , I see these people who claim to watch intently whilst the rat is still in there but if the rat bites the snake in the eye how can the owner react in time as its already too late !?

Also how do those who have big collections who are LIVE feeding 30 , 50 or hundreds .. are they really ABLE to make sure every rat gets eaten ??


Just things that puzzle me somewhat never having done LIVE feeding .


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If you buy your mice, not breed them, you won't know if the mouse has been eating or not. If you do happen to pick up a mouse that hasn't been eating, and leave it unattended with the snake, this is something that could happen. I used to feed live, and I made sure to watch and see Calliope actually kill the rodent before leaving her unattended with it. I know that rodents won't instantly just start eating and picking away at the flesh and muscles of the snake, but you don't know the mouse's back story if you buy it therefore you shouldn't leave it unattended for an extended period of time. This won't happen every time but it can happen. If you breed your own rodents and know the feeder had been eating well, then you're a lot more safe, but I myself wouldn't leave the live rodent alone unattended. Just be careful when you know nothing about the rodent, be responsible, that's all it really takes. I didn't switch to f/t just because of rodent injuries to snakes, I know that can happen, but it was also because of financial reasons. I still feed love from time to time too, I'm just really careful when I do it, and I think that's the message of this post. Just be careful.


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Soooo it's well documented that I'm against LIVE feeding just because it's something I could never actually do .... I'm the guy who picks up worms in the rain so they don't get tread on .

It's also simply not accepted over here in the UK .

The MAIN thing that kinda baffles me about all this LIVE feeding stuff is WHY do it in the first place - especially as it takes so much longer and has risks involved !??

I can kinda understand it if you're feeding 20+ at a time like me which costs a fortune and by feeding LIVE you can save a lot of money ...but that doesn't apply to most in here really ....


Also I keep reading about these snakes who will NOT eat thawed and it's kinda accepted that some won't eat thawed and they have to be fed LIVE ... it's been mentioned a couple of times in this very thread . See I don't understand why we don't have this problem in the UK , I've had about a hundred snakes over the years including Corns , Kings , Retics , Burms , Garters , Boas , even the shy ones like Sand Boas , Cape Files , Trans Pecos and loads of Royals / Ball pythons and not one single snake has EVER refused to eat thawed frozen mice / rats ...

Sure you get the odd one who goes off the food for a few weeks during the breeding season like my adult Corn snake is doing currently and the odd Royal who simply stops eating for a month or so but they always end up eating thawed rodents , no problems at all ..

I get the different culture thing and that LIVE feeding is accepted and is even considered the norm but that doesn't explain why the UK doesn't have all these snakes who don't eat thawed !?!?


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This is a silly argument. Most of us have had to at least feed live at some point. I don't think there is an agenda. It is sad, but throughout the years I have learned there can be no limit to the stupidity and gullibility of some people. How many burns have we seen on here??? Graphic picture showing what a burnt snake looks like, great. Half eaten snake, great. A picture is worth a thousand words and if it saves one animal from the ignorance of a keeper it is worth it.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I am sorry but there is more to it than not watching a snake while feeding, that what many people would like other to believe and this is why they are pushing the F/T agenda and you are falling right for it.

I have been breeding both snakes and rodents for a decade and I can assure you that responsible live feeding can be done safely and this is not responsible live feeding, not even a always monitor feeding warning.

Rodents don't just attack a snake and shred it to pieces exposing flesh and bones, that happens when a feeder is starved and dehydrated and then left hours or but more often days with a snake, of course no one will admit that, they would rather say "look this what happen when you feed live or don't monitor feeding"

When you feed live th majority of the time If not snatched before hitting the cage floor the feeder will go in a corner, groom itself and fall asleep and has not time to inflict such damage when left 10 to 15 min with a snake.

I wish people would think before posting pictures like that (thinking they help others by doing so) that type of picture always have a back story whether the owner admits it or not.

You don't educate people trying to scare them off with pictures that are not representative.

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Thank You.... Its as bad as that picture posted over and over of the Ball Python cut open with another Ball Python inside it. People post it telling people not to cohabitate when the picture was not from cannibalism of snakes living together at all. Nonsense.


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On another note, if a snake doesn't take prey after 10 min when monitoring live feedings you take it out...
I almost wonder if this Photo is a setup..maybe a "rat eats the snake" reversal.
Like has been said over and over every time this pic gets posted, that doesn't happen in couple hours!!!


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Sully

On another note, if a snake doesn't take prey after 10 min when monitoring live feedings you take it out...
I almost wonder if this Photo is a setup..maybe a "rat eats the snake" reversal.
Like has been said over and over every time this pic gets posted, that doesn't happen in couple hours!!!


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And as I said over and over and over , I am talking about OVERNIGHT not a couple hours!

I think the issue with pictures such as that, is that the actual "message" gets lost in the sensationalism.

I'm going so far to say, that whoever let this happen AND took the picture did not intend that picture to be "educational". It's more about the "shock" and "ew" factor. The fact that pictures such as that spread like wildfire. They do very little to actually "teach" anything.

That said, I'm SURE the Original Poster (in our forum) only meant to post this as a warning and did not have any other motives. But I really, really question the motives of whoever took and shared that picture originally.

Its like this. We "could" put pictures of dead children that were "forgotten" in cars and overheated. Would it be shocking? Yes. Upsetting? Yes. Would it actually prevent that from happening again and again? I doubt it seriously. In theory you would think so. But the entire "shock" factor is why the pictures would circulate. People have to look, even at gruesome stuff. The whole fascination with ghoulish images. If they are bad enough, there is no message, there is no learning. There is just "shock and awe".

Granted, a Ball Python is not a human baby. But us reptile people do care about these animals. This picture is upsetting, shocking and really terrible. Not something that is easy to look at. And I doubt that it is sending the "right" message to any of those keepers that simply are to lazy or to un-caring to do things the right way.

So in my opinion, the intention of highqualityballz was good. No doubt in my mind whatsoever.

But pictures such as that do not truly educate or teach anything, also in my humble opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

I think the issue with pictures such as that, is that the actual "message" gets lost in the sensationalism.

I'm going so far to say, that whoever let this happen AND took the picture did not intend that picture to be "educational". It's more about the "shock" and "ew" factor. The fact that pictures such as that spread like wildfire. They do very little to actually "teach" anything.

That said, I'm SURE the Original Poster (in our forum) only meant to post this as a warning and did not have any other motives. But I really, really question the motives of whoever took and shared that picture originally.

Its like this. We "could" put pictures of dead children that were "forgotten" in cars and overheated. Would it be shocking? Yes. Upsetting? Yes. Would it actually prevent that from happening again and again? I doubt it seriously. In theory you would think so. But the entire "shock" factor is why the pictures would circulate. People have to look, even at gruesome stuff. The whole fascination with ghoulish images. If they are bad enough, there is no message, there is no learning. There is just "shock and awe".

Granted, a Ball Python is not a human baby. But us reptile people do care about these animals. This picture is upsetting, shocking and really terrible. Not something that is easy to look at. And I doubt that it is sending the "right" message to any of those keepers that simply are to lazy or to un-caring to do things the right way.

So in my opinion, the intention of highqualityballz was good. No doubt in my mind whatsoever.

But pictures such as that do not truly educate or teach anything, also in my humble opinion.

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I agree the person who took the picture most likelikely didn't do it to educate anyone. But I think that the picture can open a lot of people eyes to taking it more seriously. You can tell people what can happen and it can easily go through one ear out the other, but I think with this picture there is a better chance of that not happening. I know the picture is beyond graphic and I looked it once and got chills and never looked at it again. Again I'll say for the 1000th time I feed live on occasion too and am in NO way against it!

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Originally Posted by zina10

I think the issue with pictures such as that, is that the actual "message" gets lost in the sensationalism.

I'm going so far to say, that whoever let this happen AND took the picture did not intend that picture to be "educational". It's more about the "shock" and "ew" factor. The fact that pictures such as that spread like wildfire. They do very little to actually "teach" anything.

That said, I'm SURE the Original Poster (in our forum) only meant to post this as a warning and did not have any other motives. But I really, really question the motives of whoever took and shared that picture originally.

Its like this. We "could" put pictures of dead children that were "forgotten" in cars and overheated. Would it be shocking? Yes. Upsetting? Yes. Would it actually prevent that from happening again and again? I doubt it seriously. In theory you would think so. But the entire "shock" factor is why the pictures would circulate. People have to look, even at gruesome stuff. The whole fascination with ghoulish images. If they are bad enough, there is no message, there is no learning. There is just "shock and awe".

Granted, a Ball Python is not a human baby. But us reptile people do care about these animals. This picture is upsetting, shocking and really terrible. Not something that is easy to look at. And I doubt that it is sending the "right" message to any of those keepers that simply are to lazy or to un-caring to do things the right way.

So in my opinion, the intention of highqualityballz was good. No doubt in my mind whatsoever.

But pictures such as that do not truly educate or teach anything, also in my humble opinion.

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I disagree, people should know the consequences of irresponsibility when feeding live and this shows that perfectly. The original intent of the photo taker is immaterial as the OP placed it here with a pretty clear intent. I have seen this pictured posted several times now, mostly as non live feeding propaganda. In this case it was posted as a reasonable point that you need to be careful when feeding live. Which situation is more accurate and helpful?

Just to counter point your shocking images rant how much money do you think aspca or child hunger campaigns bring in by posting sad starving animals/children? It is by no means a small amount. I see these type of photos as reality and think it is good we do not ignore the consequences of our actions or future actions. I think it is easy to say a snake is a predator and it will easily take care of its prey, but in nature this is not always true. Usually the snake wins, but sometimes the rat wins.

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Originally Posted by highqualityballz

And as I said over and over and over , I am talking about OVERNIGHT not a couple hours!

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I wasn't replying to you personally thats why I didnt TAG your Thread Post in my reply. I was commenting to all about this Viral Photo that has been going around for a long time just like other ones have... Its like saying all Burmese Pythons will eat your kids just because 1 did in Florida under terrible unfortunate humane error.



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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

I disagree, people should know the consequences of irresponsibility when feeding live and this shows that perfectly. The original intent of the photo taker is immaterial as the OP placed it here with a pretty clear intent. I have seen this pictured posted several times now, mostly as non live feeding propaganda. In this case it was posted as a reasonable point that you need to be careful when feeding live. Which situation is more accurate and helpful?

Just to counter point your shocking images rant how much money do you think aspic or child hunger campaigns bring in by posting sad starving animals/children? It is by no means a small amount. I see these type of photos as reality and think it is good we do not ignore the consequences of our actions or future actions. I think it is easy to say a snake is a predator and it will easily take care of its prey, but in nature this is not always true. Usually the snake wins, but sometimes the rat wins.

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You know it is perfectly alright to have different opinions and to disagree.

Nowhere did I "rant". But I guess that too can be disagreed upon.

By the way, there would be a difference between pictures of starving children (that can be helped) and pictures of dead, dismembered and ripped to pieces children.

I drive basically the same 45 mile commute each way to and from work. Every day I see at least one accident during those drives. Every day traffic slows down to stare until just clear of the accident site and then it's green light racing again. The same thing happens every day. People slow, stare, and go right on with their day thinking it could never happen to them. Every day this happens. Every day. Until it happens to them, the lesson that could be learned isn't as strong as the desire to stop, stare, be "entertained" for a moment, and get on with their day. That's just how this game works.

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Originally Posted by zina10

You know it is perfectly alright to have different opinions and to disagree.

Nowhere did I "rant". But I guess that too can be disagreed upon.

By the way, there would be a difference between pictures of starving children (that can be helped) and pictures of dead, dismembered and ripped to pieces children.

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I apologize if that came off as more than just a difference of opinion. I think rant was a bad choice of word. There is a difference between dismembered children and a dismembered snake as well.

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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

I apologize if that came off as more than just a difference of opinion. I think rant was a bad choice of word. There is a difference between dismembered children and a dismembered snake as well.

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Absolutely!!!

And that is why I said that snakes aren't human babies, and that this was just meant to be an example why "shocking" images are rarely learning tools. In my opinion. Because of human nature..

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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

I disagree, people should know the consequences of irresponsibility when feeding live and this shows that perfectly. The original intent of the photo taker is immaterial as the OP placed it here with a pretty clear intent. I have seen this pictured posted several times now, mostly as non live feeding propaganda. In this case it was posted as a reasonable point that you need to be careful when feeding live. Which situation is more accurate and helpful?

Just to counter point your shocking images rant how much money do you think aspca or child hunger campaigns bring in by posting sad starving animals/children? It is by no means a small amount. I see these type of photos as reality and think it is good we do not ignore the consequences of our actions or future actions. I think it is easy to say a snake is a predator and it will easily take care of its prey, but in nature this is not always true. Usually the snake wins, but sometimes the rat wins.

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While I may not agree with how this was said, my experience says Ant is 100% correct. Pictures, not matter their original intent, do work and can be used for good or evil to sway peoples decision making. If this was not the case there would not be so many news organizations that are clearly slanted in one direction or another and so many people that buy into the BS regardless of what the facts really are.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

I drive basically the same 45 mile commute each way to and from work. Every day I see at least one accident during those drives. Every day traffic slows down to stare until just clear of the accident site and then it's green light racing again. The same thing happens every day. People slow, stare, and go right on with their day thinking it could never happen to them. Every day this happens. Every day. Until it happens to them, the lesson that could be learned isn't as strong as the desire to stop, stare, be "entertained" for a moment, and get on with their day. That's just how this game works.

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This is not the same thing. This is an example of people believing something only happens to other people. You want people to be careful with guns? Show them what can happen if you are not. Worked for my kids. Same thing goes for playing with matches. Show a burn victim. Working in a morgue seemed to convince my friend he should not drink and drive any more. Not a picture, but same idea.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

This is not the same thing. This is an example of people believing something only happens to other people. You want people to be careful with guns? Show them what can happen if you are not. Worked for my kids. Same thing goes for playing with matches. Show a burn victim. Working in a morgue seemed to convince my friend he should not drink and drive any more. Not a picture, but same idea.

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Want people to be careful while driving? Show them what happens when they are not. What's not the same?

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Want people to be careful while driving? Show them what happens when they are not. What's not the same?

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When you "have" to do something your brain finds ways to make it easier. As far as accidents go it sometimes does not matter how safe you are if someone else is not. I am scared to death of heights. I have seen what happens when something goes wrong but I managed to jump out of the plane every time. My brain made it fun. It was a necessity of my job and the failed chute was always someone else. Could never happen to me. If the brain did not work this way, no one would ever drive to work or leave the house for that matter.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

...if someone else is not.

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Those "someone else's" drive the same roads everyday too. What did they learn by rubbernecking those same accidents?

OK, here's the thing. Regardless of how any of us feel about this picture and its ability to change behaviors, here is the biggest reason I personally have a problem with it: It's one thing to grab someone's attention, but it's quite another thing when that kind of attention becomes "bad for the brand". These kinds of pictures are horrific for the reputation of the snake keeping hobby. Not all publicity is good publicity, and it's a shame that these are the pictures that go viral more often than not. Never assume that your message is only going to be seen by your target audience.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Those "someone else's" drive the same roads everyday too. What did they learn by rubbernecking those same accidents?

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Probably nothing if all they see are banged up vehicles and at the worst a sheet over a body. If we are going to continue to stray further from the topic, I know a guy who witnessed a motorcyclist get killed by an on coming truck. He was first on the scene and saw all the gruesome aspects of which I will spare you all. He listed his motorcycle for sale the next day.

Well, driving drunk is not a "necessity", like driving itself.

Yet it happens ALL THE TIME.

Texting while driving is not a necessity. Again, happens all over and all of the time.

Some of the offenders are young people that most certainly have come across the typical "scare tactics" during their education at school. The typical gruesome pictures, the visits to the morgue. Yet, they still do it. The human brain has a great mechanism of "blocking out" negative information.
The adults that do it. They know better as well. I think everybody has seen the pictures of wrecks, or dead people, thanks to drunk driving, texting during driving or even smoking during driving. Yet people do it all the time. I dare say everyone in here has done something like this at one time or another, fully aware of the possible consequences.

Children are being taught not to go with strangers. Some are being taught with scare tactics. Scary pictures. Scary stories. There has been a study out there where they tested children. Most went with the stranger, if only to see puppies. The children who were actually taught in a positive way, appealing to their "good sense" praising them for remembering reasons, giving them incentive and positive feedback to do the right thing fared FAR better!!

I can't find the study right now, but it has been established that scare tactics really do not work that well for educational purposes.

On the contrary, positive experiences and teaching tools work great. Offering help, not berating for mistakes, praising effort. All this has a long lasting effect. It wakens the desire to do better.

I do agree...a picture is worth a thousand words. In many ways.

But certain images such as the one posted don't have much of any true positive effect and not much of a educational one. I don't even think they were intended for that. Pictures such as that are usually abused for some agenda or other.

Opinions will always vary. Points differ. I think we can all argue all this till the cows come home and in the end, there will still be disagreement.

Most important is to remember that we are all here for the love of our animals, so we can get past not agreeing on everything ;)