Fake plants vs Live cage setup: Discuss!

Brand new to this forum, we've had our baby ball python for just over a month now. We bought just a basic cage set up from PetCo with an additional fake log for him (her? we don't know yet) to bask on under the day time bulb. Also a bigger water dish because those basic set up's one was TINY! We took the store's advice and are using the aspen pine substrate. My husband and I have been debating back and forth on whether to complete the cage set up continuing to use fake decorations or whether to completely re-do the cage as a living terrarium. While he has had some experience with reptiles and their care when he was younger, neither of us have kept snakes. We both work some pretty long hours (tho we do make time to handle our little guy/girl every day to acclimate our snake to being held) so we don't want something that's going to take lots and lots of time to maintain. Also, most recently my husband bought two small anoles as tank mates for Mr. Slithers (big Simpsons show fans, don't ask lol).

Please take a look at this caresheet. Petco's recommendations are questionable at best.

Hello and congrats on your new little snake.

You mention your substrate is aspen/pine bedding. These are two separate things. You definitely do not want to use anything made from pine. I understand the oils from that wood is dangerous to the snake. Cypress and Aspen are both good choices. I actually use brown kraft paper I get from Uline. Very thick quality paper and easy to notice any debris in the cage. Keeping things clean is very important.

About live plants - you will find its best to keep things in the cage that can be thoroughly cleaned on a regular basis.

About tank mates - this is definitely not recommended. I would remove the anoles you've added. You don't want to stress out your snake unnecessarily.

Ball pythons are very much a hiding kind of animal... They also don't need lighting.

Switch out the day time bulb for a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) or an undertank heater, unless you already have those.

Get a thermostat for the CHE or UTH (not a thermometer).

And add two secure hides, such as these. http://www.reptilebasics.com/small-hide-box The fake log is supposed to provide as a hide, but it is a poor one... most ball pythons still feel stressed with just a fake log hide and no other hides.

Buy a humidity monitor (Acurite on amazon, $10)

And please take a serious read through that caresheet Jodan posted!

You should actually be avoiding handling your ball python to minimize stress, until it takes at least 1 or 2 meals for you. No worries about acclimating ball pythons to human touch for now, as they are a naturally docile species. Even if you don't touch your ball python for a month, it will stay the same as before.

They should be kept in an enclosure alone- they are a solitary species, and tank mates will stress them out.

And please do research online about ball pythons (this forum has many resources), rather than asking petco for advice. 99% of the time, it is poor advice, because the employees have no experience owning snakes.

I love the bio-active planted approach but I'd recommend getting the basic husbandry down first. I would hold off on decorations, keep it super simple. I would not add tank mates. it's a good idea to have two identicle hides at either end of the thermo cline and a water dish and maybe just paper towels to begin with. make sure you don't have mites before switching to a planted tank, they are very common and invisible in 4 of their 5 life stages. treating mites in a planted tank is best done by removing the snake long enough to break the reproduction cycle of mites without having to use a pesticide like PAM, this requires having a way to set up a back up enclosure. I'd set the planted tank up separately and get it humming along nicely on it's own with the idea of keeping the simple set up for later in case you need to quarantine. a lot of folks on here advocate for simple, cheap plastic tubs with heat tape underneath and they work well. that might be a good set up for you to start your planted set up and get everything dialed in in a display tank. if a problem arrises with the snake, it's much easier to figure out a solution with fewer variables. Once a planted tank is set up, it really is beautiful and often lower maintenance in the long run, first and foremost though, you need to do what is best for the snake.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Please take a look at this caresheet. Petco's recommendations are questionable at best.

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I would also suggest this. Considering you are new to snakes I would make sure you fully understand and are able to provide proper husbandry before you worry about creating a bioactive terrarium. Also, ball pythons are not sociable and do not need "tank mates" and those two being in there might stress the snake out. There is also the risk of one animal getting sick and getting g the others sick. Cohabitation is a no go for these snakes, whether it's with snakes or any other reptile. I would get the anoles their own enclosure.

Okay, so first thing first: double check your set up against the glass tank set up guide sticky. Pet stores are notorious for giving terrible husbandry information. A bigger water bowl is better, but you will want at least two ENCLOSED hides, one at either end of the enclosure so the snake can thermoregulate and feel secure while doing so. Ball pythons are terrestrial and do not tend to be basking type snakes. They live their lives under ground in burrows so giving it something to sit on is next near to useless. Those half log things are great for making them little tunnels to move through though!

Aspen works for me, but I keep my snakes in tubs that don't leak humidity the way tanks tend to. Overhead heating with daylight bulbs and CHEs tend to also sap moisture, so make sure you have an accurate hygrometer to measure your humidity. If the pet store sold you stick on dial ones, throw them out and go get a basic digital one from Wal-Mart.

Finally to you actual question: you don't have to go full bioactive planted terrarium to have a planted tank. A lot of places make nice, natural looking planters for reptile cages that look like stumps or rocks and you can put potted plants in them. I like the look better, personally, but be aware the full grown ball pythons are heavy bodied snakes and they will be tough on plants!

We kept the small plastic hide that came with the basic set up we bought, as well as buying the log. One are set up on each side of the tank. He hangs out in the interior of the log with his head poking out of one of the 4 holes in it A LOT. The CHE we will look into getting. As for the humidity and temp we already had it regulated according to averages based off of about 15 websites we read up on before we ever bought the snake, temp average of about 82-85 day and night and humidity about 50-60%. Although we are new, we didn't buy the snake without doing a bit of research into it before hand. My apologies on the mis-type, the Aspen is what we are using for substrate. The snake regularly feeds on Mondays, and when missed one feed took a thawed mouse that Thursday. As for the anoles, they are on their way into their own tank.

Thanks for the advice on bio vs fake Lizardlicks and SlitherSeeker. Very helpful!

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Originally Posted by HissingSnake

We kept the small plastic hide that came with the basic set up we bought, as well as buying the log. One are set up on each side of the tank. He hangs out in the interior of the log with his head poking out of one of the 4 holes in it A LOT. The CHE we will look into getting. As for the humidity and temp we already had it regulated according to averages based off of about 15 websites we read up on before we ever bought the snake, temp average of about 82-85 day and night and humidity about 50-60%. Although we are new, we didn't buy the snake without doing a bit of research into it before hand. My apologies on the mis-type, the Aspen is what we are using for substrate. The snake regularly feeds on Mondays, and when missed one feed took a thawed mouse that Thursday. As for the anoles, they are on their way into their own tank.

Thanks for the advice on bio vs fake Lizardlicks and SlitherSeeker. Very helpful!

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Good to hear!! Wasn't trying to be unhelpful... That still took a few minutes for me to type. LOL! There are just a lot of new owners who only take advice from petcos and don't have correct setups, and as there wasn't much info in the first post except for tank mates and petcos, we jumped to caresheets and setup. :P

I was over the the gallery section trying to get pictures up, but apparently my phone's pictures are too large to upload! I've just been looking all over the place to find the pros and cons of living terrariums since the option was brought to my attention but there is surprisingly little info readily available. I know I can keep our Mr Slithers in a super simple tank and he's be just as happy with it, but I want a pretty tank. lol. And I don't want to go out and spend a bunch of money on a fake plant set up to find out that a living set up is cheaper and easier to maintain. Fortunately it doesn't really sound like it. The idea of making it easier for bacteria to propagate in the tank is a seriously major con to me. Also being able to hide mites easier. So looks like it might be a no go on that idea.

Thank you for the info!!

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Originally Posted by HissingSnake

I was over the the gallery section trying to get pictures up, but apparently my phone's pictures are too large to upload! I've just been looking all over the place to find the pros and cons of living terrariums since the option was brought to my attention but there is surprisingly little info readily available. I know I can keep our Mr Slithers in a super simple tank and he's be just as happy with it, but I want a pretty tank. lol. And I don't want to go out and spend a bunch of money on a fake plant set up to find out that a living set up is cheaper and easier to maintain. Fortunately it doesn't really sound like it. The idea of making it easier for bacteria to propagate in the tank is a seriously major con to me. Also being able to hide mites easier. So looks like it might be a no go on that idea.

Thank you for the info!!

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If you were keeping a corn or something I would say it might be worth it. With balls, they don't move much but when they do they can be like bulldozers so all that hard work would just be destroyed by the animals. The lizards however would be a very good candidates for a bio-active setup.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

The lizards however would be a very good candidates for a bio-active setup.

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Now that's a very interesting idea.... Thanks!!

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

Wasn't trying to be unhelpful...

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Also I didn't want it to sound like I thought everyone else who chipped in with other information about taking care of our snake was being unhelpful. Of course you are going to want to steer someone new in the right direction if you don't know they are already. There are just a BOATLOAD of information sites out there dedicated to helping people get started, but I seriously couldn't find anything about whether or not live tanks were a good idea with pythons. Of course Jordan's response of them just bulldozing over live plants is yet another con against the set up.

There are some plants that can tough it out like certain ivies and the woodier, sturdier stuff, but they don't look very nice imo.

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Originally Posted by HissingSnake

Also I didn't want it to sound like I thought everyone else who chipped in with other information about taking care of our snake was being unhelpful. Of course you are going to want to steer someone new in the right direction if you don't know they are already. There are just a BOATLOAD of information sites out there dedicated to helping people get started, but I seriously couldn't find anything about whether or not live tanks were a good idea with pythons. Of course Jordan's response of them just bulldozing over live plants is yet another con against the set up.

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one thing to consider is that a what is appropriate for a BP at a young age may not work later but you are going to move them anyway. I'm working on a 40 gallon breeder. currently it has a baby red foot tortoise in it, also a bull dozer in the long run but it will be transfered to an outside pen at some point. I will be planting that tank with the tortoise in it, with plants out of its reach, then moving in a BP once the tortoise gets transfered out. the BP will be there for a while and I'll see how it goes, once it outgrows the enclosure it will move on to a bigger tank and I will continue planting the 40 breeder with dart frogs in mind. I think it's best to think about enclosures as a bit more "fluid", over time they have multiple purposes. at this point I don't see a full grown BP being a good candidate for a planted tank, but I'm going to play it by ear.