Bob's tale: From emaciation to merely skinny

I purchased (not rescued. I know she's not a rescue.) Bob on 1/19/17 from Petsmart after watching her deteriorate in their care over several weeks. The day I bought her I honestly thought she had died in the cage. She was flat, wrinkled to hell, and emaciated to a degree I'd never seen in a pet store before. I was already having an emotionally draining week and vet-tech-me could not stand to walk away from an animal that I might be able to save. So for far too much money I purchased this (I think) single gene pastel and the rehabbing began.

Bob's main issues appear to have stemmed from inadequate humidity, a too-exposed cage, and being moved to a separate location to eat. So I set her up in a small plastic tub with a hide, foliage, a large water bowl and cypress mulch. Humidity was a bit extreme, but she was *so* dehydrated I felt going overboard for a while was appropriate.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2%2FNj2fuc.jpg

She ate a live hopper mouse the night I brought her home, and another 5 days later. These first photos are taken a couple days after that second hopper. She's already better hydrated here, so you can imagine how she looked when I bought her. She was about 50 grams when I brought her home.

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A month, and a patchy shed later, Bob was weighing 66 grams empty. After those two live hoppers I felt they were too small and offered her a f/t weanling mouse. She took it just fine and has been on that since.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...4%2F3V7R72.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...4%2FYkIAip.jpg

I love her flames. :D

And then finally, yesterday and almost exactly 2 months since I got her, Bob shed again (complete this time!) and weighed in at 84 grams.

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those first pictures break my heart, but she's lucky you found her. way to go!!!

Bob is gorgeous and I'm sure very grateful for the care. People can say what they want about precipitating the demand cycle that is the large chain pet store - sometimes we have to do the right thing. Awesome job :)

Well, I figured that they were just going to replace her with another one if she died anyway so I could either see them with a dead snake and a new snake, or I could try to get this snake to live and them have a new snake.

They *did* alter the cage a bit with some of my suggestions so that the humidity is a bit better. It's scary how uneducated even the manager was. They did not realise that this snake was dying. They had her 6 weeks and she ate twice. Once the first week, and then force-fed 4 weeks later when I first pointed out that she was skinny as hell. There's no way she got in that shape in just 6 weeks so she must have come already underweight from the supplier. Hopefully now that they know what unhealthy looks like they'll take them to the vet. But I won't be holding my breath.

Great job rehabing this little beauty! Those first two pics are extremely cringy; glad you could bring Bob around! :gj:

I can't say I agree with you buying the animal, but I will commend you on your efforts. A very great improvement. I think if I ever saw one that bad off, the manager and I might have had to have a little discussion. If that didn't work a call to the home office. The step after that would have been the humane society. If a store can't take care of an animal they should not be able to sell it.

I tried having a discussion. They wanted to take it to the vet, but she wasn't sick. And they weren't going to lower the price even after I told them that this snake was going to be dead in a week or two at most. They were simply going to replace her with another snake so the options were dead snake + new snake, or live snake + new snake. And after having 4 of my favorite animals at the shelter have to be euthanised for medical issues that week, I couldn't handle a death that I could prevent. The ASPCA and/or animal control would also have done just about nothing, because she's a snake and because the store would have simply taken her to the vet. Taking the time to do without bringing her home would have resulted in a dead snake.

This is why I said I did not rescue her. Because she's not a rescue. But she is alive, and the store did make some minor positive changes to the habitat after I called corporate. They also loved the idea of weighing the snakes before they ate so they that way if a snake is losing weight they can take it to the vet or keep it in the back to reduce its stress levels for a while.

I am not coming down on you. Just trying to show the bigger picture. Would you rather "save" one and let 50 die or let one die and save 50? Providing everything you are saying is true I would bet you can get your money back and improve life for the rest of the animals that are stuck in these conditions. You just have to put up a big enough stink and make them realize you did them a favor by taking the animal. If any of the breeders on this board ever let an animal go that looked like that it would not go well for their business. Word would get out fast. It shouldn't be any different for a chain pet store.

Over all a net gain if you can get them to make positive changes. You might not have"rescued" this one, but if they step up their husbandry, you sure may have saved quite a few others. I would bring back pictures of the now much healthier snake and keep showing them what to do. That way they can see you know what you're talking about.

I "rescued" mine from petsmart, he had been there for a long time and no one would buy him, he wasn't in that bad of shape but that's bc I was working there at the time and made sure he was getting what he needed, even if I had to go against policy. It's a very sad place!!!! I'm glad that he and I both are no longer there, I have had him almost two years now and we are both a lot happier......even though they will get another one and the same thing will happen, I send you kudos for helping this one [emoji1374][emoji1374]


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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I am not coming down on you. Just trying to show the bigger picture. Would you rather "save" one and let 50 die or let one die and save 50? Providing everything you are saying is true I would bet you can get your money back and improve life for the rest of the animals that are stuck in these conditions. You just have to put up a big enough stink and make them realize you did them a favor by taking the animal. If any of the breeders on this board ever let an animal go that looked like that it would not go well for their business. Word would get out fast. It shouldn't be any different for a chain pet store.

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Please understand. I am a vet tech so I'm intimately aware of the idea that I can't save them all. But I can save the one in front of me, and maybe help the others. If I had let Bob die, nothing would have changed. So it wasn't save one and let 50 die. It would have been save none, let 51 die. I didn't make a stink against petsmart itself, because I didn't want them to be shut down to my suggestions. I'm quite certain this snake came from the supplier in already poor condition, because you don't reach skeletal in 6 weeks when you've also had two feeds if you start a healthy weight snake. A non-feeder corn that's gone 6 weeks with NO food at all since hatching wouldn't look in as bad condition. So because I emphasized that I didn't want anyone at the store to get in trouble, that I did not consider them at fault, that I was certain the supplier gave them an already underweight snake, the manager was extremely open to suggestions on how to improve. There's only so much she can do when having to keep to store policy but small positive changes were made. And by owning Bob, I was able to provide good photos to show her emaciation and also provide photos of healthy-weight ball python hatchlings. So now when they get shipments in, they can identify if any are underweight to start, and take them to the vet as well as tell the supplier. And they'll be weighing the snakes to make sure they aren't losing.

So I saved one, and might have saved the next 50 or at least improved their lot.

My biggest question is, "why is corporate policy such that it harms animals". I see this again and again, disgruntled reptile lovers getting fed up and quitting because they aren't allowed to care for the animals properly. How is a company legally allowed to participate in what is mandated animal cruelty?

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Originally Posted by Lizardlicks

My biggest question is, "why is corporate policy such that is harms animals". I see this again and again, disgruntled reptile lovers getting fed up and quitting because they aren't allowed to care for the animals properly. How is a company legally allowed to participate in what is mandated animal cruelty?

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Question one its all about the money.
Question two it is not legal.

They get away with this stuff because people enable it. I really don't want to slam the OP because obviously the animal is really cared for now, but the OP is part of the problem.

First the chain buys the animal for next to nothing, maybe it already ahs issues, maybe not. Then, they don't take care of it well because it is cheaper not to. Then someone buys it fo some ungodly price. Then they get sold a bunch of crap they do not need.

In this case not only did the OP pay for the animal but they gave free advice to the store. If I ever see something this bad at a pet store the manager will regret that I ever walked in there.

I think much of it is that reptiles and fish are viewed as cheap commodities, there's actually not that much research into actually ideal care (sorry not sorry, but a bare tiny bin for a ball python is a travesty and yet it's commonly used and seen as perfectly okay), people are heavily invested in 'traditional' versions of snake keeping, and reptiles aren't seen as 'real' pets or capable of suffering.
Coporate standards provide them with a hide, repticarpet, a waterbowl, heat source, and only offering f/t prey. But the cages are very small, open-mesh-topped, use heat bulbs and temperature/humidity is monitored using those bloody stupid zoomed dial thermometers. While a corn snake can be 'okay' with this, something humidity-loving and shy like a ball python cannot.

As I have said *repeatedly*, they were just going to get another snake to replace it. So nothing would have changed, except yes, they wouldn't have my money. But there'd still be a dead snake, and no changes to husbandry, and thus future ill snakes. Instead, there is a live snake and actual changes. If I'd gone ranting and raving like I wanted to do they wouldn't have listened to me. Just as clients who are not taking proper care of their dogs and cats won't listen if I act accusatory... even if I am extremely accusatory. I just don't use the words I wanted to.

But all that said and done, I wasn't going to let this snake starve to death when I could fix it. I was having a bad week. I don't buy pet store animals but I'd had enough death and a few people making empathy purchases like this aren't going to even be noticed by the company compared to the numbers they sell to people ignorant of the housing travesty.

So I'll wear ashes and sack cloth for you. Yes, I'm a pet store enabling idiot, which I know, but *I* have a live snake.

I wish we weren't under siege from all sides. USARK has to put all it's work into just trying to keep it legal for us to keep them... but I bet mart/co/whatever would sit up and pay attention to a lawsuit. Wonder if that'd work if we could get the bird and fish people on board with us (rodent people might not want to talk to us lol).

This is my last comment on this one because I am coming off like a butt head to the OP and I sound remotely like a PETA activist which I am not. I hunt, have worked on a farm etc. My point is no animal needs to suffer needlessly. Even when I stomp a bug I make sure its not twitching before I move on.

I would have handled this situation differently than the OP because I am a different person. I know how to present myself in a manner that I will get my way. I could explain to the OP how to get their money back, but he/she is not interested and may take that money to rescue another one. As to lawsuits, I like lawyers less than box stores. If people in the know made a stink every time they saw an issue like this one the problem would take care of itself. If I saw this thread and it was about my company I would be pooping giant bricks. Now a days you can decimate a companies rep just with a few tweets. Don't need lawyers.