Breeding...rentals??

I have a female het pied ball python. I'm not sure yet if I am going to breed her in the future. But if I were, is renting out a male, say a pied, even a thing? Or would I need to buy my own for breeding purposes? Again I'm not sure if I even want to breed, as there are plenty of beautiful snakes that have already been born that need a good home. But I really would love a full pied female...

Here's a fantastic article on this exact subject:

• Breeder Loans and Other Terrible Partnering Ideas (http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2009/10...tnering-ideas/)

:gj:

Hi,

There are, indeed, things called "breeding loans" but it is a quite complicated arrangement to keep both sides happy.

You also need to consider quarantine quite seriously so it generally takes a long time either without your snake or keeping both partners. You also need to have arrangements in place to deal with sickness in either snake, who gets what number of snakes from any resulting clutch, who chooses which snake first from the hatchlings etc.

I'd have a search of some of the threads dealing with it to see what problems or experiences people have had.


**ETA** ninja'd egad! :ninja:

dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

**ETA** ninja'd egad! :ninja:

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:matrixfig I have a vast library of good bookmarks that I'm quick to reference whenever called upon. :sabduel:

Thank you guys for the info/advice. Myself personally would not be interested in any 9f the resulting clutch except 1 peid, preferably female. The rest could go to the owner of the male. I don't wanthink to start a real collection honestly. I'd more be in it for the experience and the above mentioned 1 baby. The quarantine issue however is something I didn't think about and is a very good point. When I first got my girl she had mites and it took a good 2 weeks and alot of bedding to get rid of them.

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Originally Posted by Sjm5161

Thank you guys for the info/advice. Myself personally would not be interested in any 9f the resulting clutch except 1 peid, preferably female. The rest could go to the owner of the male. I don't wanthink to start a real collection honestly. I'd more be in it for the experience and the above mentioned 1 baby. The quarantine issue however is something I didn't think about and is a very good point. When I first got my girl she had mites and it took a good 2 weeks and alot of bedding to get rid of them.

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Quite honestly, I'd just save your pennies and buy the Pied female you want. They're not all that expensive and it'll be a lot less of a hassle.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Quite honestly, I'd just save your pennies and buy the Pied female you want. They're not all that expensive and it'll be a lot less of a hassle.

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Fair enough. But I'd really love to have that experience of breeding. Even though I'm not interested in starting a business or anything, it is still incredibly interesting to me. But you are probably right....

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Originally Posted by Sjm5161

Fair enough. But I'd really love to have that experience of breeding. Even though I'm not interested in starting a business or anything, it is still incredibly interesting to me. But you are probably right....

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Chances are you wouldn't get much of that experience at all anyway. It's the female that typically gets sent to go visit the male, so your end of the experience would quite likely be sending your girl off and waiting not-so-patiently.

The real problem with breeding just for the experience (particularly when your snake is only het for pied) is that you could end up with snake that are hard to rehome. Whoever has the male pied is also likely to be uninterested in any of the het pied hatchlings (the males are even harder to place). Finding homes for hets is getting harder and harder particularly if you're not a known breeder (people are less likely to believe that your animal is het). If you're going to breed you need to have a plan for 'unwanted' hatchlings. You also have to be prepared for what needs to be done if hatchling comes out severely deformed.

I think it would be difficult to get one on loan since many people use one male to several females, so to borrow a breeder male you would have to find someone who isn't breeding that snake to other females. However, if you can find a local breeder you may be able to loan out your female and have her paired up for several weeks, maybe added to their rotation, then bring her home and hope for the best.

Another option would be to buy a male, breed him for a couple months, then sell him again. I've actually considered this myself, you could bring in a whole bunch of fancy males and turn around and sell them and get most or all of your money back. Then you'd have all the offspring and could hold back a male or two.

Another option would be to breed your het pied to a pied that has one or more genes, something like a pinstripe pied, or maybe a pastel spider pied, or even an albino pied. Then you would get more of a variety of babies that would all be pied or het for pied, or even double het pied / albino, you would get pinstripes, spiders, and pastels all het for pied. Easier to sell than straight normal het for pied. Or even better, you could pair up with a super pastel pied, then you'd get at least all pastels het for pied or pastel pieds.

What state are you in? How big is your female and how old, how much does she weigh?

When doing breeding loan the female goes to the male and not the opposite this allows the owner of the male to make sure that his male is used with one female and one female only, the owner will also likely use his male during the season.

Now the idea of breeding loan is that it will benefit both parties, loaning a Het Pied female to someone is really not that great of a benefit for anyone, anyone that has to the very least a male pied can afford a female het pied. With prices of $50 for an hatchling and $200/$300 for a proven breeder this would not be worth the risk or headache for anyone

Breeding loans are generally done with high end animals unless a friend really wants to do you a favor.

I've discussed this with a friend, but we've heard enough bad stories about these kinds of arrangements that we decided we'd only do it if both parties signed a NOTARIZED AGREEMENT. And even so, there's no guaranteeing things won't go sour... breeding is so random anyway, and it's hard to know what you're actually agreeing on in advance.

That said... I actually gifted a piebald male to a different friend as a PhD graduation present. (She earned it, TRUST ME.) We have a standing agreement that I can use him to stud future clutches. My friend isn't terribly interested in keeping any of the babies, so that helps.

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

What state are you in? How big is your female and how old, how much does she weigh?

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She is only a year old and weights about 600 grams. So this would be a while down the road yet. She would need to at least double in weight and age another year minimum. I live in Virginia.

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Originally Posted by piedlover79

The real problem with breeding just for the experience (particularly when your snake is only het for pied) is that you could end up with snake that are hard to rehome. Whoever has the male pied is also likely to be uninterested in any of the het pied hatchlings (the males are even harder to place). Finding homes for hets is getting harder and harder particularly if you're not a known breeder (people are less likely to believe that your animal is het). If you're going to breed you need to have a plan for 'unwanted' hatchlings. You also have to be prepared for what needs to be done if hatchling comes out severely deformed.

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Yeah that has been one of the major negative points for me. I don't want to have a clutch and then not have a person who would give them a good home. There person I would probably do a loan to would be a friend of mine who works/owns a reptile store. So I would probably be able to let him find a home. But still....


I do appreciate the advice tho guys.

The only time I've thought about this, and in a way that would've worked for us. Was when a buddy and I got our first ball pythons. We both wanted to breed them when they got old enough just for the experience. And neither one of us really cared who would get what. But then we learned that his snake couldn't breed as its a dessert spider, to me it looks like a gorgeous high white spider that has held her color well up to 12-1400g so far. So being a dessert she's just a pet. So I bought my own females to breed.

Kyle


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I recently did a breeding loan with a friend. We had both acquired our snakes from the same breeder and both were quarantined at the same time. I have a lesser female, they have a purple passion male. Once qt was up, I brought their male here and used him to stud my lesser on the agreement that any incurring issues would be my responsibility and that they will receive a BEL from the clutch ONLY if there is more than 1 bel hatch xx


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