Wrinkled Skin

Hello, about 2 weeks ago I got my first ball python. I think he's going through his first shed but I am unsure. Depending on how you look at his eyes they can be normal or a little discolored. I noticed the skin around his head was a little wrinkled and some of the scales on his lower body were loose a few days ago. But today when I took him out his whole body was wrinkled and I have no idea why. He always has access to fresh water, I try to keep the humidity between 50% - 60% and mist about 3 times a day but sometimes it drops down to 40% but I mist it right away. Is this normal? Does this mean he is going through shed or is he just dehydrated? If he is dehydrated how can I hydrate him? Here is a picture of him http://imgur.com/a/6KeJF

If you noticed loose scales, chances are what you're seeing is a stuck shed. They don't normally get loose scales and should shed entirely in one piece. It's tough to see exactly what's going on beyond REALLY wrinkled skin in that picture (which is certainly not normal - even when they are in shed).

Here are two threads to read through that should help you out:

1. The Shedding Process: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...edding-Process
2. Bad Shed? No Problem.: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...hed-No-problem

Looks like a failed shed. I had a similar problem with my baby during her first shed with me also. I also misted like yourself and it just doesn't seem to keep up with the rate of humidity loss at night so I couldn't keep her hydrated. I've got a PVC cage on the way so I never have to worry about it again. I was directed here to help with the stuck shed: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...hed-No-problem

I made the water about 86F, and I left her in there with a small washcloth for the full hour recommended. Once she came out the toughest part is getting a piece of shed started that you can gently work back. It may take more than one soak(only once per day) before you can get the shed removed, especially around the head. She still has a tiny bit on her head but her eyes are clear and her whole body is clear, and she's eating like a champ still with no more wrinkles, so I'm going to leave it alone for now to see if she gets rid of it on her own or during the next shed.

Edit: Eric, who helped me out, also beat me to the punch here!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric Alan

If you noticed loose scales, chances are what you're seeing is a stuck shed. They don't normally get loose scales and should shed entirely in one piece. It's tough to see exactly what's going on beyond REALLY wrinkled skin in that picture (which is certainly not normal - even when they are in shed).

Here are two threads to read through that should help you out:

1. The Shedding Process: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...edding-Process
2. Bad Shed? No Problem.: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...hed-No-problem

---

Thank you for responding. The scales that are loose are just lifting up a little bit and are do not look like the scales that are on the bad shed thread and are only on the bottom. Should I try to follow the steps on the bad shed thread even if I'm not sure he is going through a shed? Do you know what could be the cause of the wrinkles? This is my first time experiencing this so sorry if I sound like i have no idea what's going on at all.

EDIT: I also have tin foil on top of the screen top to help keep humidity in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Austinwwest

Thank you for responding. The scales that are loose are just lifting up a little bit and are do not look like the scales that are on the bad shed thread and are only on the bottom. Should I try to follow the steps on the bad shed thread even if I'm not sure he is going through a shed? Do you know what could be the cause of the wrinkles? This is my first time experiencing this so sorry if I sound like i have no idea what's going on at all.

---

I can't say with 100% certainty since I'm new to this as well, but this is exactly how my girl looked when her shed was stuck. She couldn't even get the shed started, much less get small pieces off until right before I helped her out. She got a few pieces off the night after I first soaked her, and I got the rest off with the second soak.

I was dumbstruck since I thought I was paying great attention to her humidity and did my best to mist frequently and keep her humidity over 60%. Alas, apparently I wasn't doing enough, because she still looked like a sad little mess almost exactly the way your pictures show.

Long story short, even with a foiled-top (I did the same) it seems glass enclosures are just awful for BP husbandry. There's no way to mist while you are asleep, and the humidity drops to the 40s by the time I wake up, tin-foil or not. I'm switching to a plastic enclosure from Constrictors NW and hoping that will give her a better home.
I soaked her for an hour a day for two days and was able to get the shed off, and she's back to her normal pudgy non-wrinkly self.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Austinwwest

Thank you for responding. The scales that are loose are just lifting up a little bit and are do not look like the scales that are on the bad shed thread and are only on the bottom. Should I try to follow the steps on the bad shed thread even if I'm not sure he is going through a shed? Do you know what could be the cause of the wrinkles? This is my first time experiencing this so sorry if I sound like i have no idea what's going on at all.

EDIT: I also have tin foil on top of the screen top to help keep humidity in.

---

Without a better picture or being there in person, it's hard to say exactly what's going on. If I were a betting man, I'd say it's a completely stuck shed - not just a bad shed like in the pics in the thread. Dry, stuck skin isn't flexible at all, which would cause the wrinkles. I would follow the steps in the bad shed thread and see how things progress.

Also, proper sheds aren't just the result of what you do in the window just before shedding - it's about proper care all of the time. With him only being in your care for the last two weeks, it would have been tough to course-correct enough to get him through a shed properly if he weren't in the right conditions before. Chances are this isn't a result of anything you did wrong, so all you need to do now is help him through it and make sure he's set up for success going forward. Good luck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by audioclass

I can't say with 100% certainty since I'm new to this as well, but this is exactly how my girl looked when her shed was stuck. She couldn't even get the shed started, much less get small pieces off until right before I helped her out. She got a few pieces off the night after I first soaked her, and I got the rest off with the second soak.

I was dumbstruck since I thought I was paying great attention to her humidity and did my best to mist frequently and keep her humidity over 60%. Alas, apparently I wasn't doing enough, because she still looked like a sad little mess almost exactly the way your pictures show.

Long story short, even with a foiled-top (I did the same) it seems glass enclosures are just awful for BP husbandry. There's no way to mist while you are asleep, and the humidity drops to the 40s by the time I wake up, tin-foil or not. I'm switching to a plastic enclosure from Constrictors NW and hoping that will give her a better home.
I soaked her for an hour a day for two days and was able to get the shed off, and she's back to her normal pudgy non-wrinkly self.

---

Would putting plexiglass on top work better to keep in humidity?

EDIT: Here are some better pictures I took, http://imgur.com/a/QukUV http://imgur.com/a/fCr0M http://imgur.com/a/7iTP5

I think (at least in my case) it has more to do with the heat sources we are forced to use in order to maintain heat in a glass enclosure. I run a CHE, for example, with only a tiny amount of space around the CHE un-foiled. Unfortunately, the CHE heats the air up (the element itself approaches 500F which super-heats the air around it regardless of the radiant-heating it does to the cage, which zaps all the humidity out and the heated air carries it up and away. from the cage. It was worse when I was on paper-towel substrate, because it barely held any moisture so the fluctuations were rapid. I switched to herptopia coconut substrate and I've had a much easier time managing the humidity. That being said, I still have to mist every few hours which means at night I'm dropping to the 40s and staying there until I wake up to mist again.

I suppose you could TRY plexi, but I don't see why it would perform any better than the foil-top aside from potentially holding in heat better. My CHE pretty much runs at 100% all the time in the cold new england weather here, and they are known to sap humidity. This is my main reason for switching to a plastic enclosure. I'll be going to a radiant heat panel, which will stem the humidity loss due to heating element, and the material will insulate better, which means less RUNNING the heat element, which will also stem the humidity loss. There are plenty of stories of people making glass enclosures work, which is why I thought "What the heck!" and tried it myself, but It's just been an annoyance since day one, so I can't wait to switch.

Edit: Yup, looks just like my Luna did. Try the soak.

Just realized I posted the same image twice, heres another http://imgur.com/a/J5iju

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Austinwwest

EDIT: Here are some better pictures I took, http://imgur.com/a/QukUV http://imgur.com/a/fCr0M http://imgur.com/a/7iTP5

---

1,000,000% stuck shed. MUCH better pics! :gj:

Oh yeah that is most definitely a stuck shed.

Update I soaked him in room temperature water for 55 minutes then took him out. When I took him out he wasn't nearly as wrinkled as he was before. The only thing is though he didn't have his skin come off after soaking him. I took a paper towel and ran him through it but nothing came off. Is he going to shed on his own now or do I need to soak him more (After 24 hours)?

I'm pleased you gave him a soak which will help to loosen the shed skin and also rehydrated the snake if he's in the least bit dehydrated - sometimes explains the wrinkles even if they're not shedding . After a soak they always look plumper and somehow healthier and many eat the next day or so which suggests that the soak helps them feel better in themselves . There are many who are happy to heap scorn on anybody who soaks their snake but it's seen to be far more accepted over here in the UK .


Anyways , enough of the waffling !!

The little known magic part of the soaking procedure is when you take him out of the soaking tub have a wet or very damp , rough textured towel handy and let him slither inside the towel in your hands , when his head pops out , cover it with the towel and encourage him to keep on slithering around inside the towel whilst applying VERY gentle pressure with your hands ... This normally results in all the skin and even the stubborn bits getting caught on the towel ....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zincubus

I'm pleased you gave him a soak which will help to loosen the shed skin and also rehydrated the snake if he's in the least bit dehydrated - sometimes explains the wrinkles even if they're not shedding . After a soak they always look plumper and somehow healthier and many eat the next day or so which suggests that the soak helps them feel better in themselves . There are many who are happy to heap scorn on anybody who soaks their snake but it's seen to be far more accepted over here in the UK .


Anyways , enough of the waffling !!

The little known magic part of the soaking procedure is when you take him out of the soaking tub have a wet or very damp , rough textured towel handy and let him slither inside the towel in your hands , when his head pops out , cover it with the towel and encourage him to keep on slithering around inside the towel whilst applying VERY gentle pressure with your hands ... This normally results in all the skin and even the stubborn bits getting caught on the towel ....

---

Should I use a paper towel or wash cloth? I used a paper towel but it didn't seem to do very much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Austinwwest

Should I use a paper towel or wash cloth? I used a paper towel but it didn't seem to do very much.

---

Sorry a paper towel won't help at all as it will simply dry the snake off .

Has to be a damp / wet rough textured cloth or towel . The rough texture is crucial .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Austinwwest

Should I use a paper towel or wash cloth? I used a paper towel but it didn't seem to do very much.

---

Either should work as long as you're applying the right amount of pressure (I just use my fingers). Too hard will rub actual scales off and too little won't do anything. I wouldn't try more than once/day though, so as not to stress them out too much with the "rough" handling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Either should work as long as you're applying the right amount of pressure (I just use my fingers). Too hard will rub actual scales off and too little won't do anything. I wouldn't try more than once/day though, so as not to stress them out too much with the "rough" handling.

---

Should I soak him again tomorrow? Thank you for helping me with this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Austinwwest

Should I soak him again tomorrow? Thank you for helping me with this.

---

That sounds like a great plan. Stuck shed, while it looks miserable, isn't too horrible as long as you're on top of it. It's when it gets left on, piles up, and starts to restrict the snake's movement/growth that it gets serious. Go for it again tomorrow and let us know how awesome he looks once you've finished up. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zincubus

There are many who are happy to heap scorn on anybody who soaks their snake but it's seen to be far more accepted over here in the UK .

---

Awe come on Zinc it always raining there anyway so everything is soaking regardless. LOL. Kidding.

I am guilty as charged on the soaking deal, but in this case I agree with Zinc. This snake should soak. I have only ever seen that bad a shed on an animal for sale at Petsmart. In this case I believe the benefits to the animal outweigh the risks. There are many reasons why soaking is not recommended so to the OP avoid the potential problems by using water no hotter than 88 and no colder than 75. Make sure the animal can touch the bottom. Do not leave the animal unsupervised at any time. And like Zinc said, a textured cloth is a must. You do not want to do this often. Ball pythons are not water snakes. They do not swim well and they do not enjoy it in any shape way or form.

Guys - this is not a soaking thread - it's a stuck shed thread. It's silly to equate the two and there's no reason to pile on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Guys - this is not a soaking thread - it's a stuck shed thread. It's silly to equate the two and there's no reason to pile on.

---

?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zincubus

?

---

My point is that there is a huge difference between the kind of soaking that tends to raise emotions around here (and in other communities) and the solution being offered in the post I shared originally. It's like warning someone of the dangers of swimming in the ocean when they're only going to be taking a bath.

Mostly, I'm trying to keep this thread on track rather than having it spiral into another one of the silly debates which we all love so much. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric Alan

My point is that there is a huge difference between the kind of soaking that tends to raise emotions around here (and in other communities) and the solution being offered in the post I shared originally. It's like warning someone of the dangers of swimming in the ocean when they're only going to be taking a bath.

Mostly, I'm trying to keep this thread on track rather than having it spiral into another one of the silly debates which we all love so much. :)

---

My apologies. Slow work day. Slow board day. Saw a chance for a lame joke and went overboard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

My apologies. Slow work day. Slow board day. Saw a chance for a lame joke and went overboard.

---

I missed what you said anyways , clearly .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric Alan

My point is that there is a huge difference between the kind of soaking that tends to raise emotions around here (and in other communities) and the solution being offered in the post I shared originally. It's like warning someone of the dangers of swimming in the ocean when they're only going to be taking a bath.

Mostly, I'm trying to keep this thread on track rather than having it spiral into another one of the silly debates which we all love so much. :)

---

Ah , I see .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric Alan

That sounds like a great plan. Stuck shed, while it looks miserable, isn't too horrible as long as you're on top of it. It's when it gets left on, piles up, and starts to restrict the snake's movement/growth that it gets serious. Go for it again tomorrow and let us know how awesome he looks once you've finished up. :)

---

So I soaked him today again for 55 minutes then took him out and ran him through a wash cloth with a little bit of pressure. I did this for about 10 minutes. I stopped because it didn't look like it was doing anything. Before I soaked him he had has scales that are a little lifted up but after I soak him he looks normal again. I am keeping the humidity at 60% - 70%. He also doesn't show the signs of going through shed (milky eyes). Although before I did soak him he did defecate and then started rubbing his nose against the branch and wall in the enclosure. I'm stuck on what to do because running him through the wash cloth didn't seem to do anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Austinwwest

So I soaked him today again for 55 minutes then took him out and ran him through a wash cloth with a little bit of pressure. I did this for about 10 minutes. I stopped because it didn't look like it was doing anything. Before I soaked him he had has scales that are a little lifted up but after I soak him he looks normal again. I am keeping the humidity at 60% - 70%. He also doesn't show the signs of going through shed (milky eyes). Although before I did soak him he did defecate and then started rubbing his nose against the branch and wall in the enclosure. I'm stuck on what to do because running him through the wash cloth didn't seem to do anything.

---

The textured cloth trick only works if the skin is ready to come off or if there has been a bad / stubborn shed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zincubus

The textured cloth trick only works if the skin is ready to come off or if there has been a bad / stubborn shed

---

So then what could explain him being so wrinkly (As shown in the pictures)?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Austinwwest

So then what could explain him being so wrinkly (As shown in the pictures)?

---

Well I've admitted many times I'm far from being any kind of expert but .... The two things that wrinkles suggest to me I've already covered tbh

One is when the actual shedding is imminent and the other thing I always associate with wrinkles is dehydration .

As I mentioned above the rough textured towel is great for helping the snake to get the skin off when it's loose or for old skin and even removal of retained eye- caps .

They just mentioned that it was rubbing it's face and head which is usually an indication that the skin is ready to come off .

It could be off tomorrow with a bit of luck .


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zincubus

Well I've admitted many times I'm far from being any kind of expert but .... The two things that wrinkles suggest to me I've already covered tbh

One is when the actual shedding is imminent and the other thing I always associate with wrinkles is dehydration .

As I mentioned above the rough textured towel is great for helping the snake to get the skin off when it's loose or for old skin and even removal of retained eye- caps .

They just mentioned that it was rubbing it's face and head which is usually an indication that the skin is ready to come off .

It could be off tomorrow with a bit of luck .


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

---

So today I noticed that he has some scales on his head that are peeling off and he is rubbing his nose on somethings for a minute and then going back into his hide. Should I wait and see if he gets it off himself or soak him again today and try to get it off myself?

I'd wait until tomorrow myself , when I occasionally notice that the loose ski and head rubbing they usually shed the skin that night . If it doesn't you can reassess the situation tomorrow .

I'd give the viv / rub a good spray now as well .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zincubus

I'd wait until tomorrow myself , when I occasionally notice that the loose ski and head rubbing they usually shed the skin that night . If it doesn't you can reassess the situation tomorrow .

I'd give the viv / rub a good spray now as well .

---

Ok, so I soaked him today and removed the shed myself today. I got it all of his body except for the bottom of his head and neck area (a little bit behind his head on his underside). How do you recommend I get that part off?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Austinwwest

Ok, so I soaked him today and removed the shed myself today. I got it all of his body except for the bottom of his head and neck area (a little bit behind his head on his underside). How do you recommend I get that part off?

---

YAY!!! For that little bit, I'd see if he can do it on his own or just wait until the next shed cycle. There's a very good chance it'll come off with the rest of the shed now that he's in a good home with you. Congrats! :gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric Alan

YAY!!! For that little bit, I'd see if he can do it on his own or just wait until the next shed cycle. There's a very good chance it'll come off with the rest of the shed now that he's in a good home with you. Congrats! :gj:

---

Thanks, I put plexi glass over the screen top and it seems to be holding in humidity a little bit better so hopefully he will shed in one piece next time. Do you think he will eat even though he has the shed on the underside of his head and a little on his neck?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Austinwwest

Do you think he will eat even though he has the shed on the underside of his head and a little on his neck?

---

He should eat like a champ. If he doesn't, it won't have anything to do with that little piece of leftover shed.